How stupid are we?
You mean to tell me NO ONE saw this one coming???
This is what they have known about this guy for awhile now....
First, his name was NIDAL MALIK HASAN...
He was a DEVOUT RADICAL MUSLIM...
He frequented radical Muslim websites and discussed bombings of Americans...
He recited his Muslim Prayers every morning and wore his Muslim garb regularly on base...
He had talked to others about his problem with being put in a position where he would have to kill his own people...???DUH! WHY IS HE IN THE US ARMY?
He has had "problems" with his patients (he is a shrink) and it was so bad that he needed psychiatric treatment himself over it...
HOW DID THIS GUY GET INTO THE US MILITARY????????
Be sure and watch the video:
This is beyond belief!
All the news stations are treating this like it is just some "normal" soldier who went berzerk over being deployed...
WTH? HE'S THE ENEMY! WAKE UP! HE'S A RADICAL MUSLIM!!!! WE ARE AT WAR WITH WHO???? RADICAL MUSLIMS!!!!
What, do they just let anybody walk in the door and sign up?
Why can't they at least try to keep the ENEMY out of our military?
Peaceful Religion? My A$$!
THIS is why all the Japanese were rounded up after the bombing of Pearl Harbor! No one knew who to trust...AND NEITHER DO WE!
I want to know who is responsible for letting him in the army and I want that guy ousted! I don't know about you, but I will be writing to my Congressmen about this lack of common sense!
If it looks like the enemy, and it acts like the enemy, and it prays like the enemy...then chances are.....
IT'S THE ENEMY!!!!!
Folks, our REAL soldiers are in imminent danger on OUR OWN SOIL! We need to swiftly do something to ensure their safety! I wll be demanding that all Muslims be released from US military duty immediately and personally ESCORTED off the bases, RIGHT NOW! Not to be allowed back on base!
God help our soldiers! I am so sick and tired of this admin doing everything it can to undermine our military!
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Saddam Hussein then
Gulf War !
The Taliban
then 911 then the mangled war in Afghanistan
The War on terror in Iraq [ who had nothing to do with 911]
who have been in cahoots with the Saudi's, our allies LOL
who've broken the army
who've bankrupted the treasury and stolen billions or siphoned billions more to their cronies....to the same bunch that have privatized almost everything the army does......for a profit!
brilliant indeed.....why not just deport all the Muslims and outlw the religion here? Oh yes the Constitution......but that quaint document did get trampled by Cheney bush....so yes brim em back! there's still a vestige of the country left!
Outlaw religion? The only ones I see advocating controls on religion seem more inline with your beliefs Louis than Elizabeth.
As for the trampling of the Constitution, have you protested a single act of it by Obama? No. Has your guy stopped any past violations of it? No. Vestige of the country? Naw, we don't need Bush/Cheney to get that, your guy is doing quite well all by himself.
I think ALL MUSLIMS need to be treated just like the Japanese were treated when they bombed Pearl harbor...rounded up, and detained.
Inter all white guys?
True NOT a reasonable nor desirable expectation.
"Clearly your military powers that be allowed this sick man to remain active military so where should your anger lie?"
We don't know all of the circumstances yet but his calling out "Allahu Akbar!" as he murdered his victims might suggest a terrorists attack. Was this man a plant? With this was his intent all along?
Maybe he felt he could not carry out his mission as well when surrounded by armed soldiers in a war zone so he performed his duty before being transferred.
Timothy McVeigh!
One white guy and ???????
Political correctness maybe?
Did anyone suggest anything like that?........Let me read back through the comments.....Nope nobody suggested anything like that!
to plan such a massive bombing and then never take credit for it defeats the purpose of a terror attack.
And by the way everything I've read indicates Iraq waged a constant secret police war against Al Qeda any time they surfaced.
It took a President of the United States deciding to decapitate Iraq's government to give Al Qeda the foothold tehy got in Iraq.
You want a list of homegrown terrorist and hate groups? I'll be HAPPY to supply it. I've posted it several times in the past.
9-11 was NOT an assault on America! It was an attack on two buildings in NYC and the Pentagon (which Professor William Ayers supposedly blew up back in the 60s if you're dumb enough to believe Sean Hannity). An "assault" on America would be someone ordering the carpet bombing of this nation and killing over 100,000 people like we did with our "Shock and Awe" in Iraq!
Got Ammo?
But Bush and Julie desperately wanted it an American Tragedy.
~~~
"I am so upset. I couldn't agree more. Bring back Cheney and Bush."
*Carol ~Bronx Southern Belle D. you are so wrong writing that. This animal entered the military long before President Obama had any aspirations of running for the Presidency. Now is not the time for partisan politics. You are so wrong.
I am so saddened by the events of yesterday. I'm also very angry, not at anyone, but the perpetrator himself.
I'm basically speechless at the fact that this could happen not only on American soil, but at an American military base.
Anyway thanks for posting this article to our group, Barack Obama's Presidential Appointments, Bills and Policies.
http://obamasupporters.gather.com/
Sadly it is now our latest FEATURED post.
Lloyd
He said many times he had problems with his religious beliefs conflicting with his military status....and as Dan pointed out, he yelled "Allahu Akbar" as he opened fire on his victims.
What do YOU suggest we do about this Christy?
-- not only Muslims, but ALL personnel
-- and they might try using those metal detector gates that the rest of us have to walk thru wherever we go
~~~
American Citizens of Japanese heritage were treated at the onset of WWII
~~~
This guy apparently had done his job competently overall and there is nothing in the UCMJ/US Civil Code allowing anyone to jail or boot him. We cannot play mind police (yet) so preemptive action would have been unlawful. While his acts of internet writings are wrong, they are not illegal (yet) Hundreds of Muslims serve this nation in the Armed Forces and do so well. We simply cannot judge all by the acts of one madman.
Sadly the week after he left, one young man he'd gotten to know a bit (whenever their convoy rolled in because the young man ran the crane that moved the K-rails away and back at the gate,) was shot by a sniper from a roof. The man left a wife and 3 kids.
He was just trying to make a living, and the US base was where he found work.
One day a town they'd frequently pass thru now had little levee like mounds built in a large rectangle inside the main square. The intel people talked with the Sheik (mayor) and Imam (preacher.) The sheik told them under the Anbar Awakening, his town militia had been re-armed by the US. So the town decided to mark the soccer filed for their kids and put out the word to the foreigners that no bombs, no ambushes, no shootouts were to ever be in that area. He promised the convoys could pass thru safely, and begged them to drive carefully whenever the kids were there. Intel asked if there were in fact "foreigners" in the area, and the Imam piped up "We cannot betray our Moslem brothers." The Sheik interrupted and reiterated that anyone would be safe passing thru that town, but the first to violate that safety would face the wrath of the towns militia.
For the rest of the year my sons unit was there, they'd pass thru that town, kids would wave, old men would walk about the soccer filed surveying the games, and there was never any trouble at all.
This stupid officer at Fort Hood chose the wrong side.
The common people are desperate to live peaceful normal lives.
My son said as an American, one just can't understand until actually in a war zone. He chose to remember the small steps that torn apart nation is making.
Only two of the hundreds, if not thousands of Muslims serving have done anything like this. As long as they are citizens, they still are entitled to their opinions even while serving.
Ok, maybe this will clear it up:
Creeping Sharia
Even this man's Imam said he didn't seem to understand his faith nor his mission in the Army.
I think he knew what he was doing. I don't think he was stupid, just evil.
If it turns out that they had sufficient info to do one of those two things and the FBI failed to notify, then its a typical bureaucratic snafu.
I think ALL MUSLIMS need to be treated just like the Japanese were treated when they bombed Pearl harbor...rounded up, and detained."
Uhh huh........
Every day is enlightening as to the hate here.
You have spread your share of hate!
Damn right I am MAD AS HECK ABOUT IT! It's the ultimate slap in the face to our troops!
Don(time to open them FEMA camps) S. Nov 6, 2009, 2:20pm EST
Uhh huh........
Every day is enlightening as to the hate here.
The Japanese were detained in camps as security risks.
Sure not all Japanese were dangerous and most probably loved America but how were we to know that. We were at war for our very lives . What's wrong with you Don. You let your compassion overrun your common sense.
Another lie of the left.
I remember the debacle well, where the Liberal Democrats were using all sorts of conditional words like "he best" or "the latest" when they were chastising the Bush administration for not supplying "armor" to the troops.
Sure they were not always equipped with the BEST armor but then that would be the purview of the congress who approved of or disproved of the budget for the military, they wanted to buy the military the humvees, they just didn't want to pay to have them up-armored.
Not Bush's decision, but what the hell! What a a few facts to get in the way of hate?
Bush screwed up more than once but to try and blame him for the body armor probs is typical of some.
REPLACEMENT? It wasn't there in the first place! Figure what, a minimum maybe of $5 per cotter pin x four doors x 100's of humvees. Well you can do the math. STINKY STENCH OF THE MILITARY INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX
I think that finally he just broke.
Can you name one lately?
He frequented radical Muslim websites and discussed bombings of Americans..."
Elizabeth,
I didn't see anything about this in the story you linked to....did I miss it?
I have since found some that suggest the same thing but still nothing concrete.
I have to admit though, his calling out "God is Great" before murdering his victims seems to point in that direction.
I'll go watch the video.
And became a terrorist himself?
Sharia Law is not the Koran.
Not all Moslems follow sharia law.
It isn't necessarily the religion that creates the problems, it is codifying church law as civil law.
For example, George Washington's grandmother was hauled in front of the town by the church warden and accused of "whorish behavior" because she was dating too soon after her husband died.
That's how it goes when the "Church" runs the law.
please post another wrong link.
Sharia Law in Europe
I. e. in Muslim countries most ordinary citizens oppose the terrorist groups.
Unfortunately as always happens, he did not voice his concerns to Fort Hood.
p.s. People like Limbaugh and Palin who rage "there is no room for moderates" sound much like the Islamic fundies,, don't they.
I agree. We need to raise taxes so we can cover their mental health care for life and hire the police forces it will take to protect us from them and them from themselves. THIS is what happens when you send kids to kill for no reason - they come home broken and they break our society.
I know many people who practice the Muslim religion, some are white even (gasp)
And the comment pertaining to rounding up the Japanese, you do understand that quite a few of those people were born in US, but their race just happened to be Japanese...and during the time in that camp, many women and children were raped, old men were beaten, young men disappeared in the middle of the night. Only difference from the Holocaust camps and the Japanese camps, was we didn't brand them with a tattoo.
P.S. my aunt taught school at one of the camps. Conditions were harsh, but not much different than she'd seen the 2 years she taught on an Indian Reservation.
She saw some brutish guards, but nothing like you describe. She likened those guards to the bad eggs that crop up in any police force, and just like a police force the other guards protected those thugs. That part made her sick; her husband was fighting in Europe while these soldiers had easy duty guarding the barracks and soccer fields of the camps.
It was indeed a wrong incarceration, but to equate this injustice with the death camps of the Nazi's is an insult to history.
You give up your rights first:
Religious freedom!
Lets put all people with certain names in internment camps, I see starting with names like those in the Bible like Elizabeth.
Freedom of speech!
Muslims are of many different sects as Christians are of different denominations.
Lets incarcerate everyone who visits certain internet sites.
I could go on with these examples of your ignorance and hubris yet, your discussion makes me ill.
I suppose you are one of those nuts who run around shouting "I want my country back"...silly and stupid!
Are you ready to fight these guys on your damn front lawn? Because obviously, that's where this is going!!!!
You should really get that fixed!
Not when their safety on a US base is being undermined! They didn't have anyway to protect themselves from this a$$hole...they should allow them to carry their weapons on base, if they are going to allow the enemy to lurk among them.
There are more skinheads, and anti-American group members in the military than there are Muslims, fear who you want yet, the military can and will resolve this issue and take the necessary steps that the situation requires.
BTW--I am from a military family, Father and Brother.
It's a tactic invented by the left, designed to make our military hesitate to do anything in times of tough decision...many of them are facing court martial for doing what they are taught to do in wartime situations...so don't lecture me...I have men in my family who are military too...
If these liberal whiney butts would get OUT of the military's business and let them run it like a military, that would be great, but they don't...some bleeding heart liberal will stick his damn nose where it doesn't belong, and our tax dollars will end up funding this little SOB's White robes and Prayer mats for the rest of his life, once he recovers!
You just watch how sympathetic the mainstream media is to this terrorist! Watch how they downplay what he did, as if he is just another American soldier with PTSD and they'll keep repeating "it could happen to any of them"...this is such BS! He is NOT just another American soldier...he is a terrorist! He fits the profile of a terrorist, and they should ahve done something about it long ago...they were afraid to, because some stupid liberal would have had them court martialed already for doing so (thus avoiding this massacre!)
Sane people? I don't think there ARE any sane people left in power anymore, Johnice...and the few who are, get "raped" when they try to stand up for justice of any kind.
And maybe that extermination thingy!
The world yawned, Japan continued its murderous onslaught throughout the pacific nations and eventually attacked the US base at Pearl Harbor.
If we had not killed them, how many more would have been killed by them?
It would have been millions more than the Nazi's killed in Europe and millions more than the Japanese killed in China.
No it is nothing to be proud of, but it is worth defending!
That was the ugly truth. There was a bigger German spy ring in Hawaii than the less than a half dozen Japanese agents.
I wrote the aide to FDR stood up and said that.
By 1950 FDR was long dead, and certainly could not have stood up even if alive.
I remember this being quoted back when Reagan pushed for the reparations to be paid to the surviving internees.
It's out there, I see if I can find it on the net somewhere.
So I would have been sneaky I guess!
But there is a lot this old brain recalls from the Reagan era that still hasn't surfaced in history books or even Bartlett's Quotations. (One quote in the edition that I have. ONE by "the Great Communicator," out of all the memorable things he said.)
When some person I don't know and who doesn't know be starts trying to kill me it isn't because that person is my enemy. Persons who are homicidal are, in the main, of unsound mind. While I must deal with the possibility of such people I do not have to hate them nor consider every group of which they may be a part as my enemy.
If someone does shoot me in the butt it will probably be someone who knows me well, not a total stranger.
Finally, I find that my attitude makes friends rather than enemies.
What good would it do me to hate them? They are insane. I might as well hate rabid raccoons. Should I hate any driver who injures be because they were driving while drunk? That's far more likely to happen.
Self preservation is not the first law of nature. Take bees for example. The honey bee dies if it stings. Yet it sacrifices its life to protect the hive. Mothers risk death to protect their children. Soldiers throw themselves on grenades to save their buddies.
If someone starts trying to kill me there is not a 100% probability he will succeed. If you try to kill me I become very dangerous to you. I am not at all passive when it comes to protecting myself or others. Your stereotype of those who do not hate is quite wrong.
Hate is unreasoning fear. (My definition.) Hate leads to stupid decisions. If you let yourself hate you eliminate all possibility of solving the underlying problem because you have lost the ability to think. That's why terrorists try to get you to hate them, so you'll do something stupid like invade some other nation or bomb innocent civilians (See Palestine.) Hate lets others manipulate you against your best interests. (See Dictators.)
To begin, that's "NO to POM" rather than "POM". :-)
The actions of the insane will probably always be unpredictable at least for the next fifty years or so I suppose. Therefore, we cannot look to therapy or to recognizing that a person is insane for prevention of the attempts to commit mass murder. We cannot make such crimes impossible.
But there is every reason to believe that we can greatly reduce the opportunity for such events and virtually eliminate the motivation for committing such crimes on the part of the sane. Interestingly, that can be brought about by more freedom, true freedom, as opposed to the false freedoms we claim today if we are lucky.
As I am sure you are aware, the computer has made possible considerable invasions of our privacy. In connection with such technological improvements as the miniature camera and microphone and wireless internet, it will not be long before all our actions and all our words will not only be "observed" by the computer system but recorded permanently. This computer observation is coming no matter what we do unless we give up technology and go back to horse and buggy days with no electricity. I am sure your imagination will tell you what use governments will make of this capacity. But it will not only be governments but corporations and other major institutions (churches for example) and even our neighbors who will be keeping an eye on us. So this is the near future (within 20 years) which is the context for solving this problem of mass murderers.
This observation will make it relatively easy to determine who commits mass murders but that does not solve the problem of preventing them. So let's examine the context in which mass murders take place.
Some mass murders are a series of single killings done over an extended period. The observations by computer will tend to prevent those by arrest of the murder after the first or second such killing. So we can, without any change in our approach, stop that kind of mass murder.
The mass murder of many people in a single event is the kind of event which requires a change in our way of doing things. But that kind of murder is much more difficult to arrange since it requires equipment in the form of weapons or supplies (such as explosives) or some vulnerable point (such as control of a large machine (airplane?)). In these cases, the cooperation of others (to some extent) is required. It is a rare person who can construct without any help from others some device which will kill even 20 people at one time. That is the crucial point where we can change things and make a significant difference.
At present, one can enter a store, present credentials, and purchase weapons whose design function is to kill large numbers of people quickly. One can purchase the materials necessary for making large amounts of explosives or of poison gasses. All these purchases are quite legal. If they were illegal they would still be not only possible but relatively easy. Illegal purchases are a huge business all over America.
What if we change things such that purchases of anything become the responsibility not only of the buyer but also the seller. What if the manufacturers and the distributors of weapons were held responsible for actions taken by those who possess those items? How would things be different? To begin with, the seller would be very interested in the character and background of the buyer. The seller would be reluctant to take chances. Those who manufacture weapons would be most reluctant to let them fall into the hands of anyone who could not keep them secure and who might sell them to just anyone.
In that situation, those who own weapons would be responsible if those weapons were stolen since they did not keep them secure. The security of weapons would increase and people would be likely to destroy the functionality of weapons rather than risk their use to kill or wound. Therefor there would be far fewer weapons available for the committing of such crimes. It would be more difficult to acquire weapons for immoral purposes.
When we combine the computer system with the holding of persons responsible, we have a situation in which there would still be errors made (people are only human) in the distribution of weapons but those errors would be far fewer.
Now that is the objective. How can it be brought about? It is obvious that with the nature of our current money ("POM") it is impossible to prevent people selling illegally. Therefore we must change the nature of our money. We must have a money which cannot be transferred from one party to another. We must have a money which comes into existence in one's account when it is earned, and which ceases to exist when spent. This eliminates the ability of the buyer to reward the seller for violating the law (or allowing immoral uses) regardless of what the goods or services are in question.
The seller will only earn more money by giving goods and services which are used for benefiting others, not for harming others. So if there is any suspicion at all, the seller is likely to deny the hopeful buyer. Now in order to hold the seller responsible for giving items to others, the seller must have complete property rights to that property (goods or service). In other words property must be completely private and individual. There can be no joint or communal ownership. There can be no government ownership. This means more freedom.
Note also, that the intrusion of computers and related technology into your life which will happen regardless of whether we make this money change or not. But with the change, no one can gain money by helping others to pry into your affairs. No government can pay anyone to spy on you. People who do control such technology can gain money by keeping your secrets safe from everyone else. Protecting your privacy can gain money for those who control the computers. Violating your privacy can cost them lots of potential income. Therefore, there is nothing to fear from the computer watching since the information will be used only to help you rather than harm you.
Naturally, your next question should be "how is such a money possible?" The answer to that is explained in detail at www.nopom.info.
This is all far more than you expected but I like thinking about such things.
(Final note: this will not solve the problem of mass murders completely, it will only reduce the opportunities for such events.)
You've released no pom the monster!
All that agent orange you spray around is giving me a headache...couldn't you have just made it simple, NAYPOM?
Note in the above how quickly the cleric jumped to defend Muslems, while the town mayor warned him (and the US troops) that death of children would bring sever retribution.
The cleric was a nut case, the mayor, well I'd be proud if our mayor acted like that.i
There are people right here on this site that would say "I am a (fill-in-religious-affiliation) first and an American second.
The mad dogs in this mess are both the radicals on the rampage, and the radicals rampaging against all of them. Fundamentalist Christians are at least as dangerous as fundamentalist Muslims.
Lets go back to that list Karl;
Two white guys and.......A hundred fundamentalist Muslims!
Ya right! Fundamentalist Christians are as dangerous! NOT! It just sounds good to you to say it! It is so politically correct...But so wrong!
Those on here want to complain about killing innocents in the war but yet, who bombed us first? They got just what they wanted and deserved.... they did awaken a sleeping giant... and they paid for it with their lives.... I lost an uncle in the bombing... he went down on a submarine. Nothing was left of him to bury... This bothered my father for many years... War is hell... and for those who dont like the way the US does business, then you are free to leave...
Two weeks after they were finally let out of the camps, they moved back to Japan till the day they died.