Many conservative commentators have said that the liberal wing of the Democratic party cannot tell what they really want to do or what their vision for America really is because no one would vote for them if they did. To test if this is true I throw down the following challenge. If you are a liberal democrat, comment and tell us what your America would look like in 2016 after 8 years of Hillary as President. Assume a democratic congress the whole time for the sake of discussion. Just what would the US look like? Would we recognize it? Tell us if you dare. What is the goal of the Pelosi/Reid/Hillary wing of your party? Be specific and don't hold back (no meaningless statements like "energy independence" or "better security" allowed). Tell us how you want to do these or other things. If your vision is really that good, maybe the conservatives are wrong and the American people will support you.
To get you started, I'll start by putting down the democratic vision as I think I've heard it spoken or implied from your leaders:
- Borders not enforced. 2-3 million illegal immigrants enter the country every year (4 times 2005 figures).
- Highest Individual tax rate raised to 80%. All income subject to social security withholding. Minimum wage up to $12 per hour.
- Government health care system in place, no private companies provide employee health care.
- Radio stations required by reimplementation of the "Fairness Doctrine" to either cease talk radio format or have 50% democratic/liberal leaning hosts.
- Carbon tax in place on all businesses greater than 100 employees and all SUVs. Scientists who question mankind-related causes to global warming lose tenure and jobs.
- Abortions up to 2 million per year as active planned parenthood clinics installed in most US schools. Any girl 12 or older can get abortions without parental consent.
- Home schools banned.
- US military forces deployed overseas routinely placed under the control of the UN.
- Gays allowed in military and in all positions in all businesses and churches (including teachers, scout leaders, and day-care workers).
- Hate crimes enforced for sexual preference but not for anti-Christian crimes.
- Verbal Christian prayers prohibited in all public schools and public settings (because they are divisive and non-inclusive). Church leaders indicted routinely for mentioning social/political issues from the the pulpit. Efforts are underway to withdraw churches tax-exempt status.
- Bill Clinton birthday national holiday established (just kidding, lighten up!)
I know this is an inadequate start but if you liberal democrats are so proud of your vision and believe that the country will rally around it then truthfully tell us what it is. Or would we even be a country anymore or just part of a newly-formed North American Union? It would be especially helpful if you would get some of your presidential candidates to weigh in and tell us their views. Note that it is not necessary to criticize current or past administrations in order to complete this exercise. Show some courage , actually tell us what you want!
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Comments: 38
There would be a government approved grocery list. Any food item not on the approved list would have a surcharge attached to compensate the government for the increased cost of obesity. Fast food restaurant orders would also have a surcharge included in the cost. The price of cigarettes would include an additional 20% combined health-pollution tax.
Screening for HIV/AIDS as well as all related treatments would be free.
All sales of alcohol would include a 50% surcharge to cover the increased health related cost of alcoholism as well as the cost of prosecuting drunk drivers. First time convictions of DUI would carry a mandatory 1 year incarceration followed by 6 months in a drug/alcohol rehabilitation center.
All able bodied citizens would be required to attend government approved exercise programs at least three times a week.
Any automobile getting less than 50 mpg would be required to pay an additional tax when filling up to pay for public transportation projects. There would be an additional 20% sales tax on any automobile getting less than 50 mpg and all powerboats regardless of size. Sailboats with less than 50 hp motors would be exempt from any taxes.
All homeowners whose homes are larger than 2000 sq. ft would pay an Excess Property Tax to cover the cost of building low-income housing.
All schools would be required to teach all classes in Spanish as well as English. Six years of soccer would be a requirement for graduation. All schools would be required to provide free breakfast and lunch to all students. Parents of students whose family income exceeds $50,000 per year would be required to pay a per-student registration fee to pay for lunches, books, and related supplies for low-income students.
There are more, but, hey, she's only got 8 years to get all this done.
This is a lot like a marriage, we find one that is georgeous but violent or loving but an addict ... too bad we can't choose the best values from each politician.
So it's looking like this is going to be a compromise and I hope middle class America comes out ahead.
You guys sound scary.
You want guns and bullets to stay? You want children who get raped to bare the child instead of abort?
You want medical testing to be costly? What if you got Hep-C or AIDS from a blood transfusion at a hospital to save your life and it was tainted?
You want only non-gays in the military but there are millions of them around the world and many of them are in good shape and are able to do a better job than some stupid podunk kids with acne and a GED?
You think Home Schooling is a good thing-what, so those kids never learn anything but what is enforced by their parents who could be total psycho loonies?
You want verbal Christian Prayers in the schools? What kind of Christian Prayers? from what denomination-Presbyterian, Baptist, Lutheran? Does it matter what kind? because I may only want to hear Christian prayers from my church. Or I may prefer quiet prayers-alone, and I may find offensive if the words spoken in church are also spoken in public.
If minimum wage was $12 an hour, that means that any college grad could make much more than they do now. Those without a real degree would still make about 36K a year. That sounds pretty good for a home schooled person who would be shut out of any major corporate position.
This is odd........
I would like to know what liberal democrats' vision for the country is, but I'll let them answer for themselves.
Then maybe conservatives can begin to define how they are different from neoconservatives. I don't know which you see yourself as being.
BTW, didn't you write this in another article on how to be an American?
"9) Concentrate more on those things which make us the "United" States of America than those things which would divide us. Find things to agree on."
My one issue is: Illegal Immigration. It is just plain WRONG!!!! It is not ok with me to break federal laws and it is not ok to use American tax money if you are not a US citizen.
Almost 20 years ago GM came out with the EV1 which it leased only. These had first generation NiCad batteries and the people LOVED them. However, Chevron didn't like this and together with GM they took back and DESTROYED the EV1's. This was not a hybrid, it was a full electric car that worked! There have been developments in battery technology that can 10 fold the efficiency of the EV1. Those patents have been bought by either oil or auto interests.
So is this energy scare real .... NO! We are here because of reasons and it's not efficiency. The White House was off the grid due to solar panels, Regan had them taken down. I don't understand it, who could possibly be against reduced oil consumption?
I want the same immigration policy that mexico has.
The American Indian understands what happens when a country allows uncontrollable immigration.
You are clearly biased against Democrats (which is not the same thing as liberal).
About the borders. Remember that George Bush is for the guest worker program and against the fence. Sounds as if there are problems with both sides, Ken.
My list was a strawman (as Steve said) and not really the point of discussion. What I'm trying to do is to get the democrats out there to tell what they want and why. That said, I will respond to some of your questions:
"You want guns and bullets to stay?" - The Second Amendment allows these to stay.
" You want children who get raped to bare the child instead of abort?" - We abort 1 out of 5 babies conceived in the US. Isn't that a high number that does damage to women, families, and to the nation's moral backbone? What percentage of those are due to rape and what percentage due to convenience?
"You want medical testing to be costly?" - No and it wouldn't be as expensive if there was more knowledgable choice by patients about where they get care(when applicable), if doctor's didn't protect each other as they do, and if we pooped the "My doc is great like Marcus Welby" bubble.
"You want only non-gays in the military ..." - Openly gay military personnel would at minimum be a distraction.
"are able to do a better job than some stupid podunk kids with acne and a GED?" - Our military is volunteer and by any measure manned by smart, dedicated, very professional soldiers.
"You think Home Schooling is a good thing-what, so those kids never learn anything but what is enforced by their parents who could be total psycho loonies?" - Homeschool parents are committed and involved people who want their kids to succeed in the real world and don't believe public education accomplishes that. Also I believe statistics show that home-schooled kids perfrom quite well against their publically educated peers.
"and I may find offensive if the words spoken in church are also spoken in public." - The one right that is NOT in the Constitution is the right not to e offended.
Steve,
I said that my "strawman" list was inadequete and only what I thought I heard. I also said at least 5 times I want to hear what democrats want accomplished during a Hillary term. I don't think that's dishonest or illogical.
My previous article that you mentioned was intended to try and list things we could ALL agree on as Americans. The political positions and goals we have is not unanimous and thus the fodder for elections and campaigns.
It was during the the Clinton administration that California stopped reporting their abortion statistics to the CDC. Wonder why they did that?
You are correct in observing that the democrats are not the same as liberals but you can't deny that the leaders in your party are definitely of the more liberal persuasion - I'm thinking of Pelosi, Reid, and Hillary.
I vehemently disagree with Bush on his immigration stand. Why don't democrats ever say that they vehemently disagree with Hillary , or Reid, or Pelosi - on anything?
In an effort to draw out an oppomamt you kinda went over the edge in your profile!
Just out of curiosity... you said
"You want only non-gays in the military ..." - Openly gay military personnel would at minimum be a distraction.
Would you also ban Women? Because we must be a distraction as well?
I often disagree with Hillary! And I say so...ALL the time. As do others!
Please share with us what you disagree with her about.
Take a look at it again. If you don't think it's dishonest or illogical, then you have a blind spot. I could only then suggest that you ask 20 or so people, who are not your buddies, to read it and ask for some honest feedback.
Ken: "The political positions and goals we have is not unanimous and thus the fodder for elections and campaigns."
True, but taunting your political opponents is not the same thing as debate, and a liberal democrat would have to be masochistic to take the bait you lay out in this article. Again, if you want to know what people think, just ask them - and then be willing to listen to their answers. Agreement is not the point, but respect is.
No matter how respectfully I ask, the responses from the left will be few. The presumed Democratic nominee herself answers few "real" questions and controls whom she will grant interviews. The Democratic party website has many non-specific phrases like "real security" and "energy-independence" without actual steps to achieve these goals. See that's the thing, conservatives say specifically that they want a smaller more focused government, lower taxes, a simpler tax code, a border that we control, an active campaign against those terrorists groups that desire to and have tried to kill many of us. And before you launch off, I know that sometimes conservatives don't always vote these principles for a pallet of reasons. What the democrats won't say is what they really want (except to get rid of Bush - but that happens anyway in a little more than a year). I think liberal democrats should be HONEST and tell people where they are really heading and what they really want this country to be. The fact that that you refer to me as "laying out bait " for them reveals that my premise might well be true. That is, if they answer with their true intentions and goals, they would be trapped or "found-out" by their own words.
You surely haven't proven that here.
Ken: "The fact that that you refer to me as "laying out bait " for them reveals that my premise might well be true."
"...might well be true." That's your assumption (as opposed to a fact).
Ken: "...if they answer with their true intentions and goals, they would be trapped or "found-out" by their own words."
That sounds like your goal, which is certainly not the same thing as creating dialogue to come up to solutions to very difficult problems.
I'm not saying liberal democrats are any different. They have their own style of "gotcha politics". I just think it should all stop, because there can be no honest debate of issues while the trash talk is the rule.
Anyway, as a moderate independent, I said what my vision is.
Do you honestly think that most democrats actually agree with the liberal policies of Pelosi Reid, and the Hillary we will see should she become President? They may be happy in the middle but that's not what they will get if Hillary wins.
For further definitions, see George Orwell's "1984".
Thanks for putting the challenge out there for the wing-nuts to consider Mr. S!
I did see much tap-dancing, though. Typical.
Too bad.
1) An efficient government- That is wherever it spends our money we zealously demand that it do so in a thrifty and effective manner. Means we tolerate no fraud or abuse.
2) That our legislators respect the Constitution and continually tell us why what they want to do is in alignment with that document. Means everyday they say stuff like ," I voted for this because it promotes the general welfare" or whatever. If it doesn't we could easily see that.
3) That we don't have earmark spending - ever! See #2 above. Would cut down on vote buying. - Go to a several Senators' websites and see how many have a section on "Where I've gotten the Feds to spend $ on our State".
4) That we remember that as Americans we have more in common than we have things that divide us and focus on those common ideals than on our differences.
I'm just saying..
Enact term limits for all Senators and Congressmen.
What problem do you have with conservative ideas like developing domestic energy sources (creates US jobs also), respecting a culture of life, insisting on reduced/no earmark spending, and even implementing the fairtax (so as to revitalize the economy , add more tax payers, and stop the corruption of constantly changing the tax code in order to choose winners/losers in exchange for political favors)?