Step 3: Consider the Competition (and Learn from Them)

Outstanding advice.  It applies not only here, but is one of the most important steps in SEO to determine meta tag keywords for a web page.

Thanks, Walker.  You raise a really good point.  I will be adding a few posts on "how to reach and build your audience" to the series (after we talk about experience creation).

Thanks Tom I will try to incorperate these in my posts.

Thanks Norene!  Please let me know how it goes.

I am sure you put a lot of time and effort into this post but I am going to be perfectly honest with you.......it's too long, too technical and doesn't interest me at all.  I am here purely for making friends, interacting with them and relaxation......Enjoy your day!

I appreciate the feedback, Sandra.  I just commented to MaryAnne that this is a more technical post than prior ones.  I wanted to provide a deep-dive for the quants here on Gather.  In my next post in this series, I'll talk about experience creation.

I agree with Sandra 100%!!

I can spend the time to do this or I can spend the time out taking photos of places and things of interest to myself and others that share those interests.  Most of this post doesn't apply to photography anyway in the long run but to the written post.  You can't see photos on public radio so it seems that Gather's objective is to move back to writing and the heck with all the rest.  Just my two cents and opinion.

Hi Katherine- actually points earning for photography has increased as well.  We value experiences of all kinds and realize that photography and video really enhances members' experiences here on the site.

"actually points earning for photography has increased as well"

So posting our own photos, which is mainly what I tend to do, is the same as posting articles, in the sense that it is now earning more for us?

I have not noticed an increase in points, as of yet, for posting photos so I will take a wait and see position on this. 

Most of only hope that things will smooth out soon.  There is so much frustration not only with the points change but with glitches and hostility from the constant flagging of content, some of which should not be flagged.  Gather is not a happy place right now and I would like to see that change.

I like, you Kat, am here to share my photography and try to learn a bit from others.  Although I am not here only for the points, they are a nice benefit and they keep me posting my content here rather than bigger places like flikr where they would receive many more views.  Since the point change, not only have my points decreased tremendously but my views have as well.  Where I would once receive 50-70 views per photo on average, now I receive about 20-30.  Of course the sharp decrease in views has also meant a sharp decrease in points.  So maybe we get more points for POSTING the photos (i.e. from 1 point to 2 points or whatever), but we're still losing many more by the decrease in views and the loss of points for viewing other people's content.

Just my two cents.

I agree, Kat, and Lisa, it is my understanding it is only views and comments on the photos that you get points for.  You could post hundreds of shots and get nothing if noone stopped by to see them.

Had to chuckle at "just my two cents" because the first thing that came to my mind was that's about all you have in "gather cash" to give:)

I am with you guys. Gather doesn't seem to be a place for photographers anymore. No one is communicating and sharing friendship anymore. I wonder if the chosen few get points for nasty comments they leave on others things?

Photography is my main thing as well. I did notice that the points were a bit better yesterday, but before yesterday, they were not any different.

Hang in there, photographers....it's where I go first.  I have learned alot from you Marianne, Kat, Carol, Lisa and Sue and I would be extremely unhappy if you stopped posting.

Thanks for sharing these tips. I see how I can take my topics of interest and research them on the net first....

Great, Alison!  Please give it a try and let me know what you think.

Whoa!! I would like to earn enough to pay for my cable usage, Tom, but wow! That is a lot of info for an old lady to sift thru and attempt to utilize. I have learned about proper tagging, at least, yay! And was a bit amazed that some of my way back articles had over 100 in hits, as I did not really tag back then. Perhaps there IS readership for short humor,lol. Now, as to GROUPS, aside from joining to find "like" interests, is there any OTHER reason to join groups? I wanted to clean up my gather area a bit, realized I had 12 pages of groups, most of whom I did not post to, some of whom had no owners anymore, and many that never, ever, responded to any posts. Sooo, I got down to 4 pages, more reasonable, then started wondering if I had done the right thing?

Penni- Good group owners act as editors.  They create a focused space for exploring some topic (e.g. food, travel, parenting, poetry).  They then moderate the group so only quality experiences that are on-topic appear there.

My rule of thumb: I join only moderated groups on topics that I enjoy.  I check the moderation history to make sure it's aggressive.  And I accept notifications from groups with owners I trust.

I'm going to follow you penni because this old lady is very confused by all the 'tech talk' as well.  I too have learned to 'tag' differently.  Still working on it, but I do see how it makes a difference.

 Katie, you already have a great "niche", FOOD and how to Prepare. I can't imagine you needing tips,lol, as those of us who tend to get hungry follow your posts......and wish we were sitting at your taole,ha!

what does the word quants mean?

what happen to the socializing on here?

i am here to support my friends

Hi Nancy- By "quant" I am referring to people who like quantitative/math methods for analysis.  Gather is still focused on being a place for people to make great friends (and support them when they need it).  This was just one piece in a series I am writing about earning points because members requested tips on that front.

thanks for answering my comment Tom.....FYI, my name is Fancy

Whoops!  Sorry Fancy (love the name, btw)!  I'll do better next time.

Tom, I'm not seeing where this new system of points and trying to bring in views from outside gather is at all in line with your tag "meet people, make friends."  It seems more like--write professional posts and do lots of work promoting it outside of gather so gather receives more views.  The gather community itself doesn't seem to matter anymore.

I LOVE CHOCOLATE!!!!!   =D

ANd Everything that's bad for me!!! yay

HI TOM~  *I blame this comment on 2 venti extracaramelsoymacchiatos*

See, great chocolate is a terrific group theme Purrrrrrrrrrrrr.  Or might be.  I'd have to do the analysis described above to be sure :-)

*scrolls up to see if its flagged for inappropriate content*

*nope~ never mind* ;)

Yeah~what u said Tom =D

Actually I love my GutterGirls group bestest of all~anything goes~especially the mutipurpose chocolate~  yay for chocolate~yay for Gather~ woo hoo

Purr, I wanna be a "gutter girl"!!  I am going to join your group..

YAY~~~~ Kimmie's gonna be a Gutter Girl too~~~~  woo hooo

o, boys can be gutter girls too~  =D  just sayin' ;)

I am also wondering if I own a group and it does well do I benefit or do the individual writers benefit?

I"d be interested in your answer on this, too, Tom!

I'm interested in this answer also.

Norene- it's a fuzzy answer today.  You benefit in the sense that when you operate a successful group and add your own content to is, you will increase your readership.  Bringing in information from others (who also then benefit) keeps your group more vibrant and active, so readers are more likely to return.

In the future, we are considering direct points earning for successful group operation.  I favor this myself and am talking with the team about it.

 Oh, that would be nice, Tom. I have one group doing well, and I try to reply to contributors, tho it is not moderated except I promised no games,lol...and the other is dead in the water. It may need to be deleted to make room for someone to start a better group.

So the "post all" groups that probably noone really goes to the actual group pages (just posts to the groups) are not really very benefical then?  Basically if the group isn't what's drawing people to view content, then they aren't really helpful.  I'm I understanding right, Tom?

That's right, Sue, unless people have moderated  membership to those groups as a way to keep a circle of friends in touch.  The ones that were created for points actually have a negative impact for people posting into them.  Search engines are likely to ignore posts that go to too many groups (they see it as duplicate content).

The best strategy is to share your content into one (or a few) places that are active groups and not post it everywhere you can find that might accept it.

It is discouraging to keep a group moderated daily and not be rewarded for it--it can take a lot of time.  I hope they do somehow reward active group owners.

some of the photography groups that have contests and themes keep the moderator super busy and now they don't even get many points for viewing those photos submitted.

I am really enjoying these articles, Tom!  So much info on the net that I didn't know existed before!  I really appreciate the time you putting into this series.

Well thanks, Sue!  That's very kind of you.  I will keep the series going until I think I have a the basics together.  Then I'll circle back and see what else people are interested in learning/sharing on the topic.

Yeah - too technical for me and I went into a coma.  That math stuff is your job, right.  ha ha - I'm just here having fun and the comments come to my articles as they come.

(but thanks for the effort - for those that do understand)

Ha! I understand, Peter.  I'll keep the next one a lot less technical.  I had to let out my inner geek for a change.

You lost me at the "600 groups for poetry".

Yeah, I need to find some more to join !!!

Woot - I just joined Poetry Gazebo !!!

But I love some of the poetry groups!  I am really looking for a video-beat-poetry performance group to be formed.  Any takers?

Don't limit yourself, PJS. There are always 124,738 "post anything" groups to join.

I have slow speed so no video for me ...

(and I love the "post anything" groups because I post in such a wide variety that usually that's all I can fit most my stuff into - and I want to post to groups just the same)

Like Peter, my head is still spinning, ha ha. I'm glad some people get it...

Learned a new word though... "quants".. lol.

Wikipedia provides a much more complete description of the origins of the word "quant" if you are interested, John.

Tom, my comment is only slightly relevant to this article.  All week I have been reading posts and comments condemning the members of Gather who have been using the site to supplement their income.  Those quick to judge insist that Gather is a social site not a job. Agree or disagree the topic has been a source of contention and disturbs the sense of community that this site had become.  The articles being written and posted to the Earn More Points group suggest methods of creating content that if used would indeed make being on Gather seem more like a job.  I appreciate the education these articles are supplying me with but wish Gather would define what exactly they want this site to be.  I believe the site has room enough for both those that want to socialize and those more interested in driving up their readership.  I am curious as to where your thoughts on this subject lay.  The behaviour of some members on this site has become destructive and hurtful and perhaps your thoughts might ease some of the tensions developing on those who are on opposite sides of the issue.

I agree, Linda, I would think there would be room for both.

Linda, earlier this week you replied in a comment that people didn't like that Gather had in effect "cut their wages."  In the formal sense of the word, no, Gather is only a job for those who are actually EMPLOYED and receive a paycheck (and I doubt Gather pays its real employees in points).  That comment drew several replies from me and various people about how Gather doesn't employ us and they can change their points allocation however and whenever they want and it is up to us to change and adapt.

All that to say, I believe Tom is encouraging those who WANT to use Gather as a "side" job or a "cottage industry" type of thing to do so.  And, in his last three posts (including this one) basically what he is saying is, if you bring readership TO Gather from OUTSIDE of Gather, you will be rewarded.  The more people you draw in the more points you will get.  You scratch Gather's back and help them up their site clicks and ad revenue and they will inturn scratch yours.

I for one am not interested in doing that because it seems way too much like painful, unexciting, noncreative WORK.  I have plenty of that at home with 3 preschoolers!

Thank you Heidi for your comment.  You just proved a point that my comment was trying to highlight.  A point that you missed entirely.

Regarding my comment on your post earlier this week, I do not appreciate being misquoted.  My actual words were not that Gather had "cut their wages."   I also clearly understand the concept of bringing readership from outside of Gather into Gather.   Instead of linking to your post I have included my actual words below.

"Gather needed to find a way to increase the value of the articles posted but they could have and I believe should have found a different route to take.  The approach they took made some of us feel that we are not worth very much to Gather.  I viewed way more than I posted but almost always included a comment.  Comment never earned points but do provide valuable feedback to the people who do post articles.  I have cut my viewing way down.  I am more selective about what I decide to read.  Sadly this no longer includes things like poetry and political pieces.  Both are topics I struggled to understand  but always felt I was learning from them.  Now I feel the need to concentrate on posts that are written by people who actually comment back.

I was never here for the points but there is a matter of principle at hand here that I am  standing by.  If you worked a job and your boss suddenly decided he was cutting your paycheck you would not just stand quietly by.  For some people on here Gather did mean a little more money in their pockets and no one can expect them to feel good about this change."

Linda, I think you are brave to stand your ground, personally I love the points because I love to be able splurge a little on beads with our budget being tight...  but I have never been here for the points. thats obvious because I have only earned a total of 45.00 in gcs since I started in 2006..

Tom, I am thoroughly enjoying this series.  Great advice and incredibly relevant information!

A well written and informative post Tom. As pointed out above, the same techniques are applicable for any online property that members wish to promote.

However, it is unlikely that the majority of members will have the motivation to read through the above material and to execute it in a meaningful way.

This is informative. However, it does sound like it is making Gather a lot more work. Since there is so little compensation for most members who are producing original content, how much effort are members going to put into doing stuff like this?

I know you've been breathlessly waiting for the Grumpy Old Lady's take on this whole issue, Tom..so here it is:  I HATE this whole "creating experiences" concept you're pushing.  I'm a writer, by inclination, desire and profession and I couldn't care less about "creating experiences" for anyone.  Of course I want readers, but what they "experience" from my writing is their business, not my raison d'etre. I want readers to appreciate the quality of my work, not the number of search engines, quants, beeps, bloops or tweets my posts engender.

When I became a member of Gather, I viewed it as a sort of low-grade royalty producer, as that was your sales pitch at the time ("Writers need money, too", Tom Gerace, 2007).  Then, as the site began to morph from a place to meet and interact with peers and colleagues to an unsupervised playground where anyone could publish any stray, misspelled, ungrammatical thought that crossed their minds and earn the same amount of royalties as thoughtful, edited, intelligent words received, my disillusion began.  And now, as the emphasis turns more and more to point accrual and less and less to quality of input, I have lost all desire to publish here.  I'll continue to visit and comment (which I guess no longer pays, despite the time and thought that goes into comments like this one), but any content I post here will be incidental and secondary.

In short, Gather no longer feels welcoming to me.  If I have to base my work on keywords and SEO content, I'm no longer a writer...just a hack who gets paid per word, a phase I passed a long time ago.

Dame;

much as I agree and sympathize with many of your valid points, I do feel I need to point out that, as Twain said, "you are a professional whether they pay you to play,... or pay you to stop".
Writers have been paid by the word since sun baked clay tablets, and it shows little sign of changing. 
Even advance contracts for the big names are based on a word sized delivery, not on syllable count.

I never thought you were 'Grumpy', but *I* am a Curmudgeon.

Peace.

Gather hasn't felt welcoming to me since Hawthorne - it no longer, in my experience, produces relationships - which was the very thing that Gather used to be so very good at.

I am tolerant of the point Gatherers because most really need the money. I do say that they should add something to Gather rather than "Great post" or "lol." I do not mind a brief "I agree with you." I know that one other person has read my post.I  find it very easy to keep point Gatherers out of my life on Gather. They rather stay to themselves.

building an audience over time is doable Tom, KEEPING THEM ON GATHER is another story.

I put Gather.com into the quanticast site and was not at all surprised to see that Gather's meant for Americans, not the rest of us according to the description there.

My understanding from reading the article is not to join to many groups and moderate all of your groups.  If this is my understanding, then many groups will have a hard time adding any members like my groups.  I don't plan to start moderating my group Money Savers, as think the members know what saves money and see few posts that don't fit in the group.  I welcome everyone to join, as I regularly post free items and read every single post.  If somebody starts posting large numbers of items that are off the topic, then I'll say something, but I see no reason to slow down a post by my having to approve it.  I'm glad many people are joining my group Money Savers

I do have one moderated group and its a coupon clipping group, which gets few posts.  It was good when it started, but so many people wanted to post internet print and I know many people can't use them.

This is some really helpful advice that can be applied to people who have their own blogs and websites, too.

Until Gather addresses the problem of how to reward us foreigners....  I couldn't care LESS about 'enriching' my Gather points.   It's a total waste of time for us.

I am here because I've made some good 'friends' via the site.  The points are meaningless.

Once I saw the chart, my brain froze.  Unfortunately I am an artist and while I LOVE math and often do logic puzzles for fun, the two rarely cross paths for me.  So, just the thought of applying all the strategies for earning here at Gather just makes my head hurt.  I think I'd make more money working minimum wage for McDonald's.

from a beat poet from the sixties get me the equipment yeah then I could!

my extra points go for mainly needs BUT I am going to be here because I like the challenge.

It is hard though when it takes feom 2 om ttill 4am to get a item post!

complained two time no response

they are researched posts by the by!

Thanks, Tom.  You're getting into the area now that I still need to learn to utilize effectively, and I appreciate the depth and clarity with which you've addressed it.

Tom, I appreciate all the work that you put into this article. I am sorry that I couldn't read all the way through it. I had to stop about a quarter of the way through to see if I could sign up for a college class to explain it all. But, then I thought, I have to do all that for 5 cents a day? I think I will pass.

It's like we received a pay cut and now we are asked to work overtime for it.

Who am I competing with?

This sounds like work.

Tom - thank you. This is great information to have and I appreciate the time and effort you put into this series. Quants can be a good thing:)

I like my points and I like my friends and I'd like to continue to enjoy both.

AHA - now I understand about the group thing too, thanks for explaining about the search engines thinking it is duplicate content. I'm cleaning my gather house today - so bye bye groups, except for those which provide friendship, education, cool photography, fun and that rare thing - a wonderful gather experience:)

BTW - I sure hope you will act soon on doing something extra for the hard work of successful group moderators.

I've never had a group, but it looks like after one of the last upgrades it has become easier to set up a group - so maybe I'll give it a try down the line. 

So posting to less groups is better ???????  I always post everything I do to 20 or 30 post anything groups, as well as whatever specific group it may fit. It is a surprise to hear now that it is better not to do that. It will take awhile to unlearn that habit of posting several places. Does that mean it is best to not post to any post anything groups???

I do own one of my own post anything groups, which I do not moderate or have time to respond to the people who post to it very often. I do like having my own group so that I can use it when I post to my albums and not upset onyone for clogging up their group.

So, if posting to less groups is better, does that mean that posting to only one group at a time is best? If I do a post and send it to 5 post anything groups and one specific group is that too many groups?

After reading all of this, I am not that sure that Gather is the place to be anymore. What happened to being a place with something for everybody? Now it seems to be just a place for a select few who want to market themselves.

If you don't get points for viewing, then fewer people will be viewing and more people will be writing. What's the point in writing if nobody is going to read what you write? I don't get it.

This is rich information.

This is really good advice.  I like being here for a variety of reasons.  My main ones being that there are so many different things that interest me.  Some excellent writers, excellent photography, great people to chat with and I love sharing my stuff.  I don't use it so much for the points as I do for keeping an online record/backup of things in my life and family - almost like a blog and I also use it to practice my writing and get genuine input from people who don't just tell me they like it b/c they are my family.  I have loved this site from the first I heard of it, and through all the changes, and will continue to love it - EVEN if you took points away completely.  Gather is a great place to come hang out!

I respond well to rainbows and butterflies.

lol, j/k.  I'm going to actually read through all of that tomorrow...wednesday, maybe and see if I can use it.  I like to just post as things happen in my life, but you never know.  I am not one to pass a learning experience by so the nerd in me will bookmark this to study.

Tom, I love all this "tech talk".  Just did a google search on "vacations in Maine" as well as various places in Maine and found quite an interest.  Don't have the ability to download pictures up at the "Flying Jib" but once I get home to Mass you'll see a slew of articles on EB White, the Wooden Boat School, and Haystack Mountain School of Art.

I got a little lost on this one.  But thanks

Great advise.  I am diabled so I spend a lot of time with the TV.  SmithsonionHD has had son wonderful American history specials lately.  These are things I've never heard of and I'm a history buff.  I am working on at least three different posts.