The Friendships of Men

I'll be interested in the responses you receive.

Me too.. Just stopping by.. 10!

Most of my cousins and family members are men. My father had 5 natural siblings ( and three step sisters) all of which but one was a boy. I have a funny story about that too. My Dad was 17 years older than his sister, and he was away a lot studying at the seminary. When told that her brother Bob was coming home for a visit, she replied "Not another brother!" I think I was mostly impressed by the cameraderie my Dad had with his brothers (although he was the most conservative politically of them all, and even then he wasnt that conservative). I learned a lot from how they treated each other, with respect and love. My Dad was lucky that he was friends with his brothers. I think they were mainly his friends anyway. I dont know if this helps, but this is one perspective.

I'm not a guy but am curious to see if any of them respond!

Gretchen, as the little sister of three older brothers, well I am not sure I want to comment. But it would be interesting if some of the guys do. I was thinking I would probably not "feature" anything in this group, but I just changed my mind. Thank you for sharing this with the Gather Non-Deleters Group!

I am aware of and have heard that men's relationships with other men is awkward at best. What I have found in America men seem to have a somewhat stand off sort of relationship. I was raised with a loving and demonstrative father and grands around who easily hugged and expressed emotions. I had five brothers and one sister who grew up in the same environment yet at least two of my brothers appear to have taken on the well known stereotype of men's relationship with other men.

I always had difficulty in relating to what I call surface relationships with other men. They readily talk about sports or something similar but rarely open up about emotions or in depth relationships. Many seem to find a level they remain comfortable with and never cross that line as if crossing it would cause great bodliy harm. the two brotherrs I mentioned both had horrible relationships with their first wives and when the end was at hand only then did I become aware of the situation. No opportunity to discuss, counsel or just share the misery they were experiencing. Both overtly place all the blame on the woman which I don't buy at all. It seems tey were stuck at a cross road which they would not allow themselves to participate in.

Even today they and a lot of other men seem to have an unrealistic view of relationships with either men or women and keep their emotions stuck at a non communitive level. To me that is unbelievable in that I find it easy to communicate emotions and feelings and try to always keep other's thoughts and emotions in mind. I have been chastised for being too open as a man as well as catering to my woman. I can only laugh in that if I don't cater to her and keep her concerns in mind why would we even be together? Its a no brainer to me.

I have had one real close male friendship but he died young from a heart ailment. Since then my closest friends are normally women. I have no attractioin to anyone who keeps up a false front in living and lives within a stereotypical frame work. My interaction with men daily finds one who has a warped view of how one should deal with a woman and often it is so off base I can tolerate it. Then again I find lots of young men raised primarily by women who seemed to have ingrained in their son's minds that women are only out to get you. To use you. This might be a warning but it should apply to everyone and not women only. We live in a multi faceted culture with far too many men not expressing themselves fully or leaving out too much to allow others to grasp their meaning. I don't like the idea of sharing with someone who harbors a negative general feeling about others.

I found men much different in African countries I've visited in that men share just as close as women do and it wouldn't be unsusal to find men embracing.

I have alway been one of the guys. Most of my closest friends throughout my more than 50 years have been male. Either I have known odd men, or men are nothing like most women portray them. In my opinion, (speaking in general here) men are more loyal (to one another and to the women in their lives) than women. They are more supportive, more honest, more willing to talk about things that matter to the world instead of what matters to them, and more likely to really care how I feel.

Interesting, Sandy.

I followed you here, and I find that you have written almost exactly what I would write.

The only thing I would add is that one of the reasons most of my friends have always been men is that men seem to avoid "small talk" and gossip, as do I.

Ann, were you close to your father, uncles, dad's friends etc growing up? I was, and wonder if learning to communicate with and trust men early might have something to do with the way we see them later.

Thanks everyone, this is really helping. I had posted the first couple chapters of the novel back over a year ago, called "Almighty Whispers in My Soul"-- which may change. These chapters are in a woman's point of view, but I will be alternating her point of view with her husband's and explore the friendship between Nate and Denny more. Here's the link in case anyone wants to peek

http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.jsp?articleId=281474976873881

no pressure

My father died when I was four so I grew up in a matriarchal household and my mother was the oldest daughter of 13 kids - the matriarch of her family the whole time. My 3 brothers and I stuck up for each other and worked together. For a several year period my oldest was the foreman, the next oldest was my partner and my twin was our laborer as we worked in the unionized (family) construction business in NYC. I know many men, but am only close to one or two, and my brothers, of course.
Most guys just don't know how to be more than superficial friends. But good friends would do anything for each other.

I recently went on a golf outing with male friends. My wife asked what we talked about. I had to think. We did not share any deep thoughts. The truth is we talked about "nothing". We made fun of each other.
We do not share as women do. We tease each other a lot. We do not share our deepest thoughts. That is reserved for your spouse.

I'm like Sandy in that most of my friends are male. I find the companionship is easier and talking with males is not at all like talking with women which is about feelings and gossip. My male friends often talk to me of things that are going on at home and what should they do about them. I tell them they should have these conversations with their wives. It's the only way to remain friends. But otherwise we have meaningful conversations about many topics and sometimes even come to conclusions.

You should check out the Murder by 4 blog. There is an interesting post on writing male characters. Here's the link:
(http://murderby4.blogspot.com/2008/07/ladies-how-do-you-write-mans-vice.html)

Thanks for the link-- that makes a lot of sense. Women characters (and women) are often more long winded than men. A lot depends on how decisive and anxious one is to get to the point.
I have had a handful of good male friends in my life, and I really cherish those memories, but things happened, unfortunately. Patricia, I absolutely agree marital issues are for the married people. Good policy.

My character, Nate, has his sensitive moments-- when he really needs to "be there", but he likes to tackle obstacles by either overcoming them quickly or accepting them or speaking his peace/piece.

Sandy,

I don't remember being close to any of my male relatives. I suspect that the reason I have mostly male friends is that I'm not very traditionally "feminine." Patricia said it well-- I'm not into conversations full of "feelings and gossip."

There goes my theory, Ann. I am feminine, but not particularly domestic. I enjoy conversations about feelings, especially trying to figure out why I feel the way I do and how that impacts the people and world around me.

We guys can be 'friendly' with a lot of other guys. No problem there. But we are very particular about who we consider a 'friend'. And most long term friendships will become very loyal. Outside of my family, I am very close to one other person. We've been friends for over thirty years. We don't speak often in those quiet tones that you would expect when dealing with deep issues but that's because we don't have to. When you have a friend like that, you know he's always going to be there. And he knows and expects the same of me.

Perhaps the biggest difference is that we really don't need to dissect things to feel that we're helping. Just knowing your friend is there and understands is more often than not, enough.

When you have a friend like that, you know he's always going to be there. And he knows and expects the same of me.

What a perfect description of friendship, Nick.

The general idea is . . . as crass as it sounds . . . "Bros before Hoes". I grew up in a male dominated world. We protect women and shelter them from reality. We don't act superior, it depends on the woman. My Grandmother (God bless her heart) had no idea how common people living together without benefit of marriage was. If it was a woman aware of reality . . . nobody would pretend. It wasn't lying . . . it was NOT volunteering or challenging them . . . unless they wanted to be challenged. Fiercely loyal, I have a few friends and we can talk about anything . . . safely. Attracted to the blonde grocer? Tell your bud! He won't approach the wife. He might (and I did) say . . . IDIOT! What the hell is wrong with you? We tease and are merciless with each other . . . but love that. From "Oooooh! Smell THIS sock!" (or fart) to theoretical conversations on Astro-Physics . . . the conversation can be anything. What woman appreciates the Three Stooges? And men know things women do not. For example . . . the fall back man. The man that maneuvers to be a woman's "friend" hoping for a chance to score with a woman when she's having issues. Very few men have friends who are women that they don't care to sleep with. Any woman with a male "friend" can verify this. Simply ask the man for sex. You'll see the truth of this. A man would rather be out with his buds than a woman he has NO CHANCE of EVER scoring with. Sad? Maybe. But true. Would I tell afriend's wife he was fooling around on her? NEVER. I might end the friendship though. Would I tell a male friend if I knew he was being cuckolded? Yep. Even if it ended the friendship. In almost every experience I have had with friend's infidelity, it was the woman straying. No wait! In every experience. Men are always always always there for their male friends. And I am ALWAYS there for mine . . . it's just the way I roll. Any male thinking differently is not one of my close friends.

Regards,
Doyle I <~~~~~

Men can behave just like women. I was at the gym the other day and I overheard a conversaion between two guys. One guy was telling the other that he was gonna tell his wife he had to work late so he could go out for drinks. Then the two of them started to critique another guys gym wear and body. They were getting very "catty". I turned to my friend and said they sound just like us .

Gretchen, you have started a very interesting discourse here. I was very close to my father. Most of my close friends have been men, some straight and others gay. I have no problem talking about feelings and emotions, but have to admit a boredom with "traditional" female topics, such as cooking, child care, decorating etc. I find it easier to communicate with men because their conversation is more geared to things of the mind, things that I find fascinating. Doyle, I have to beg to fiffer with you about something. I love The Three Stooges, more than once I have told Hubby how lucky he is that I am the perfect movie watching wife. I love action films and horror films as much as I love a good Jane Austen story. Just don't try to get me to sit through the "Marathon Man"!

Although, it was in a specialized environment, the most serious commitments I made as a young man were to other men and trust played a critical role in those commitments.

Generally speaking, I have since found that most men are at a disadvantage in relationship compared to women. Most women understand other women as well as a majority of men.

Most men, however, not only do not understand women but many don't even understand other men.

i can help you with this, but it will require more information.
i need to know which kind of men will be in your tale, you see.

people are not a mystery to me; nor is Emotion, and all of Its faces/phases.

if, perchance, you seek to pen a tale about soldiers...well, i was a soldier. (Ron B., above, could help you here as well.) -are they Artists?

oh, i know artistic men-- am one, actually--and could spill all day on it.
playboys?
i was a manwhore.

warrior-monks?
i've been a martial artist since the age of six. -in all things, though...i was (and am) a social creature. which means that i have a knack for opening doors marked VERBOTEN.

and walking right on in.

so: tell, and i will tell in turn.
Man is complicated; Man is simple.

okay?

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I grew up in a patriarchal family full of men and boys (my mom was around also). I relate to men very well compared to many other women (I'm not talking romance here). I have found that a friendship between two men is very difficult to break to the point of bridge burning. Only a few events are capable of doing this to a true male to male friendship. However, in my experience, it sadly often takes less of many more things to absolutely crush and destroy a friendship between two women. I have been hurt by many women/girls I trusted in the past and have had many true and lasting platonic male friendships. I am only now allowing myself to open my heart to the friendship (close and true) of women. I have female friends, but I have kept them superficial because of the past.