Ylanne:

So did you find this or write it? The language seems old fashioned. It seems like the author was trying for humility and nobility at the same time. Which makes it what? Not honest exactly. Poetic perhaps. Even dramatic. Like the author was trying to show off his or her facility with words. And I’d have to say, he or she had considerable facility.

Actually some of the sentiments are old fashioned too. There’s the me-worm thing. Excessive humility. Compared to God I am so insignificant. Like a worm compared to a human.

That’s not healthy. Humility has more justice. False humility says that I am a worm. For mental health, we need a good self image. We need self esteem. I am not nothing. God don’t make junk. God actually gave me considerable perfection. I have gifts. I dishonor God to deny it. I wouldn’t say I’m perfect. But I’m pretty good. Especially if I do godly work. Especially if I discern God’s will for me and attune to it, align with it, and carry it out. Especially if I participate in creation and redemption.

Try this for an honest prayer:

Our Father. And mother. God of love. God of creation and redemption. Your are intimate yet remote. You are my parent yet heavenly. You are inside me and I am inside you. Hallowed be thy name. You are holy. You are good beyond imagining. Good as only God can be good. Source of light and life. Source of grace and truth and peace and love and faith and hope and joy and justice. Let your kingdom come, let your will be done on this tiny planet as it is throughout the universe. And let me be among those who do your will. Let me discern your will for me. I will attune to it, align with it, carry it out as best I am able. Let me participate in your work of creation and redemption. Let me see things as you see them, do things as you do them. Let me be your presence here on earth, your eyes and ears and voice, your arms and legs and penis. Let me be a lover. A point of light.

Give us this day our daily bread and all else besides we need, especially a good self image and a sense of purpose. Forgive me all my sins, all the wrong I have done and all the harm. All the times I interfered with the good that other people do. All the evil that has come out of me, the sarcasm, the put downs, the unpleasantness. All the times I could have loved better. As we forgive those who wrong us, who harm us, who annoy us, who block us, who could have loved us better. And lead us not into those situations where no one channels your love, no one shines your light and we are tempted not to channel your love and not to shine your light too. From these and all other evils deliver us. In Jesus name we pray. Amen

Cheers

Jim

Oh James:

Thank you for reading and commenting.

I don’t see what exactly you are commenting on. You don’t seem to be commenting on anything I said. Rather you have given a statement of your beliefs. Which may very well work for you.
My wish for you is salvation, a life of grace and peace, healing of all brokenness, comfort and courage in adversity, and deliverance from all evil.

Cheers

Jim

Dear Sarah who wants points:

You made a good start. Mysteries about God abound. The one that plagues me is that we want our God to be creator. Want to believe that God created all that is. We have felt this way for a long time. And recently,of course, we get the creationism debacle. It's a small side stream of the real mystery of God the creator.

The belief is old. It started back when the whole world was a mystery and we made up stories whenever we didn't understand. So we had Gods to explain thunder and lightening. But then science caught up and we now understand charge separation in the clouds and electric discharge between them and between them and the ground and the loud sound it makes and how it rolls toward us as thunder.

Now science has caught up with creation too. We are getting a better picture of just how big it is. And by inference, how big God is. Last April, we came into contact with the most remote object ever detected. 13.2 billion light years away. It was a gamma ray burst from a dying star that caused such an explosion, liberated unimaginable amounts of energy (a million times all the energy that our sun will give off in its entire life time) This amount of energy emitted in an instant. And it was so bright that, for about 20 seconds, the unaided human eye could see it in the sky. That explosion occurred and the light from it started traveling our way before there was a sun and before there was an earth. The sun and earth are less than 6 billion years old.

Yeah. Creation is big. Blank parts of the sky are actually filled with remote galaxies. Each with billions of stars. Or at least millions. Some of them like our star, sol, the sun. Some of these stars with planets like our earth. Some of these planets with people. God is pretty big. You'd have to imagine that God is loving those people too. Bringing them along to salvation. Intending happiness for them. Just like for us.

And this God we also want to believe listens to our prayers. Has time for us. Is involved in our history and our personal story, our loves and problems.

The mystery is pretty deep. We almost need a new religion to cope with it.

Cheers.

Jim

Paul:

I like the quote. It is funny. Especially because it was said in full seriousness. No irony intended. And there are people like that. As illustrated by some of your Christian correspondents. From whom I would like to dissociate myself.

I suppose for them there is a danger to being open minded. It gets you on the slippery slope. You start sliding and you don't know where you will end up. It can be scary. All the old verities up for grabs. Hey, you have to think for yourself. Not coast on what others, read preachers/ministers/priests/popes, said.

I have been enjoying the ride on the slippery slope. And I find I cannot abandon what is good in Christianity. But there is a lot that needs abandoning.

Cheers.

Jim

Thomas:

You have wonderful insight. So true it can be carried further. Into stories of specific congregations breaking up. Giving scandal. That those that preach love don’t love themselves.

I think we move through continuous change. I need a word here. “Church” doesn’t work. It conveys a concrete building with a pastor and advertized services. But rather church with a small c. Church as us. As whenever two or three are gathered ... A little group of believers who mutually reinforce each other. Who love and affirm each other. A little instance of the kingdom of God. This is part of my experience. I felt a pull into religion, like a fly to a bright light. So warm and welcoming. So full of love and insight. It seemed like those people had the answer to fundamental questions. It seemed like a permanent home. But then just as quickly it vanished. We each went our separate ways.

Here’s a picture. In the grand scheme of things, those instances are like raindrops on a pond. You see the splash, God breaking through, you see the waves of goodness and good feeling rippling out and then just as quickly it’s gone. But then another splash comes. And each drop accumulates in the pond.

This seems to be the nature of things. Seems to be how God works. As if God realizes that each instance is imperfect. And though it is wonderful, the members could become self congratulatory and complacent if it were allowed to go on for long. Better to dissolve and start over.

If God works this way, it gives each of us responsibility. Each of us is capable of channeling God into this world. Of creating those temporary instances of the kingdom. It is a matter of bestowing smiles, of loving and affirming each other, of committing senseless acts of kindness and letting goodness ripple out and expecting it to get reflected back. Of enjoying this resonance for as long as it happens. And then moving on, believing strongly, oven knowing, that another instance is about to start and that we each have a role.

It could be.

Cheers.

Jim

John:

What a profound question. My parsers are firing. You get the dump.

First I could say that the question makes no sense. God is unknowable. What we want God to be contains internal inconsistencies. We want God to be creator and at the same time someone some person just beyond perception who has time to pay attention to us. To be our friend. To listen. That didn’t used to be so difficult, but just recently we have discovered how big is creation and how complex. If you train your telescope on even a bare patch of sky and hold it there long enough, capturing photons and recording them, you find that the sky if filled with galaxies. Creation is huge and on going. If we think of God out there forming planets out of stardust, igniting off new stars, and pushing evolution on those distant planets, not to mention being God to people on those distant planets, it is hard to imagine that God is also a person, just beyond perception, who listens and is creating me.

That on a big scale. On a small scale, I mean on the scale of interacting with human beings on this planet, which is how we normally think of God, the problem is just as bad. God prefers to remain hidden. God cannot be detected with the senses. At least not the normal five. We get to God by inference. Through the mind. Through trying to make sense of things. Through beauty or through love.
So there is my parsing of the question. Now for my answer.

Actually, since I have had time to think of it, and since I already done some parsing and it’s hard to get those darn parsers turned off, I would say that the process of getting to know God is ongoing. I am still working on it. And maybe God is too. It is a work in process. A work in progress.

But the answer. In the spirit of how the question was ask. I do remember one occasion when I felt God’s presence. It was late in the evening. I was on retreat with a couple dozen other men. We were scattered around the altar in a darkened chapel. We were there to pray. And one by one, each of us, or many of us, talked to God out loud. Interspersed with silence. It was incredibly moving. God was palpable.

But was that the first time? Was that my conversion? What about the influence of my parents and my teachers. What about the Bible stories and the religion that I learned as a youth? The priests and nuns. What about the witness of all those people going to church every Sunday. I grew up in a religious culture. And one filled with love and affirmation.

And was that the last or best time? Haven’t I experienced more peace and love and beauty since then? Why yes I have. Yes I do. In some kind of way, I am surrounded by love and beauty. All I need is the eyes to see it. The special 6th or 7th sense to detect it.

Mostly, God resides in us. In people. And if you look, you will see a lot of good there. A lot of beauty. I know the tradition of Christians is to declare ourselves sinners. And to declare others sinners too. To think of sin as the explanation of why things are going to pot. Wars and rumors of wars. Plagues. But hey, there is good too. There is loveliness. There is young people falling in love and begetting children and raising them as best they can. It’s going on all around us. God is here present in us. We each have divinity. Which is why a church experience works. We bring God through the door when we enter. And all the separate dollops of divinity add up. It’s symbiotic. God becomes palpable. It’s a wonder singing and dancing don’t break out spontaneously.

And that’s it. The whole dump. Which is probably more than you and others care to read. But there it is.

Thanks for asking that wonderful question.

Cheers.

Jim

Miles:

You have pretty good insight.

Have you ever wondered to what extent Christianity focuses on sin? I suppose sin explains things. Like why the world is in such a state. As if Christianity has a duty to explain everything. And sin is a part of each Christian’s sense of himself or herself. I am a sinner. But Jesus fixed that. Except he or she cannot say the next logical statement: Now I am no longer a sinner. It’s like a recovering alcoholic. They have to keep saying I am an alcoholic. That’s why I can’t drink. So Christians keep saying I am a sinner. That’s why I can’t sin. That’s why I have to keep focused on Christ. There hanging on a cross for my sins. In some sense, Christianity is all about sin. In the same way that alcoholics anonymous is all about alcohol.

The metaphor breaks down of course since the world contains many who drink responsibly. They may admire recovering alcoholics. But maybe they feel sorry for them since drinking can be part of a satisfying life. Hey Jesus turned water into wine at the behest of his mother at a wedding celebration.

I have a problem with sin. At least sin in the Christian lexicon. Where do you stand? What is your theory of sin? Here’s my take on the Christian view of sin. Tell me where I am wrong. Sin is something that offends God. God keeps track of our sins. Or maybe delegates this record keeping to angels. Someone up there keeps track. Knows when I am sinning. Knows my inmost thoughts. Because sometimes inmost thoughts are sins. And when I die, there will be a reckoning. I will come up before the judge. Before God. And God will decide, based on my record, whether I go to heaven or hell. Am I right so far? Or how would you put it differently?

The problem I have I know to be shared by at least one certified theologian. That Christianity is not about sin. It’s not about morality. It’s not about shaping up behavior. Rather it’s about love. If our motivation is love, we can forget about sin. Sin doesn’t enter in. Love is beyond sin.

The trouble is that both sin and love are large umbrella terms that mean a lot of things and the exact nature of each is hard to pin down. You could easily imagine trying to characterize each human action in each human situation as having some degree of sin and some degree of love. You could imagine scholars sitting around debating interesting cases. Hey, it goes on.

I’m thinking God doesn’t care. God has solved the problem a long time ago, putting consequences with our actions. We are the judge. We may decide to do something fully cognizant of the consequences. In fact we ought to. And most times we do. Sometimes unintended consequences or unexpected consequences dog us. But that’s negative. There are positive consequences too. We may intend for people to be happy. That is what God does. At least that is what I believe. And when our intentions when we act are to make people happy, hey, we are imitating God.

In my mind, Christianity (and the other religions too) are all about imitating God. They are all about happiness. They contain the wisdom of ages, what men and women have learned about what brings happiness. And, negatively, what destroys happiness. That’s the sin part.

But we can go beyond legacy wisdom. We are still experiencing God. We are alive. We know a thing or two about happiness, both what causes it and what diminishes it. We can chart our own course. Mostly it will align with Christianity. And actually, we can judge Christianity. We can say when it fails. When its adherents get something wrong. The emphasis on sin, on feeling one’s sins, on feeling bad because of sin seems wrong. The right emphasis is on happiness, on finding out what brings it, what actions tend to bring happiness. And focus on those.

What think you?

Cheers

Jim

Miles:

First you stated that

“Christians should have confidence that they alone possess truth about God”.

Then

“I don't think that Christians are alone in possessing truth, knowing about God. But I think they are alone in 'knowing' God, in knowing his will in particular situations”

and now

“Non-Christians can connect with God”

If I were an optimist I’d say you are making progress. But alas, I think you are stuck. You also said:

“if Christianity is true at all, everything else is nowhere”

You paint with a broad brush.

I have a tale of two Christians. I knew them both. I’ll use their real names because you have no way of knowing them. Dave was the first. Or maybe the second. I met him second because of the first. The first was Carl. Carl was genuine. He was from Maine. Wore a potato lapel pin. What? Maine potatoes? Took note of the ad with a pretty girl “looking for a good vacation? Try Me.” (ME being the abbreviation for Maine.)

I met Carl through a notice he pinned up at our agency. Something about a Christian Growth Fellowship that he established, that met in the basement of a nearby church at lunch every day of the week. You’d see Carl around the block, sometimes talking with street people (homeless, teens, others) and always carrying a beat up New Testament. He also had a prison ministry. His wife told me this. When she went solo to a neighborhood party and they ask where’s Carl, she’d say, Oh Carl’s in Jail.

Carl was absolutely wonderful. More a listener than a speaker. He didn’t push Christianity. Sort of like what St. Francis said: “Preach Christianity always. If necessary use words”. Because Carl didn’t need words. You could see his faith in what he did. And when he did speak, he was deferential. He would tell you what he believed, but it was Ok if you believed something else. One more thing: I remember coming down to the basement when Carl was the only other person there. And I got the sense that I interrupted him. Interrupted his praying. But no, he’d say, an angelic smile spreading on his face. You are not interrupting. Come on in.

Usually there were several people in that basement room. And we had a loose agenda. A different thing for every day of the week. One day was bible study, for instance. One day was just fellowship. I forget the others. The folks that gathered, came under Carl’s influence. There were Catholics and Protestants. From many different denominations. One person was into yoga. We came from many different points in our pilgrimage. Some old, some not.

Dave, the other guy, was one of us. Dave was young. Handsome. Energetic. Cheerful. And orthodox. His life revolved around church. He was also musical. Played trumpet. Sang. I knew him also in a singing group that the agency had. And once he performed a rap that he had written all about Jesus. The sort of thing that I imagined he would perform in a church or Sunday school. But in the context of the agency, out of place. Dave didn’t listen so well. Dave had all the answers. Dave bought into a closed system of thought. Invulnerable. Impenetrable. Fossils which might be evidence for evolution or for the age of the earth he might well interpret as items God created and put in the ground to test our faith in the Bible.

Carl caught spinal meningitis, and sat in a wheel chair for a couple of years, slobbering on himself before he died, leaving his wife to finish raising 2-3 kids. I went to his funeral. We all went. We all were concerned how his wife would fare.

Dave’s wife left him. I can’t recall whether they had any kids. But Dave was heartbroken. Couldn’t understand what God was up to. Knew that the plan was monogamy. Believed that his wife would come back. But she didn’t, no matter how hard Dave believed. Dave was cast adrift. I think he performed his Christian rap for us after this happened. So I think it didn’t affect his faith.

And that’s where the story ends. I am retired now. I knew these guys a long time ago, during my bureaucratic career. I reflect on them now because they reflect two dramatically different styles of Christianity. My take is that Carl was a saint. And that for some reason, saints don’t live long. What was God thinking? Dave was no saint. Dave was all alone. He was confined by his faith. And it didn’t serve him well. It built up walls around him. Made him unattractive for such a handsome guy. Looks deceive. Carl was not handsome. He had thin hair. Wore glasses. Wore plain clothes. Not a natty dresser. But he was saintly. He was attractive. He was good. Dave was cheerful, effusive, lively. Good looking. Fit. Musical. But what? Unattractive. In a different category. On a different path. Ultimately sad. Where is the Joy? Aren’t Christians supposed to be happy? With Carl there was always joy. His wife had it too. Probably still has it. I expect all his kids are grown now. We have drifted apart. Or actually, I never knew them. I only knew Carl.

Maybe a Christian is a person you want in your life. A person you don’t want to see die. A person you will always remember. A person who never loses joy. In spite of purple weather. Or maybe that’s a godly person of whatever stripe. Whatever faith.

Why am I telling you this Miles? Dunno. For some reason it came to mind after I read your latest. While I was wondering how to reply. While I was thinking of you. The pattern of your thinking. So. There it is.

Cheers.

Jim

Ana L

You are a delightful young lady (with at least one baby child) and I thank you for taking so much time commenting on what I have written and answering back. I think my own mother was like you. She was a very devout lady. We were Catholics. In some sense we still are. Or rather I still am. Mom is dead. I still go to mass on Sunday. Hey, I’m even a cantor. But our parish has so many good voices, I get infrequent assignments.

Mom and I used to go to daily mass when I was quite young. The church was a block away from our house and we would walk through the dark and cold to attend early mass before school. If I remember correctly, they had three masses each morning, one at 6:00, 7:00 and 8:00. The eight o’clock mass was attended by all the school children. I sang in the choir.

Mom believed everything the church taught. And I suppose I did too. I had neither the knowledge nor the inclination to question anything. And I believe mom was a saint. She was wonderful. And her religion was a big and formative part of her life. She was sexually repressed. Her mother told her to get a priest to explain to her about menstruation. It was a different age. And in spite of whatever sexual repression she had, she bore and raised 5 children, four boys ( I was second in line) and finally one girl, who turned out to be a prodigal daughter, but now, late in life, has become an ubercatholic. Way, way too Catholic. Still, she is a good and committed Christian, focusing much of her discretionary time and money on helping the homeless.

Like mom, you seem to have found your way. You seem to be in a good place. You needn’t get upset by anything I say. I am reluctant to even state where we part company in our beliefs. I have parted company with my youthful religion. My beliefs keep evolving. I yearn to discuss them. I yearn to ask pointed questions. To identify inconsistencies. To engage in verbal combat with thoughtful people. But you have something beautiful going on. I say, keep going.

A blessing on your house.

Jim

PS. Well, maybe one quibble. (I can’t help myself.) You said

“I believe that yes many different religions know much about the bible, but they also pick and choose what they want to believe. That is the difference between a true Believer. Many people call themselves a Christian-but it terms of what a bible believing Christian really is- they are not. “

It’s the “pick and choose” part I want to pick on. It implies that true believers do not pick and choose. But rather accept everything in the Bible. Because the bible has inconsistencies. It has been used, for instance, to justify slavery. In the OT, God commanded the Hebrews to kill every living thing in a village: the women and children and all the animals. (Saul apparently did not carry out this command and thereby incurred the wrath of God. He lost his life on the battle field.) Has God changed? Do we want to believe in a god like that? And what about the sayings of Jesus. If your eye scandalize you pluck it out. Go and sell everything you own and come follow me. Don’t even true believer Christians pick and choose?

I think we have permission to say when something does not make sense. I think that we need to understand the Bible as it was written and as it was intended. Actually, I think the Bible is helpful and I read parts every day and pick a passage to start me pondering something about the nature of God or of the right relationship with God. My thoughts take me wide of orthodox Christian belief, but maybe Christianity needs to evolve into a new phase if it hopes to survive. Christianity has a lot of truth. We don’t want to throw the baby out with the bath water.

God gave us brains and curiosity. I do not think we please God by taking the easy way out, by accepting what others believe blindly and shut down all further inquiry. OK it gets scary. It is scary to venture away from security. To ask too many “What if’s”. But hey, you can connect with God. That makes it less scary. Who knows, maybe you will become the next prophet. God is still there, still reaching out to human beings, still waiting and watching. Maybe you have the gift of connection. Try meditation. Try sitting and listening hard. Try to detect a whisper. Ignore the earthquake and the tornado. God is in the whisper. This is Biblical wisdom. Jesus went off to the desert by himself frequently. As did many in the OT. Who was it in the cave waiting for the whisper? Jeremiah?

We all have to figure it out for ourselves. Legacy religions can help. But I believe closed systems of thought (which can be found in most religions) that have all the answers are not helpful.

We build on what we have. Many people, and maybe I am one, have sprung themselves from closed systems. Still, many holy people, my mother among them, lived their entire lives inside and made something beautiful of their lives. You don’t need to spring yourself. At least not now. God may want you sprung. But that’s up to you and God.

Cheers

j

Miles:

So Christians "are alone in 'knowing' God, in knowing his will in particular situations." Non Christians can’t connect with God, can’t know his will in particular situations. And this is not smug belief that they are right and everybody else not. And it’s not just non-Christians. Some stripes of Christians, e.g., Catholics, don’t know.

I suspect that when you look around in your own denomination, in your own community, you can spot people you suspect also don’t know. There are damn few of us who have figured out how to connect with God. Just me and thee. And just recently ...

You’ve read or at least heard of Poe’s short story “A Cask of Amontillado”. Grisly story about payback for insult. The offender was bricked up in a cellar. Taken to the cellar on the pretext of searching for a cask of Amontillado. Readers squirm imagining themselves enduring the slow death of suffocation or thirst of a body bricked off from the world. Screams for help being ineffectual, ending on the bricks that surround them.

For some reason this came to mind in reflecting on your dismissal of Jews and Moslems and Catholics. One brick for Judaism. One for Islam. One for Catholicism. Inside is only purity of belief. Inside is the only place on earth where true belief, where truth exists. It is a tinier and tinier circle. Oh yes, your arms are open wide to welcome everyone. Come on in. The only requirement is that you believe as I do. That you admit that there is no other path to God. No other salvation.

You are certainly orthodox in your beliefs. You can cite a long tradition. Christians have long believed that they were right and everyone else was wrong. But so do the other denominations. We all circle our wagons. And it’s all orthodox. Fully certified.

Alas, I must refuse your welcome. I believe I connect with God. God of love and goodness and creation and redemption. God of evolution. (Oops, sorry. I bet you take umbrage at that. And that you have a standard response. But, hey. What if evolution is just how God creates? It’s a neat way out of doctrinal difficulties.) God who created the laws of physics and chemistry. God who operates within those laws. God who pushes creation forward. God who promotes love and affirmation and harmony. I believe that creation is ongoing. That the deposit of faith did not end with Jesus or shortly thereafter. God is still at work in this world. And in other worlds. And there are likely many. The universe is larger than we previously imagined. Much larger than the scripture writers imagined. And God is much larger than we imagined too. We, it turns out, are insignificant in the grand scheme of things.

Where will Christianity go? Will Christians persist in believing that God favored one tiny tribe on one tiny planet at one point in time. That the whole plan of salvation turns on one man. That if salvation is to come to the universe, Christians will have to make it happen. We will need to send missionaries on our space missions, as earlier generations sent missionaries on their wooden sailing ships of conquest and exploration. As we thinking animals develop further technology and further science, and eventually venture forth from this planet and find other self conscious creatures, we will have to take the gospel with us. Let me tell you about a man from our planet. God, for some reason, is bringing salvation to the universe through this one man.

Well, we have a little work to do on this planet first. Or, when the technology comes, competing messages may go forth. What if the Chinese get the technology first? What missionary will they send? You don’t want to imagine Islamic and Christian and Jewish and Hindu missionaries competing in proselytizing the universe. First we will need to Christianize this planet. Get everyone bricked in. Get us all marching along, believing the same thing.

The track record hasn’t been all that good so far. It would seem that instead of getting closer, we have been fracturing. I have heard sad stories of congregations splitting over disagreements. Many times it is a disagreement over the pastor. Sometimes it is over doctrine.

But guys like you, who have undiluted truth, have a lot of work to do. You’d think the truth would shine like a beacon and that people would seek it out. Would come to it without much persuasion. But it seems to be a hard sell. Fewer and fewer people getting inside in spite of the open arms, the warm invitation.

I sometimes think that the next task before humanity is to overcome the “us vs them” way of looking at the world. The tribal or national sense of identity. It is deep in our instinct. And it has taken us pretty far. It has been essential to survival. We live in gangs. It’s us vs the world. It’s a jungle out there. Actually, this is very close to the message of Jesus. Your mother and brothers are outside. Who are my mother and brothers? Those who believe the gospel. Even if they are not family. Even if they are foreigners. The Levite and the priest and the Samaritan all saw the man. Which of these was neighbor to the victim? Or, in the words of Miles Rowley, which one knew the will of God in this particular situation? The foreigner? The one with whom we don’t share common doctrine.

No it’s not us vs them. They are us. Those illegal emigrants. Those Russians. Those flaming homosexuals. Those Iraqis and Iranians. Those terrorists. They are children of some mother. They are victims of the same war. They are us. We are all the same in most respects. And they have truth. And we have truth. We both face difficult problems. They have gifted people and we have gifted people. They have mentally challenged people and so do we. They get to decide how to approach their problems, and we get to decide how to approach ours. They get to decide who they want to be. They get to decide which version of God they want to believe, and so do we.

Here’s what I believe. The progress depends on reaching out. That all men are brothers. That the only chance we have of going forward is if we combine our truths and together search for what is missing. Together work on our common problems. Affirm the values of love and generosity and empathy. And that we need to care for each other.

And when the space exploration resumes, the missionary we send out to the other creatures will have a lot more truth than a missionary any legacy religion could send today.

Cheers

Jim

Miles:

Good to have you in the conversation. And flattering. I just love having conversations with relative strangers about what really matters. Last night I passed up an opportunity to do a small group session in my church because my wife said I’d be disruptive. I’d just stir up trouble with my unconventional beliefs. So the only chance I have to speak with people about my beliefs is here. So welcome. Welcome.

The line I want to pick on is that thing about Christians believing that they alone possess truth about God. Do you really mean this? Nobody else has a clue? Christians are the sole possessors of truth about God?

What about the Jews? To some extent, the truth Christians have about God is also Jewish. We share the largest part of our respective bibles. Unless Christians only recognize the new testament as the Bible, which I don’t believe is the case. The Old testament, which is the Jewish bible, is bigger. Which, if our faiths are bible based, means we have more in common with the Jews than we have different.

Oh wait. And what about Moslems? They accept the whole bible. And they go beyond with their kor’an. They build on Christianity. They know about Abraham and Jesus and Paul. As do Mormons. Would you say that none of these groups has any truth about God?

And to broaden the point, what is your opinion about goodness? Are Christian people the sole possessors of goodness? Do you have to be Christian to be good? What do you make of, oh let’s say Ghandi? Not good? Not holy? Are all non-Christians damned?

In my pilgrimage, one of the things that gave me pause, that made me ponder, was when I saw a person I knew to be a sinner (something about having sex with a married woman, another man’s wife) open his wallet and give to a good cause. How can sinners do good things? As far as I could detect, there was no hypocrisy here. There was no intent to appear good. And you see sinners doing good all the time. They just do these good things because that is who they are. You don’t get good fruit from evil trees. You judge a tree by its fruit. Maybe this whole sin and judgement thing is more complex than we thought.

Wait. While I am at it, do you have any opinions about the various sects of Christianity? Do some possess more truth about God than others? Evangelicals vs Catholics for instance.

My answers to these questions are probably different from yours. But I’m eager to hear yours.

Cheers

Jim

Ana:

Athiest Central. There's a phrase. And a rough disguise for a christian site.

Thanks for your comment. Talking with you is fun.

I did key on one of your statements. One with which I agree actually. God does not change. Actually, who knows whether God changes? Still, I tend to believe that God does not change. And things like, if you think you are more distant from God than you once were, guess who moved.

Many Christians have smug confidence that they alone possess truth about God. Actually, we know only a tiny fraction of God. We humans have little pea brains. Mostly we speculate. We experience God, who is beyond words, who is beyond our senses, and we use language to describe the experience and to speculate on the nature of God. I believe that the full deposit of revelation about God did not end with the close of New Testament times. With the composition of the last book of the Bible. (BTW, which book was written last, do you know? I know the last gospel was about 90 years after Jesus, whether his birth or death I do not know. Some of the letters could have been later than that.)

I believe that we experience God today. You and I. Perhaps as we speak. And that those experiences of God are not less valid than the experiences of people in ancient times.

God doesn’t change, but our notions of God change. And our notions are all we have. We do not know God as God is. We just have our best guess. And all that legacy wisdom from the bible and elsewhere.

Alas, for us humans, God can remain the same yet our notions of God can change. And in fact change all the time. If we are static in our beliefs, we are not trying hard enough. We are not growing. We have permission to say when something simply does not make sense.

We know a lot more than those ancient people who wrote the bible. What would they have written if they had an inkling of just how big the universe is. Would they think of heaven as up if they knew about outer space? If they knew that our planet is tiny and unremarkable, would they think of God as creator, spinning stardust into planets in remote parts of the universe? Hard to reconcile that notion of God with a man with a white beard and acute hearing above the clouds who sits there listening to prayers surrounded by legions of angels to do his bidding in answering them.

But I digress. And it is so easy to do. So many aspects of God and the right relationship with God to think about. It could be a life long project. And it ought to be.

Cheers.

Jim

Anna:

Thanks for reading and commenting. You and I are at a different place in the divine scheme of things. But the wheel is still in spin. I keep checking in on myself every so often to see what I really really believe. It changes. When I was a child, I believed as a child. But now I am am a man. My beliefs have changed. And they keep on changing. God is still working on me. I am a work in progress. Maybe you are too. Go with God.

Cheers

Jim

Debbie:

Did you write this? If so, I'd say you are a major poet. It is lovely. A delight to find among Gather posts.

Cheers.

Jim

Carla:

Thanks so much for taking time to read and thoughtfully comment. I believe that your beliefs and mine are simpatico. I agree with everything you've said.

I lean toward a concept of god God as an impersonal force. It is consistent with what we know scientifically, about the size of the universe and all. But I yearn for a personal God. I would love to connect and imagine that God and I sit at the edge of the stream and watch my thoughts or the world go by. And that I could rise from such experience refreshed and edified, even if I don't hear god speak. there is room for mystery. I think there is something in the human spirit that yearns for a God like that.

Once again, thanks so much for reading and commenting.

Cheers.

]Jim

Jivan:

You have some truth. But alas, all our truths are partial. I sometimes think that an atheist is one who hasn't found a concept of God that he or she likes. All the extant concepts are wrong, or at least incomplete. It is rational to disbelieve them. But hey, try your hand at creating a new and more acceptable concept. It will be wrong and incomplete too, but perhaps a lot closer to the mark. And future generations can build upon it.

Cheers.

Jim

John:

Just to balance the picture, let me report that I get feelings that good is happening all the time. God is good. Creation and redemption are going on. Something is afoot in the universe, pushing it forward. Wherever love happens, and beauty and truth, God is involved.

So there. A little balance.