Under The Sacrificial Lamb

A ten. Coming back to comment later when I can concentrate.

Super -

I don't know what's better - the poem or Dean's comment.

I'll come back later and hope there's more super comments.

Dean, I find your message illuminating. I do believe I read and commented on your excellent poem. I would definitely recommend almost all of your poems to anyone. I retain my faith, but it's hard for me to reconcile my own personal faith with the politics of religion I see in this country. I do not believe in hell. Some of my Christian views would be considered extremely liberal. My wife is Buddhist, but only in mame.

Peter, I agree with you. I'm very happy to share the stage.

There are too many who give Christians a bad name. Too many use his cover like a wolf in sheep's clothing. You can tell a tree by it's fruits and thus a Christians. I live my beliefs and it hurts me when people say their Christians but don't follow Jesus's commandment to love one another.

Heather, speak up against those who use God's house to preach politics and hate. The House of God is for worship and lifting up people.

Wow, fascinating William. Bravo

Thanks for gearing me towards your articles. You are a brilliant writer.

Organized religion holds no appeal for me...over the centuries it has been used for the most heinous crimes against fellow human beings. Are we not all a part of God and he a part of us? Are we not spirits swimming in the sea of God's eye? Should we not follow the path God set out for us...to be kind, loving human beings.

Religion has no place in political debates. I have a difficult time with people who say they are Christian and have no love for their fellow man.

I was raised a Baptist and my husband a Presbyterian but we mainly follow the pagan beliefs because we have both sworn off the rigors and exclusionary barriers that most organized religion require. We try to follow the tenets of the earlier religions - treat others as you wish to be treated, do not harm, love those who love you but open yourself to others as love is infinite, take care of your part of life and do your part and be aware of those who deny your rights but we do not believe in violence or manipulation. I found comfort in Jesus as a child and young adult because I trusted without question but college changed me and brought other people, other religions, other cultures into my universe and the chains of the Southern Baptist upbringing made it impossible for me to share with them unless I constantly browbeat them into listening to my Baptist litany so I shut up and opened up looking for common ground with other Christians, non-Christians, pagans, atheists and agnostics. I still believe in God, a higher power, a universal point of greater good and/or control but my shackles of Baptist belief were long ago shrugged off and lost in the sands of time. My biggest peeve was the last pastor I had who told me whom to vote for because he was the voice of God speaking to the congregation - I walked away from him but not my religion.

Shackles off here too...I have faith in the CREATOR, but do not wish to be brainwashed any further into what many perceive to be religion today.William, you hit the mark, as always :) and, dean, i am in awe of you :)

no mind is shackled to religion without will
a man born in a jungle can find religion if he wills
a man born into religion will leave when he ills
what did you actually say here
poetic prose well written yes
attacking the extreme right god bless
join the club
and so?

I agree with the sentiments of your writing here today William. I wonder if a person could even run for the office of President if they refused to play the church game.

There are millions of people in this country who are not Christians, but who are good decent people and live by strong moral codes. As you say, your wife is Buddhist in her beliefs, her and millions like her could probably never attempt a bid for the Presidental seat. And why....because of hypocrites who think church = Christian = good = honest. How many times does it have to shoved in our faces before the citizens of this country realize that people will play at anything to be elected. Give me an honest atheist any day of the week over a crooked Christian.

Like Heather, it hurts me to see all the things done supposedly in the name of Christ that are against his teachings. I know I am not a saint. I am not perfect, just forgiven. It is not my place to judge any, that will be up to God, and I will have to face that judgement just as much. My task is to live what I believe with His help. This is a wonderful statement of truth and true faith.

Your poem is wonderful William, you state your beliefs so well, and your reasoning behind them, I believe religion or worship is a private thing and should not be a politacal football nor tossed around in any way. I have a deep and abiding faith which sustains me, but I don't have to go into a church to have it, it is from within my heart and soul, that is where it begins and ends with me,

excellent, William... under the sacrificial lamb.... excellent.... thank you...

William, You said it very well. I haven't given up totally, but I do not go to church expecting to find, I go in spite of knowing seriously what is missing, and somehow hoping to connect to a belief that was good and kind and loving. There was a reason the Constitution was written the way it was. And I was horrified to hear one of Huckabee's comments. Sometimes it just scares the living wits out of me what is happening.

I was born and raised a Catholic. I no longer belong to any specific religion for many of the same reasons you and others here have cited. I DO still believe in God. I would be afraid not to.

William,
This powerful declamation has triggered a lot of strongly felt comments on this thread, an excellent sign in my book for a poem that has connected with people´s spiritual views in the face of many currently distorted religious doctrines--which you rightly call ´dogmas--of today. I think a lot of the televangelists first, with all their fury reserved for the secular culture they disparage as Satanic, as well as other religions--calling Islam an abomination after 1, 300 years of co-existence, for instance, and further polarizing the other great monotheism (in terms of numbers) against the Christian faith.

I accidentally posted before I was through. I liked the irregular rhyme scheme that relies principally on couplets but goes to triplets by the end of the poem; there are also rhymes that develop across the stanzas with ´obey´and ´way´ and ´blame, name, shame, and proclaim.´(I enjoy this technical stuff on the level of poet to poet, and I point it out because I like to do original work like this, I enjoy studying one great contemporary poet, James Merrill, who is a master at bringing a formal unity to a poem on an unconscious level through end rhymes in the actual texture of the entire poem as you have done here. ) Sometimes it´s useful to point things like this out rather than address the actual meaning of the poem, which I think Dean has done superbly at the top of the comments, anyhow.

To sum up: Dotani the iconoclast of the false tablets, in grand form!

I, too, hate to hear the politicians bragging about their Christianity and how they are the better person. I feel like that should be between the individual and God. As I've said before, I still attend church but it is a low key non denominational one that just talks about God's word. I attended the Catholic Church for years and still love some aspects of it but do not go there any more.

Hi Bill
That's a very well written poem and hardly needs a comment from me.
What you didn't say, others have.

I'll merely add these few points which I think haven't been debated enough.

I don't think that the US election will be decided on any religious belief. I think that race, Iraq, bad economic management and catastrophic environmental handling will decide the day.
I don't think that being a Christian automatically implies hatred for any other religion.
The Christian command of forgiveness is unmatched in any other religion, I think.
Christians have been and still are cruel but so are members of all religions.
When I go to church, I don't listen to the peacher. I commune directly with God.
When I go for walks and hikes, I too commune with God.
I don't believe that thinking and talking about one's religion is the main issue. One is only religious if one acts out one's religious beliefs as given in the relevant Holy Book.

Bill, I know that you like crits. Well these are not really crits but merely views from another side. I fully agree with you that one must stay away from false practices.

Good job William. I struggle too with the idea of policitians using God instead of waiting to be used by him. Not all who cry "Lord lord," know whose name they're taking.

Perhaps religion and politics will always get mixed up. But faith and politics are two entirely separate things.

Beautiful

This is intense William, and good.
I have always felt hate only fuels bad karma.

Oh, and one more thing..
HAHA I just for the first time noticed your namespace name. You are too funny!

I really love this one, William! Thank you so much! 100!

A serious, well-conceived poem!. In it's spirit, I hope the election, our politics, and world relationships will someday be based on the proper treatment of each other rather than the dogma of exclusiveism found in so much religious teaching. Let's just remember that it is the adherents that teach (and practice) this ... not, generally, the religion itself. One Sacrificial Lamb weeps over what has been done.

Yes William, all this talk about church and faith and God in politics is - at least unnecessary. Probably immoral, because it is not based on belief but on polls...

I have a strong belief in God, but think politics should stay out of religion. Elsie said it all. It is a personal matter .

Wow. This poem says so much. I struggle regularly with faith issues, wondering, in the end, which truth I embrace. "Mainstream" Christianity has turned me off for well over a decade now, and I wonder oftentimes if there is a place for first-century style Christianity, or if it is too much of an anachronism to survive in the post-modern world.

Came back to reread this, so now I'm not sure I agree with my comment. Maybe politics is about faith in man, and religion about faith in God. Maybe that's why we get so messed up when we mix them up - end up forgetting which is which and who is who.

Very deep. I think I can tell you are a song writer from the way you organize your lines. Very nice William.