Is our world on a collision course with evil, traversing a road to the extinction of the human race?
One only needs to read the newspaper or turn on the television to find that negativity dominates the landscape. It would be refreshing, to say the least, if there were a news program that focused on all the good things people do every day where we could be inspired by their contributions to the advancement of our civilization and humankind. But, I'm told that nobody would watch - would you?
With nuclear, biological, and chemical weapons in the hands of some fanatics, how long do you think it will take before an event of catastrophic proportions is unleashed; releasing a black death like no other the world has ever seen, along with untold repercussions, mutations on multiple levels, and their short and long term consequences?
In the last decade alone, I've read that there have been over 20 new diseases and counting. How is it that so many new diseases are being formed? Any one of these diseases or viruses could turn into an epidemic, or worse, pandemic that could kill millions of people. Imagine the series of inevitable events that would follow a pandemic or nuclear exchange. Economies of the world would crumble to a halt resulting in famine and more deaths with expediential fervor. It would give new meaning to the phrase, "Survival of the Fittest."
It doesn't seem enough that natural disasters have been increasing at an alarming rate. No, some humans are trying to take chaos, suffering, and mayhem to another level with their continued terrorist activities. But even that isn't enough. These mentally deranged, criminally sick people won't be happy until they also acquire nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons. But, to what end? During the last days of WW II, the entire world witnessed the potential of what such a diabolical exchange would surely be. Now with thousands of nuclear bombs poised for action, all it would take is one fanatic entity to push a button, or explode a dirty bomb, unleashing the beast and a chain reaction unimaginable to some future result; with our survival less than certain.
The toxins and chemicals in our air, water, and food; along with the processing of our foods have been going on for decades. What are the results of all these chemicals introduced into the environment; and what have all of these manipulations of nature done and continue to do to our health and DNA?
As if that isn't enough, people take prescription and/or illegal drugs to cope with or escape reality, or to simply try to cure something that might have been avoided all together had we not challenged nature in the first place.
20th century ingenuity, invention, innovation, and creativity, have benefited all of mankind into the 21st century, but not without also creating problems like global warming, pollution, and diseases, etc.
We find ourselves surrounded with perversions, moral degradation, and dangerous criminal mental illnesses wandering the streets; a lack of character and distortions of the truth where people manipulate it for their own self-serving purposes. The media only fuels the fear, preying on our fears.
On the other hand there are millions of people, who every day of their lives, are dedicated to making our world a better place to live in, even while under the constant shadow of our potential extinction where all of us are bombarded with negativity every single day. I find it interesting and curious, even incredulous that we're NOT instead pleasantly showered with people's high achievements and the hard work and dedication it took them to get there.
Do you think we could reverse this long standing trend of negative poisons by giving recognition, importance, and praise to the good and righteous among us? Do you think this would have a positive impact on all of our lives?
Do you think people can make a difference, or do you think World War III is inevitable?
The Internet could provide a forum for possible solutions, empowering large numbers of people that collectively could positively influence the powers that be. From the chaotic world events seemly at our doorstep, to our own negative intrusions disrupting our individual lives, can we use the Internet to solve some of these problems by Gather-ing up workable solutions? Maybe Gather could create an open (none membership) world meeting place; a meeting of the minds for the world to seek solutions to the problems that will inevitably effect us all.
Do you think positive thinking and its uplifting influences' impact our lives resulting in raising us up into the light, in contrast to the negative heaviness that drags us down into the darkness?
Imagine millions of Internet voices and petitions making a difference for a better world.
Simon T.
http://www.littluns.net/
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Comments: 90
In the greater spiritual picture that includes God and all subsequent creation and life forms, on and in many dimensions and realms, our earth world physical life has in fact been subverted by evil ... it hides in the shadows using it's wealth to pull the strings of politicians and even religious heads of those hierarchies also.
When you get right down to the amount of secretive disinformation being passed down to us all from those places, for the reasons of control, and the actual ignorance we have, of the truly divine spiritual help that is available to each of us on a personal INternal basis through our own now mistrusted INtuitions ... in comparison, this realm is in fact Hellish" in comparison to what it could and should be ...
It is the absence of the Light of Love in people that allows the Darkness of Fear to overtake our minds ... in the minds of our most wealthy, most intelligent, that have that wealth, there is a dread, seen as the ever increasing populations and poverty all around the world which threatens their life styles in a very fearful way ... only, they have the control of the wealth that makes it all relatively manageable for them, at least better than than the multitudes have it.
The fear makes them greedy because they see wealth as their only means to survive, that has always worked best for the Godless ... dualistic winners/losers (+/-).
Then for a few there is the option of a Spiritual relationship with God, where the Spirit (=) is the bridge between oppositions in Trinity (+=-) form. and that found right inside of ourselves as our own Soul connection to God, requiring no religion even.
That will save us from everything bad, especially fear and greed, not to mention worry about our future, because we will know ourselves to be eternal spirits and destined for better no matter what.
So, I believe that people like challenges and they accept fear as a challenge because the greatest satisfactions on earth are the overcoming of fear ... for the Godless it may be gaining immense wealth, power and authority.
For the few that Are Spiritual, it is just their relationship with God and the universe accordingly. I count myself as of the latter having been the former for most of my life ... I very much prefer the latter.
Because of the latter, I have come to find that our earth world is headed for a climactic change, that will make everything completely different. This is a spiritual and also a physical cosmic season event that we are already well into ... weather, peoples thought and actions, diseases, wars, famines, are all going to be a part of that change ...
But it will be a very good thing in the end ... though many will die as we now know death, it will be but a transition to a better reality ... for the ones that learn their lessons in time anyway.
The greatest challenge for people will be to find their internal spirit, the Truth that will set them free, free from fear and materialistic objective prioritization on physicality ...
If they are able to free themselves mentally, God will provide a relative heaven for them post changes ... if not, they will be forced to stay with the earth leadership hierarchy that now controls everything objectively ... the final choice will be the difference between a relative heaven and hell.
The fear that is upon us and which will be getting ever more oppressive in the future, serves two purposes, 1) to get people to support the existing leadership who will say that they will take care of and protect you if you do everything as they tell you ... OR ... 2) it is to get you to such a low level of depression that you do what you probably would never have done otherwise, look inside of yourself for the Spirit of God to be "saved" via that divine leadership ... which will come to you personally through your own intuition ...
Really, our entire world is at a cross roads, maybe we can come together and pull off a miracle and remain all together cooperating in honesty and compassion for each other while naturally improving this very planet ... but maybe there will be a "parting of the ways" ... it all remains to be seen. It does not look very hopeful at the moment to me ...
I am sure this sounds like a bunch of hogwash for many, most probably not even have read this far, but I state that I believe this to be as true as anything else you have been or will be told here on earth ... I also believe it my spiritual mission in the name of God that I tell you these things ... regardless of how idiotic many may feel that I am.
Just a warning ... and I honestly do not believe that if the news changed to ALL GOOD that it would help ... it just wouldn't seem like the truth and what every one wants the most from their deepest spiritual inner level ... IS the TRUTH.
IMnsHO.
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You hit it right on the nose with "Divide and Control." Roosevelt was right when he said, "All we have to fear is fear itself." From what's given importance on the news to movies and television bombarding us with mostly negativity, evil's chaotic results puts us all in jeopardy. By any other name, this is just another form of brainwashing. If not put in check, to what end will this alarming trend finally divide and concur? This has been going on for a long time with many citizens subscribing to the philosophy that these people must know what is best for all of us. On the other hand, if the existing powers were taken out of the equation, would it be any different? "Power tends to corrupt and absolute power tends to corrupt absolutely everywhere." Is what's good for the one (the corporation or individual), good for the many? Thank God that unlike some other countries, our government at least has checks and balances. However, when a politician accepts any large contribution of funds to run a campaign, it's only natural to assume that they will eventually have to pay the piper. This sometimes covert activity; add in the lobbyists, and corporate special interests, and what we have is a process that, in the end, may or may not serve the better interests of the people. Sometimes a greater good is served and sometimes it's not. Although their primary job is to make their stockholders happy, there are many ethical and hard working corporate CEO's who in doing so also contribute to a strong economy. In the matter of change for the better, the power of the peoples' internet could bring us all closer to center. We really need to simplify, simplify, simplify, and finally realize that the gray areas are created for our own self serving purposes. Truth is truth.
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Evil has always dwelled in the shadows lurking about for the opportunity to spread its diabolical message and influence under the guise of good; promising rewards to those who don't yet fully understand the consequences and ramifications to ourselves and others in our short-lived existence. These entity allied hierarchies pull the strings of the unsuspecting masses that are either too busy, intellectually starved, or complacent to even understand the implications and end results usually until it's too late..
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We must also realize that there are some good people in leadership positions who are trying to make a difference for the better. We need to know who's who while constantly asking the right questions and then make them accountable.
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Yes, the truly divine spiritual help is there for anyone who seeks truth in His Light. Jesus Christ offers us truth, love, hope, joy, enlightenment, and hearts desire in His Light. "Seek and ye shall find. Ask and it shall be given onto you." To experience this is to make fear someone else's problem. In His Light there is no darkness.
Paragraph # 5
Some of the wealthiest among us are the most miserable and unhappy. Having money makes life more comfortable, but by itself doesn't bring happiness. Curiously enough, statistically, most lottery winners squander away their winning within the first year. It's one's love of money and the misused power it can generate that dwells out of the darkness. Light is truth, love, hope, joy, enlightenment, and hearts desire and are the things that will truly make us happy. Education is the key; wisdom comes from God.
Greed is a Godless end to their means (+/-).
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Religions teaching the written word of God provide a foundation to live a better life. Unfortunately, some people within religious communities exist on tangents clouding the greater good; the truth as it has been given to us.
Paragraphs # 7, 8, & 9
Yes, in The Light there can be no fear or worry in the knowledge that our eternal spirits are destined for better things to come, no matter what.
There's also the challenge of overcoming and casting out evil: First in our individual lives before we can even hope to cast it out elsewhere.
I also choose a relationship with God, however, fortunately, or unfortunately our faith will soon be tested, and like Christ's disciples' survival and choice for this tangible existence, may take precedent over some of our eternal lives. May our faith be strong enough to overcome what is to come.
Paragraphs # 10 & 11
Yes to all. We are all on a collision course with destiny. One only has to look around to realize that no good can come from the escalating chaos surrounding and suffocating us. If this trend continues to grow unchecked, it can only have devastating consequences for everyone. If anyone thinks that this will eventually reverse itself without a higher power intervening, please share your thoughts with all of us. Maybe our leadership can benefit from your wisdom.
Paragraphs # 12
To have fear is to be a slave of it. To be free is to know inner joy.
To understand materialism one only needs to take inventory. A good start would be in the garage where junk by any other name is still junk.
Faithful objective reasoning usually yields logical results, void of prioritization on the physical restraints of this existence.
Paragraphs # 13
Examples of heaven and hell have always been with us on earth. The only reason I can see for people choosing evil is because they really don't believe in God. They take what they want by any means to make the most of what they consider survival of the fittest. This dog-eat-dog existence originates from their primordial, latent, genetic programming within the mundane and most basic of homosapiens among us. Pity them, if they know not what they do, and if they do, understand the darkness from where it comes.
Paragraphs # 14 & 15
And/or # 3: See it all for what it is and from all those within the Light, shouting outward for all to hear, "We The People…"
Paragraph 16
Any positive contribution and effort to advancement of the human race is never hogwash or idiotic. For us to even hope of reaching a higher plane of understanding, we must first overcome our own limitations and imperfections. Then, eventually reaching for the stars will seem like child's' play.
Paragraph 17
I'm not suggesting that all news be good news. In contrast, all news should not be bad news. My suggestion was the following: "It would be refreshing, to say the least, if there were a news program that focused on all the good things people do every day where we could be inspired by their contributions to the advancement of our civilization and humankind. But, I'm told that nobody would watch - would you?"
What we need is the truth about more positive influences in our lives. To inspire in a hope filled environment giving positive celebration and recognition to the human spirit who make a difference to the advancement of humankind - that in stark contrast to those who want to destroy and bring us down. At the very least, it would be interesting to compare the ratings of one positive news show in contrast to all the other negative reporting that drags us down into their gutter.
"If we surround ourselves with the good and righteous, they can only raise us up."
After reviewing all of the above, I realized that just about every sentence could be dedicated to an article by itself. But that would only happen if others find these topics important enough to pursue and explore.
(+=-)>(+/-)
I would like to try an experiment. To better explain your symbolic message, would you in your own words, give everyone a basic definition, and a sample for each as it would apply to this article?
(+) Include definition with no more than 2 examples.
(=) Include definition with no more than 2 examples.
(-) Include definition with no more than 2 examples.
(+ = -) Include definition with no more than 2 examples.
>
(+/-) Include definition with no more than 2 examples.
It is my hope, that with a more basic (straightforward) understanding of your symbolism, more people might participate in the discussion now and ito the future.
That being open minded for seeking the reconciliation that would make the (-) less (-) by blending (=) it with the (+), which would maybe get "closer" to (+=-) ... but not in the sense that some would see it as a pollution of the (+) in making all (=). This would be the view of the dualist (+/-) that does not understand the spiritual (=) nature of Trinity.
Clear as mud isn't it !?! So let me just define the terms (symbols) themselves and their combinations.
God created the full range of potentials which, at their extremes, are the infinite (+) and the infinite (-) ... they come from God, at Alpha creation, and are reconciled (=) back there in the "end" in their eventual return back to the source at Omega. During creation then, the truth of the matter is a Trinity of (+=-), where it is the Spirit of God that is the (=), the "reconciler" ... Thus the highest truth, is that all things are a mix of (+) and (-), where the Spirit (=) is the "mixer", the BALANCE of the truth at hand, (+=-).
Meaning that BOTH (+) and (-) ARE required to know one another, good cannot be known, let alone appreciated without the contrast of bad. Heat cannot be appreciated without the moderation and/or contrast of cold, warm being a comfortable balance of the two, or maybe cool, but never the extremes themselves.
The enlightened man that understands this, does so with a relationship to his Spiritual Intuition (=), the connection INternally with his own Soul, connected directly to the "mind of God" (=). He then appreciates the diversity of (+) AND (-) and allows Spirit (=) to participate in all distinctions of the proper differentiation, discerning without judgemental condemnation. This the way of God's entire universe, where utilizing Spirit, everything is automatically sorted out and properly paired with it's relative opposite in a beneficial relationship resulting in a synergy of win/win for all involved.
Now the preceding is NOT really a compromise of an intermixing, as originally stated in the "muddy" example ... It is more of a recognition that it "takes two to tango", or that there are always "two sides to every coin" ... that the whole is greater for the parts. The greatest strength of the whole is then when the parts are in agreement rather than conflict, the sides know themselves as required to make up the coin and agreeing to "come together" around the center for that unity, a "trinity".
Man who is devoid of knowing his spiritual inner nature, is convinced that he is alone in creation, a separate being that he relates to as the total of his physicality, which he sees as his "ego self" ... that compared to others and/or death, is seen to be prioritized as a (+) relative to the "others", the (-)'s that are separated from him with a Void (/) or Gap (/) in between the "differences" as (+/-) which is a dichotomous duality in effect in the physical sense.
The greater problem being that man has taken it upon himself (instigated by religions) to call himself "good" (+) compared to others who then must be "bad" (-) because they are just the "opposite of" him. (+/-) ...
Now even a woman is the opposite of a man in some respects, (+/-) and then IF "valuation" is a consideration in that regard, there will be conflict. If just the straight facts of sexual difference are noted as the truth they are, and valuation is left out, there will be peace ... maybe even family creation :-) (Synergy) ...
The major point being that mankind without Spirit is an ego dualist seeking extremes between good and bad while being the very one that labels the two allowable considerations for himself ... (or when subservient as a follower of outside "authority", it most likely also dualistic, he allows them to define good and bad for him) ... in either case there will be exclusiveness and conflict via forced separations of a divisive nature where one decides for the other, usually the one who "righteously" call himself the (+).
In the perfected and ideal case of Trinity (+=-), the Spirit of God is always INvolved, at least INtuitively, and there is inclusive acceptance, compassion, cooperation, and peace ...
That is it in a nutshell, further elaboration can be found in my articles, or better yet in my BOOK (free downloads). Feel free to ask any more specific questions ...
We are all bombarded with problems every day of our lives. The world is in such chaos that for some it sometimes seems impossible to fix. A problem only remains a problem and grows out of control if others turn away from it and do nothing. But we must first understand the problem and from where it spawns before we can only hope to find a solution.
In an effort to simplify your concept to its most basic understanding, I offer the following thoughts and interpretations:
(+) Plus represents all that is good: Truth, peace, love, hope, joy, enlightenment, and hearts desire - God's hope for all of us.
Example: The Bible. Positive thinking, while being respectful of other peoples thoughts in the knowledge that no one person has all the answers. Live and let live even though we know our way is best. Lead by example and when proven to be the best, others will follow. It's about personal growth in our reach for perfection; all of those good things that are included in His Book of Light and life.
(=) God who is the creator, author of truth and understanding between right and wrong (+ = -).
Example: The spirit of God; the trinity, providing a personal human connection to the mind of God and the choices we have between the opposing extremes of (+ & -). While in balance there is clarity of purpose and hope for wisdom.
(-) Minus represents all that is wrong or evil; the opposite end of the spectrum within God's creation and plan.
Example: A perverted ten suggestions, lies, chaos, violence, murder, and not doing onto others as we would expect them to do onto us.
(+ = -) Represents the perfected and ideal case of Trinity (+ = -), God's revelation to man, while the Spirit of God stays involved. He accepts our human frailties and imperfections while His compassion, cooperation, and peace are ever present. All of this He IS while hoping that we will choose wisely in the final realization that all good things in life and beyond come from Him.
>
(+/-) is the duelist constantly making everything equal in the absence of God.
Conclusion:
1. If the above is an accurate interruption of your symbols, would you say that an imbalance is accruing as a direct result of the growing absence of God in our lives (+/-)?
2. Do you think that the balance of (+ = -) has been compromised by (+/-) with the resulting worldwide chaos we're experiencing?
3. In your view, is it possible to hope for resolution to our world's problems without the balance of (+ = -)?
4. Under a predominate factor of (+/-), it would seem that the minuses would become a dominate influence with disturbing, negative results.
I agree with you that we must first be able to recognize the truth of our problems before we can effectively correct them. And that is the very reason I sought the basic essence of truth, which I propose is the BET. That because before discovering that, I would seek answers to solve problems but because everything is relative to one degree or other, I was always taking detours down paths of connected other problems and getting lost in the "outer" issues, never able to get to the nucleus of a problem.
When a person is a dualist and seeks only one answer with the complete disregard and thus the rejection of the "other", they lose the balance of the truth in a false "righteousness" and they may go away believing they have made the correct choice when in fact often they have not, and their mistake follows them to creep up and bite them later on, because things are just not that easily separated.
So let me address your items by number and see what we end up with.
1- (+): I agree with your take … with one possible exception, and one that I believe probably does not need addressing in "your" case, but for many who still tend toward dualism it does. That being that for a dualist, he would seek towards the extreme of (+) and attempt to distance himself from the (-) as far as he could, some would even fight with the (-) in the process.
The dualistic conflict then becomes more so if the (-) is being unfairly judged and discriminated against by the (+) … usually the gap/void (/) just widens between them, to where any communication becomes much less than accommodating in any way. Such resultant misunderstanding then results in fear and that in hatred. Resulting in the age old conflict between good and evil. (+/-).
2- (=): Here I see God the creator being defined by the outer parenthesis as ( ) which would stand for the pre-Alpha condition of singularity … actually a bit confusing in that depending upon the application, the parenthesis may mean different things, usually as a separative defining limit around a symbol, unless it stands for God as Singularity ( ), or God as Trinity ,in which case it would contain the relative members of that Trinity as (+=-) in which case God would be the (+) withIN the outer parenthesis, The holy Spirit the (=) and the Son the (-) … standing for the 3 withIN the 1, (+=-).
It should be noted though, that in the above Trinity as defined, all of unrealized (material or physical) creation would also fall withIN the (-) … as would Jesus and us as potential realized brothers and sisters. Christ then, being the "Title" for the realized Jesus, would classify then as (=) … as would God as the Singularity when not needed to be the (+) for the relative relationships. (this would be so much easier to understand were we able to communicate it in person).
Anyway, overall, your definition works as you wrote it … and as you noted, the symbols have different meanings for what we are attempting to portray, such as between, right (+) and (&) wrong (-) with the Spirit of God (=) in between. (+&-) or (+=-). Thus we should "discern" between choices, but leaving the "judgment", if any, to God.
3- (-) : As you state … from a dualistic perspective of a judgmental (or discerning ) (+). A (+) who has leaned as far towards that extreme as he can, who sees those negative (-) terms as also towards the other polar extreme … (+/-).
The main point though that I attempt to make in Trinity think recommendations, is that both (+) and (-) should trend toward the center where Spirit (=) resides, NOT towards the extreme ends. Nearer to that "center" they can each use Spirit to reconcile their differences and they can learn to have a friendly appreciation of their natural diversities, maybe even cooperating and becoming friends rather than enemies … then based upon a relationship with Spirit (=), the "three" of them (+=-) can move as a group closer to God … which may well be in a direct line "different than" the normal thought of far right extreme of dualism, a more central "short-cut" (possibly up rather than lateral) bypassing the extreme of (+), one that transforms the (-) and (+) both into less extremism and thus more peaceful and loving of each other, because their common Spirit is just that and sets the example for it.
4- (+=-) : I fully agree with your expression on this.
5- > : Means "greater than" … and thus (+=-) is > (+/-)
6- (+/-) : Actually, they ARE equals, BUT they fight and contest for supremacy attempting to make things Unequal in their favor. That being the norm for dualistic egos. The ego being the small self that does not yet know it's higher Self, it's Soul withIN.
Conclusion:
1c) Yes, I would say for sure that an imbalance results from the Hawks picking on the Doves, the Lions eating the Lambs, and all other greedy competitive Unspiritual striving for selfish survival at the expense of weaker others.
2c) The balance overall in the greater picture of God always exists, but yes, in the realm we perceive here on earth, most certainly the ego view has caused great unbalance through (+/-) thinking and actions.
But we must remember that (+/-) does NOT always stand for "valuation" differences, the impression is too often seen that way in egotistical error …Males would be (+) and Females (-) as symbolization of natural differences, equals but opposites, but NOT in a "valuation" way.
3c) Given the trend of (+/-) as ego actions and reactions, I see little chance for balance. There is always hope, and Spirit is always involved speaking to each through our Intuition, so the chance exists, but I would not hold my breath. I think things will have to get much worse, and I believe they will, before people begin to seek better to the degree that they will freely consider something other than duality. I would hope that (+=-) will be well enough known of by then for them to want to try it.
4c) On the surface I would say yes to that. Especially when the (-)'s are viewed as the "bad" things going on. But we must remember that, as I just said above, the (-)'s are NOT necessarily "bad" … unless we INTEND to define them that way … in duality it is too often taken for granted that (-) is always bad. In Trinity (-) is only the equal but opposite of the (+) … all is relative and we must not confuse the apples with the oranges, or worse yet the fruit with the veggies.
So the greater problem is not an increase of one symbol over the other as it is the CONFLICT between the two. If one looked at the symbol of (+) for a male dominated patriarchal war machine seeking imperialistic conquest, the Hawks with superior strength warring against peaceful 3rd world pacifist countries, the relative Doves, that would be a (+/-) that would NOT hold the "normally" perceived (+) as "higher valuation". Sometime positive IS negative ! Thus when Spirit is allowed to be in-between them as (=) in (+=-), then it all works out for the best. Let go and let God !
I hope this wasn't all too much more confusing and more "muddy".
It seems to me that what you're saying is that + and – is all about an individual's perception of right and wrong as they see it, for their purposes under a personal or group ideology. An example of this could be a Buddhist and Christian, and Jew, and Muslim; religion as opposed to atheism, and the extreme Light (good) as opposed to the extreme darkness (evil), etc. Perception and faith becomes the differences between one and the other. As an example, I don't think Christ ever intended for Christians to have more than one church. Conflicting interpretations resulting in 'my' understanding is the better or right way instead of the core overall message in itself, has separated Christians from themselves.
Although I could never place Jesus within any (-), I see what you are trying to say regarding your symbolic trinity hypothesis of (+God), (= The Holy Spirit), and (– Jesus & us) completing the Trinity and thus (+ = -). Christ then, being the "Title" for the realized Jesus, would classify then as (=) … as would God as the Singularity when not needed to be the (+) for the relative relationships. This is the way I see (=) which includes God, the Holy Spirit, and Jesus at the center with clearly defined choices at opposite ends.
(Yes, this would be so much easier if we were able to discuss this in person).
I have experienced first hand the destructive, relentless determination, and seductive influences of evil. When recognized for what it is, it is the foulest and most suppressive thing anyone could ever experience. On the other hand I was blessed with God's presence where he appeared and asked me to do something. During those three plus years, I experienced pure love and understanding of His plan for all of those who choose to walk His path. If most people had such an experience there would be brotherly love; this world of ours would surely be a paradise, and man's full potentials for advancing our civilization would finally be realized now and into the future. The alternative, of which is the road we're on, will prove to be of unimaginable consequences if we don't change our ways.
The person who sees the glass as half full is an optimist. (+)
The person who sees the glass as half empty is a pessimist. (-)
Both are correct in their observation. It is only their perception of what 'is' that makes them what they are. That perception comes from an attitude based on the positive or negative influences that they chose to live their lives.
The teachings of Jesus Christ can only benefit anyone who seeks truth, love, hope, joy, and hearts desire (+). The devil has many names with one purpose: To suffocate everything he can into his darkness (-). Why? Using these extreme examples, it's because without one, there cannot be the other. Adam and Eve didn't know how good they had it in paradise because they had nothing to compare paradise to, until they defied God's one condition. They could not appreciate perfection because they knew not what they had.
The duelist in the absence of God (+/-) might also look at conflicting viewpoints this way as one symbolic equation:
(+/-)
(-/+)
In any negotiation there are always things on both sides of the table that will benefit one side and the other, wherein the negotiators argue the pluses and minuses for their own self serving purposes and interests. In such a situation, they would weigh one item against the other and eventually come up with something that would appear to satisfy both sides. It's all about how much both sides want the deal to happen for their mutual interests. Give and take becomes the key to any successful outcome. In business this usually works well. With unstable governments and a history of hate, the problem with this thinking is that it's most likely a temporary fix and could not last. It would most likely end up an impetuous and impulsive decision based on a flawed premise and shortsightedness. Both sides believe they're making the right decision, but are ill equipped to really solve the problem.
Having said that, Good and evil; right and wrong is clearly defined by God with no gray areas. We can choose one or the other in our lives.
When it comes to divergent perceptions, a lasting solution can only be found through wisdom with a mutual vision for the future from both sides of the table.
Right is right and wrong is wrong. For those who know the difference this is clearly obvious.
It's from those who don't know the difference or are actually evil, that we have all the problems facing us today.
Outside of right and wrong, conflicting views are a natural process in the human arena. These problems can eventually be solved with respect and understanding of each side's extenuating circumstances.
In a fee society, theological endeavors thrive and have the opportunity to inspire others through positive examples of its value and message.
In conclusion, in a free thinking society it really doesn't matter what someone else says. It really comes down to what we think about truth, based on our knowledge, beliefs, values, and character.
We can relate to God from "this" level, ONLY Spiritually, because "that" is the way God relates to all of creation. Thus if and when we do relate Spiritually, we need NOT attempt to distance ourselves from our "opposite" because just by the Spiritual relationship, the Spirit (=) becomes our closest "neighbor" right in between us and our "former" opposition, as the "negotiator" for peaceful understanding and cooperation, doing away with fear, hate, mistrust and conflicts. With and through Spirit (=) both "sides" ARE CONNECTED (+=-) … then mistrust of each other is transcended to MUTUAL trust in Spirit for resolving differences peacefully.
Without Spirit (=) Involvement (Trinity) as (+=-) … we are left with Duality (+/-) with it's VOID (/) across which we fear and conflict with each other … ultimately to the degree that we separate into EXTREMISM where the VOID becomes such a GAP (/) that even Spirit SEEMS not an option able to BRIDGE the void/gap. But it always is, and often the ONLY way … even when one or the other "side" is not aware, it intuitively speaks to each, always attempting subtlety to whisper us back together as our inner natural instinct to WANT to trust rather than fear.
Now let me address your comment more directly top to bottom:
"It seems to me that …" … as I have indicated above, it is the middle or center of differences where contrast in objectivity around our perceptions are the hardest to define as oppositions, that initial "separation point" (zero point) often being mostly just a personal perception of a subjective nature to which, we then apply an objective meaning and related action … one that if desired to increase that separation, it "will" … on the other hand, if desired to decrease the separation, it "might", that depending upon the mind set of the "other" person.
The most important realization being that the problems (if they are a problem) are best resolvable nearer to the center where we all should be striving to cooperate BEFORE things get so divisive as to be completely polarized. Extreme polarization being the worst … unless of course it is seen mutually as desired. Meaning that there can be "good" polarizations also … they being the "needed" extremes for certain contrasts and maximum energy interchange, such as in our Electricity which is all about (+=-) in time/space Interaction.
It being the REALIZATION of the natural differentiations as a needed part of the whole of creation where agreements to cooperate in peace or with a truce can and will become a synergism rather than destructive conflicts.
"Although I could … " … Amen ! … with the possible need for clarification from "my" viewpoint. That being, we should never automatically look at (-) as a "valuation" of less, or negativity, in "that" sense. Man as a (+) and compared to Woman as a (-) ONLY MEANS opposites YET equals "in the greater picture" of God's. … (+=-) NOT (+/-). Yet (+/-) CAN MEAN either Natural Fact and Truth … OR … a valuation of better over worse. We must always attempt to know and define clearly what we mean (Intend) for those relationships which are neutral unless we define them otherwise.
I personally separate (for that relational purpose of meanings) Jesus as the "man" (-) our "former objective" brother who was early on only "potentially" "Christ-able", and who qualified for that "Title" of Christ (=) when he actually became so Spiritual (=). Him having told us all, that "we too could become as he only greater" … meaning that we also could come into the experience if the Father God (+) through a Spiritual (=) relationship transforming our ego self (-) into a Spiritual higher Self (=) relative to all else (+=-).
So YES, AMEN !
But I think that you and I are doing very well in discussing all of this this way … all things considered. :-)
" I have experienced … " … such an experience is the epitome of human experience as far as I know, and quite rare relative to the experiences of most people … yet quite possible for all.
Between the "optimist" (+) and the "pessimist" (-) … we MUST always keep in mind that the one that "seems" to have the highest "valuation" (+) may well be really the lowest (-) valuation in comparison IF there was a NEED for change … such as the world actually self destructing around everyone while the optimist (+) mistakenly calls for more of the same, the status quo … while the pessimist (-) actually recognizes the NEED for change and gives warning to that effect …
What may be true in defining such differences (+/-) at one moment and circumstance, may well change to the opposite at another moment or differing "perception". Only from the perspective of God's Spirit (=) is the whole picture seen and truth known. Each can be right and correct from their own position and perspective at the very same time … thus the meaning that truth is relative on our level or realm, relative to each other, as well as relative to the higher realm of Spirit and/or God.
"The teachings of … " … Amen again I say … considering the previous cautions around perspective relationships and subjective evaluations based upon perspectives.
The religious folks who relate Jesus the Christ (too often) as being "one and the same as God the Father" MUST realize the "difference", that Christ as (=) is but an example of a Spiritual "doorway" to the Father (+) for us people (-) … it all being a matter of Trinity relationships (+=-) (as you have said) , rather than a simplistic duality thing of (+/-). It being those who see it all as (+/-) that really need to transcend that concept to (+=-) before so many "problems" in our world can be resolved.
It is very true of course that we need the extreme differences to be able to recognize the blessings of a more middle of the road approach and experience which still allows us the room to grow with adequate "goals" as well as knowing the "down-side" that awaits those not careful.
The word "perfection" also is one that has more than only one valuable meaning … between realms, such as ours (-) and God's (+) … in the "dualistic sense" of (+/-), the only perfection is "His" … something we as humans can never attain as (-)'s … BUT … when we do realize and participate with Spirit (=) as our God endowed fullness of "potential" in (+=-) … we will have become "perfect" (whole and complete in every way) in the sense that we will have become as Jesus was when Christed, becoming as he was in relationship to the Father God, a god. IMnsHO.
Between (+/-) and (-/+) it is only a matter of perception which is subjective … of course that can often be "forced" upon weaker people with strength (physical and mental) both objectively as well as subjectively … but only God and Spirit know the whole truth of such relationships.
"In any negotiation … " … All so true, Amen again ! But I would add in here my take, in that IF and WHEN Spirit is Trusted as the "negotiator", then honesty can prevail on both sides and insure the results all would want without guilt, fear and shame … those very things that cause people to lie when they think they can get away with it and achieve an "advantage" OVER another … Transparency in Truth is required for long lasting gain on all sides … that only comes from the Spirit of trusted and acceptable commonality and knowing that there IS a higher Karmic accounting always taking place … IMnsHO.
" Having said that, Good and evil … " … Here we might quibble on the "grey area" thingy … as I see it all, the ONLY clearly defined factors are those of the potential extremes, the complete polarization (which most think that God completely "separates," as into a heaven and a hell … as most forget that God is the RELATIVE (=) BETWEEN (thus interconnected always) Heaven (+) and Hell (-) … (+=-) … NOT (+/-).
Thus BOTH concepts as "absolute" God (=) … or "relative God (+) … require knowing the "relationship" (perspective) we are applying and using.
Grey areas CAN be "dualistically" considered as the Void (/) … OR … as the Spiritual (=) … the Void (/) being CONSIDERED as a NO-THING, a Gap separating, as in (+/-) … AND/OR as the SPIRITUAL EVERYTHING aspect of God (=)(an Invisible "bridge") in (+=-).
The CHOOSING then becomes to us, as that of Spiritual "discernment" (a rather neutral "choice") based upon (+=-) Including the "negotiator" (=) … OR … that of objective "judgment" which too often includes "condemnation" of the "other" (-) as a "valuation" thing of "rejection" (/) in (+/-). Trinity allowance or dualistic rejection. Two different "views" of the "grey areas". One view allows the polar oppositions to have a balance and other view does not allow.
For the true knowledge between the differences of "right and wrongs", one MUST allow always the greater picture of relativity involving God … yet they are required to make that personal discernment that directs their actions moment by moment … that is where their own Inner Intuition comes into play and the recognition of it's specificity to their own exact position of overall relativity to the greater truths of the whole matter … something that Moralistic (generalized) Rules imposed from OUTside cannot accurately do for them in many cases.
The difference between good and evil is thus often a very murky grey area that we are required to do our best to operate in … IF we seek Trinity truth.
" In a free society … " … agreed … as long as the theological endeavors hold the truth of the greater Trinity (+=-) … which unfortunately I do NOT believe that enough of them do … based upon the results I have seen in dualistic (+/-) differentiations playing out in the followers. But yes, the possibility does exist.
And in conclusion, as you say, it is what Fruit we bear that determines the result … unfortunately, the words we do use, do have an awful lot of bearing upon the understandings, or not, that result and eventuate in the product we experience.
But the most important aspect of it all comes from our Intentions … IMnsHO.
Semantics ARE sometimes VERY meaningful and sometimes Not … :-)
Many years ago I was in a deep and enlightened conversation with a Cistercian Monk about the seductive, deceptive, and egregious influences of evil. One of the conclusions "Fighting evil" that came out of that lengthily exchange of ideas and solutions were the following:
1. Never fight evil on its own terms. When we are truly one with God, there is only His way in The Light.
2. Know evil for what it is and NOT what it professes to be.
3. Beware of false profits and purveyors of change that profess a better way or idea outside of God's traditional teachings. Without a sound foundation the house cannot stand for any length of time.
4. Change being the essential process for all existence does not preclude or even suggest that our purest of values be altered or lessened or modified, or altered in any way by change. Change for change sake, more often than not, only exasperates, compounds, and results in bigger problems. It is the wise and informed person who weighs the possibilities before entering into any change.
5. Pure, selfless thoughts put everything in perspective.
6. Never try to justify any gray area. They can have very different interpretations and consequences.
On our human level (+ as opposed to -), are in a constant, uncompromising, and relentless battle for dominance over our souls. (+) offers us happiness now and forever, while (-) only promises worldly pleasures in this life which at best is a human perception. The enlightened dwell in His Light while evil rejects The Light dwelling in the deepest recesses of darkness. Protected and shielded while in The Light, from evil's poisonous romp, evil becomes but a distant concept. Evil thrives only when good turns a blind eye or dismisses its implications.
Being that good and evil are so diametrically, philosophically, and theologically opposed to each other, I don't see how good, and evil could ever resolve their difference. They exist for us to make a choice for our salvation or our purgatory. That choice is either based on faith and enlightenment or on limited and restricted perceptions in a Godless existence.
Can (+ = -) apply as a universal symbol if the extremes have no chance of reason or compromise in their totally opposite realm? They each exist without any chance of compromise.
On a strictly human level dealing with our pursuit of survival and peace, a successful negotiation would be contingent upon mutual interests and desires for peace and harmony. Both sides would have to want the same thing. Some radicals do not have the same values and would just as soon see the world come to an end. Reasoning with unreasonable people becomes futile where education, reason, understanding, and wisdom don't exist. It becomes a matter of attrition unless or until we can see the error of our ways before it's too late. The lack of more interest or participation in this article proves my point. Complacency serves no purpose except to eventually face the end results.
On an individual level, I see (+ = -) as a symbol for including God in our continuing pursuit of truth for ourselves and the survival of the species. I see us one with God at (=) making the right choices through our understanding of the opposing forces of good (+) and evil (-). As you wrote, "Only from the perspective of God's Spirit (=) is the whole picture seen and truth known." And that's truth.
You wrote: "The optimist (+) mistakenly calls for more of the same, the status quo … while the pessimist (-) actually recognizes the NEED for change and gives warning to that effect …"
This is so true and it happens all the time. I only included the optimist and pessimist as an example and never intended it to be a focal point. The optimist in your scenario could also be something else. It usually comes down to money, ambition, need, vision, and courage to make any changes to a system that once worked, but is now antiquated and yesterday's newspaper. What worries most businessmen are their funding something that could cost millions if not billions and then someone else comes along with a better idea. The losses could ruin them. On the other hand look at GM. They sat on their hands while the Japanese trounced us. We need more leaders with vision and courage who have the ability and desire to explore possibilities while giving less attention to their own self-serving aspirations.
You wrote: "Each can be right and correct from their own position and perspective at the very same time … thus the meaning that truth is relative on our level or realm, relative to each other, as well as relative to the higher realm of Spirit and/or God."
For me, truth is truth; right is right, and wrong is wrong based on the truth from God that He has bestowed upon me. I think most people know the difference between one and the other. In the world of ideas and perceptions, neither is right or wrong. They are only engaged in finding solutions to a problem or need. From governments debating with each other for position on the world stage, to companies discussing ethanol verses fuel cells, and sometime in the future anti-gravity and recyclable energy, to everyday people making decisions for themselves and their families, we all try to make the best decision based on our abilities, gifts, position, and knowledge. People may differ on which is best; many will make mistakes, but understand they need to do something and as you wrote, "…the most important aspect of it all comes from our Intentions …"
And I will add, AMEN!
But as I understand the Cistercian Monk, his words speak to me of dualistic orthodoxy, that which I have always recommended the transcending of.
I am not sure if I mentioned it to you or someone else recently, but I see a neutral God sending out positive potential energy with one hand and also sending out negative potential energy with the other hand, being the source of both, and right in the very center of that from our perspective of "remoteness" ... as we look outward objectively and live our lives there in materialised physicality relying primarily on our 5 objective senses to determine our "ego's" reality ... we are constantly bombarded with choices of a dualistic nature (+/-) ... the (+) being considered "good" and the path to God (if religious anyway), and the (-) being the path to hell with Satan tempting and tricking (if religious).
But where those two energies (+/-) sent "out" from God (=) "the remote", they actually come together INside of us in our "Heart" where God's Spirit (=) plays out it's magic of unconditional love as the true balance of the potential perfection that we are as (+=-) realizers ...
Those that are always looking "up" and/or "out there" somewhere for signs of God (and/or waiting for the "return of the Messiah" to "save" them) will be seeking something they are not likely to receive ... because what they seek, the Spirit of God, IS INside of them beckoning through their own INtuition already, and being ignored because they are looking in the wrong direction.
It being withIN at any moment that God as Spirit (=) can be found, there reconciling all differentiation between former ideas of (+) VERSUS (-) IE (+/-) into (+) LOVING (-) IE (+=-).
The ONLY time that Good (+) and Evil (-) cannot be reconciled and become a problem, is when Spirit (=) is disregarded to the degree that there becomes an empty Void (/) between them (+/-) ... then there is sure to be much conflict ... and that is just what the Monk seems to me to be recommending, ones seeking the far right (+) of God, disregarding the Spirit (=), as that one relates to a relative (+) themselves as they reject and FIGHT with the side they see as the opposite (-) of what they desire for themselves ... (+/-) is the way I see that, and conflict begets conflict as like begets like.
Anyway, that is how I read such ... and I believe that (+=-)>(+/-) as well as (+/-)<(+=-).
And as for the definition of truth, relative truth and absolute truth ... and also "fact", I have written and commented on those profusely, and I am quite convinced that the idea held by most people and described as your own version, comes under dualism the way I see it.
But always, there is something for everyone, no two people are ever exactly alike, and the very closest they can really get is that of being perfect equal but opposites ... IMnsHO. :-)
http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.jsp?articleId=281474977395432
in case anyone is interested, it might be too contentious for peace lovers though.
I understand and accept your concept of (God=) being at the center of his complete creation of (+'s & -s') (+ = -). I would include the Trinity at center (=), with (+) and (-) remaining on opposites ends. What I'm trying to point out, perhaps inadequately, is that in its purest; most extreme form, good and evil stands alone, with both on opposite ends of the spectrum for domination of our souls. There can be no compromise or negotiation or concept of both eventually getting to center, because if they did, it would create a gray, clouded area of which pure thought and God's plan for us could never exist for (Good or for evil). If gray areas prevailed, then evil would be victorious in any such scenario by mere attrition. One could say that is what we have today; disproportionate gray areas of what's right and what's wrong. This is how evil works with half truths and innuendo.
As I understand your concept (+/-) being flawed, is because it suggests that (God +) created Good (The Light) in contrast to (Satan -) who is of evil (darkness).
1:3. And God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light. 4. And God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from darkness." This alone puts God (=) at the center of creation (+ = -), the Alpha and the Omega. "Let there be Light," and from the darkness there was Light; and with His light there became the opposite so that all could eventually see the difference.
I we were in person, or I could draw out some pictures, it would be so much easier to communicate the finer points that seem to need some attention.
The concept of "grey areas" here seeming to be a point of contention between us ... grey areas being relative and them having an infinitely small (subjective) "line" in their center, where they actually "change over" between the "Light" and the "Dark" ... that change over place, having an exact theoretical center that is "The Spirit of God" (=) that resides in the very center of every "natural truth" of creation, objective as well as subjective.
The "near" truth then is the Spiritual aspect withIN each of us, that which our own personal (+) and (-)'s gather around on each side of said truth.
The "other", the "far" truth, would then be that of God (=) Him/Her Self, seen as the "OUTer" limits of the created universe that IS God in the manifested totality, in the objective (physical) sense.
If I were to draw that out on paper, I might draw either a full circle, or, more likely, an Infinity symbol ...
So imagine (or draw) the latter, and to keep it simple for the sake of personal relationships Trinity wise, let us place God as (+=-) at one end of said infinity symbol ...
Then let us place our-self at the opposite end of said symbol facing God and knowing ourselves to be Spiritual as (+=-) ...
Then let us picture ourselves "shaking hands" with God, right hands clasped (just as two men commonly shake hands) and in addition, also the left hands clasped.
Of course we are not "actually" physically clasping hands with God, but we would be doing so subjectively in the Spiritual sense ... and that completing an energy transfer circuit of a Spiritual nature.
Between God and us then would be an energy flow as God the source, His/her right hand (+) discharging toward us ... across the universe ...
Our right hand (+) (from our perspective) sending our own energy back to God.
But on the "other hand" of God, the left hand, would be sourced the (-) energy potential for our use, coming to us across the universe ...
We in turn, because we are enlightened enough to be Spiritually balanced, would be sending out, via our left hand, back to God our own (-) energy ...
Because we are balanced with God in the Spiritual (=) sense, the energies are also balanced, and because of the "CROSS over" effect symbolized by the infinity symbols "center" (crossing), the Center between God and us, IS the PLACE of MAXIMUM Universal Spiritual (=) Balance, a Trinity of Balances (===) consisting of the center of God, the Center of Centers, and the center of us ...
That which can be also pictured as a perfect direct line connection all the way across the entire universal creation, the very shortest and quickest possible concept of instantaneous time and minimal spacial differentiation (because space/time is -/+ and is centered upon Spirit =)
Actually, all of that would also be a Trinity of Trinitys, in a sense, but the very Center of centers would only consist of PURE (=) due to the total blend of the crossover neutralization of that overall BALANCE (=), the actual HOME of the UNIVERSAL SPIRIT ...
That Universal Spirit being the (=) between God seen as the "relative" (+) (source), compared to man (us) as the created physical "image of" God as a god (-) ... (+=-)
Now please bear in mind that the use of said symbols MUST be used in the proper relative relationships to make sense ... they are all interchangeable for different applications of relativity as long as they are in the correct "sets of three" (not "necessarily" including the parenthesis itself) ...
But overall, I see God as the center of the division, and/or, the addition, whatever the case of actuality, between (=), the (+), and the (-) ...
I see our own higher Self, our Spiritual Soul, as "our" Spiritual center balance point, the equal yet opposite of God, with us when that perfected, we being then a relative god.
The BET as (+=-) being the key to every real truth, both subjective, objective, and that in between.
IMnsHO.
For any equation, or symbol to be accepted universally, it must satisfy completely and communicate effectively without compromise or any ambiguity to its meaning and implications. Without exception, everyone must recognize its completeness and purity of application as a symbol of universal thought.
If I were to attempt such a definition or theorem for your symbol (+ = -) to satisfy a universal acceptance, it might look something like this:
Definition:
(+ = -) Theol-theoretics: 1. Theological virtues (+), God the Creator (=) the Alpha and Omega, and virtueless (-), the extreme thereof; the symbolic theological parts of ultimate knowledge: 2. (=), Theophrastus: Divinely protected.) 3. also; The Creator [(=) theonomous], controlled by The Creator God; also, The Trinity (= = =) The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit). 4. (+) equals perfection in His Light, 5. (-) equals imperfection; the extreme opposite that dwells in darkness. 6. Universal thought. 7. The Light and the darkness.
With an acceptance of a basic universal definition that gives your symbol (+ = -) credibility and validity, the doors can then open to philosophical/theological debate based on an established foundation of its traditional/non-traditional roots and merits.
Soon I will deal with " theonomous" another word I am as yet unsure of. [theonomous: Governed by God. Subject to God's authority].
Where I suspect that we are not together on this understanding, is that all of my emphasis is on the central balance point of all natural truths ... which is:
1.) God, as (=) at the very extreme of any supposed "distant connection" [the Whole of which we are each a "holographic" aspect or part (piece of)].
2.) Spirit of God, as (=) existing throughout all of creation and the most strongly experienced in the very center of every natural truth of said creation, there being no personal experience greater than that such as "truth to truth" relationships consisting of Spiritual interchanges.
3.) The personal Soul of each human, as (=) existing in awareness and partnership with the ego.
4.) The right and proper combination of all 3 (===) being a Balance of Highest Truths and "Perfection Itself" in a Trinity Relationship ... also related as "defined" parts of Trinity in the sense of the Father (+), the Son (-) and the Holy Spirit (=) being (+=-).
The key point being, that the concept of (+=-) is "applicable" to ANY, "Trinity Truth Relationship" ... to which Spirit as (=) is always Central and the natural balance point between every Other Potential ... potentials of (+) and (-) in whatever natural and true balance to each other.
When Universal Truth is Involved, Spirit is INvolved as (=) ... thus Trinity is The Truth (+=-).
When World based views of the EGO are the standard, due to the ego's considered "disconnectivity" to other egos and the rest of the physical creation, there is NO Spiritual "awareness" as (=), thus there is a Void or Gap (/) between itself and all other, which such an ego evaluates as (+) and (-) as to relationships (+/-) ... (generally considering that as an Evaluation where it is (+) and the other is a comparative (-) ... with each ego seeing thusly, there is often conflict.
Maybe more later, I have to run now.
The important thing here is that we have respectfully exchanged enlightened ideas to each other that will be food for thought for many years to come. My attempt at a definition was only intended to be a jumping off point for you; a mapping of the elements if you will, and I never intended to, or ever presumed to have the complete answer. Only you can make your symbol (+ = -) work for your purposes of communication and universal acceptance. I just hope that whatever definition you come up with for your (+ = -) becomes a universal understanding of all the parts. As an example, most Christians would have a problem with Jesus Christ associated with any negative as is included in your symbol of (-) regardless of any other intent, explanation, or application. They just won’t be able to see beyond it.
Please keep me posted on your progress. For me you’re a person of interest and value that someday I hope to call a friend.
I really do appreciate our exchange of ideas on all of this, and your willingness and motives for doing so. It is most often that people are just not all that interested. One fellow has been, for two years now here on Gather with me, but has never gotten past the defense of his dualistic ego involvement, and thus he now badgers me with negativity ... of course I have asked for it I suppose of late because I prod his ego quite often and it responds accordingly, yet he is a good example of just that egotistical view to other readers I am trying to reach. They can compare the views of the two of us and make up their own minds. Something for everyone.
As for any differences that exist between yourself and I, I would suspect it might be as you say around the "valuation" aspect of Christ as (=) and Jesus as (-) a relationship of the two resulting in Christ Jesus ... it would take many more words to explain that to where any could maybe possibly accept the concept I offer, which is really not only just my own, as many others have also settled upon such a concept as more likely the truth.
Far too many have grown up putting way too much emphasis on the dualistic "valuation" based upon extremes. I have concepts in mind that I could draw out similar to the infinity symbol I mentioned earlier, where side by side an infinity of infinity symbols overlapping in a circular arrangement would equate to each human around a circumference, side by side, relating to the whole as God and the center as the Spirit of God (probably impossible to picture by another as I envision it) ... but the idea being that what was considered as the "most (+) virtuous" would be 90 deg away from each, on one side, and that the most without virtue being also 90 deg away the other way. Each of those being also 90 deg away from "our" own God "aspect" the equal but opposite to us on said circle.
The idea being that each person is spiritually interconnected through "centers" and that our "neighbors" around the circle can, and will be, different than us, a natural part of the overall diversity, but they need NOT be feared, judged, nor condemned by us because our common Spirit will assure that we live cooperatively, at least to the degree we trust it to help us achieve such while that being our desire.
Well, I probably have beat this horse to death for now, but I have done so with the idea that a lot of information has been placed upon his thread that could maybe help someone down the road to understand and thus benefit from it all ... that being what it is all about to me.
So I will end with a copy and paste that also applies the other direction :
""Please keep me posted on your progress. For me you’re a person of interest and value that someday I hope to call a friend.""
Thanks for all, j.
Out-of-the-box thinkers always have an uphill journey before others can understand and accept anything new. It’s contingent upon every visionary to be able to simply and effectively convey their message. Simplify, simplify, simplify.
Yes, it is often true that people are just not all that interested. With issues that can affect all of us, avoiding reality and truth becomes a dangerous position. On the other hand, interest is sometimes effectively generated when the issue itself is easily understood and pushes the right buttons.
Your thought of a side by side infinity of infinity symbols overlapping in a circular arrangement that would equate to each human around a circumference could be the answer to better communicate and define your concept.
“The idea being that each person is spiritually interconnected through "centers" and that our "neighbors" around the circle can, and will be, different than us, a natural part of the overall diversity, but they need NOT be feared, judged, nor condemned by us because our common Spirit will assure that we live cooperatively, at least to the degree we trust it to help us achieve such while that being our desire.”
Theologically speaking, good and evil exist on completely diverse plains with no common spirit. They exist as permanent, unyielding examples to define who and what we are. No middle ground can exist between these two complete opposites.
On just a human level of imperfections where cultural, philosophical, and social differences differ, getting to center with our neighbors for our mutual interests and survival becomes a necessity for any hope of a peaceful future. Ultimately however, a choice of good or evil becomes a factor. Selflessness produces good, while selfishness produces evil. Good creates positive results while evil only suffocates through negative thought and suppression within a dominion of darkness. There can be no darkness when one chooses the Light unconditionally.
Idealistically speaking, if everyone WERE spiritual and if we truly all had a common spirit, then getting to center on other issues would be as easy as an enlightened ability to recognize truth itself.
On the innermost place of that consideration, it is in our own minds where our Spiritual Intuition attempts to differentiate and "instruct" (inform) us ... always that small decision between two choices of "direction" ... always based upon the eternal goal specific to our own Soul which may well be the opposite of anothers.
When we stay "centered" upon the Spirit (=) there, it will seek the greater good for the "both", the idea leaning towards supposed "good" and the idea leaning towards supposed "bad" ... but with Spirit (=) involved with both aspects, there will never become a confrontational "void" (/) in between the choices, thus one can move back and forth into either "realm" as when the overall and greater good of all is involved as a cooperative interchange ... with the spiritual connection, those decisions are made with god in mind, and never polarize to the extremes of actual conflict, each learns from the other and comes to know the unconditional love of the creator and the non-judgemental nature of a partnership for the greater good which can be cooperatively "synergistic" as creative.
The alternative of their (+/-), NEVER "meeting in such mentioned peace", is the separation that you speak of, that of like begets like where fear and hatred beget more fear and hatred with the gap/void (/) being nothing but destructive conflict ... except where "separated" (theoretically) by God into eternal heaven OR eternal hell ... a very dualistic concept (+/-).
This latter idea seems to me to leave little or no allowance for the working of the common Spirit of God to resolve problems ... it seems to equate Jesus Christ as the "good" god (lower case g) and Satan as the "bad" god ... all on a linear scale of Father God's Heaven at one extreme end of said linear scale, and Satan's Hell at the other end ... All or Nothing, very serious "competition".
I just cannot buy into that, and everything I write and say, attempts to simplify my concept for universal understanding and (+=-)>(+/-) is about the very best I can come up with to base it on ... the Basic Equation of Truth ... BET (+=-) ... that being the gist of the essence of my message ...
Of course, that does allow another to disagree with me and have their own concept, even that of (+/-) ... as in (as far as I am concerned) (+=-)=(+/-) ... just so long as Spirit (=) is known by any single aspect of it all ... there then being some hope for the rest.
That would also allow for the "other" side (from "my" perspective) to deny Spirit and/or God, labelling themselves and other just as they see fit ... exactly what is being done this very day ... all of that/this leaving each the potentials to create their own realities, now and into eternity ... but I fully believe that via the karmic process, God/Spirit, or God=Spirit, however one prefers to define them, will separate and protect those Spiritual from "accidents" and "victim-hood", those being terms only applicable for the non-Spiritualists, and those terms being always played out just between the two needing the lessons (+/-) until they come to realize the connectivity of (=) and transcend to the "higher" calling of the Trinity (+=-).
IMnsHO.
Everything we do in this life is a test and makes us who and what we are in God’s eyes. Good and evil is more than just a universal concept. It’s a measure of our understanding of God’s plan for us. He gives us a choice.
For more clarification, can you give me several specific examples on how these two opposing forces of nature could find a compromise at center (+ = -) with God’s approval?
The point being that I as an ego self, do NOT strive over-much beyond what my Soul requires, in "that" direction to a degree that I fear or hate "evil" (-), causing a gap or void (/) of dualistic conflict between us (+/-). Such a conflict being detrimental to cooperative peace and synergistic co-creation.
If and when Spirit (Soul) "moves" me more to the (+) "side", assuming that is a desirable direction, it will NOT be in conflict with the (-) side.
And it seems that this here can all get very "muddy" very soon in trying to explain in words like this ... especially when I take this example back to the circular arrangement of "over-lapping" infinity symbols, where in such a relationship one would "move" rather INward towards Spirit (=), rather than to the (+) side as mentioned above.
By moving inward one would be getting closer to God via God's Spirit (=) ... the "compromise" being a Spiritual INtegration of the (+) and the (-) to where the (-) would be just a useful part of potential utilization for a wider range of experience, NOT a "devaluation" overall, because we are NOT speaking here of being anywhere near the extremes where (-) becomes actual "evil" ...
In the extremes of (+) and (-) they are conjoined with God being in between as the joiner. The person that has say, "moved sideways" around the circle mentioned, has taken the outer route of the macrocosmic, towards God, but "that" outer movement is that of going forward in time and physical space, that which will take an eternity all the way to Omega to accomplish, and most likely repeated reincarnations to accomplish. Not a "bad" choice, actually a natural one conducive for those who like the material (+/-) experience.
But in my own case, I have had it with this material experience that I have had, and that is why I became depressed about it and gave up on it ... then Spirit made itSelf known to me on the "inner path", a "moving back", inward, to the love of the Spirit, a more direct "now" (more immediate) path to God. One trending with (=) and towards (=) ... which if "leaning" (only leaning) I will still be on the (+) side of (=), but NOT so far as to have enemies of (-)s.
God does give us a choice always, it is called free will or free agency. But the God of my acquaintance does NOT desire for us all to be clones of each other or Him. He desires us to be free individuals having a broad range of (+=-) experiences overall ... NOT an extreme (+) with a huge gap on the side of the (-) ...
Only the dualistic God of misunderstood exoteric Christianity, sees this all linearly, where one is supposedly meant to seek an extreme "outer" end of (+) ... that being the outer materialized objective 5 sensory experience of dualistic conflict (/) with (-) ... something NOT really very Spiritual (=).
It is late, time to get some sleep ... feel free, please, to ask for more clarification if desired. Night night.
As I believe I indicated earlier, that could be seen as positive (+) potentials "sourced" from His Right hand, and negative (-) potentials "related to" (meaning possibly "receiving in" at) his Left hand.
Key for "this" example being that God has His arms outstretched, denoting the widest dissemination of those energies out and into, the vastness of the entire created universe ... seen possibly as more of a circle, or sphere, or spherical infinity symbol, whatever works best for ones analogy. (what actually works best for me, is that God remains at the very inner center of a spherical universe, with His Spirit being the INterconnection of all, in every direction possible, yet most "powerful" on the straight-line "INner"path between Him and the "person" or aspect INvolved)(God "thus" being "Omni-directional")
Thus God being BOTH the grantor of (at Alpha) such "choices" of Energy and Anti-Energy for us to use, He is also the recipient of our choices, as well as the final "judge" of what to do with the results in the "end" (at Omega). Such a God is at Alpha (+=-) standing in the center of the source of all as (=).
God then also sends OUT into creation at the very same time, and continuously, the Spiritual (=) aspect of HimSelf "right down the very center of all, in a direct line INstantaneous connection ... that being the INternal "short-cut" path to and with God for those in creation that desire that immediate and real time INteraction via Spirit (=) ...
The latter being those such as myself who "tired" of the previous "disconnection" of duality (+/-). I, as an ego self in physical body, am still here manifested as before on earth, but the difference being that now, with my Spiritual "Knowing", I know myself to "be" here, but NOT "from" here, my "source" now known to be "cosmic" (UNIversal) (yet sourced from the "micro" perception of the INternal) IMnsHO.
Thus I now "operate" in "partnership" (the bride of Christ ?) with Soul (Spirit of God) ... lower self of ego subservient to, but not resisting or fighting, nor a "slave" of, my higher Self-Soul-Spirit of God ... the former (-) aspect of ego me, relating hopefully a little "more" (but NOT a LOT more) to the (+) of God resulting in the (=) of Spirit.
Yet ... for all of the most of humanity manifested physically on earth, relating dualistically (+/-) to ego concepts of separation without Spirit (=) ... they can, and should, IF they so choose, continue on operating within the Religious concept of Duality where the divine is seen as "above or out-there somewhere" while they as "sinners" (believed "saved" or not) continue on that "OUTer" circumference of the "surface" of the God concept ...
Thus from the "world" view of duality, the peoples here related to "that" (+/-) way of thinking, will eventually, probably soon, take that same concept or philosophy OUT INto space itself ... and there they will meet up with others from other "systems" who will be of "like mind" (a factor of what goes around comes around) who will also have a dualistic view of mistrust and fear, maybe even hatreds, and weapon systems to match their thinking, and there the conflicts and battles will expand along with our "civilization" wherever we go ... business as usual ... forever, until one or more "see the light" of God's Spirit as a (=) ... rather than some "end of the rainbow pot of gold super positivity (+) called "perfection" that is basically unreachable from that "OUTer" route ...
Those that eventually learn their "lessons" of earth teaching about "cause and effect", will become (=) oriented while still utilizing the "nearer" (+) AND (-)s ... enjoying their present experience so much more, and in knowing they are now eternal spiritually, they may well expect their next "experience" (incarnation ?) to be oh so much "better" ! ...
At least IMnsHO.
As I understand your terms:
The Dualistic view: (+/-) places God (good) and Satan (evil) on opposites ends of the philosophical/ideological/theological spectrum with God represented as (+) and Satan represented as (-); the extreme opposites. Good and evil are a constant without compromise. (+/-) is the world view. That is dualistic, (non-spiritual) exoteric.
(+/-)<(+=-)
Your Pluralistic view: Where the Spirit (=) is the bridge between opposite forces (+) &
(-) between the Trinity (= = =) thus (+=-) form. (+ = -) is your universal view. That is your Trinitarian, (Spiritual) esoteric. The trinity with (God) the creator/Alpha and Omega, having created Light from the darkness, is at the center between His two opposing forces.
As I understand the variables’ of the two above contrasting points of view, the latter provides a more universal constant of God’s perfection for us, but for me with the following understanding of what I see as God’s intent.
1. There is nothing to fear of evil in (-) if we are one with God and his teachings at (+).
2. God’s laws would be universally understood and accepted by all – anywhere and everywhere through space and time.
3. We should never let our guard down or underestimate the uncompromising influences of evil in the (-). Evil is relentlessly influential in its determination to oppose anything that is good and clean. It will do and say anything for its purposes. Its manipulative and devious tactics can effectively seduce the most unsuspecting among us.
4. Evil must be rejected at all costs for our salvation, with the gray areas recognized and rejected for their imperfections and diluting of truth.
5. (=) is perfection (= = =) infinite knowledge; a holy, unique area held in reserve for the pure, ultimate, unique perfection of The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
6. (+) and (-) are the choices God has given to us to establish and provide purpose within God’s perfection, or the opposite thereof in our lives for conscious realization of universal truth. The gray areas would therefore place us in a state of limbo somewhere between the (+’s) & (-‘s) of human indecision to justify one’s own self serving materialistic worldly interests. Compromise is not an option if we truly embrace truth along with the knowledge that we can’t have it both ways and still be truly one with God.
7. Universal truth cannot stand if the truth itself is manipulated and compromised in any way. Therefore, God’s truth must remain a constant.
Also, your symbol (+ = -) reads PLUS (good) EQUALS = MINUS (evil). Maybe your infinity symbol (8) instead of (=) would be a better choice to further avoid confusion. (+ 8 -).
For any hope of your universal symbol being accepted universally, it must first be able to convey a full understanding of its constituent parts based entirely on an ability to comprehend and accept the concept. Gray areas become too convoluted, indecisive, and confusing to create any symbol that represents universal truth.
To that end, and if I were to sum up your symbol (+ = -), for me it would mean, ‘The experience of complete universal truth between the opposing forces of Light and darkness; good and evil; right and wrong according to the word of God.’
How would you say it?
God Bless and Good Light!
What I would call DUALISTICALLY (+/-).
In Dualism there are NO GREY AREAS ALLOWED, because one must make a choice between TWO NATURAL EXTREMES of consideration … For a Dualist, that may well be between Life and Death, God and Satan, or a God and no God, or just such a small act of a personal momentary consideration about anything, as a yes (+) or a no (-) decision.
The more selfish a person is in their personal ego definitions of disconnectivity to others, the less concern and compassion for others there is. Then any such relationships with others becomes a matter of pragmatism as to what is in it that best serves the self, first and foremost. This then becomes an extremely individualistic pursuit of life, complete freedom from all … at least that would be the ego view and selfish desire of self serving priority. Such a person would be clinically diagnosed as a psychopath. Such extreme selfishness being for sure a pathology of the mind.
Two such people in a relationship with others, would compete using others for their personal gain. Two such people in relationship with each other only, would compete to the destruction of the other. Relative (+/-)s where each considered itself the (+) and the other the (-).
Such is the condition of mankind in Dualistic thought taken to the extremes that dualism dictates when middle ground grey areas of an allowable unknowing are banned. Only in that grey area (that exoteric dualistic Religions call “fence sitting”) can there be at least a temporary truce, a relative peace required to figure out the best decision for a better future, one that may often require a compromise, something a true dualist prefers not to do, wanting it always only his way.
Because (I maintain) we do have a Trinity Brain, the Left side (+) logic-rational male dominate, and the Right side (-) more intuitively emotional female dominate … being (+/-) when considered uncooperative with each other (sides) … yet in fact and truth, in normal people there is really a bridge between them interconnecting via the corpus-callosum which would allow the balancing of the two differing halves (+=-).
Thus we each and all DO use both sides of our brains, but some use one side more than the other, which affects their dispositions to think and act in certain ways. We seldom take these factors into conscious consideration, we just do what we do without such thought and/or concern.
Thus most dualistic egos are not pathological about it, though some may well be much more selfish than others, most are just what we all call “normal”. Such “normality” seems to be the “gold standard” for most of humanity … and it is most often still very much Dualistic … in comparison to the conscious Trinity recognition of the Spirit of God as (=) in ones life as (+=-).
The gaining of true Spirituality, the actual conscious INterconnection, brings into play the bridging (=) of the corpus-callosum, fully balancing the two halves of our brain into “whole brain” (+=-) usage. This can happen in one of two ways, by either recognizing the potential of achieving that balance and working towards it, resulting in the reception of the Spirit of God into ones life as a completion, or, receiving the Spirit of God into ones life first, which automatically makes the full connection, changing a relative duality (+/-) into a Trinity (+=-).
As I understand your understanding of my terms, as you defined them (+=-)>(+/-) … we are in agreement on that … at least the meaning of the symbols … EXCEPT FOR … what you call the TWO OPPOSING FORCES … such as in a Dualistic concept of being opposing with no choice otherwise, essentially an eternal DICHOTOMY.
Dichotomy is what dualism brings into the picture via the Gap-Void of (/) in (+/-).
Complete Freedom to choose as one desires and fully knowing the expected rewards and/or consequences that will result, is what one gets when they do away with Duality by bringing Spirit (=) and thus Trinity (+=-) into their life.
The Trinity allowing then the cooperation, and/or the opposition … but it then becomes a matter of choice with full awareness which amounts to self responsibility. Thus the Golden Rule will be practiced with full assurance that it works. Then if one desires to be overly selfish and very nasty and mean even, it is God via Spirit that assures that karmically that person will be paired with another that seeks , or requires for learning of the Souls experience, that relationship. That then frees up the rest of us “believers” to know and relax in the assurance (by God) that there are no such things as accidents and “innocent” victims … that when one has the entirety of God’s Trinity in mind, they have no reason to be guilty, ashamed, or fearful about anything.
They then know themselves to be a “perfected” human being in the sense that they are complete and whole (balanced) in every way. Satisfied in knowing that what goes around will come around (karmically) they can be as they want … and that will most often be “good” because that is our natural God inherited trait and “quality” …
But the KEY to all of this, is to NOT put God on some extreme pedestal of Positive Only Good (+) as an ULTIMATE (+) … even though God IS that on a relative and comparative basis with NOT GOD as (-) … that is only a Dualistic View of (+/-). A very NON-SPIRITUAL View.
Spirit as (=) IS THE VERY GREY AREA IN between (+/-) which is what DUALISTS claim to avoid and Spiritual Trinitarians revel in.
To be thus that Spiritual in no way precludes one from seeking to “better” themselves, to seek for whatever extreme of “considered” perfection they desire, it only assures them that if they put down, or step on, another in the process, that there will be a price to be paid. It also assures them that cooperation between natural diversities will have greater rewards in win-win scenarios of synergistic creation.
My view of God then is that of a completely SELF CONFIDENT REALITY of the full potentials of ALL and/or NOTHING … having GIFTED creation with the FREE CHOICE of swimming or sinking, of creating or destroying, of loving or fearing and hating, … whatever we decide … that is what non-judgmental Unconditional Love is all about … something for everyone … and accidents to fear. Thus God HAS NO INTENT and NO RULES.
We thus have been granted the full freedom to believe and think, and thus act, just as we want to … which is not all that different than most do today anyway. It is just that most take their chances as a 50/50 gamble.
A relative very few of us knowing God as (+=-) live life with assurance, joy without fear, trusting Spirit and loving the process .
1. There is nothing to fear from evil when the Spirit of God is right in-between you and it. In fact you and evil can be friends and cooperate synergistically BECAUSE there, next to Spirit, there really IS NO EVIL other than POTENTIAL EVIL, which would be much nearer to the polar extreme of (-) and where the REAL GOD intervenes.
Meaning that with Spirit, the path through life of true righteousness can be taken in the outer direction of (+) through a materialistic physical life, seeking the ultimate “perfection” of “Godliness” to the best of ones ability and desire … BUT never really getting there while condemning and warring with the (-), because to do so, you would have to condemn and war with God’s Spirit who is always between yourself and comparative evil (-).
God’s Spirit as (=) is NOT about win/lose, it is about win/win, it has no favorites. It is not about exclusion, it is about inclusion, it is not about war, it is about peace, it is not about fear, it is about love.
2. True, except that the ONLY LAW is the LAW of KARMA … cause has effect, as you give so ye shall receive , to do unto others as you would have them do unto you, and the like.
3. Only applies to those Dualists that seek extremes of (+) without Spirit as (=).
4. False.
5. True.
6. The first sentence is true. After that, false.
7. True … to the degree that one realizes that God is only a “relative” (+) compared to a relative (-), that when all is said and done, that God is ONLY knowable by other, or another, based upon (+=-). That being THE TRUTH of the universe which IS God. (panentheism)
(+=+) and/or (-=-) … as we were all taught in grade school, is all about divisive separation and reduces down to duality as (+/-) and most often confused with “valuations” when it should just denote natural differences.
The Inclusion of God’s Spirit as (=) will mean NOT ONLY EQUAL,. but EQUAL BUT OPPOSITE. I realize that possibly an infinity symbol could sometimes be more useful, but my PC has no such symbol that I can use … besides, it seems quite simple to me to expect others to at least accept the meaning I give for it in (+=-).
The “grey areas” rejected by Dualists MUST be considered closer to an acceptable neutral in order to find the Spirit of God (=) there. The alternative, of seeking God as a (+) extreme, will take the “outer” route, that of a non-spiritual eternity (actually that which exoteric religions really promise, truth be known) IMnsHO.
How would I “say” it ?
I would most assuredly include the symbolization of (+=-), which to me says it all when Spirit is considered as I intend (=).
The Universal Truth of God, consists of a Trinity of wholeness, utilizing the full range of potentials, both positive (+) as well as negative (-), for creation and/or destruction, presented to humanity via unconditional love (=), involving the Spirit of God as an “equalizer”, symbolized as (=), to be used in between the differences of (+) AND (-), thereby symbolizing God and Spirit as a Trinity function of (+=-) … thereby replacing, and thus transcending, world Dualistic thinking involving (+/-), where the Void and Gap (/) of misunderstanding and distrust, presently seen as the divisiveness that so often results in fear and conflict, can be replaced, resulting in cooperative and synergistic creation via natural diversities of great differentiation, formerly competing.
Such a Trinity granting us our free will usage to do with as we desire for our experiential learning of that Basic Equation of Truth, the BET as (+=-) … which is ultimately the Theory of Everything.
Anyway, thanks for the pressure forcing me to elaborate upon this most important matter. I have no doubt that it can be much further refined one of these days. That is quite hard to do when the world is so indoctrinated as they are with Dualistic ideations.
I wish you nothing but the very best Simon … thanks for the communications … I think that this thread could well be useful to help explain these concepts for future readers. I have book marked it. Please feel to further comment at any time.
Peace, j.
PS … just a reminder that there are free downloads of my book on my website at www.spiritcalls.us, crude but serviceable as it is. :-)
Should have read:
and NO accidents to fear.
In many ways and examples, God has provided us with choices to live our lives, His way, or the other way. Unlike God, we humans are imperfect and flawed. We complicate things everywhere we can in search of answers to age old questions like, “Is this all that I am - is there nothing more?” We mostly know right from wrong and yet we create the gray areas to justify OUT OWN selfish agenda. If gray areas were part of God’s plan, He would have made them so from the beginning. More and more I understand why God said, “The meek shall inherit the earth.” Their uncomplicated understanding of God’s purpose for us is simple and easy for them to understand and accept.
What I have attempted to point out here is that there are basic principles between a business negotiation; or a simple disagreement between a husband and wife, or friends, or world peace, etc., to win a position or argument, point of view, semantic debate on merits, and the like and universal truth, as opposed to a self serving agenda where winning at all costs becomes the primary objective; the differences between right and wrong. There are always underlining influences at work that attempt to cloud and distort the truth regardless of the playing field. These gray areas are untruths using any means, and at any cost to win unconditionally. Evil plays by no rules - that’s its nature.
All humans have (+’s) and (-‘s); the traditional non-aggressive/aggressive traits within us. It makes us who and inevitably what we are. The non-aggressive is a God-full peace while the aggressive constantly pushes and pulls at the very fiber of our conscience attempting to convince us that it makes no difference in the end. For evil, winning at any cost is everything.
On a more basic level, in any negotiation, getting somewhere near center where both sides agree on principle to the details is a must for any mutual acceptance on the terms and eventual closing of a deal.
On a moral level, compromise becomes a fraud of conviction and a distortion of truth itself which is God’s truth that He has given to us. Morality and immorality are what they are in direct and total contrast as opposites. We just can’t have it both ways and call ourselves moral.
(+): Provides truth, peace, love, hope, enlightenment, and hearts desire.
(-): Serves to drag us down into the pit of mediocrity and it will keep us there, but only as long as we permit it to be so.
(=) God wants us to fully understand the choice He has given us – with Him or against Him and therefore sits at center in judgment of us. Wouldn’t it be interesting if there were reincarnation, wherein we would have to come back over and over again until we get it right?
( ) To blur the facts at some perceived neutral ground is to reject or distort the truth.
Again, what could possibly be the point of center (a compromise) between good and evil when they are both so diametrically, philosophically, and theologically opposed? It would be like trying to force a round ball into a square peg. It just won’t fit. This hypothetical center would render our existence one big free-for-all that would inevitably destroy us into nothingness. Just look at what is happening in our world today. One only has to look around to find that we exist somewhere in the middle, edging more and more to (-), compromising our salvation later for our own mundane self interests today. Can one truly and completely believe in God while behaving badly? How can anyone justify a flawed existence? Harmony can not come from chaos by itself without a majority of people understanding the good of God and making it so. Evil, by its very nature perverts anything that is God’s good for the sole purpose of dominating and dragging our souls into the darkest recesses of nothingness. To be or not to be – that really is the question and choice we all have. The problem for some is to truly understand the concept. Of course everyone wants to BE what they consider to be important; something that gives them purpose based on their narrow understanding of a worldly view. To BE one with God is all that we truly need. Once we have that, everything else falls into place and in focus. With the choices for good or evil, some perceived center isn’t possible because truth can’t exist within a vacuum of these combined, incompatible extremes. We would only be fooling ourselves to believe otherwise.
The plusses and minuses are knowledge of the facts. Any deviation or alteration of the facts would create an untruth, which is very different from an optimist thinking of a glass half full of water in contrast to a pessimist thinking of the same glass as half empty. Morals or the lack thereof are based on God’s universal truth and cannot be altered.
Being at center with evil puts us all on a collision course with evil with an outcome so horrific that it can only be imagined.
Idealistically speaking, and being the eternal optimist, I see a future world based entirely on God’s will for us in His Light where no evil or darkness exists. Maybe that can only exist in Heaven; time will tell. God created Light from darkness and it was good. For a better world, it must all begin with a personal journey with God.
Jerry, maybe for now we should both think about the merits we have presented here, and take a pause from the impasse we face at this time. Hopefully, others will pick up where we left off and provide some new insight into this issue for us to contemplate and then perhaps we can revisit the subject at some later date.
I must say that I enjoyed our stimulating debate and the merits from which they originated.
It ain't rocket science . . . but it works for me . . . ; )
So I agree fully with you that we have probably exhausted the discussion for now and it would do us well to rest about it with the words still there for future review should any be interested ... I very much appreciate your taking the time and interest Simon to hear me out ... that alone is a giant step for mankind to attempt to better understand each other in our search for highest truth and peace.
All my best to you, j.
PS ...but in parting here, I am compelled to repeat a primary issue that "could possibly" resolve your concerns about the resolution of dichotomies such as good and evil ... that being what I stressed all along and which you may have missed ... or you did not and just disagree, no problem ... that being that in the very most infinite extremes of Good (+) and Evil (-) there IS God as the max (+)(ALL) on one side, and the max (-)(NO-THING) on the other side, but right in the middle (center of all of that is God as the (=) that differentiates the maximums.
Then in the "other end" (where the "minimums" are before they get a chance to "grow") of those considerations, right in the very center of our own mind/brain, the place we decide either direction, is our INtuitive Soul as the Spirit of God (=) ... at least for those aware and awake to it ... a requirement for it to work best. Thus when we are aware and cooperating with Spirit (=) there, in that here/now space/time moment of decision making between right and wrong, the Spirit sees to it that we make the best choice as long as we do our best otherwise and trust it so ... if we goof up and make a mistake, we will be "notified" by the immediate results (if we are looking for it) and we can then modify accordingly ... with time it gets easier and easier and ever more accurate and dependable.
Most people are muddling through life doing either their best, or something less, but most are NOT factoring in a God of (=) ... if at all, it is a God of max (+) as we have been instructed by religions all these years ... or if secular, just an ego also considered (+) ... with a relationship to only (+) we have to either ignore, or fight, the "other", the (-) ... there is no way around it ... except with God (=) at the outer "limits", and Spirit (=) at the innermost aspect of ourSelf.
God-Spirit does resolve dichotomy, only they can do so ... we can also with their help. :-)
In your article, you lead with a question:
Is our world on a collision course with evil, traversing a road to the extinction of the human race?
And then proceed with a litany of misery and mayhem. Through it all, you make no mention of God's presence in His world, nor His providence. Have you forgotten that God is sovereign and continues to work His good plan even from our mistakes and evil acts? Have you overlooked His promises? Sadly, even many who profess to believe in God, live their lives in fear and desperation, really evincing a brand of practical atheism. . .
And when the disciples saw him walking on the sea, they were troubled, saying, It is a spirit; and they cried out for fear.
But straightway Jesus spake unto them, saying, Be of good cheer; it is I; be not afraid.
Matthew 14:26-27
I'll bet if you look around you less and look up a bit more, you'll brighten up. . .
Cheers! -Mark
What Jerry and I have been exploring in the above dialogue is an exchange of ideas and thoughts in the hope of finding a universal symbol of contrasts (+’s & -‘s), in the hope to perhaps better understand God’s intent for us.
I understand and respect what he is trying to say and do in his effort to think outside the box. God creating Light from darkness does place Him at the center (=) of His universe; at the center all things. From His tree of knowledge, God wants us to understand truth, the options, and choices we ultimately have to make in this life.
Jerry, the ‘gray areas’ I referred to were used to only describe a human position that attempts, within a decision making process, to justify self serving interests. I can’t see God in any gray area. To do so would wrongly diminish His perfection. I can see Him at center (=) of your symbol as the creator of everything; the Alpha and the Omega. Then at opposite ends of center are the choices He has given us.
On a human level, referring to your example of, “(+) logic-rational male dominate, and the Right side (-) more intuitively emotional female dominate … being (+/-) when considered uncooperative with each other (sides) … yet in fact and truth, in normal people there is really a bridge between them interconnecting via the corpus-callosum which would allow the balancing of the two differing halves (+=-),” is more clinical than spiritual. It seems to me that these are two different topics and mostly unrelated to the bigger picture of perfection in contrast to imperfection or even between right and wrong. However, I also believe if two people are one with God, problems are easily bridged and resolved.
For those who recognize the potential of achieving a whole brain balance with God which would result in the reception of the Spirit of God into ones life as a completion, or, receiving the Spirit of God into ones life first, which automatically makes the full connection, changing a relative duality (+/-) into a Trinity (+=-) is an enlightened view of making a choice for God. But what if, instead, the choice is for evil?
It is evil, in its relentless efforts to deceive and corrupt its victims that we find ourselves in a world of chaos and crisis. Evil can never be trusted under any conditions or circumstances. Compromise is never an option for evil or evil intentions. To even attempt such a thing would go completely against its very nature. Evil is constantly pounding us with its deceptively seductive lure, usually packaged in a perceived guise of good for its ultimate control over us.
Evil itself becomes victorious on any compromise of God’s ultimate purpose for us. If that’s what you refer to as DUALISTICALLY (+/-), then so be it.
It’s not difficult to understand your theory or concept. It’s within any compromise of that concept that strays away from, or clouds the truth that I can’t accept. For your symbol to have any credibility and substance, it must be accepted as a universal understanding of its entire meaning, and must satisfy all doubt. To that end, I have attempted to act as a catalyst to explore all of the implications of your thesis and vision.
There is no doubt in my mind that what goes around comes around. Unfortunately, sometimes the damage and suffering persists longer than we hoped it would before justice is eventually served. “Revenge is mine,” said the Lord. If we don’t let go of our negative feelings, it will consume us.
God is put on a pedestal by the godly because that’s where perfection should be. There are others who choose to put Satan on a plinth where they worship money and power at all costs. Any attempt for these two completely opposing forces to find a compromise at center would only negate God, His teachings and perfection. In this impossible scenario, evil then eventually becomes the victor, even if only by attrition. These two extremes will forever exist as a constant reminder of our imperfections in this life.
If God as you say HAS NO INTENT and NO RULES, then what would be the point of His teachings? God doesn’t FORCE anything ON us. He has given us a choice between the extremes of our reality and existence which in turn becomes consequential to who and what we turn out to be. His intent is in HOPING we make the right CHOICE and His RULES are a road map to that end. After all He IS the beginning and the end.
I have a problem with any compromise on ethics, morals, right, and wrong based on God’s teachings. How could anyone presume to have a better answer beyond God’s perfection?
For me, any universal acceptance of your symbol (+ = -) needs a universal theme based on a spirituality sound foundation.
Or, represented as a strictly non-spiritual symbol of pros and cons to reach an equitable compromise between two needs, or opposing points of view.
When spiritually connected to God, without compromise, we have made the choice for God while rejecting anything contrary to His teachings. As a result for me, your symbol as a universal symbol for everything including God, would look and read something like this:
1. ( = ) God, the Alpha and Omega at center; ( = = = ) includes The Trinity.
2. (+) Choosing God: All good things are possible.
3. (-) Choosing evil: Untruths, deceptions, manipulations, and chaos inevitably result.
4. (+ € ) One with God at center.
5. (- ? ) The opposite of all that is good and true remaining separate and distanced from God’s perfection.
? = ?
[ + € - ? ]
Therefore, reaching center with God can only be possible when we walk with God and accept His way without compromise. Then and only then can any problem be solved equitably. At that point there can be no fear or doubt in the knowledge of truth being a universal constant.
Center cannot be achieved on any assumed compromise between good and evil because such a compromise of God’s teachings would work contrary to who He is, and His intent of only good for all of us.
To enable us to rise above our imperfections, we need God’s complete perfection to show us the way.
My intent was to present a world as a result of the consequences of our actions. Personally, I believe if more people believed in God we would have a better world.
No, I could never overlook His promises. If you read the article again you will see that its purpose was for us to focus on all the good things people do in their lives. As I wrote, “It would be refreshing, to say the least, if there were a news program that focused on all the good things people do every day where we could be inspired by their contributions to the advancement of our civilization and humankind. But, I'm told that nobody would watch - would you?” Since nobody commented on that question, I guess few really care or would watch such a program.
I also asked the question, “Do you think positive thinking and its uplifting influences' impact our lives resulting in raising us up into the Light, in contrast to the negative heaviness that drags us down into the darkness?”
“Imagine millions of Internet voices and petitions making a difference for a better world.”
Since you don’t know me, I can see how you might think that my article is an extension of my state of mind. LOL. I assure you it’s not. The article was actually intended to generate positive thinking. Instead of the constant bombardment of negativity we get form the media, it was intended to offer an alternative; a proposal of recognition and celebration of the determination of the human spirit.
Mark, I’ve been called the eternal optimist. I look up all the time.
I will address your words as best as I can here issue by issue, not as an attempt to argue-debate, or change your mind, but as an attempt to interject some aspect of conceptual importance that shows just why the BET (+=-)>(+/-) works for me.
With a quick read through your comment, it seems to me that you are not allowing the distinctions I make between God and God’s Spirit … God as ( ) and God AND Spirit as (=) … meaning to me for the sake of “differentiation” as to “function” (as I envision it Trinity wise).
Said God being at Alpha ( ) … during the life of creation itself ( ) (note relative size spacing) and “back” (the “finality”) at Omega again ( ).
A “relative” Trinity (or Triad) of conditions that “would” be defined, in order, two different ways, depending upon the “intended” meaning of the definer and how they “valued” the meanings of the “effectiveness” between + and - .
Thus considering that God at Alpha began with nothing (-) [one has to remember to intuitively seek the “meanings” of the parenthesis ( ) as to when they are meant to be “just that, parenthesis,” and when they are meant to denote the Totality of said Creation etc. with the relationships within. Within my book I attempted to use both parenthesis and brackets differently to make those distinctions, I have been lazy here on Gather in that regard hoping the readers could figure it out.]
Beginning again … the God at Alpha began with nothing (-) (not considering Himself) … then much later, the relative end of said “eternity”, at the very Omega end of creations “return” back to God, there would then be (hopefully) an “all” that was (+) in the sense of “value added,” via experience and final realization by all of such truth.
Had “things” (during creation) went the “other” way, such as that all of said creation remained “sinners” and warred to destruction destroying each other, then the entire beginning/ending scenario would have be relatively “reversed” in sign, as the “better” of the two being a (+) beginning and the ending being the (-), a “value subtracted” experience. The opposite of what it was all “supposed” to be all about, yet just what could happen based upon our free will choice should we be so stupid. In the extremes, the ALL (+) of God … or … the Nothing (-), a Heaven (+) or a Hell (-). (dualistically thinking).
Having spoken here above of the two relative beginnings and endings of creation, let us now speak of that within the duration of said creation, the (+=-) where the symbols ( ) denote the “outer” (universal) “limits” (for all practical purposes) of said God, and the “potentials” of all, good, love, light, etc are the (+) withIN … and conversely the potentials of the required opposite is then of nothing, bad, fear, darkness, etc. being the (-) withIN … BUT …. Most importantly … IN between both of “them/those” is the Spirit of God as the (=) … all together making up the Trinity of God as (+=-) !!!
Simon, I think that the above should differentiate better the differences in our two views of symbolic relationships where you seem to equate God and Spirit as one and the same because effectively they are … unless ‘needed” to be defined as separate factions/aspects as I do to better explain the “working” relationships Trinity-wise.
These “distinctions” are important to me in the greater picture in that God cannot be “known” in His “fullness” by us during our lifetime … BUT … He can be fully known as is humanly adequate by His Spirit during life.
This leaves the potential fullness of Omega, the hopefully (+) version, awaiting us at the end of eternity, yet allowing us to have a Spiritual relationship during. Thus I put Spirit (=) as right withIN everything, the very strongest and most effective at the very center of every natural truth of and in creation (+=-).
Thus we consider God to be “author” of the story (creation) and Spirit to be the “words” … and possibly then it is up to each of us to make our “meanings” of those “words” acting accordingly for good or ill …
But where I see our own INtuitions as being the connection to God’s Spirit through our INternal higher Self, our Soul, and knowing that to be Spirit (=) transcendent to the physical ego, lower self (-) in a Trinity INternal connection that gives us each the Spiritual (=) “guidance” towards what is “best” (+) for us personally, considering the totality of creation … thus when muddling around in those “grey areas” there is always the Spirit of God that is our own Intuition available to best direct us for the greatest good overall …
That as compared to say a “Religious” memorization of dogma as to morals needed to guide us via a “thinking” remembrance of decision making by our ego (lower self) moment by moment based upon what we have been “taught” that God “wants from us”. This is the only workable concept available for a Spiritually “disconnected” ego self, a very “dualistic” concept between said self as (-) and God as (+) … with no known Spiritual INvolvement.
We must always remember that at the very extreme end of choice (potentials) is God as the “final” arbitrator, the final decision maker, even “judge” if you must. Yet in every moment by moment decision making process there is “the grey” area of possible choice that requires something to base said choice upon … either as I said, a remembrance of moral “rules” (exoteric methodology), or the real-time INteractive relationship with Spirit INtuitively (esoteric methodology), duality as (+/-) or Trinity as (+=-) relationships.
A very important point in all of this is that exoterically (commonly), “perfection” is held to be always out of reach for the individual, as something that only God or divinity can attain … even though a dictionary definition of perfection means “whole and complete in every way”, a dualistic ego view that considers and allows God, always thinks of himself as far less (-), than perfection (+), because such a person does not realize a Spiritual (=) relationship that would make him whole and “perfect” as a “hu-man” (god-man) esoterically and Trinity-wise (+=-).
Conversely, an ego that has no God/Spiritual concerns whatsoever, may well consider himself “selfishly” as “perfect” as needed to be … that being a strictly egotistical (and very exoteric) view also.
And all of the above having been only brought on related to your first paragraph … I will now proceed further.
This brings me to your concept of “Clinical” versus “Spiritual” … which to me is but the difference in perception between two ways of looking at the very same issue or thing … one objectively (clinical) via ego views based upon the normal 5 sensory concepts that are relatively dualistic and exoteric, basically dealing in the manifestations of physicality and related “views”. … the other then belonging to the Spiritual, which is subjective, INtuitive (6th sensory), of the mind (rather than just brain), and esoteric in comparison, religiously “mystical”.
As for your question about making the choices between good (+) and evil (-) … my answer is that when trusting and working with your INtuition as being the actual representative of God as God’s Spirit (=), you know yourself (ego, lower self) to be always seeking the “highest truth” most beneficial over-all … meaning that you trust God to direct you in the best possible way for the best possible good … which could theoretically even be the giving up of your own life in some extreme scenarios, in which case you would trust God in knowing that you had eternal (Spiritual) life anyway. Let go and let God if and when all else fails.
If one has such a relationship with God, then one expects to make well meaning mistakes on occasion, but he also trusts God to show him the evidence of said mistakes as a trial and error learning process … God knows our minds and intentions and will work with us accordingly to the best overall outcome.
The above is also true conversely in the instances where people trend towards the “evil” side (-) of things as like begets like, and what you think, will become your “reality” … and if it is (-) you choose, it will be (-) that you will receive back … to the degree that you think you want … until you come to realize that you do not want and then change your way of thinking and acting to receive other by giving out other. It is called free will or free agency … as you sow so shall you reap, what goes around comes around … and those who prefer, sick as it is, can “sell their souls to the devil”, so to speak.
It is my firm conviction that Christianity has long ago taken it’s followers down a road of duality (+/-) … where the primary consideration then becomes the relationship of only two major considerations, that of good (+) and evil (-) …
Then in considering God as “naturally” good (+) in comparison with evil (-), they cannot then “separate” the two … and in wanting to have a “personal” relational concept with God as Love, they are forced to personify the Fear of evil into a Satan or Devil as the “contender” of God. (+/-). Dualism.
In order to make sense out of that and make it work in the dualistic sense for the earth’s egos, they created the person of Jesus Christ as the son of God (a (+) god in my view) to contend with Satan (a (-) god) … giving the people then a choice, either Christ or Satan with Christ being the “doorway” to God and thus effectively the “same as” God for all “practical” purposes … but confusing so many as to real meanings of the differences.
Only by making God (and Spirit) the needed total potentials of relationship, the (=) right in between the choices of (+) and (-) can one give free will choice to a human being to experience what it takes to freely, by experience, not force, make the best choice for his eternal future. It needs be understood that God via Spirit keeps track of all, an accounting principle called Karma in eastern concepts and applicable to all. Via Karma in the bigger picture of eternity and many potential life experiences, one can be assured that there will be no accidents or victims in the sense that whatever happens, there is a cause and effect spiritual reason for it … all a part of the “master plan” of our learning and teaching experience according to the will of God.
Speaking again of “the will of God” … we can conclude that He spoke through certain beings over historic time who were in turn supposed to “instruct” us as to what his will for us was … hence the Bible and many other books … but those were meant to be “guidelines” NOT “laws” IMnsHO.
If one allows that the Spirit of God as (=) is right withIN them Intuitively, they can trust the “grey areas” as the area of personal compromise that CONSTANTLY LEADS via said Spirit TOWARDS the most (+) that IS SUITABLE for them AT EACH MOMENT in time … eventually leading them in due time to their most (+) result … BUT … this is important to me … NOT making an enemy of and conflicting with the (-) in the process and “polarizing” it into an extreme differential … by relying on the love of Spirit (=) to stay in the middle between you desiring (+) and the undesired (-), the Spirit (=) at the very same time can move and transform the (-) right along with you for the greater overall good. There is then really no “compromise” or “appeasement” on your part, just a trusting in Spirit … rather than seeing that Spirit on your extreme side and you wanting to “follow” it, allow that it is on your “other” side, the (-) side and just nudging you along “ahead” of it … it will determine then just where you should be and at what rate of movement it should take to get there. Trust it !
As for your symbolic definitions, some of the symbols I do not have on my keyboard and am therefore not familiar with.
The symbols I have provided over the course of this discussion and in my book seem to work best for my intentions and I have the fullest confidence in their meanings based upon those intentions, as being the REAL TRUTH of our UNIVERSE … (+=-) > (+/-) with the latter being the world misunderstanding. IMnsHO.
Thanks again for the opportunity to communicate Simon … at least our “record” of having done so will be here on Gather for to help someone else hopefully better understand … j.
Said God being at Alpha ( ) … during the life of creation itself ( ) (note relative size spacing) and “back” (the “finality”) at Omega again ( ).
Clearly anyone who gets pleasure out of hurting another person is evil. From within the murky waters of their polluted cesspool; somewhere within their mundane existence and perverse thinking, they somehow get pleasure out of this. They know that they’re possibly destroying a person’s livelihood; records, valuable and perhaps irreplaceable files. They should be found, tried, and hopefully convicted and then locked up somewhere within nothingness.
I’m almost certain that the technology exists to find these demons of inequity but they won’t because these monsters have created multi-billion dollar businesses. We are forced to buy anti-virus protection and other related software, while we as victims continue to be manipulated by special outside interests. These other businesses would otherwise not exist were it not at our expense. The puppeteers continue to pull all of our strings while they laugh all the way to the bank.
It’s these guys and others in, I think, the 85% bracket of the population that need
(+/-). They are constantly creating the gray areas to justify their own selfish, self-serving interests usually at the expense of others. They wouldn’t know truth if it hit them between the eyes.
I’m thinking that unfortunately (+ = -) is more an intellectual ideal than a universal theme. People can’t understand the value of something if they’re unwilling or unable to comprehend it. Most people of this world can’t even choose the good (+) from only two choices (+/-) on how to live their lives in a positive way, yet alone trying to comprehend and recognize the destructive gray areas they have created for themselves between the pluses and minuses.
Jerry, I must say that this is the most comprehensive of all your comments and very well written. I’ve read it all very carefully now at least three times.
In paragraph 26 you wrote, “In order to make sense out of that and make it work in the dualistic sense for the earth’s egos, they created the person of Jesus Christ as the son of God…” Please explain what you mean by ‘they’?
I hope you understand that in principle I agree with the following:
(=) God at the center of all things. Includes the Trinity.
(+) God’s perfection.
(-) In contrast to all that is good; evil; the opposite of God’s perfection.
For me, the gray areas that people create for themselves would also fall under (-) because they become a distortion of truth.
The only difference I see between the two ways of thinking (+/-) and (+ = -) is that with (+ = -) puts (God = the Alpha and Omega) perfection at the center of all things with (+) (good) and (-) (evil) the choices He’s given us.
Adam and Eve didn’t know how good they had it in paradise because they didn’t have anything to compare it with. Why do you think God placed the Tree of Knowledge in the Garden of Eden and then told them that it was forbidden to eat from there? To exist without purpose is to merely subsist or just take up space. To have created us in His image He must have had a greater purpose for us and to that end he has given us the gift of life along with a challenge and choice.
To reject good is to reject the existence of God. And if God is eliminated what is left? This was the underlying point of the article.
Jerry, let’s go back to your comment where you gave me the impression that with your symbol of (+ = -) both (+) and (-) COULD compromise at center. My point is that they exist in truth and totality of what they represent. My view is that any compromise would turn truth into a lie. Could you please elaborate on this?
I will attempt to answer your latest concerns now and only hope that I do not too repetitiously repeat myself. I am sad that you had that virus problem and I agree with you about how much damage that can do to one and there being so little concern of the perpetrators.
Yes, (+=-)>(+/-) is not YET a world practice and thus only an intellectual ideal of a few and a reality for an even smaller few of which I am one of. But I do firmly believe it to be the truth of our universe for those advanced intellectual capabilities that surely must exist there in that greater realm which we are as yet unfamiliar with if not completely unaware of for the most part.
I believe that there may be a branching of the way for those who can utilize the concept and those who cannot, preferring to stay dualistic, the two groups will separate from each other for their “next” experience after this one … but we need not get into that.
You ask about paragraph 26 concerning “they” created the person of Jesus Christ as the son of God … wondering who I mean by “they” …
To me “they” were the framers of the early religion of Christianity and I would only hazard a rough guess that that involved the period from the Council of Nicaea around 324 AD through the period of the influence of Augustine of Hippo 354-430 … the “Official” Bible being formulated during that early period and the major “interpretations” of it’s “meanings” coming out of that and basically unchanged to this day by “orthodoxy” … even though there has been much revision of thinking and challenges made based upon later discoveries found and dug up since, where that shows there were many beliefs and practices such as those of the Essenes for example, that were well documented but were rejected by the “officials” approving the selections. IMnsHO.
Simon, as you lay out your acceptance of the symbols … I see an improvemental step ahead, in allowing that God is at the Center of everything … which to me stands for (+=-) where it is God who is the “parenthesis” and God’s Spirit that is the (=) sign at the center for this particular meaning.
Without the consideration of Spirit as (=) all we would be left with is the egoic view of separateness, that of duality (+/-) where the emphasis was always placed more on the extremes of everything, leading to polarization and conflict.
With Spirit (=) in the middle and center, in between (+) and (-) (good/evil, as you call it) we mere humans, not yet “all that” (+), RELATE to Spirit as an actual personal relationship, as with an “entity”, actually our own Soul as I see it, that knows us best personally and knows what is best for us on an individual basis … such “Spirit” is “effectively” God for us, but represented by our Spiritual (=) relationship … which for a “Christian,” from “my” perspective, would be what they call “Christ” … but more as a Spirit that Jesus the man had a relationship with, which connected Him to the Father God during His life here once He became aware of it during His baptism by John.
Thus the name “Christ” stands for a world (if not considering a universal) “title” which there has been built a dogma of religion around. The “only” (major) problem then, is the “exclusiveness” of it which as much as claims that non Christians, such as myself, can NOT connect with that very same Spirit (Christ) as a “generic” Spirit without a particular name involving ONLY Christianity … such a real Spirit could as well be named the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth, the Spirit of God, and even the “higher Self” as the Soul withIN which is transcendent to the lower self of ego.
But I suspect that if you are thoroughly indoctrinated with the orthodox Christian view that I have already lost you.
In the “grey areas” we can opt for the best that is suitable for us with the trust that Spirit will guide us in that selection … in that way, all we have to do is “lean” to the (+) side of our moment by moment decision making and it will be much more “realistic” for us and that much more “achievable” … of course in a 24/7 relationship all decisions are seen as Spiritual and thus we are constantly moving in the (+) direction … but closest to us, there, (-) is only a misguided friend … which if treated that way would never need become an actual enemy to contend with.
Adam and Eve in Paradise did not need Spirit ,because they had the Father God directly … but after the fall, the expulsion, then they did not have that direct connection and it was not until the Spirit (=) became available to mankind, could they be fully redeemed via (+=-).
As for the warning to not eat of the fruit of the tree … to me that was metaphoric for more than one thing … which I believe was basically a warning that IF they did what was not conducive to the then relationship with the Trinity they had with the Father (=), Adam (+) and Eve (-), (+=-) a “perfection”, that by seeking more than was readily available and “allowed”, they would ignore or disobey the (=) that bound all together, and would then thus be selecting duality (+/-) as their existence without God and/or Spirit.
Of course I personally believe that all of these things were already known by God to be in the process of taking place anyway, just a part of the overall plan for creation. What better way for us all to learn by trial and error the greater truths of Unity and our relationship with it … and especially the promise of the return to it FULLY at Omega.
For those that like the materialistic life better than a spiritual life, God grants them the experience and the ability to take it as far as they want … yet God knows that Karma accounts for and connects all into an eventual eternal balance so that nothing is ever really lost only transformed and leaving infinite potentials still within the universe and eternity … ain’t no one REALLY going anyplace away from God, they will only THINK so and that will be their free choice … they will always still be a part of God.
As for your concern about “compromise” … I think I covered that earlier … but look at it more as “cooperation” … when opposites cooperate for the same goal, in this case a Spiritual Relationship, they will CREATE a SYNERGY affect, where each will win and there will be no losers or sorrow … that is the beauty of operating in the center of (+=-) !!!
With Spirit involved there are relative truths such as (+) has it’s, and (-) has it’s, and God through Spirit KNOWS what’s what and as long as the differing “parts” are cognizant of the truth overall of that and do not seek to impose their truths by force upon others, then the creation is more peaceful and fruitful.
I will quit for now Simon and be happy to further add more later if needed … always remember, under (+=-) there is still even room for ego and it’s duality (+/-) … IMnsHO.
Peace, j.
As I’ve said, for me there can be no truth in gray areas. Any middle ground between good and evil would distort and manipulate the facts, rendering them both meaningless.
Because I’m a Christian and you are not does not mean that I don’t consider you a friend or that you have lost me. On the contrary, I value our time together exploring the possibilities, and the thoughts we both shared.
It is my hope that both of us have gained from this experience with our exchanges of ideas and thoughts. All I really need is to continue to walk with God. Doing that, everything else seems to fall into place. Ultimately for me, simplicity rules in the Light of God’s truth within our biologically finite lives.
Peace to you and yours.
Thanks again for the great dialogue, Peace, j.
"Why do you think God placed the Tree of Knowledge in the Garden of Eden and then told them that it was forbidden to eat from there?"
Well, no, it was "the tree of the knowledge of good and evil", which he told them not to "eat of the fruit of". One could , I believe, express that as; Don't be accepting your own mind's conclusions as if ultimate truth itself, when you consider what would be (+) or (-) for you . . . rather, obey God, He knows best what's (+) for you. If and when there is a greater (+) for you at any point, He will give it to you, you don't need to worry about that, He does.
Recall what the serpent promised . . . and said of God. A. and E. went and conceived of God as being not nice to them, and depriving them of something very (+), and as having lied to them. Conceiving of such a thing, is not the eating of the fruit, but in the instant that they acted on what they had conceived, that was the "eating" which changed everything. In that moment they separated themselves from God as He actually is, very loving and kind, not stingy and deceptive. They believed what they had imagined of God being (-), and that is not a healthy thing for a person to believe. It kinda destroys any incentive to do what is right, at all.
(Hey Jerry, you mean like this ( ) ? ; )
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I find it most interesting however that there was little interest in my article. I naively thought that there would be an effort from others to stand up and want to give positive recognition to the good and righteous among us. It gives one pause.
Yes again, Good and evil; right and wrong is clearly defined by God with no gray areas. He gives us the choice to choose from one or the other in our lives.
As you wrote, “Adam and Eve believed what they had imagined of God being (-), and that is not a healthy thing for a person to believe.” Yes, this can destroy any incentive to do what is right, but only if people don’t fully understand that God, being the Alpha and the Omega, created everything. He gave us a choice to live our lives in the Light or in the darkness. The choice is completely ours.
And for all of us I might add, gray areas are created in our minds for the sole purpose of serving our human self-interests and self-serving agendas; to justify and validate our actions.
God provides total truth and evil relentlessly works to attack and pervert its meaning; to pull us away from salvation and positive mastery over our lives and souls. If we truly believe in God and truly understood his pure love, then there would not be any need for inner turmoil, debate, or compromise on the merits.
For many it becomes a constant tug-of-war of self induced conflict that could be eliminated altogether if we would simply accept God's ultimate wisdom and knowledge unconditionally.
Eventually, we must choose one over the other to define who and what we ultimately become. Otherwise, to what end, or what point could be made to find any middle ground? To accept anything less than God's perfection would only diminish His perfection to imperfection and confusion. The end result would change His meaning and teachings completely, and then where would we be?
Thanks John for your contribution here.
That may be a myth, fostered by some who wish to justify violence. No doubt, there are folks s in those "other countries" telling people the very same things about you . . . so, let's see to it they are wrong. This we can do.
Then when religion insists that there is an active "personality" called a Satan or a devil vying for their body, mind, and soul, then guess where their concern is ? ... and the evidence is then seen everywhere to be feared and hated ... at the same time the largest share of those religious do not even have sufficient "proof" (enough faith?) to overcome the evidence all around them ...
Is it any wonder then that the world condition is fear and the hatreds generated from that ?
When violence is so prevalent, so threatening, so feared, and there is nothing else that seems to really satisfy the fearful, then they can only see more violence on their side to overcome the violence from the other side as the answer ... thus violence begets violence ad infinitum ... a "trap" of "circular reasoning" ... what folks need to do is explore solutions either OUTside of their box of reality ... OR ... explore the INner realm of their own Soul and God ... I highly recommend the latter having done so and found the answer. IMnsHO.
(&# 160)
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That was 5 new attempts, if none of them work I give up :-)
At least I can see what didn't work and now use the process of elimination better.
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I agree with John. Additionally I must say, we are very lucky and blessed to live in the U.S. We sometimes take it for granted how good we really have it compared to other countries around the world. Unfortunately, here we also have gangs (thugs) killing other gang members along with the occasional, in-the-wrong place at-the-wrong-time bystanders. These demons of evil; nothing more than lowlife mobsters, kill over an imagined so called ‘turf’ that is in reality public property, belonging to every citizen. They believe that it is theres simply by claiming it to be so. They do what they do out of hatred; evil intent.
There have been outlaws, renegades, misfits, and bullies throughout history. In the past we would go to war with another country with boundaries clearly defined. Today we find ourselves up against an invisible, brainwashed enemy of inequity, spewing out their wrath of poisonous venom to all that oppose their way of thinking. They come from nothingness and to nothingness they will return. In the meantime, the United Nations should do their job and leave politics out of it.
Jerry is correct in saying, “The evidence is then seen everywhere to be feared and hated ... at the same time the largest share of those religious do not even have sufficient "proof" (enough faith?) to overcome the evidence all around them ... Is it any wonder then that the world condition is fear and the hatreds generated from that?” It’s everywhere all we have to do is open our eyes, look, and try to do something about it. It begins with that first step from each of us.
It would be oh so much better for us to focus on the many things we all have in common than on any of those things that separate us. Imagine what kind of world we would have if we all worked together as one in an effort for positive change.
P: 1 & 2. Yes, other influences have showed them so much to be feared, instead of so much to be gained from a positive determination of the human spirit under God’s limitless possibilities for good. Ah, but they with so little faith, so easily go astray.
P: 3. So true and at the same time a conundrum to think that anyone would choose darkness instead of the Light, unless it is from the darkness they come.
P: 4. Except for complacency where turning a blind eye and not wanting to get involved can be dangerous if not deadly. Remember when we were called the “Sleeping Giant,” and were late getting involved in the first two world wars? Sometimes for good to survive we have to be willing to fight to the death. The freedoms we enjoy today are from the many sacrifices made to make it so. And again yes, “what folks need to do is explore solutions either outside of their box of reality ... OR ... explore the inner realm of their own Soul and God ... I highly recommend the latter having done so and found the answer. IMnsHO.”
God Bless and Good Light to one and all!
P.S. I’ll be sure to remember the kiss principle :-) FYI, then if you add a period you get a happy face. I’ve been smiling ever since.