Define Irony

Yes, it's a real difficult situation especially for regular people.

I had head that Chrysler and GM asked the government for help, please tell me that they aren't going ot do it?

this is bad

Because now these huge corporations are going to go to the government for the bailout and its goign to get stuck on the taxpayers.

Great.

NOT

When will someone come bail me out?!!

I dont want to be bailed out...just a bit of help would be fine.

Mari, it is all but signed and sealed now. The fact that they are trying to say it is a good thing to do, even if the automakers ultimately go under, is what makes it so much more of a kick in the teeth to taxpayers.

Georgiana, I don't think we would ever be helped up, never mind bailed out. Isn't it funny that so many have said, "the people got themselves into this, so they must deal with it", but those very same ones saying that, aren't saying it about Wall Street and Corporations? I guess because they are the elite, there is a double standard, and it's OUR responsibility to keep them in their comfortable lifestyle, while we are crushed beneath their greed.

Bryan, I feel the same way. I don't need or want a "bailout", I just want to be allowed to keep what we WORKED for!! Take care of my family, and be able to go to a doctor when we need to.

Some of us regular taxpaying people depend on GM for our pensions. We've also worked to earn our money and paid a lot of taxes. We've fought in wars and raised families, but we don't deserve help? That is ironic, indeed.

Our 401k retirement account has been reduced to 10% of what it was in 2006. Our retirement account and pension are heavily dependent on Wall Street and so is yours, whether you know it or not.

Do you think retirees and disabled people should not be helped to recoup our losses?
I guess we are not important people when it comes to parting with your hard earned money. I wish I had not read this post or the comments.

Jan, you don't seem to understand, YOU are not the one who will benefit from this. The stipulations on the table for the merger and funding of GM-Chrysler INCLUDE a complete removal of healthcare benefits to retirees, AND reduced pay for the EMPLOYEES!! NO talk of pay cuts for executives!!! Just like with Wall Street, there also is NO oversight what-so-ever as to the use of this money for executive pay and bonuses!!!

I resent your implication that I wrote this with personal greed or gain in mind!!! It is the VERY WORKERS that I was referring to when I wrote this. Are YOU financially well off enough to go in and pay cash for one of those vehicles? That is about the only way it would happen in the current economy!!! The bailout was supposed to loosen the credit market, but it has not, and "bailing out" these automakers is going to be no different!!!

Not only is your retirement DECREASED, but YOUR tax dollars are going to shore up the ELITE of these companies. I would think if you were retired from GM, you would expect, NO DEMAND, that the employees be taken care of FIRST!!! THAT IS IRONY!!!

Health care benefits have already been taken from the GM salaried retirees, effective 1/01/2009. That is with or without the merger. Hourly retirees' health benefits will be administered by the UAW, beginning in 2010. Most plants have already reduced hourly pay rates by half.

The 24,000 - 30,000 jobs that would be eliminated in the merger are high level jobs that will be redundant due to duplication, after the merger. More foreclosures and bankrupcies.

Michigan's economy is much worse than most of the country. The merger will keep GM in operation. The stock for which we paid $40 - $60 is now worth about $6. No, we can't afford a new vehicle. Our cars are 10 and 12 years old. If GM goes broke, we and thousands of others, will be begging for shelter.

I have no wish to insult anyone, Anne. This just struck me as not only ironic, but very sad.
My parents are in their 80's and my daughter is in college. They, too, depend on GM, through us, to help them. The merger may help keep a roof over our heads. By denying the merger, it's not only the executives who will suffer.

Jan,
I was not in any way saying we should deny the merger or even funding for them. I think America needs to keep our Automakers AND keep them IN THIS COUNTRY. I do NOT think that the people who have done so much to missmanage things to date, should be getting handed TAXPAYER subsidized BLANK CHECKS!!

The 24 - 30 thousand upper level positions still do not encompass the top most elite. Those who sit in the board room, and decide the fate of ALL employees, without regard to their families and futures. The ones who would be hurt the least are the ones who will benefit the most.

Idaho's economy is in line with Michigans, since the major money making industry here is the Nuclear sight that is and has been in shut down mode. We have a major problem with illegals here that have driven wages down and cost many citizens their jobs. I am no better off than you are, and when I see mismanagement on such a grand scale, I don't hesitate to bring it to the front.

The best thing that could happen in this merger (though it never will) is to allow the employees to become controlling share owners and allow THEM to take control of the funds.

I find it funny that Chrysler asked for help again! In the 1980's under the leadership of Lee Iacco they got help from the Government and not only turned their company around, but paid ALL of the money back in 5 years. Lee took the largest pay cut, then told every manager to do the same. After all of the management took their cuts then he went to the Union and asked for cuts to SAVE the company. A few years later they fired him, boosted their salaries and NOW they want help AGAIN? I say that the old pay cuts need to be in place FIRST this time.

Marie GM will get a bailout and so will every other Bush/Cheney/Paulson/Bernanke crony.

They are not using the bailout money for its intended purpose but are using it for corporate bonuses and again their will not be any punishment for those corporate welfare clients of Bush and his gang.

Maybe there needs to be some kind of maximum wage, or like I think we need higher tax rates at these huge salary levels. There is no benefit to the country of having people with hundreds of million of dollar salaries or net worths.

My own definition of irony:

It's ironic that people drown. After all, we start out as sperm, swimming a race to mom's egg, while beating out about 1 million competing sperm. --Joe

Kevin, Jack and Bruce,
Those points are exactly what I was referring to. I don't want to see the money taken from the workers who actually worked for and EARNED it, but as has been proven by what just occurred with the Wall Street bailout, the FIRST thing that the money will be used for is to give bonuses and pay raises to the very people who DON'T earn or DESERVE the insane pay packages they are given.
If someone on the assembley line isn't doing his job, they are not going to give him a raise and bonuses, they are going to get rid of them. Why don't we ever see that with the executives? They create the mess, and are rewarded for it. Now once again, the tax payers are being expected to bail them out.

I think it is wrong for all these companies and wealthy upper class to get a bail out at the expense of the rest of us. There needs to be some sort of stipulation if we bail you out then you need to pass on the good deed and forgive and or bail out those who are suffering, losing homes, transportation, have no health care and cannot afford it. These companies don't want to forgive or let the people who OWE them money they want the government and taxpayers to bail them out then turn around and demand full payment on bad loans and yes some don't pay loans or credit card debt they just rack it up and could. But we have many who lose homes, jobs, health and honor and pride and it hurts them in all ways to NOT be able to pay what they would if they could. Then these greedy people find ways to garnish low minimum wages that barely put food on a family table or roof over their head. In fact many are living in cars or with relatives now and working. They take garnish from Social Security which was NOT supposed to be able to be touched and some how they found a way around it. Elderly and disabled already not having enough to make ends meet are having 15% of their social security checks garnished which wipes out medical or other needs they are doing without even more. It is wrong for the mighty to get bailed out unless congress and the government bails the rest of us out otherwise they violate the constitution because that is NOT EQUAL RIGHTS or JUSTICE for ALL.

Anne, I go a lot further in my thinking along these lines. When you look at where money and power have concentrated in American since we have been a country to this point of dysfunction, money to a large degree is not in the hands of the hardworking, meritorious, inventive, creative. Of course some is, but the country as a whole has no idea where money and power is concentrated and what it is doing.

Enough is enough. I am a believer in Democracy, but we can not have a democracy by pretending that the rich can lend money to the country and the rest of us pay them interest back on that money until the system crashes.

We cannot survive where activist elitists pool their money and influence and bombard the rest of us with propganda and lies to create a fantasy illusion of what America is while we only pretend to care about human rights and progress.

Jen, those are exactly the points I wanted this to bring. I wonder what every one of those Pompous ELITE jacka**es would say if WE went to them and DEMANDED a bailout!! Many people are in financial crisis because of circumstances beyond their control, such as layoffs, their jobs being OUTSOURCED (caused by those VERY elitists) or medical expenses that are unjustifiably outrageous. Those cold heartless B*****ds won't even work with people, yet they feel they have the right to DEMAND a bailout with NO oversight what-so-ever.

Bruce, that is exactly why I keep saying in my posts that people MUST stop being so complacent, and TAKE BACK what is OUR country. DEMAND that Washington make the changes required to once again provide a smaller government Of The People, BY the People, FOR the people. They have catered to the wealthy elite long enough, and WE have the power to do it, if people would just take action. Voting is just the first way we can make this begin to happen. Removing the ability of only the wealthy to run has GOT to be the next step. Forcing a financial limit of EQUAL amounts for ALL parties should become a priority, and REDUCING the media control must be the next.

Oh- this is so maddening, try to teach my kids to budget and save and what do these big companies do when they hit hard times? they ask for a handout instead of trimming the budget and making tough choices we all have to make

Kind of like the one that says we'll be paying more taxes so politicians can buy votes from those who will get the handouts (called tax breaks). Yep

Roberta, I feel the same way. How do you tell people to be financially responsible, when the very people who are supposed to be running our finances are so irresponsible.

Charles, I find it very unlikely that there will be any tax cuts at all. Obama keeps saying he's going to give the tax breaks to those who make less than $250,000 and cut spending, but has yet to say what spending he's going to cut. You can bet it won't be the pork or any spending that benefits the elite.
McCain is only going to continue to give breaks to the elite, and doesn't bother talking about spending cuts, since he knows that would anger the people. How can he justify taking from the poor to give more to the wealthy?

Yes, and Circuit City is now closing all its stores in Georgia, so I don't see that the bailout has helped much yet.

Leaving a 10 as my comment!

thanks for sharing

Hello Anne G.,

I just wanted to say I am finally going through what is now under 6,500 pieces of gather new mail that is in my inbox on here. So with that in mind I have finally come to a piece of mail that was addressed to me in regards this article submission you have created to share with the gather community. Thank you for taking the time and sharing your piece with us here at gather. :o)

Define Irony?

A bunch of idiots dancing on a plane, to a song made famous by a band that died in a plane crash.

Yup. That's how they did it. But CEO Christmas bonus checks will be on time this year.

Ann, not only will their checks be on time this year, but they are putting the screws to even more people, so those that won't even get bonuses, may not be able to get a Christmas either.

Chelle, that made me laugh because after I wrote the article, I remembered that line from Con Air. Hey, can I be in double secret probation too? Maybe that will give us the huge bonuses that the crooked elite are stealing from us.

The whole thing kind of makes you sick doesn't it? Don't depend on the politicians to help you out either because they ALL sold their souls to lobbyists and special interest groups. There is no way the little guy can ever get ahead playing by their rules. We need to come up with some other solution. How about this one - Love thy neighbor as thyself. Or this one - Though shalt have no gods before me. There are lots more and I think we all need to get into that mind set. Just my thoughts ..................

What a great friend you are. Thank you so much for all your kind comments and help with Gather points.

Checking out your posts to try to help with points. God bless you.

If they gave all of us taxpayers a piece of the bailout pie we would be able to infuse it into the economy... no they decide to give the rich bastards more dough... I am so sick of this... I am on a roll tonight..

its all sad

Posting for points to save Anne's stuff!!

Running thru the rest of your content to help out!

I don't want a bailout just a little help to keep my home & survive until thngs even out!!!

Helping you, while helping me!!
I don't know what else to do for either of us, lol