From "Historic Event" to "Democrats Eat Their Own"

Thanks for sharing

*snicker* I'm loving it.

lol, hubby and I were saying the same thing this morning LOL

Hey thanks Beth ! ! ! !
Moggy, no kidding *chuckle*
Denise, great minds think alike, eh ?? *chuckle*
Jessica, if you're busy "just livin' life man," then this stuff should be meaningless *G*

thanks for the input, all of you.

Jack -

Don't gloat..........its hard to be a Conservative Democrat these days. We too would love to say "I told ya so" to the Liberal majority in the party, but we're only 20% or so, and we're hunted these days. Maybe a loss of incredible proportions in this Presidential election will bring back the power of the Reagan Democrats, but I'm not enthusiastic about it.

If only we'd see the wisdom of nominating a Conservative Democrat for President, maybe everyone on both sides of the aisle could feel empowered (well maybe not the Far Left, but everybody else!) enough to come together.

bret, I wrote three letters the other day, one to meeeecain, one to obammie, and one to billary.

I suggest to every one of them, "select a running mate from the opposition party."

I think that might do the same thing you believe your idea would have, namely, an electable ticket.

Bret, there is a conservative Democrat in the race. That would be McCain. :-)

good one rex *chuckle*

Hillary is a centrist. I'll stake 28 years of being in a centrist party, and voting for centrists on it.

John Anderson in 1980, and Hillary and McCain today. Nothing in between.

Rex -

You might be right. That would make him the perfect candidate.

Hillary is a centrist *chuckle* that's a good one too....

Well, Jack, events are changing lightning fast, as you note, so next month we might all be singing a different tune. The media and the public have short memories. Then again, the Democrats do have a way of sabatoging their success.

Do you think the party leadership will survive..... probably, and unfortunately.

Two States don't even count... It is an embarrassment; power and more power is what it is all about, what a mess.

Mary-OOOOOOOOOO *ROFL* nice to see ya....

Look, there's only one tune left to be played, maybe two--but that's it.

1) mathematically it is impossible for billary to get more delegates than obammie, even if she wins out on the rest of the state primaries to left to vote

2) billary could take it to the convent, even with obammie in the delegate lead, and try to win over the super delegates and steal the election from obammie

this particular tune cannot be changed at this time, without a major rift in the democrat party. obammie holds the lead, and he's not likely to lose it, unless of course billary can pay off enough super delegates to vote her way.

I hope she does, and I hope the demos put her up as the nominee....

I'd love to see the bloodletting in the demo party that would cause.


John, I don't know if the party itself will survive, to tell you the truth. And uh, billary says she WILL GET THE VOTES COUNTED NO MATTER WHAT in michigan and florida.

I doubt it *G*

"the first woman, or the first black president" will be a democrat!!

A weird turn around on Martin Luther King's statement "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin (or gender) but by the content of their character."

This campaign went wrong when color and gender overrode character.

Greg Schiller -

Wow, that's a great statement. Succinctly put too.

This campaign went wrong when color and gender overrode character.

Sadly, I don't believe the media would allow anything less/more--- color and gender are obviously the ONLY reason some are voting for billary or obammie.

Thanks to Greg and Bret both for stopping by.

Jjack, Who do you think would be a good vp for Obama. Me personally, I'd like to see a Obama / Webb ticket. Webb (xR) (D), with the military experience he has and the ties to the raygun admin, he would look very attractive to alot of (R), (I), & conservative and moderate (D).

As for Hillary, I think that soon, maybe after NC & I, the pressure will really pick up for the WWofW, to drop out. I think if she doesn't, the SD will start lining up behind Obama, an put him over.

You ''do'' still like Obama, right?

As for the dumbocrates, hey, you guys have made it through 7 years of the bu$h (neo con) agenda, and you're still going. If you can survive that, I'm sure the dumbs will survive. In fact you might be surprised, when there is a nominee, how quick they come together.

Jack, nice to see you too. Your icon is definitely unique, btw. I'm not sure if the superdelegates are the problem, as you mention in the last sentence, but that Obama started running out of steam after his streak of primaries. People began finally to ask, "What did he say?"

Right, So the party of endless war, (The same party that promoted and sucked us into the Iraq war with a pack of lies), the party that has gifted us with endless debt, the party of deregulation (read NO regulation) as we witness one bankrupt corporation after another tank taking thousands of jobs, pensions and overpaid corporate executives with them, the party that has given us KBR, Halliburton, Dick Cheney and no bid contracts, screwing ALL Americans out of BILLIONS of tax payer dollars, as these same war contractors use foreign shell companies to avoid paying their fair share of taxes, making it impossible for their wounded and traumatized employees to collect any benefits when they drag their bodies home...I'm nearly out of breath and I have just started on the VERY long list of atrocities inflicked on our country by the party you folks seem to admire. Either you have VERY short memories and even shorter attention spans - or you've all drunk the bush/cheney Kool Aid...

> "I can't think of a better political party for a meltdown to hit."

Gee. I can. The repuglicans. I see Cynthia got in all the gory details just above in her comment that I was gonna mention so I won't repeat, but Jack, honestly, aren't even you the least bit disgusted by the repugs by now? The no-bid contracts awarded to the now off-shore (thank you repugs again) Halliburton and their many subsidiaries should be a real slap in the face for any true conservative. Cheney's copious Halliburton stock & stock options are only being held in a blind trust while he's veep. All the profits go to him right after he's out of office. Why else would they do so many no-bid contracts not to mention a bad job where ever they touched down? It's the same with their deregulation that the greedy moneytheist repuglians did with the mortgage industry.

When will the true conservatives speak up about this farce? From my POV the repugs ate their own a long time ago. By their actions they spit on the word conservative. Why doesn't that bother the true conservatives in this country?

doctor doctor here's the news, a good VP for obammie would be Chuckie Hagel from Nebraska.

It would show he's serious about "unity" by having a republican VP, and it would burnish obammie's resume with a war vet, and foreign policy expert on his team.

No one is going to convince billary to drop out-- if you saw her on greta susteren show last night, she has ever intention of going to the convention no matter what.

I not only like the idea of an obammie presidency, I look forward to it, if he can close the sale.

This in no way should suggest to anyone I am abandoning my conservative agenda. I simply believe it is long past time-- we need a woman to get elected, and we need a black person to be elected. It can't be both, so either one will do for now.

I think the mere fact a woman or black man is elected would change our country in ways we couldn't even dream of, change in an indirect, "it's about time" mentality.

Mario-- dude, mathematically obammie's already won-- there isn't any way for clinton to come back, other than a convention scenario where the super delegates negate the delegates obammie has rightfully earned.

No matter what happens, the demos are in deep trouble, and it gets even worse if billary is given the nod.

Cynthia, sorry, I don't talk to irrational idiots like you.

I see Cynthia got in all the gory details

details ??? Hell, all I saw were bogus democrap talking points.

aren't even you the least bit disgusted by the repugs by now?

Of course, which is why we need a new bunch of republicans, so the so called republicans in congress, all of the rinos can get the hell out of the way for some REAL conservatives, rather than the money spending idiots that have been there for 7 years.

Why doesn't that bother the true conservatives in this country?

It does, and precisely why I never voted for bush, or his daddy, they are milk warm liberal activists, and certainly NOT conservatives.

But the list Cynthia put up, and your Halliburton shit-- get a grip man, you can't prove a word of any of that shit.

Hill's camp is talking about a "credentials battle" at the convention over Florida and Michigan. Let's see if they can roll Howard Dean.

I also heard something from them about the "pleged" delegates not having to vote for the candidate the voters elected them to support. In other words, Democrat primary votes don't really count at all, according to camp Hillary!

Christopher, the pledged delegates are very different from the super delegates.

All pledged delegates MUST for the candidate that won their pledge in the first place---- but--- that's only on the first ballot of the convention. After that, all delegates are free to select whoever they want, BUT --- it's never happened before that they voted for someone other than what their constituents voted for.

The whole "credentials battle" thingie is just another way of saying, "I have some clout and I'm going to use it with the super delegates if I have to, because I'm going to bury Obama."

I don't think it is as bad as it could be.

John McCain is frightening. He says the government should take no role in improving the economy; he will be the first president since Hoover with that stance. Heaven help us. The Dems won't.

The powers that be in the Democratic party decided to role out young, inexperienced Obama who might prove as bad as McCain.

Hillary would make a great president like her husband did, but the Dems have almost assured themselves of defeat. What can a person do? I will probably give my vote to Ralph Nader. The Dems hate him, but at least he stands for something.

Delores, what could possibly make it worse for the demos ??

he will be the first president since Hoover with that stance

Wrong, it was the guiding principle of the Reagan Revolution.

Hillary would make a great president like her husband did

She may not get the chance, keeping my fingers crossed for an obammie win.

> "and your Halliburton shit-- get a grip man, you can't prove a word of any of that shit."

Jack dear, it's all a matter of public record. Dick Cheney was CEO of Halliburton, his stock is held in a blind trust, and he gets it all once he's out of office. That ain't not BS, it be da truth... perhaps a truth you refuse to acknowledge, but truth nonetheless. If things were turned around and Cheney happened to be a dem you'd be crying for his head because of his abuse of power and his greed.

because I do not have to curse and insult someone in every post I make

every post ??? *ROFL* now who's the liar ??? *ROFL*

why did you come in here ???? to accuse me of being an asshole or to talk about the subject at hand ????

Spencer, by definition you're a liar, you've been deleted. That goes for you too Sandy and Bruce--- you didn't even mention the issue at hand, and your first posts were nothing but the politics of personal destruction.

You can't refute what I've said, so you take it upon yourself to condemn me, for the same name calling you engage in.

Anyone that doesn't mention the article, before calling me names, gets deleted.

I don't care if you call me names WHILE YOU DISCUSS THE ISSUE, but you losers couldn't even do THAT.

When someone comes in just to throw personal insults around and not even mention the issue--- deletion is the only logical course of action.

it's all a matter of public record.

Then you can SHOW US this "public record" --- why not do that ???

Jjack, Chuckie would be my second pick. At least he's not a card carrying member of the Joseph McCarthy society.

I have to agree with DD on the chency / haliburton issue. Of course they can't prove anything. The evidence is being controlled by the accused. You know, 3 to 5 million ''missing'' e mails and so forth.

''I will probably give my vote to Ralph Nader. The Dems hate him, but at least he stands for something.''

Mary Ann, there is no one here, who would hate to see mcbu$h elected, more than me. I know voting for Nader would be a vote for ''principles''. But as in 2000, a vote for Nader, is a vote for Mcbu$h. Please, don't be responsible for handing him the presidency. If you and others vote for Nader, who has as much chance as Ron Paul, we'll see mcbu$h standing in the oval office saying, ''am I supposed to be here. What do I do next. Who am I''.

I'm listening to the news while writing, and there talking about Obama / Bloomberg ticket, and a mcbu$h / romney ticket.

BTW, I still can't believe me and you agree on ''anything''.

The evidence is being controlled by the accused.

*chuckle* deep dark conspiracy theories.... how convenient, eh ???

I still can't believe me and you agree on ''anything''

hey, any misguided progressive can be correct atleast two times a day, just like a stopped clock *G*

What's really amazing about this race is how both parties and the media are still indulging themselves in the "beating a dead horse" form of campaigning and campaign coverage.
The Democrats (Obama and Hillary) simply point to the obvious fact that things are pretty messed up across the board and expect this to rally voters. The Republicans (McCain) point to the fact that things are pretty messed up across the board, but say that there's no need to vote them out of office, because it's not a Republican problem, it's a George Bush problem. This is all very old-school-style campaigning and in reality points to the fact that neither side has any concrete suggestions on how to fix anything.
The media, for their part, is only concerned with which candidate makes the most scandalous/embarrassing mistake in public. The media gives zero coverage to any actual platform any of the candidates may ( or may not ) have.
In short, neither the Democrats, the Republicans, or the media have done anything noble or worthy in this campaign, so far. The reason for this is simple. We, as a nation, have no interest in things "noble" all we want is entertaining politics that mimic the kind of movies and tv show that populate the landscape. We live in a world where the only difference between the good guys and the bad guys is who's left standing at the end of the show and when the show is over we simply flip over to the next one.

Congrats on making the front page jJack!

''*chuckle* deep dark conspiracy theories.... how convenient, eh ?''

So, are you saying conspiracy theories are ''never'' true.


''hey, any misguided progressive can be correct atleast two times a day, just like a stopped clock *G*''

Or any misguided ''conservative'' can be right 2 times a day, too.

Spare me the flames. Does anyone really believe that Democrats and the left believe what they say?

Does anyone remember the Clarence Thomas hearings? Remember how the Democrats and the left lectured the nation about "how we just didn't get it" regarding sexual harassment?

Remember how indignant we were all supposed to get?

Then came Bill Clinton's bimboo eruptions followed by a long, long, long list of women who accused him of sexual harassment and even rape.

Suddenly we were suppose to forget everything we were told to be indignant about just a few years earlier. In an instant "always believe the woman" became "always believe the man no matter how many women raise accusations".

There is a term for this, it is called "Pathological Partisanship".

And is engaged in by ''both'' sides, huh?

Greg Schiller -

From reading the comments on this thread and others on Gather, I'm now convinced that the Liberal philosophy is the philosophy of Conspiracy Theorists.

George, Moggy, Thanks for your input ! ! !

Doctor Doctor, no-- some conspriacy theories are real, made real by their discovery of facts to support the theory.

Good stuff Greg, thanks for stopping by ! ! !

Bret, very true-- it serves as their dogma. *chuckle*

Doctor Doctor, not sure what the "engaged" comment was about.

I think Obammie should pick his friend Deval Patrick as VP. Why not not have two egotitiscal Black men on the same tickets. That would make a clear statement about race being irrelevant. You want to see the future under Obama, look at Massachusetts where Patrick is governor, when he is not out campaigning for Obama or working on book delas in NYC. We voted for this articulate and sucesfsul Black man to be our governor. He promised change! He promised to fix what years of Republicans messed up! He promised a new vision and an ability to work with people in all aspects of government! He promised us a new era! No wonder he writes Obama's speeches! Well, guess what? His first major acts were to buy a new limo and redecorate his office on the taxpayer dollar. Then he appointed a bunch of friends to jobs that they didn't need and weren't qualified to handle. He followed up by proposing casino gambling to solve all the financial woes of the state. Then he decided maybe we also should add new toll booths to further clog up the rush hour traffic situation. A year plus into te job, he has accomplished nothing! He cannot get along with the legislature and they are all in the same party. He seems to be bored with the job now and is too busy helping Obama around the country or getting cash advances for book deals to actually be in the state much these days. That is what a platform of change got Massacsuetts and that is what youll get with Obama.

I agree Linda.
We get to choose from this time,Hillary,who embellishes truths,but would be a strong leader and would have Bill who was a good president,if not a great husband,and many of his experienced people around her.At least our economy was better in those years.
Obama,who brings nothing but great speeches,no experience and racism.
MCCain,who seems to be a nice man and works well with the opposite party,but he is too old and wants to stay in the war forever,costing us trillions more.
What a mess.

Thanks for your input LInda and Patti ! ! ! !

Hmmmmm, sounds like Bling politics in Massachusetts. You didn't see that kind of nonsense in the boring old "let's get down to business" atmosphere of the Romney governorship.

Jack, you make this so easy! thanks for the opportunity...

> "it's all a matter of public record. Then you can SHOW US this "public record" --- why not do that ???"

Cheney's Halliburton Ties Remain - an exerpt: A report by the Congressional Research Service undermines Vice President Dick Cheney's denial of a continuing relationship with Halliburton Co., the energy company he once led, Sen. Frank Lautenberg said Thursday.

The report says a public official's unexercised stock options and deferred salary fall within the definition of "retained ties" to his former company....
According to The Post, while Cheney was defense secretary the Pentagon chose Halliburton subsidiary Brown & Root to study the cost effectiveness of outsourcing some military operations to private contractors. Based on the results of the study, the Pentagon hired Brown & Root to implement an outsourcing plan. Cheney became Halliburton CEO in 1995.

Cheney's Halliburton stock options rose 3,281% last year, senator finds - an exerpt: "An analysis released by a Democratic senator found that Vice President Dick Cheney's Halliburton stock options have risen 3,281 percent in the last year, RAW STORY can reveal.

Sen. Frank Lautenberg (D-NJ) asserts that Cheney's options -- worth $241,498 a year ago -- are now valued at more than $8 million...

Cheney's Halliburton stock options rose 3,281% last year, senator finds - an exerpt:
"An analysis released by a Democratic senator found that Vice President Dick Cheney's Halliburton stock options have risen 3,281 percent in the last year, RAW STORY can reveal.

Sen. Frank Lautenberg (D-NJ) asserts that Cheney's options -- worth $241,498 a year ago -- are now valued at more than $8 million. The former CEO of the oil and gas services juggernaut, Cheney has pledged to give proceeds to charity.

The above graph released by Sen. Frank Lautenberg (D-NJ) charts the value of the Vice President's holdings in Halliburton in the past year.

"Halliburton has already raked in more than $20 billion from the Bush-Cheney Administration for work in Iraq, and they were awarded some of the first Katrina contracts," Lautenberg said in a statement. "It is unseemly for the Vice President to continue to benefit from this company at the same time his Administration funnels billions of dollars to it. The Vice President should sever his financial ties to Halliburton once and for all."

Cheney continues to hold 433,333 Halliburton stock options. The company has been criticized by auditors for its handling of a no-bid contact in Iraq. Auditors found the firm marked up meal prices for troops and inflated gas prices in a deal with a Kuwaiti supplier. The company built the American prison at Guantanamo Bay."

Cheney/Halliburton Chronology - this article is a timeline charting & spelling Cheney's ties to Halliburton and Halliburton's wealth machine, complete with footnotes.

Halliburton, Dick Cheney, and Wartime Spoils - an exerpt: "However, of all the administration members with potential conflicts of interest, none seems more troubling than Vice President Dick Cheney. Cheney is former CEO of Halliburton, an oil-services company that also provides construction and military support services - a triple-header of wartime spoils.

A few weeks ago, the U.S. Army Corp of Engineers awarded a no-bid contract to extinguish oil well fires in Iraq to Kellogg Brown and Root (KBR), a subsidiary of Halliburton. The contract was granted under a January Bush administration waiver that, according to the Washington Post, allowed "government agencies to handpick companies for Iraqi reconstruction projects."

The contract, which was not announced until more than two weeks after it was awarded, was open-ended, with no time limits and no dollar limits. It was also a "cost-plus" contract, meaning that the company is guaranteed to recover costs and then make a guaranteed profit on top of that. Its value is estimated at tens of millions of dollars.

This is not the first buck that Cheney's former company has made off military conflict and likely won't be the last. KBR currently has thousands of military support personnel on the ground in Kuwait and Turkey as part of a multi-year contract worth close to a billion dollars. The engineering subsidiary was also one of a select few firms invited to bid on an initial $900 million USAID contract for rebuilding post-war Iraq. Though it didn't get that job, Halliburton says it is still in the running for subcontracts and there will likely be plenty more opportunities. After all, the American Academy of Sciences estimates the rebuilding Iraq will cost between $30 and $105 billion dollars. At a recent investor conference call, Halliburton reported a 30% increase in year-over-year revenues, to $1.6 billion, for KBR.

Cheney, who served as CEO from 1995 to 2000, continues to receive as much as $1 million a year in deferred compensation as Halliburton executives enjoy a seat at the table during Administration discussions over how to handle post-war oil production in Iraq.

The Cheney-Halliburton story is the classic military-industrial revolving door tale. As Secretary of Defense under Bush I, Cheney paid Brown and Root services (now Kellogg Brown and Root) $3.9 million to report on how private companies could help the U.S. Army as Cheney cut hundreds of thousands of Army jobs. Then Brown and Root won a five-year contract to provide logistics for the U.S. Army Corp of Engineers all over the globe. In 1995, Cheney became CEO and Halliburton jumped from 73rd to 18th on the Pentagon's list of top contractors, benefiting from at least $3.8 billion in federal contracts and taxpayer-insured loans, according to the Center for Public Integrity....
Tax Havens: Under Cheney's tenure, the number of Halliburton subsidiaries in offshore tax havens increased from 9 to 44. Meanwhile, Halliburton went from paying $302 million in company taxes in 1998 to getting an $85 million tax refund in 1999.

All told, the IRS loses about $70 billion a year in offshore tax sheltering by corporations and wealthy individuals - almost enough to cover the $75 billion Bush has asked for to cover the first six months of war.

***

The Halliburton story is part of a larger dynamic that should not be forgotten in a debate over contractor responsibility. While the Halliburton contracts reek of blatant cronyism, almost all the major firms that provide this kind of work are tied to the administration.

Somebody has to do the job. However, the level of secrecy surrounding the contracts that have been given out so far is troubling, and symptomatic of a bigger problem - the very legitimacy of a reconstruction process controlled by the U.S. military and their corporate contractors. Although the United States has the obligation to pay for the costs of reconstructing Iraq, only the United Nations is the proper body to provide governance and help rebuild a new government, civil society and physical infrastructure if the current regime is overthrown, not the White House, the Pentagon and their corporate cronies. "

Thanks again Jack for the opportunity to inject a teensy bit of reality here. I only hope you read about this and not allow your political blinders to stop you from understanding what's really going on with these criminals in our White House. Like any real true conservative, you should be as outraged as me. Unless it's only your hatred for liberals that has you defending these criminals.

(sorry for the long comment, but you did ask for it. It's real easy researching things online Jack, you should try it sometime)

Doggies, now try to connect the dots and prove, and prove we went to war with Iraq just to "make Cheney and his cronies rich."

Why else would they do so many no-bid contracts not to mention a bad job where ever they touched down?

That was your accusation, Bush/Cheney went to war to get rich and then gave Halliburton carte blanche.

The fact is, there is fewer than 6 companies qualifed to do the jobs Halliburton does in war zones. Look, Halliburton BUILD THE IRAQI OIL FIELDS, and would have made NO SENSE whatsoever to have a different company rebuild those fields.

Put simply, all you can do is make the accusation, and hope that people will swallow your dot by dot connection, that isn't there.

I do plenty of research bubba, which is why I know you're full of shit.

Thanks for being a nice little puppet though.

Moggy ! ! ! ! ! Thanks ! ! ! ! !

Doctor Doctor, I still have no idea what you are talking about, sorry.

Someone made this comment above,

''There is a term for this, it is called "Pathological Partisanship".''

And I responded,

''And is engaged in by ''both'' sides, huh?''

DD, don't you know that circumstantial evidence doesn't stand up in court. Even if it is ''overwhelming''

''There is a term for this, it is called "Pathological Partisanship".''

Ah, *chuckle* the comment wasn't even for me *G* but yes both sides....

Just heard the news. They're dangling the Governorship of NY in front of hillary, to get her to drop out ????? With Pattersons ''problems'', there may be a special election soon. Imagine, hillary and rudy running against each other again.

That would certainly be a good way to get rid of the attention hog *G*

I'm not worried about parties - they can be easily changed - it's the candidates who count - Hillary really needs to learn that it's ok to lose and if she bows out now she may leave with a smidgeon of respect from all - the Wright thing didn't bother Obama at all - it's old old news - I'm wondering what the next smear will be though...you never know - perhaps it may be somethinng regarding the Republicans..ok well take care Jack...Salud.

Mariana, you broke your rule, no politics remember ??? *chuckle* Thanks for stopping ! ! !

Oh I know Jack - I should never had said that so goes to show you should never say never - anyway, I'm totally interested in politics now because I feel that maybe we can have a new and changed America - now, don't get me wrong Jack - ok - because you know I like you and all but we're on opposite sides of the coin - now, I believe in a very strong work ethic - I don't not believe that the Government is our mother and should support us - I believe that you should work your ass off to own a house and not get into one you can afford - in other words, live frugally - ok we're on the same page with a few things. However, I want a president who I don't have to cringe when I hear him speak - I love intelligence - I want this America to be great again...and am grateful above all that we have so much freedom...Ok Jack, I'm being nice - you see - anyway, have a nice evening...Salud.

**I believe that you should work your ass off to own a house and not get into one you can't afford - anyway, Jack, tell your brothers I send my greetings and I hope to see all of you at my book signing in October...Salud.

Book signing ???

jJack, what are you doing to support Obama in your community. I don't particularly like the dumbocrats controlling our local party, so I really don't want to get mixed up with them. (clinton supporters). I need some creative ideas to advance Obama's candidacy here in NC.

BTW local polls (NC) have Obama ahead by about 54% to 39% and growing. NC will nullify clintons win in PA and then were right back where we started.

Doctor Doctor, I am still very much a conservative, and will return to the fold as soon as they have a candidate that is a conservative.

You might say I'm a "friend of the court" filing my brief for the hopeful candidate Barack Obama. I am not doing anything to actually promote his cause, as I do not believe in it.

I believe in Obama HIMSELF, however, and believe he will grow into the job nicely if elected, but I'm not going to help him *chuckle*

I simply believe his destiny brought him to this point in time, and I further believe that if elected, Obama's position would change the course of this nation forever, and demonstrate the fallacy of the idea often heard from black people, to wit: Whitey is keepin' us down.

It would be VERY difficult, after a black man has been elected president, to continue the practice of using the race card when a black person is confronted by a failure.

I don't mean to say blacks are more prone to failure, or anything like that. But I think you know as well as I do, the race card has been pulled too many times, when it was never about race.

It has always been a very convenient way for blacks to BLAME someone, anyone, or anything on racism, in the face of personal failure. I believe the ability to use that card, has had highly detrimental effects on the black culture in America.

An Obama presidency would allow black Americans a role model they are sorely lacking, and would give a signal to them that there is no reason they could not do the same.

THAT is why I support Obama-- that and the fact the republicans are putting up a closet liberal as their candidates. Since I don't have a real conservative to vote for, Obama is the right man for the job at this particular moment in history.

I believe we are at a crossroads, just as Obama said in his speech on religion.

We can continue to do as we have always done, fight and bicker over racism, or move on, grow as a nation, and put the woulds of ugly racism behinds us, finally, once and for all.

I am not so naive to believe that if Obama is elected, racism will go away over night. In fact, there may even be some increase in violence for a time. But after he's been in office for some time, say a couple years or so --- if he's doing a good job and nothing catastrophic occurs, we will have turned the corner, and the possibilities from there are endless for ALL MEN, finally, and the promise of freedom and equality will be advanced in ways we simply cannot image.

''It would be VERY difficult, after a black man has been elected president, to continue the practice of using the race card when a black person is confronted by a failure.

An Obama presidency would allow black Americans a role model they are sorely lacking, and would give a signal to them that there is no reason they could not do the same.''

Good post. I tend to agree with your assessment. So the only issue that you support Obama on, is race. And do you really have that much faith in the American people to ''grow''. I think he will surprise alot of people.

So you think jJack is a loser? The words that you highlighted and responded to were jJack's, not mine. I guess you're to stupid to see or understand the quotation marks, huh, ''dr.'' rich kaye. That's sad, not only to stupid to remember that you're''not'' a ''dr.'', but illusions, that ''I'' wrote something, and insulting one of your own conservatives. And just like a ''loser'' to post a ''negative'' comment to a positive statement. A republibot loser.

BTW, Rich, If you found out that mcbu$h, was really a traitor in Viet Nam, and signed a confession denouncing the US for war crimes, Would you still vote for him?

Rich, Doctor Doctor, do you two want to get a private room ??? *G*

No thanks, jJack. My type is in the picture beside me. I'm just speaking for myself, though. ''dr.'' rick kaye may have other desires.

Q: How do you tell if a politician is lying?

A: The lips are moving.

Don't worry, it's quite a while till the election. The only way McCain's not going to lie egregiously is if he's prevented from speaking or writing.

The bigger question is "How can anybody be surprised when a politician of any party lies? It's what they do."

There's just so many idiots in both parties that think they have the right to vote just because we say we're a democracy. We should do something about that before we vote ourselves right out of existence.

bruce k., What do you suggest we do. Only white, male, land owners. If so I'm good.

''Must EVERYTHING be explained to you like a child?''

I think that's the problem. A child is doing the explaining.

As for the mcbu$h issue. Ok, so you overlooked the kerry and mcbu$h military issues. Why on earth would you overlook someone ''not'' doing their service, they were obligated to do. That is called desertion. And during war time punishable by death. Oh yea, I forgot Viet Nam was a ''police action'' .

But at least I didn't forget that I'm ''not'' a doctor, hahahahahahahahaha.

BTW, dui is a crime, so it desertion, and insider trading, and violating an oath of office, and possession of drugs, and on and on and on.

I'm not saying that white males are smarter or better than anyone else ... maybe that is the question? We had some smart white males at one time who developed the Constitution. Was it because they were white males, or was it something else. If so, let's figure out what it is before we screw it up beyond any recognition.

I do think there is "something" to letting, landowners, the rich, those with money, education or some tangible measurable metric of investment in the society have more say. Not saying it is fair, just that there can be an imaginable circumstance through bad breeding or uncontrolled immigration where the country has more people who do not understand what is necessary to preserve to it and could endanger its survival by allowing virtual barbarians to vote us into barbarism.