Sexy Question of the Day

A couple of quick fanny whacks is deffinately not child abuse.  My child will probably be spanked, if what they do is bad enough to warrent a spanking.

I agree.  I believe that Kate defended her stance by saying that the child had already been forewarned against a certain behaviour several times before she got the swats.  I hardly consider that abuse.

 I did not spank my child, Ester, because we were what one would call abused today, and I did not wish to continue the ways of old. A Spanking should be just that, a whack or two on the butt. Never in the face, near the ears, etc. grabbing an arm to do the whack is a big NO, as it could wrench the arm out of socket. If I saw anything more than that couple of whacks in public, I would really say Something to the parent, and it wouldn't be nice................

I hear you Penni.  Loud and clear.  Now as I don't have children and I love my precious nieces and nephews to pieces, I don't condone spanking either but see nothing wrong with a couple of swats on the butt.  Whenever one of the kids has gotten the swats, the swat didn't hurt but the child usually got their feelings hurt because they never get spanked to begin with.  I think that it is more of a way to get a child's attention.

Some people and Parents do go overboard.  I have seen it and I feel horrible whenever I have seen it.  I would not be nice if I saw this sort of thing in public either.  What Kate did was nothing overboard in my humble opinion.

I think that a lot of what is wrong with our society and chlldren today is that they never got a swift swat on the butt for their bad behaviour and as a consequence everyone else must suffer.

"Do you think a swift swat on the butt is a reason to call a parent a child abuser?"

Absolutely not. At the time I grew up (in the '80's), it was not a reason then. Why is it such a reason now???

I don't think it is a reason either Eric but there are laws now in some states that threaten to put parents in jail for spanking their kids.  That is why my Aunt has delinquints in her family because her kids would threaten to call the police on her and report her for child abuse.  She had no recourse so she ended up not spanking the kids and now three of them are the worst of the worst out there.  One has even been in the penitentiary for four years and is on her way back again. 

If only she had gotten those swift swats on the butt...

Esther, that was a very powerful story! Swats on the butt are probably what is needed to instill respect for authority, and moreover, the rule of law. I say probably because, honestly, I am not a parent. I have said a lot of things on this site, but one thing I will NOT do is moralize about how to raise children. I got my fair share of swats on the butt, but I still managed to become a self-sufficient and law abiding individual. Of course, the line must be drawn somewhere, and I think Nurse Nancy S. and Penni D. hit it, especially since Nancy's adult children turned out okay.

I survived swats on thebutt.Mymother was not a child abuser.

My grown children survived swats on the butt. I am not a child abuser.

Let's get those that mentally chastise and berate their kids, those that leave them unattended for hours while the parent goes and parties, those that beat and batter their children so that the child needs medical care, those that rape or sexually molest their children, those that pimp out their preteen daughters, those that lock their children in closets or basements because the child was noisy, those that give alcohol and drugs to their children, those that hate their children...that is who the media needs to drag through the mud.

I agree with you wholeheartedly.  I think we got swats too as little children but never had to have spankings because we had a strict military man for a Dad.

I do think that the media should go after all of those people who give parenting a bad name that you mentioned.  Sorry, sorry people who have no business having children in the first place.

Thanks Nancy!

 Not to say I never, ever did, Es... three times, but with dangerous stunts, like running out in the road. I was scared of what kind of parent I would be, for my sister used to even knock her kids down and pull their hair, slap their faces...it was SCAREY!!

Penni you're a sweetheart and doubt that you could hurt a fly!

I know people like your sister.  I have an aunt like that and watching her with her children was nothing nice.

Because of my childhood, I rarely spanked my kids. I wanted to break the cycle of abuse. If her spanking the child caused a red mark that lasted or a bruise, yes that is child abuse. You don't have to use a paddle to do that either. It's not the act itself that is abuse, it is the result of that act.

I know a girl who was spanked by her stepfather and went to school and showed her bottom to the school nurse. It was properly dealt with. Family services was alerted and he had to go to the classes. Her mother was so affected by this she came to me with the paddle she used and asked me to get rid of it for her.  She had no idea that what she was doing with the paddle was wrong.

The girl  had Add. I caught her jumping up and down on her mother's van in the parking lot. Fearing she would fall on the pavement I told her how dangerous it was and to get down. She got nasty and gave me some bs that she had "permission" from her Mom. I went up to her Mother's apartment and let her know so she could deal with it.

I'll be honest, I can understand why they got so frustrated with this child. She was friends with my daughter and there was some big trouble over lies she told about my daughter accusing her of things she did not do.  She later recanted her story when they found out she did whatever it was.

But she did have some real issues and did not deserve to be smacked so hard on her bottom.

It is leaving marks or bruises that makes a spanking into an act of abuse.

I know that there must be plenty of children out there who are difficult or who are problem children but there is still no excuse for beatings.  I don't condone beatings as I do not condone violence of any type.  I would imagine that some parents flip out and just start hitting without thinking of how they may be hurting the child or children.  These new laws were meant to protect children from child abusers but somehow along the way the laws have been misused as so many other laws have.

I do think that there does come a point when a swift swat on the butt will be the only thing that gets the childs attention but that only after other more sane methods of parenting have run their course.

I certainly am no child care expert as I neither a child psychiatrist nor a parent but do know enough from baby sitting and from watching and reading to know what is right and what isn't.

Too bad about your daughters child.  I wish that there weren't children that are still being abused even with these laws being enacted but I would be living in la la land if I believed that.

No, a few swats on the fanny will sometimes get the point across a lot better than telling an unruly child(brat, in this case) "no", particularly when they engage in dangerous situations. I once swatted my son , at age 6, when he found a dollar on the sidewalk and decided to walk to the store, a block away. I was scared senseless, and it could have easily turned into something tragic.

The episode with your child at age six probably scared him more after the swats on the butt than had you just spoken something to him.  Sometimes it hurts their feelings to know that you never spank them and then must resort to them in certain circumstances.

No that's not abuse...my daughter received a few swats on the butt when it was necessary to get her attention when she was really little. You can't really reason with a child under 6. By then they can make a conscious decision.

Some kids over 6 cannot be reasoned with EASILY either.  My daughter is ADHD and when she is unmedicated you have to use tactics you would use with a 2 or 3 year old like redirecting their attention to something else.  She is fine when she is medicated but lately at summer camp they have been swimming alot and the med patch she wears comes off early b/c of the water.  Then the evenings are all disrupted as she cannot control herself.  IT takes a lot of patience and love and kindness to be a parent and firmness as well.    We work closely with her behavioral counselor and her med doc (psychiatrist) to come up with strategies to handle the behavior and set her on the right path without damaging her self esteem as she is phsyically unable to control herself.  Her meds wear off in the evenings anyways just on swim days they have already wore off by the time she gets home!! LOL  I hate it that things are such a struggle for her in times like these but I know she wants to behave because while she is misbehaving it makes her cry because she can't stop herself.  What I do is distract her to doing something else.  I will cuddle her and give her attention until the crying stops then give her a specific task or project to work on while I finish getting supper ready.  FOR INSTANCE - last night to settle her down I got her to quit crying then I asked her to read me part of one of her library books because I really want to know what happens.  Then while she was reading I would exaggerate my reactions a little to keep her interested in doing it because it was garnering attention - sort of like you would do with a much smaller child.  She then settled enough to eat supper - TWO HELPINGS and then she took her nighttime med and went to sleep.  Before sleep she hugged me and kissed me and thanked me for "being a good mommy who loves her". 

Elizabeth ~ Your daughter received a few swats on her butt before and she is completely normal with nothing detrimental or damaging ever having happened to her right? 

That psychiatrist on television is nuts!

Kimber ~ You sound like a patient, loving and very understanding Mom!  There should be others who can learn from Mom's like you!

Thanks Esther.  I try!  Sometimes it is really hard and I have to constantly remind myself to do the things her therapist recommends and not give in to temptation to just start screaming!  We are making progress though - she knows her limits.

You deserve it hon! ;)

You mentioned that there are some kids who will get their parents arrested for spanking them and there are kids out there who will also lie to the authorities and tell them that their parents spanked them.  I know because my cousin's eleven year old daughter got mad at her mother for taking some things away for punishment and she went to school the next day and reported her Mom for child abuse.  The detectives went to the school and then waited for my cousin to get home and took over the swat team to arrest her.  Believe it!  She just got out of jail for something that she never did and the police arrested her without any investigation just on the word of an eleven year old girl!!  Now if that doesn't suck!!

Too bad your Mom spanked you.  I hope that it wasn't too bad. ;(

That is horrible!!  Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty - almost makes you want to videotape everything that goes on in your house for protection!!!!!!!

I too know this can happen when my oldest who is turning 18 in oct was 11 she decided she wanted to do what she wanted she turned around and told social services that I was abusing her the kicker with this I was an abused child so I never went that route she might of got spanked twice in her life and I had just cause but they took her word over any doubt I had shrinks to contradict her story their own cops were backing me because of her ongoing reports of her running away in the night all it took was one child accusation they took her then and she never came back again it did not take long and they made her a monster I do not say that mean like but there attitude was she was never responsible for anything if she wanted to destroy a room let her if she wanted to cut off another childs hair let them

I will know why this happened they have had a confession of her own doing as well as telling me they know it not true charges were never filed and yet I permentatky have that hanging over my head so I know all it takes is a child to say it and they have people in the schools shoving it down thier throats that we do not have the right to tell them no we do not have the right to abuse them but we also have a duty to teach them right from wrong sadly I never accomplished that with my oldest but on a good note my two youngest are very happy and adjusted so all is not lost

I don't believe that swatting a child's bottom is abuse as long as it is being done to get the child's attention or stop a negative or dangerous behavior.  IF IT IS BEING done out of ANGER or to harm the child then yes it is abuse.  IF it leaves a mark it is abuse.  I believe in time outs and other forms of discipline and reserve spanking for when it is something truly serious.  FOR INSTANCE when Lily was two we kept tellingher to stay away from Grandma's glass curio cabinet.  She could look at it all she wanted but was not supposed to touch it.  We explained it could fall over onto her and we did not want her hurt.  She KNEW this.  We repeated it often.  ONE DAY she decided she wanted to try to climb up it so I grabbed her, pulled her to safety and gave her a few quick swats and told her - that is NOT OKAY!!! IT is DANGEROUS.  She never did it again.  I didn't hurt her - she was wearing a diaper and they were LIGHT swats but they startled her enough to get her attention!!!!!

I think that a lot of parents act out in anger and have problems following through when their children misbehave.  One time the child will misbehave and nothing gets done to correct them and then the next day the Mom or Dad is having a bad day and takes it out on the child.  That IS abuse.

I understand completely your form of correcting your child or children and am in full accord with your methods.  You are one sharp cookie!

I agree with you and will take it one step further - the children see Mom and Dad getting upset for things that didn't upset them before and it confuses them.  When the parent acts in anger the child LEARNS that behavior and acts out right back.  It is a vicious cycle.  I have found the quickest way to get my kid to behave is to get down on her level - either sit or kneel and look her in the eyes and quietly tell her that what she is doing is NOT OKAY and ask her to explain herself / reasons etc. and also ask her what she thinks she can do to improve the behavior and then when she gets better I thank her.

Absolutely not. Its because people don't discipline at all these days is the reason why we have so much crime in our cities (in my opinion).  Kids are allowed to do whatever they want at home and get away with it so therefore they take it to the streets and think they can get away with it.

In Texas the principal can still spank in the schools.  Of course the parents have to sign a waiver saying they can but still.  I spank but I would never allow someone else to do it for me.  Though my child does think that if she bahaves badly at school the principal can swat her. She even told me a couple of months ago so and so got whooped at school today mom. 

You are so right about the parents who fail to discipline their children.  That is right what you say about why we have the crime wave with teens that we have now. 

If you lived in my area you could see the place that keeps children who have gotten in trouble with the law.  It has been enlarged about three times since it first opened just a few short years ago just to tell you how bad this situation has gotten.

I wish all of the country had the principals giving children paddlings for misbehaviour and I know I will be booed out of the ball park for this one but the kids don't respect their peers and certainly not their teachers.  You should see what goes on in middle schools with the kids these days...

If the child is misbehaving, I say:

First, a swat on the butt; if that doesn't work

Second, a knife to the heart; if that doesn't work

Third, a bullet to the brain; and if that doesn't work

Then a public hanging.

A child must learn right from wrong.   (I keed, I keed, I'm a keeder)

And boy what a keeder you are David!! ;p

Hell, when I was growing up, I got swats to the head, beat with whatever was handy, kicked, knocked down and more...leaving welts, cuts and bruises...and none of that was ever called child abuse.  I survived.  Today, look at a child cross-eyed and the protective unit from Social Services is called.  I'm single with no children.  If I were to swat a child today, I'd have to call DSS and report myself...and the child had better hope I don't kill them before a case worker shows up.

Rob --- you crack me up!  Please don't call DSS on yourself --- they may not believe you!  LOL

If any parent had to put up with what I put mine through, not spanking would be child abuse.

Nope, not child abuse in my book.  Heck I used to get a belt spanking if I disobeyed.  You bet I toed the line so to speak!  I got spanked all the way up until 16 years old!  I am not condoning belt spankings now nor spanking teens.  But I would make my 16 year old life miserable if needed (strip the room bare, no electronics, no telephones, etc...)

That is exactly why today's new generation is so screwed up. No discipline has created a generation of whiners, bratty behavior and self absorbed Americans.  I don't watch the show and never have, but from I read about the incident it was not child abuse. It was more of Kate ticked off that the child was taking away the spot light from her.

I totally agree with you...some kids nowadays are horrible....they need some kind of discpline.

I think it is ridiculous how overboard people can go with this.  A whack or two on the bottom is NOT child abuse...nor is it detrimental to the child.  Beating a child with a stick is child abuse.  Bruising a child is child abuse.  Burning a child is child abuse.  Calling a child names is child abuse.  It has gotten to the point where parents are afraid to discipline their own children for fear of being arrested.

When my children were small, I was not a spanker.  However, I had no problem with giving them a quick swat on the bottom or on the hand in order to teach them not to touch hot things or run out into traffic.  My husband spanked them a couple of times with his hand.  My children will all tell you that they are not psychologically damaged from these things.  They are bright, intelligent and successful.  So many kids these days have absolutely no boundaries.  They have no discipline in their lives because they were never taught these things.  They have grown up where in homes where they have been catered to and spoiled.  They show such a lack of respect for any kind of authority.  Kids in schools will curse the teachers out or threaten them without a second thought.  Its sad....

"Beating a child with a stick is child abuse."  How about a ruler?

My son was really giving his mom a hard time on day while she was shopping in a Mall.  She just stepped into Woolworth's, selected a ruler from the schools supply section, whacked him right there in the store, paid for the ruler and stepped out.

He never gave any trouble for the rest of the day.

I don't believe a swat on the behind is child abuse.  Sadly our society has become so warped in its thinking that even a swat can lead to Social Services being called.  My older children have a father who taught them they could get away with anything if they cried abuse.  Social Services became involved in our lives and we became afraid to even discipline our kids.  We even got in trouble for making one of our daughters do school work after school (she refused to do any work in school).  I look at those daughters today and know that part of the reason they have tremendous issues today stems from the lack of discipline.

Hind-sight is always 20:20.  If you had thought about it, you could have promised them a vacation in Jamaica and sorted them out.  Spankings are not illegal here.

Glad I don't live there.  If I had to fight with Social Services to discipline my child, the Government would be forced to take them away from me.  I would not be putting up with any child being disobedient, rebellious or contemptuous.

". . . swift swat on the butt . . ." is no reason to call a parent a "child abuser".  I've had more than a few myself and delivered a few on the butt or palm of a hand.  Get's the message accross; can save the child's life.

If "Don't put that wire into the wall plug." doesn't work, a swift whack on the butt does.

Gotta tell you this:

THere is a story of a Jamaican parent having trouble with a rebellious son.  Time outs did not work, neither groundings and loss of privilages only made him more defiant.

They started to discuss plans to visit grandma in jamaica.  Of course, he's delighted.  They packed enough for a one week visit, boarded the plane and had a lovely journey with the son eager and delighted about visiting grandma.

As soon as they cleared customs, while still in the terminal building, the spanking started and continued until they got into the car to take them to grandma.

So now, whenever he starts acting up, they just promise him a trip to Jamaica :-D)

There is nothing wrong with a few spanking.   Good post Esther.

this poor woman is so out numbered  8 to 1 ! Spankings were rare with my boys I would always reason with them. I will admit a swat on the rump was done out of anger.

BTW In the State of Washington a swat on the but with the hand by a parent ( not step patent ) is not considered abuse. As long as it doesn't leave a mark. But in this state I can think of at least 2 examples where children died because they were either returned to an abusive home or nothing was done. One is missing and has been for years. Not a very good record for the kids that really truly need help !

I worked in Child care for 6 years, and I could almost always point out the kids that have never been swatted. I do not tolerate abuse, but logical consequences can only go so far. what is the logical consequence of a kid running into the road? getting hit by a car, um, no thanks. Spanking should not be the first thing you do, and it should be limited. I always kept a rule that I didn't discipline my kids when I was still angry. I gave myself a timeout. If I could not calmly tell the child what they did wrong, and why they were receiving this punishment, I would have them sit on their bed until I was able to handle the situation. It is when we let our fear or anger control the situation that it can become dangerous.

A swat or two on the butt is not child abuse. Heck with eight kids you'd have to be a saint to never lose your cool.

The tabloids probably do more damage to poor Kate - she has to deal with a lot. If you never spank your child don't be surprised if you create a monster that you cannot control by the time they're six.

a spank on the butt is not abuse - if she was randomly hitting the child about ther body and head then yes.

I agree.

a spank on the butt is not abusebut i personally do not hit period, if I get to a point where I have to hit my child maybe I am the one making mistakes not him

Discipline for my kids meant placement in a small wooden box just outside the back door next to the outhouse for several days. It prevented relapses, cured growth and the feeding that accompanies it and allowed for quiet evenings. In a nutshell, it worked!

not one thing wrong with a spanking.........i know i sure got my share of them..... i was not too good at minding..... i was walking to my own drummer....when i would get a spanking no way was i going to cry.....lol....my mother would say....cry or i am going to give you some more......nope, not gonna........then if i did break down and cry it was shut up that crying or i will give you some more...... no way to win.....lol......my g'mother did not believe in spanking in anger so she would say...... you are going to get a spanking for that today....she would let us stew ovet it for hours.....she had one of those hairbrushes that had a big flat head .....at some point during the day she would say.....go lay across my bed......uh oh......it sure gave you some time to think about the deed you had done.....lol.........my children were spanked..... but as for my g'son...... i kinda sorta tapped his little butt once.....lol lol lol....it is way different with g'children......

A few swift swats on the bum is okay. As long as the parent doesn't look like they are doing it in anger or with full force. If a parents that anger they need to walk away and count to Ten. Even allow the child to scream an cry if need be first.