Since When is Obesity a Handicap?

I do not think overweight people should get handicapped parking spaces unless they have a documented handicap. Walking a little extra difference would do them good. I am a nurse and I have a few extra pounds myself. There is overweight and there is ridiculous. I have had many patients who are over 500 lbs and they did not have a glandular problem or any other problem except overeating. Many have diabetes brought on by the weight. What I find really interesting is alot of these people think I can just pick them up and move them with little or no help from them. I do not mind doing anything for someone who cannot do it themself, but don't ask me to do something you are capable of doing yourself.

Melinda ... things may have changed, but last I heard, some airlines do not charge for the extra seat ... but I'll acknowledge I could be wrong on that one.

And you're right, I don't know how anybody put the weight on, which is why I say I'm compassionate for anyone with a handicapp -- including being overweight -- through no fault of their own. But the truth of the matter is that most of these people have eaten, smoked and drank themselves into this condition while doing little or nothing in the way of exercise to mitigate the damage.

As far as my co-worker's decision .. you can eat whatever you want, just get it yourself.

If you want to justify insurance and tax dollars paying tens, possibly hundreds of thousands of dollars for surgery for a self-inflicted decision, that's one thing (I disagree, but you're entitled to your opinion), but do we have to add thousands more for cosmetic surgery as well? And if you think that's OK, then why isn't it available to people who put in the disciplined time and effort to lose weight by diet and exercise?

By the way, I don't recall wishing for anything in my article.

Paula ... my wife is an ICU nurse and has to deal with the same types of patients and has the back pains to prove it. Thanks for your comments.

For the record I am neither obese nor do I openly discriminate against those who are overweight.

You have no right to judge these people who you see in disabled parking spots and the like. Do you really know what these people's ailments are? Have you spoken to them? Do you know for a fact that these people are just fat because they overeat? Since when have you been appointed the fat police? Did you not know that many, many people are overweight because of many different illnesses and that because of some of the medicine that some have to take for their illnesses the medicine itself causes dire circumstances in their bodies; bloating some, causing some to gain weight, causing many different problems to their bodies.

People who get disabled parking tags must have a letter from their doctor to take to Dept. of Motor Vehicles in order to be given a disabled tag. Most must even have a judge write out the form for this to prove disability. Last I checked, anyone with legitimate disabled parking tags were not simply given them at the Walmart.

In addition to the above, regarding the Bariatric surgery. Medicare will only pay for it when a person is 100 pounds or more overweight and the weight has become detrimental to their health. They must take a two to four hour class where the doctor will evaluate the suitability for this type of surgery. At NO time does medicare pay for the elimination of fat deposits or liposuction. That is considered plastic surgery and selective and the government will not pay for this whatsoever.

This issue is very touchy with me as I have family who is overweight and some who are considered obese. My issue is not with you on this post. It is with your blatant disregard for any other issues that may be reasons for some people's weight. Not everyone who is in a scooter at the grocery store is fat because they choose to be. Ever consider that possibly that day their back was hurting so bad from fibromyalgia or lupus or thyroid problems or any other number of health issues and had the need to be in one of those carts?

As for your friend who went to the grocery store and told that lady who asked for help for whatever it was at the grocery store that he would help her by not handing her the box of cookies on the top shelf; your friend was rude and unkind and had no right to disrespect anyone, let alone a disabled lady. It was not his right to do such a thing and it was just wrong.

In regards to the overweight or obese having to pay for an extra ticket if requiring the extra space ~ they MUST pay for the extra seat.

On buses or trains, last time I checked they hadn't started charging for the extra space

actually, you can buy handicapped parking tags on Ebay.

The handicapped parking tags are really not that hard to get. I have one for my dad, who honestly needs it. What frustrates me is around Holiday time, everyone wants me to drive to the mall to park in the handicapped spot! It's great to see their faces when I refuse to park in one. I will only use it if I have my dad with me, and I used it a few times when I had my mom, right after she had quadruple bypass. When she started to be herself again, I would drop her at the door, and then go park in a regular spot. Nothing irks me quite like an able bodied person taking advantage of a handicapped tag.

I have to agree with the original poster on this subject. MOST of my family is overweight. Some by choice (the cookies and such) some not by choice ( babies and such). My sister is one example of the latter. She was 150 lbs at 5'5'' which is not fat but not skinny either. After she had her daughter she never could get under 200 lbs. She tried dieting and all other options open to her. I do however have a problem with the fact that while she gripes about her weight she still eats junkfood (since the diets didnt work). Most of my family are WAY over weight to the point they cant fit through doors. I myself am 5ft 7 in and about 140 lbs after 3 children. My point here is the same as the original poster though if you could use the walk DO IT dont use those scooters at the stores. While i was pregnant with my youngest I hurt constantly. My feet swelled to where i couldnt wear my regular tennis shoes. In the middle of a PA winter i was out in sandals because my feet were swollen but i still did not use those scooters. I think they just aide in the obesity rate and should be banned. As for the handicap parking......take a walk dont park at the closest spot to the door. Again when i was pregnant and swollen beyond all hell i still took the walk. I had my fiancee park at the very last open space just so i could walk and not stay fat after baby. (i was over 200 lbs when i had him) Dont get me wrong on calling people fat but damn take a walk. I am tired of hearing people complain about how McDonald's or Oreo made them fat when they continue to eat the garbage. Get up and exercise a little. Enough of my rambling on this but geeze quit bitching people.

As for the person saying that medicaid will not pay for liposuction I have to disagree. My aunt had liposuction and a tummy tuck at the expense of medicaid. She was overweight but still I cant even get my insurance to pay for skin graph releases from a burn that happened 13 years ago. That is kind of detrimental to my health as if it doesnt get done my hand and arm will not grow correctly. Yes I am still growing at 25 years old. I have had my stomach graphs rip because insurance will not pay to have them released yet they will pay for people to have lipo and a tummy tuck. Just my two cents on that one.

Medicare and Medicaid will NOT pay for liposuction or tummy tucks. When you can tell me what state does or what doctor accepts it let me know so that I can go and get my tummy tuck and my liposuction would ya??

I agree with Esther's first comment, many people have thyroid disorders & etc.

Esther, you and I usually agree, but not on this one. Medicare does pay for the tummy tuck if you've had the surgery to inhibit your appetite.

OK ... for all of you who choose to twist my words.

1. I don't know who is fat for what reason and I don't pretend to. I do know that most -- not all but most -- people in this condition are in it because of their own choices, whether any of you want to admit to it or not.

2. The handicap tags are given out without regard as to why someone is overweight.

3. How do you justify providing cosmetic surgery on top of gastric bypass surgery for someone who is 100+ pounds overweight but not providing the cosmetic surgery for women who've given birth and people who lost as much weight by diet and exercise?

Dan K. says "2. The handicap tags are given out without regard as to why someone is overweight."

i've had 3 spinal surgeries and have trouble right now with walking, and i can't get a handicapped tag, so i can tell you they aren't given out without regard, overweight or not.

and having an "invisible" disability i'm sure if you saw me using a handicapped spot, you'd probably spout off that i have no right to use it either.

i'm also not sure where your getting your information on medicare surgery from. the majority of health insurance will NOT pay for the cosmetic surgery after, and a lot won't pay for the bypass surgery either. there is a whole show about that on Discovery Health and they are constantly having to tell people that their insurance won't cover that part.

my aunt has polio since she was a teenager. due to her inability to exercise, and not from overeating, she has become obese. she needs the bypass surgery to get the surgery needed on her shoulder so that she can transfer from the bed to the wheelchair without assistance. i'm sure if you saw her out, you'd probably just think she was that way from overeating and would want to deny her treatment that she needs to live. at least that's what this article and your comments say to me.

Many people are obese because of conditions but as a nurse who takes care of many obese people I know for a fact that some of their conditions came on because they are obese.

I get most of my information from my wife, who is a medical professional.

You are misinformed in a number of areas.

First - In most states and my state, you have to be certified disabled by a doctor.

Second - To get Medicare for your disability you have to go through rigorous reviews and it sometimes takes years. I have multiple disabilities and am now overweight from some of the meds I take to stay alive.

Third - Medicare will only cover the skin removal when it is necessary for mobility or there are other medical reasons to have it done. It does not pay for those things for everyone and their standards are stringent.

Fourth - Not all disabilities are visible. Who are you and your friend to judge other people.

Fifth - Just because you have heard people say things doesn't mean they are true. Before you published a piece like this you should have checked your facts.

Shame on you and shame on your friend.

Medicare and Medicaid benefits differ from state to state and county to county, so that benefit could depend on where you live. Same goes with medical insurance. More comprehensive plans will cover the cosmetic surgery -- but only in the case of the gastric bypass.

Let's quit the semantic b.s. Most doctors will certify their patients for the handicap permits.

I don't know what I need to say to make you understand that I acknowledge not all overweight people are so because of their own doing. But, whether you want to believe it or not, they are.

Sharon, I don't base anything on things I've "heard people say". I've spoken with doctors and nurses, Medicare experts and insurance representatives.

OK. I'm sorry. It's everybody's God-given right to eat themselves into oblivion, because they can hide behind protection of the people who are overweight by no fault of their own.

The problem is that the system doesn't care why or how somebody got to that point, even though a doctor would be able to identify or rule out many of the ailments listed here. So a person who eats him/her self into a state of morbid obesity is entitled to the same benefits as someone who is overweight by no fault of their own.

So that's right.

Ladies, never mind that you gave birth to 9 or 10 pound babies, and have worked your butt of to get back to a healthy weight. People, never mind that you lost 75 pounds with a rigorous diet and exercise program. You didn't take the quick fix of gastric bypass surgery, so all the extra skin just has to stay there -- unless you want to put out thousands of your own dollars to cover it.

Wow you're a jerk - you're lying.

Medicare and Medicaid are federal programs. Medicaid is handled through the states but it's a federal program.

The guidelines are the same they are set at the federal level.

You're dishonest.

You're breaking my heart.

Dan - you know, you're making this sound as if all of these morbidly obese people are happy with it or that they didn't realize they were over-weiight until they hit that point where Jerry Springers producers are calling them everyday. I'm not over-weight and I workout every day but a lot of the members of my family have medical issues that keep them over-weight. The one thing that I have heard from every single one of them is how miserable they are and I KNOW they do their best to lose the weight. They have joint trouble, back troubles, heel spurs...that sort of thing that just hamper their attempts.

But the fact is, even if this sort of thing 'annoys' you, why would you write this knowing full well that you were going to offend a bunch of people? I don't get it.

But I can relate in a way - I too am annoyed but for me it comes from smug, smarmy little know-it-alls who think that if something troubles them then God-forbid, it must be wrong. Add to that, most weight problems (You actually did write that up there somewhere and I am not going to go look for it) are self-inflicted. Some maybe but most not.

Bad call on this one Dan. I would have thought you would have thought a little more before posting something like this.

Dan:
1. You seem to believe that folks who are obese should be punished because they are obese. There is plenty of blame to go around from heredity, medical issues, lifestyle choices, cultural issues etc. So, when someone decided enough is enough and they would like to have surgery to help lose weight because at this point no matter what they do the weight is not coming off you believe the rest of the community should not have to foot the bill. They have met the insurance criteria of dieting and exercising for 6 months in a monitored program and have not lost significant weight and their health is threatened by their weight, we should not support them in an effort to lose weight?
2. You do not take into consideration the savings by helping them in this manner such as reduced overall medical costs because their health has improved and perhaps will continue to improve. these folks who have lost weight are now perhaps joining the workforce and paying taxes rather than just needed support from the government. Because these folks have lost weight, their incidence of injury on the job is decreased as well as the incidence of injury for someone caring for them.
3. Self esteem improves with weight loss which decreases the need for mental health services.
4. Cosmetic surgery to deal with the excess skin tends to be a need for some folks but not for all folks and I do not know at what rate insurance will reimburse this. Most cosmetic surgery is not fully compensated by insurance.
5. According to this theory of yours we should then not pay to assist folks with heart disease, smokers, substance abusers, with health care needs brought about by heredity, culture and lifestyle choices.

Reread what you wrote Dan. there is alot of flame in the article but little information to create a balanced debate.

Nicely said Grems.

thank you NK

hell by some definitions, about half of the population is "handicapped", most you'd never know it either.

This is a bunch of crap. My mother tried every diet ever invented, but the one that worked was simple. My father, finally exhausted by having to eat her "diet food" (which she insisted was necessary to be "sympathetic" to her "problem"), dropped his fork and said, "Goddamnit -- here's how to lose weight: prepare a healthy meal with healthy portions, and when you're done, bend your elbows, put your hands on the table, and push!" That, combined with exercise, is all fat people need.

I have no sympathy for fat people, just as I have no sympathy for smokers and drunks who die of cancer, or druggies who OD. Can you imagine having these people around 200 years ago? Or even 100? Unless they were wealthy, they'd be left to die. Natural selection.

glad that worked for your mother John. Perhaps you need to think about what would happen if that was you who was obese, had health issues and diet and exercise did not work. Natural selection. go for it.

Ah, the natural selection argument - one of my favorites. Sure, only the strong survive. Or Rich. Or well connected. Or ones who live anywhere but a third world nation. Or have access to healthcare.

Yeah - thin out the herd. Why not?

So tell me, what's it like not to have any problems at all? Must be really freaky to be the pinnacle of perfection - I mean the pressure has to be enormous - you can't screw up. At all. Wow.

Good luck man. You're gonna need it.

I'm so relieved to see you say you are not a fan of PC. Whew.

I think you are a total ass (apologies, kiss, hug, big smile) and hope you never receive any special consideration for your mental handicap because I would have to resent it.

Natural selection ! wow am now getting acquainted

well to this term after your well debated write !!

Thank you Dan for all the info and propell a good

insighted platform to think-decide right !!!

You are an effin' idiot. Bet your mom thinks you kiss good.

One word for the article--sanctimony

You're right, there are some people who are too lazy to take care of themselves properly and they shouldn't be "rewarded" in certain ways.

But that isn't always the case and you have no right to judge.

I am overweight. I have been overweight for more than 10 years now. And yes, I had surgery recently to lose weight and I'm thankful that my insurance paid every damn dime of it.

When I was 16 I had my first surgery. I had four more by the time I was 20. I had a child at 20, and at 24 I had to have a total hysterectomy. Within three years, three more surgeries. My metabolism literally shut down on my during several years of recuperation, depression, pain and turmoil. I have, since then, fought every day to control my weight and the diabetes that came during my pregnancy, which I never got rid of.

You think to judge me because I've had weight loss surgery? Why don't you go read my article about how I took the easy way out.

You think to judge me or others like me because you think we are too lazy to exercise? Why don't you try to keep up with me in the gym tomorrow - or better yet, why don't you come to the firehouse and don the 50+ pounds of equipment and PPE I put on during a fire and keep up with me. You think we don't know we need to exercise, eat less, blahblahblah.

You try living on 1000 calories a day for six months and exercise your brains out only to find you've gained another pound.

You're studying medicine, correct? To be a doctor? God forbid the poor patients that have to deal with you and hateful, spiteful, narrowminded assholes like you.

Oh yeah, and btw, those of us who are diabetic and overweight? Here's a catch-22 for you: the meds they put you on - they DETER weight loss.

The handicap tags are given out without regard as to why someone is overweight."

They aren't given out without regard as to why someone has ANY handicap.

My mother, who is neither overweight, nor lazy, but has a serious back issue, including having had surgery AND also has myasthenia gravis (sp?) went through hell and high water to get a handicap placard.

The same with my mother-in-law, who is aging and has severe arthritis.

My late father-in-law had to have three different letters from doctors and some other sort of affidavit in order to get one in the last stages of lung cancer - and he never smoked a day in his life.

You should get your facts straight before you spout such BS.

One more thing before I go for good.

For those that are overweight and choose to have weight loss surgery and it is successful - and later have the cosmetic surgery for the skin, the total cost is, I know, les than $100,000 total, depending on how much cosmetic surgery they need.

The lifetime cost of medication and maintenance for various issues including diabetes, arthritis, heart conditions, etc., is WELL over that amount.

Funny thing: John talks of natural selection, but he seems completely unaware that it's exactly natural selection that made us instinctive overeaters. We evolved when food was scarce and we had to eat all of it and store it as fat when is was available. Our appetite is calibrated for those times, and it will make most of us fat as we grow older if food is constantly available, unless we're stubborn enough to go hungry. "Eating healthy" is just not enough.

There are people who are exceptions and have high metabolic rates or don't store fat as efficiently, but they're a minority, because in the past, that genetic trait was a disadvantage, and it was selected against. (Also, if you're one of these, you might see your luck lessen as you grow older. I was skinny to the point of being medically underweight at certain points as a young girl. I'm still not overweight, but it's quite different now that I'm nearing 40.)

I don't think anybody should be punished for being obese. I don't think they should be rewarded, either.

Rewarded? There's a prize? I'll have to tell the obese folks I know that they have been missing out.

What did I win - I'm so excited.

Is Ed McMahon coming to my door?

Hey, good for you Sharon! I get so excited when my friends win things.

Now, where's my prize for being bald? I need corrective lenses - do I get something for that?

Honestly, sincere apologies to anybody with illnesses or ailments that led to this or any condition. I believe that you know that you were not the targets of this article.

Well, Dan....I guess there are four things no one should ever discuss now........

Religion, Politics, Sex...........and Fat People............

I think I'll write my next on on short people ... Nope Randy Newman already did that one.

Careful Dan, we short folks are at the right height to exact some rather painful revenge. : )

BERF: Good taste and common decency does not appear to have stopped you. Well, perhaps not about the over-weight.

Sorry for not fitting into your personal perspective on life, n.k.........

"Since When is Obesity a Handicap?"

Trust me dear, when you have a really fat boyfriend! Ugh!

My Clark's super tights are straining way too much on the periphery!

I think he's gonna blow!

Sorry for not fitting into your personal perspective on life, n.k.........

THE ONE & ONLY BERF .., Oct 10, 2008, 9:20am EDT

Aw, you don't have to apologize BERF. To each his own. Besides, I was just messing with you a little bit this morning.

Well, Dan....I guess there are four things no one should ever discuss now........

How do you figure that, Berf? If you say something, and a bunch of people tell you you're wrong, it means no one should ever discuss that thing? Does "discussion" mean everyone says "great article" and "you're the best"?

Well, Dan "got it" and that's all that matters to me.........

Dan, you claim to be compassionate, but say "But the truth of the matter is that most of these people have eaten, smoked and drank themselves into this condition while doing little or nothing in the way of exercise to mitigate the damage."

I'd like to know how you know this. A mobility disability has the added problem of making exercise much more difficult and leads to people with mobility problems gaining weight. I'd like to see you stave off obesity if you couldn't move. How do you know that in most of these cases the disability didn't come before the obesity?

I agree and disagree.

There are some medical conditions that make physical activity difficult. Because of this, those that have said conditions often become dreadfully overweight. A person with severe diabetes whose feet are so swollen they can't even stand is not going to be spending time power walking or on a stair stepper to loose weight.

On the other hand, many overweight people suffer from a self-inflicted medical condition. Like a person who smoked three packs a day and ends up with lung cancer, its a self-inflicted injury.

There is no way to look at a person and know which group they fall into. So we sort of need to give people we meet in public the benefit of the doubt.

Now you want to get talking about a real problem, try the idiot parents who let their overweight kids rid around in those ridiculously oversized shopping carts with the kiddie seat shaped like a taxi or fire truck. When I see a seven year old riding in the shopping cart chomping down on cookies, I want to slap the parent senseless!

Some people catch communicable diseases because they practice poor hygiene. Should they be denied medical treatment? Does it make a difference if it's an STD?

I'll bet people work hard to reach 500# just so they can get a handicapped parking placard. Sure. It's a great reward.

Let's add this to the pot... MOST people who are severely overweight suffer from emotional issues such as severely low self-esteem. That is usually, if not always, how eating disorders begin, and by eating disorders, I include anorexia nervosa as well as overeating.

If you are dealing with serious emotional issues, there is far more involved than just "eating less." One has to find a way to feel good about him/herself and that is a very difficult task which may or may not even be recognized or addressed by the medical "professionals."

I am overweight. Not obese, but I used to be. Before that, I was anorexic. Believe me, neither one is something I would be, just because it is "accepted."

Don't judge people until you walk in their shoes; so many judgemental people, As far as the co-worker, how did he know that women was not buying the cookies for her children, would he assume since she is over weight that she sits around and eats cookies all day. What a shallow mind!

I understand completely. You're jealous that you can't get a handicap tag because of your lifelong stupidity disorder, and you're taking it out on people with medical conditions you're unable to comprehend because of the same disorder.

Unless you're a doctor -- and I've had some doctors that aren't exactly the brightest bulbs in the chandelier, but they certainly come off as Stephen Hawking compared to you (bet you've got something to say about HIM having a handicap sticker, don't you?) -- you should refrain from conversations like these, unless you're actively showing your idiocy disorder in order to lobby for your cause. In which case, keep it up. I make fun of the extraordinarily stupid the same way you make fun of obesity, and I bet you're consistently good for a laugh.

The problem with the entire premise of this article is that is makes a judgment call about who and what someone is with a cursory glance at the outside of that person. That is why it's offensive. There are a thousand different stories on how people gain weight.

It could be a medical condition. It could be a metabolism issue. It could be thyroid issue. It could be diabetes. It could be certain medications. It could be the side effect of giving up smoking. It could be influenced by genetics. It might be the side effect of severe depression or mental illness. It might be an injury or congenital defect. It could be lack of education on intelligent eating or healthful exercise. It could be pure laziness or self-indulgence.

The problem isn't that it could be pure self-indulgence, it's that someone, with a glance, is making a judgment on a complex issue. The issue is made worse by the stigma that is still considered PC by many, since it's "self-inflicted." Late onset diabetes is picking up the same stigma since others are routinely dismissing that disease as "self-inflicted" too. Must I remind you of the damage done by the assumptions that went along with AIDS? Is this the path we want to take?

I'm fat. I know how I got here and what I will have to do to correct it. The issues were complicated and, no offense, none of your business. On the plane, I cram my fat ass in a narrow seat and deal. I walk from the far end of the parking lot. I think about every morsel of food and drink that passes my lips. I walk to and from lunch (bringing it most days, so I control what's in it) and to and from buildings whenever possible. I have no handicap placard, ask no favors, but then I'm mobile, otherwise healthy and stubborn. I don't have arthritis, horrific swelling, but the same defects that contribute to this will eventually change that situation.

Everyone makes choices in their life to decide who they are. Some make us who we are on the inside. Some makes us who we are on the outside. And some choices we don't get, even if someone on the outside thinks we do. But, given that the diet industry makes tens of billions of dollars a year with aids and ideas for people to try to overcome their weight issues, I think it's a hell of a stretch to assume we want to be the way we are across the board.

Perhaps you and your coworker feel smug enough to sneer at others and decide what someone else is entitled to eat, that your belittling of them as people is somehow going to help the situation. I don't think so.

As for "survival of the fittest," many a heavy person knows rejection because of their size or the low self esteem that often goes with it. It, in fact, takes an extraordinary person to appreciate the individual inside a large person.

My objection is really simple: we have a word for those that prejudge a person without knowing them based on limited factors. It's called prejudice.

So many excuses. With the exception of people who are paralyzed, everyone can do some kind of cardio exercise. And they can certainly eat right. I'm pretty sure that no one ever got fat on a vegetarian diet.

We're a nation of excuses. Depression, addiction, etc., etc. It's all in your minds.

OK everybody ... I researched a little and spoke with some medical professionals. And you know what? 99 44/100% of obesity is a matter of self discipline.

A simple matter of physical science here ... "Matter can neither be created or destroyed." In orther words, you can't gain 100 pounds unless you've put 100 pounds more into your body than you either passed back out or burned as energy.

If your metabolism is slowed for any reason, then guess what? You need to eat less.

Stop the BS excuses.

Stephanie, I have a word for people who make excuses. It's called a loser. If you give yourself an excuse to fail, you're very likely to fail.

Kris, I've never tried for a handicapped tag, even when my wife broke her foot in several places and was wheelchair bound for 3 months. She would have none of it, either.

And, Kris -- like it or not, these doctors did complete 4 years of Medical school, for which they went through 16 years excelling in grammar school, high school and college to qualify.

I don't understand why most insurances will fund gastric bypass but very very few (if any) will fund in vitro!!!! GGRRRR

Dan your wife wouldn't have qualified for a pass with a temporary issue. It has to be chronic and long term.

OK, Melinda. They didn't go through that. They just applied for the job and got it, right? Have another cheeseburger!

I am here from "Rating Resurrectionists"