The IRS has a law that if you pay for legal services, you can and should issue a 1099 to the lawyer, with a copy going to the government. It appears to only be required that corporations have to file such documents, but it does not say that the American public at large can not file them.(1) Most politicians are lawyers, and such documents are required for other services paid by individuals, e.g. nannies and house cleaners, why not file them for lawyers?
The average reported salary for a lawyer, according to Pay Scale is only $114,445 after 20 years. It appears that most lawyers are living well above their means. The lawyers that I see are driving expensive cars and living in very nice homes.
The cost of a new Mercedes C Class to own and operate for one year is $41,589. (2) Housing prices vary according to location, but at the low end of the scale, $200,000, a thirty-year mortgage assuming a 10% down payment and not including taxes and insurance, costs $15, 849 per year at 8% interest. Income taxes, assuming a 30% tax bracket, amount to $43,320. The total expenses for these three items alone, is $100,398, leaving just over $14,000 for living expenses such as food, electric, property taxes, insurance, saving for vacations and retirement.
I propose that the Internal Revenue Service ask the American public, using Form 1099-MISC*, to report all legal fees paid for the last five years. A computer comparison of these forms to wages reported for such fees could net billions in unpaid taxes. In doing so, as most politicians are lawyers, the net effect would be to show unreported income by thousands of these people across the country. The IRS depends solely on what the lawyer or law firm reports to them. Everyone has heard of “unreported” income from other professions, why not lawyers and politicians? Of course, the American Bar Association would argue that all lawyers and politicians are honest, hardworking professionals and that they are being unduly singled out. I would counter that with "If so, than you should back this action to once and for all put to rest the American public's distrust of these people.
This could be carried further by a computer comparison of legal fees declared on tax returns to name matches of lawyers these fees were paid to. With the 1,100,000 (est., American Bar Association) lawyers in the US, it could be costing our economy in the billions of dollars. That’s money we could use right now.
This idea of unpaid taxes could be extended to other professions where the checks and balances are dependent on self-reporting, e.g. doctors, dentists, anyone to whom large cash payments are required.
This is not a hair-brained scheme. IRS targets certain groups of taxpayers every year. They have never bothered to target unreported income from these people, and the solution to finding it is simple. When, given the figures, these people should be declaring bankruptcy, why not investigate? This idea could be tested on a onetime basis, and if it is fruitful, it could be extended to a yearly requirement via a one-line entry on all tax forms.
*1099-MISC Forms are available from IRS.
(1) Internal Revenue Service, 2009 1099-Misc Instructions.
(2) automobilemag.com and Edmonds.com
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Mother Toad (Gail, Love the Spring, season and step
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January 25, 2007 How To Net Corrupt Politicians and Help Fix the Economy
March 13, 2009 07:55 AM EDT
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Comments: 23
Are you saying they are not reporting this fees as income?
Or they could be crooks.
Barb, many of the tax deductions and shelters of the past were eliminated. But the media and liberals want you to believe they're still there so that you'll continue to be mad at big businesses and rich people.
But this is something to consider. If they're not reporting income, that is definitely cheating us out of tax income needed by the country.
Wouldn't it just figure that our politicians - a huge majority of whom are lawyers - would be in Washington DC bashing others for not reporting income or for not paying taxes while they're guiilty of that themselves.
Not so hard to imagine, given how many of Obama's potential cabinet members "forgot" to pay taxes.
If this is being done, the amount of money involved here could make Barney Madoff look like he was stealing penny candy. But this time it is not just from the rich, it is from every American.
As for lawyers... an awful lot of 'em work for a multi-lawyer firm. The partners' income is more a matter of profit than payment for their services. Smaller firms and individual attorneys "make" a lot more than $114,000, but two dollars out of every three they charge goes to expenses such as rent, heat, electricity, IT costs, secretarial and clerk salaries, and a host of other expenses.
Then again, makin' sure they pay their fair share ain't no bad thing...
Chuck, I agree that there are a lot of expenses in running an office, but the figure for income is net of those expenses. What person, in their right mind, would work for that limited income after 20 years of service and having to endure the rigors of law school and the Bar tests, not to mention the expenses involved in getting in in the first place? There has to be a reason.
Being a lawyer/politician is the ultimate cash business. Money comes in, but who checks where it goes? People in cash businesses can do anything with it. Cash is hard to trace. As long as a check does not exceed $9,999.99, it is not reported to the government by either the issuing or receiving bank. You can have thousands of checks per day, as long as none exceed the limit, and than only the check exceeding the limit is reported, none of the others.
Unreported income can go into the coffers for running for office. This income can be used for such things as "dirty tricks", payments for support by existing office holders, any number of things that surfaced in recent years. Secret accounts can be held in third party names or the names of trusts and used to win an election or appointment by illegal means.
I know of one case where a person claimed to have paid $8,400 for legal fees over the course of 3 years. The lawyer produces at least 2 motion per month for him. Someone is not telling the truth. If a lawyer charges $200 per hour, and a motion takes two hours to produce, that"s $800 from one person. Now stand outside this lawyer's office and count the number of people entering. 4 people per day on average times twenty working days per month. That is $64,000 per month. He has one assistant and does not do advertising and shares the assistant with another lawyer. The numbers do not add up. And this is only one here in town, there are a lot more, and no huge firms, all little guys who end up running for office or retire very nicely in places that are tax exempt (a quirk in the law for rich people) and are cared for for the rest of their lives if their money runs out at taxpayer expense.
1. The car does not cost anywhere near what you stated-Bad math.
2. Most attorneys work for a firm and are paid by billable hours-hate the practice but it is what it is-as a result they are paid by W-2 as are the partners.
3. You forgot expenses most attorneys pay that practice outside the firms_
a) Office Rent or other expenses if they own the building they are in
b) Utilities
c) Clerical
d) equipment purchase and upkeep
e) Supplies
f) Mal Practice-they need it!
g) Storage of files off site
h) Many other expenses
When they bill you they have to maintain a log of hourly billing for either the IRS to review and they do, or incase there is a conflict on the way the billing was done. I have seen several attorneys sued for false billing practices and lose if they do not maintain records to verify billing practices-then they get audited.
I do not believe you send a 1099 or any other tax form beyond a certain date-it is less than 1 year! If you send a late form out to someone you might become liable for the Tax burden if they sue you and I am sure you would spend more of your money defending your self for trying to prove something so far off base!
You always have a right to request an Itemized bill by service and time rendered!
I always got a bill from my attorney that itemized my fees by time or service.
The average income includes new graduates that earn $25,000 starting or states attorneys who are on salaries lower than $100,000. You can not paint the world with one brush!
That being said-it would be fund to provide the attorney or firm with a 1099 for future billings-would help us prove we paid on our tax forms and insure they declare it in the future.
Try to be more accurate on your stuff! You get people wound up with the wrong information! I feel you pain with attornthe topic!eys but also want "Fair and Balanced" information-
Shortly before my case, my grandfather's lawyer shared his private legal information with a person to whom he was not given permission to disclose anything. This was information to which only three people were privy... my Grandfather (with whom the other person had no contact), the lawyer, and the person who filed the complaint about the disclosure. In addition to the fact that this left the other person with no way of finding out except from the lawyer, we were told by this person that he learned the information from the lawyer.
The Bar Association's investigation went something like this:
Bar Ass to Lawyer: Did you do it?
Lawer to Bar Ass: Nope.
Bar Ass to Complainant: He says he didn't do it. Case closed.
It seems to me that the only malpractice insurance Lawyers need is each other.
This makes so much sense, it should have been done by now.
It could be connected through their appointment books.