Ah, but John, the end of all learning is enlightenment. You can't be enlightened without learning first. Before the Buddha sat meditating under the Bo Tree, he spent a lifetime learning and doing. Then he sat under the tree and contemplated what he learned, and enlightenment came.
Actually according to the Zen I've learned, they are. With this in mind, the choice becomes simple for most men: Should I become a couch potato or not?
Some would say that you are talking of learning with a small "L" and that Enlightenment is always a shortcut/sudden realization. They would further say you are presented with opportunities to be enlightened every moment. It just takes a long time for most to seize that moment.
Learning something does not mean you appreciate or understand it. Enlightenment is understanding the purpose of something but not necessarily understanding how that purpose comes about.
I do not see 'Enlightenment is always a shortcut/sudden realization.' It is truly a search of one's soul. I realize your answer was just a manner of speech for a specific situation.
To become an enlightened couch potato, a man must be quite knowledgeable about the following TV shows. (Shown in descending order of level mastery).
10. Carol Burnette (Tim Conway skits only). 09. Hogan's Heroes 08. Star Trek 07. According To Jim 06. Monty Python 05. Green Acres 04. Dr. Who 03. Mr. Ed 02. Keeping Up Appearances 01. Red Green
I have never become aware of anything, acquired knowledge or committed to memory by observation or information through experience, study or being taught and therefor freed from ignorance and misinformation so I have so I don't have full comprehension of the problem.
There's bad news and good news if you're bound and determined to find the key to enlightenment: The bad news is there is no such key; The good news is -- it's been left unlocked.
I find that there are people who learn book knowledge and are far from enlightened. Just as I have known people who are very enlightened without the book knowledge. My quest is to be both. It's like knowledge without wisdom is dangerous. Wisdom without knowledge is often wasted. Both need each other for a fulfilled life. Thanks for sharing and peace.
I see I'm not the only one who has commented about them being the same. I usually try to respond to these before reading the comments. I've loved the comments and responses, as always.
You wrote in your comment to another above that "Some would say that you are talking of learning with a small "L" and that Enlightenment is always a shortcut/sudden realization. They would further say you are presented with opportunities to be enlightened every moment. It just takes a long time for most to seize that moment." I, too, have heard this, but I disagree in its simplicity in 3-D terms. I do believe that when one is ready that Enlightenment can come in any moment. But if one is not ready, through experience (thus learning), then it is not understood and the moment passes through the receiver without their grasping it.
And, I'm wordy tonight. A comment to William's "Of course I have attained the highest level of coach potato enlightenment and people notice because I look like a Bartlet pear. " I believe that is what Buddha looks like. Think he 'foresaw' modern day television, and thus became enlightened!!???
Interesting...I think I am being enlightened every day and I am learning something about the experiences that come with that. Most of the things seem to involve relationships and that I am finding it hard to trust people...especially men...no offense. I find that the words that come from some of them are so sugar coated that it makes it hard to believe what is truth and what is just said to keep them in control. I am still learning what to trust and believe and what not to...sad thing is, it is hard to tell the difference most of the time.
Tanya, It has been documented and I believe there's a clip on Youtube that shows Buddha was aware of TV. He was lucky because he was born with LCD crystals in his eyes.
Knowledge: a curse, yet wisdom far worse. So mourn not what you miss for ignorance so bliss. The thoughts one learns at life's very start covet like jewels, they're the thoughts of your heart.
Philosophers and Ploughmen Each must know his part To sow a new mentality Closer to the Heart (peart)
(More D B from earlier) "and I stutter when I write."
I haven't checked the Yellow Pages, but I live in Marin County and I can pretty much assure you that we have dedicated professionals who can work on that problem.
"There's bad news and good news if you're bound and determined to find the key to enlightenment: The bad news is there is no such key; The good news is -- it's been left unlocked."
Willa, that it is brilliant statement that cuts to the core of this Byte.
Tanya, when people disagree with simplicity because it's too easy, they are often forgetting that it is also elegant.
You do have to be aware to capture the moment and in that instant you have to conquer the fear and take the leap. (There is a Byte on this coming at some point)
As far as Buddha is concerned, he is the couch potato idol and physical role model.
L H, as you can see there are different interpretations here of enlightenment — what it is and the path there. This is what we are exploring in this thread.
All comments have an aspect of truth to them, including yours of "I thought Enlightenment, was a spiritual tranquility. That meant you had learned."
What is true for you depends not so much on the words but the context in which you are hearing them.
we have dedicated professionals who can work on that problem.
Are we talking short sharp shocks or a full frontal lobe lobotomy?
You raise the blade, you make the change You re-arrange me 'til I'm sane. You lock the door And throw away the key There's someone in my head but it's not me. (waters)
John this is a moot point and has been debated for over a thousand years. For is enlightenment something gained after years of intense preparation or it is something that can be realized by all with no formal training? The various sects of Buddhism have been arguing this point for many years, somehow I don't think we will be enlightenment by the end of this post.
The various sects of Buddhism who have been arguing this point for many years will still be arguing it 1,000 years from now.
It is the "how many angels fit on the head of a pin" trap. Through it we cleverly avoid facing ourselves. To coin a new term, it is "spiritual denial."
Reminds me of the guy who sells everything and spends all his money searching for a guru whom he finally finds in a snow covered cave after climbing 14,000 feet through a blizzard.
He kneels and ask for the secret of life.
"The guru responds, "Life is a river."
"That's it?" the man screamed. "After all this. 'Life's a river."
Sorry so late, had to be in Austin for a seminar M & T. Now I'll comment. And disagree.
My enlightment comes from a divine source (for instance, most of my poems come to me all at once, I literally see the entire poem as soon as I come up with the first line. So enlightment, undermy def, is easy. It just happens.
Learning, now that's a little tougher; whether it be school learning or real world (hard knocks) learning. Of course, the trade-off here is: Not Learning is even tougher.
About the seminar. The first class, the first question (which I had the opportunity to pose) was given an answer of: "The program does not incoprorate that item at present but we will list among potential upgrades".
My boss told each of us to take a list of the most important, most relevent questions to ask. Four of the seven of us that attended had my question as #1. After that first answer, we kind of had the sense that the rest of the seminar was going to be much immaterial.
Damn, John, it took both of my brain cells to respond to #12, now I've got to figure out what the hell is enlightenment. If it is religious, then I'd say, it is analogous to learning, and you are left with only one choice.
What if there was another choice? What if the key to a fulfilling life is to hook up with a really great person, a spouse. I did that.
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I wonder if enlightenment refers to getting hit over the head?!!! lol
If you capitalize the first letter of each, they are the same.
There are no shortcuts to enlightenment.
With this in mind, the choice becomes simple for most men: Should I become a couch potato or not?
Some would say that you are talking of learning with a small "L" and that Enlightenment is always a shortcut/sudden realization. They would further say you are presented with opportunities to be enlightened every moment. It just takes a long time for most to seize that moment.
education that results in understanding and the spread of knowledge
Sounds like learning to me.
On the second point, William, I assume you are speaking of an enlightened couch potato.
More like, "Aha! I Understand."
I realize your answer was just a manner of speech for a specific situation.
Some would say that with true enlightenment, the purpose of something would be a non-question.
It will be interesting to explore those different interpretations in this thread.
In the end, they all lead to the same point.
10. Carol Burnette (Tim Conway skits only).
09. Hogan's Heroes
08. Star Trek
07. According To Jim
06. Monty Python
05. Green Acres
04. Dr. Who
03. Mr. Ed
02. Keeping Up Appearances
01. Red Green
So I choose #3.
The bad news is there is no such key;
The good news is -- it's been left unlocked.
Yippeee!
You wrote in your comment to another above that "Some would say that you are talking of learning with a small "L" and that Enlightenment is always a shortcut/sudden realization. They would further say you are presented with opportunities to be enlightened every moment. It just takes a long time for most to seize that moment." I, too, have heard this, but I disagree in its simplicity in 3-D terms. I do believe that when one is ready that Enlightenment can come in any moment. But if one is not ready, through experience (thus learning), then it is not understood and the moment passes through the receiver without their grasping it.
And, I'm wordy tonight. A comment to William's "Of course I have attained the highest level of coach potato enlightenment and people notice because I look like a Bartlet pear. " I believe that is what Buddha looks like. Think he 'foresaw' modern day television, and thus became enlightened!!???
...DATELINE9/11
Gather Broadcasting: Have it your way
It is actually easy, but we make it hard because that makes it more important and worthy of striving for.
William, I am almost there! What the heck is "Red Green?"
(PS the pear disquise is a clever ruse.)
Jerri, you were expecting ... ?
Knowledge: a curse, yet wisdom far worse. So mourn not what you miss for ignorance so bliss. The thoughts one learns at life's very start covet like jewels, they're the thoughts of your heart.
Philosophers and Ploughmen
Each must know his part
To sow a new mentality
Closer to the Heart
(peart)
Oooh, D B. a clever statement.
You are soooo close.
Thanks you for the beautiful quote.
I love "The thoughts one learns at life's very start covet like jewels, they're the thoughts of your heart." So true.
"and I stutter when I write."
I haven't checked the Yellow Pages, but I live in Marin County and I can pretty much assure you that we have dedicated professionals who can work on that problem.
No question it's unusual, William.
The bad news is there is no such key;
The good news is -- it's been left unlocked."
Willa, that it is brilliant statement that cuts to the core of this Byte.
Thank you.
Tanya, to me learning is Knowledge and enlightenment is Knowing. Different faces to the same coin ... or are they?
I like your approach, Kimber.
You do have to be aware to capture the moment and in that instant you have to conquer the fear and take the leap. (There is a Byte on this coming at some point)
As far as Buddha is concerned, he is the couch potato idol and physical role model.
Karen, most times they don't know either. Maybe you can trust that they are people rather than what they say.
That's because cable was free in those days, William.
All comments have an aspect of truth to them, including yours of "I thought Enlightenment, was a spiritual tranquility. That meant you had learned."
What is true for you depends not so much on the words but the context in which you are hearing them.
One would think so, Arleen .. and Kimber has an important point.
There will be future Bytes on the differences between Knowledge and Knowing.
Are we talking short sharp shocks or a full frontal lobe lobotomy?
You raise the blade, you make the change
You re-arrange me 'til I'm sane.
You lock the door
And throw away the key
There's someone in my head but it's not me.
(waters)
“Good judgment,” says the guru.
“But oh wise guru,” says the man, “how do I achieve good judgment?”
“Bad judgment,” says the guru.”
WHOOOPS! Another "moment" whizzed by while we were trying to describe it. :)
It is the "how many angels fit on the head of a pin" trap. Through it we cleverly avoid facing ourselves. To coin a new term, it is "spiritual denial."
But there is a lot of incense and chanting.
Reminds me of the guy who sells everything and spends all his money searching for a guru whom he finally finds in a snow covered cave after climbing 14,000 feet through a blizzard.
He kneels and ask for the secret of life.
"The guru responds, "Life is a river."
"That's it?" the man screamed. "After all this. 'Life's a river."
The guru thought and said, "Life ain't a river?"
My enlightment comes from a divine source (for instance, most of my poems come to me all at once, I literally see the entire poem as soon as I come up with the first line. So enlightment, undermy def, is easy. It just happens.
Learning, now that's a little tougher; whether it be school learning or real world (hard knocks) learning. Of course, the trade-off here is: Not Learning is even tougher.
My boss told each of us to take a list of the most important, most relevent questions to ask. Four of the seven of us that attended had my question as #1. After that first answer, we kind of had the sense that the rest of the seminar was going to be much immaterial.
What if there was another choice? What if the key to a fulfilling life is to hook up with a really great person, a spouse. I did that.
Rest easy
The other part you can only do on your own.
But I would suggest that the example you give of your poetry is inspiration and that comes from you and your accumulated experiences.
Of course, there's always the Muse ...
As you've probably noted, over here there's a lot of insentient chatting
Just something to ponder.
(No one said these were easy. Otherwise you'd just have to swallow instead of byte :)
I may have just knocked this column outa the 'G' section.
Another is one lives an aware life and finds oneself there.