by Col. George W.
Member since:
May 18, 2007

For those who are continuing to be concerned about the citizenship issue of Barack Obama,

August 07, 2009 02:47 PM EDT
views: 129 | rating: 7.6/10 (15 votes) | comments: 87

For those who are continuing to be concerned about the citizenship issue of Barack Obama, this is a good piece of information.

The American people not only deserve to have answers to these questions,
they must have answers
It makes the debate over Obama's citizenship a rather short and simple
one.
Q: Did he travel to Pakistan in 1981, at age 20?
A : Yes, by his own admission.

Q: Is it possible that Obama traveled with a U.S. Passport in 1981?
A: No. It is not possible.
Pakistan was on the U.S. State Department's "no travel" list in
1981.

****   I know it could be that he traveled to another country and then to Pakistan or used some other method to visit Pakistan.   i.e.  People travel to Cuba a lot, yet Cuba is on the no travel list.. 

What does that prove?   Well for one thing it proves he is less than honest but we already knew that. 

If he traveled with a passport other than one from the US it means he claimed citizenship in another country.  Therefore he is not a Natural Born Citizen.  In fact since he has never been naturalized he must not even be an American.  

One thing I would like to know.   Why did he travel to Pakistan anyway?  He was supposed to be in school at that time, not traveling all over the world.  He is supposed to have come from a family of modest means.  Where did he get the money to make a world tour? 

The Birthers are looking for the wrong document.  They should be looking for his passport or the application for one. 

I’m not saying he is not a citizen or not qualified or even a pretender.  I am saying the questions about him should be answered and answered quickly.


      

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Comments: 87

Deloris Wright Aug 7, 2009, 2:52pm EDT
That is a good question.? What kind of travel plans did he make?And from what county was his pass port from.
L. H. Aug 7, 2009, 2:53pm EDT
I agree.
Col. George W. Aug 7, 2009, 3:04pm EDT
Before any idiot brings it up.. This article does not have a Damn thing to do with the color of his skin.
Kevin (''The SiteWizard'') V. Aug 7, 2009, 3:22pm EDT


I was unaware that President Obama's citizenship was in question. I thought the issue (for some) was whether he was born a citizen of the United States. These are two different questions.
Col. George W. Aug 7, 2009, 4:02pm EDT
Both have been questioned Kevin.
Matthew M. Aug 7, 2009, 3:58pm EDT
Great post Col, aside from his location of birth there are other concerns. Could be that we have been a little distracted by the whole birth certificate issue.

The possibility that he is a dual citizen also exists, as his father was not American but British.

I hope the courts pick this issue up fast- as we have seen over the past year there will be no cooperation from the Obama camp.
Col. George W. Aug 7, 2009, 4:03pm EDT
Olbama will continue to fight it going to court. I wonder why.
Col. George W. Aug 7, 2009, 4:08pm EDT
Another quesion that bothers me is What passport was used when he moved from Indoneasia back to the United States? Did he have a passsport when he left Hawaii to move to Indonesia or was the fact he was a child and his step dad a citizen enough.
Christos G. Aug 7, 2009, 6:27pm EDT
Col, my roomate in college went to Cuba with a US passport. The travel was authorized by the State Department. THat's all I have to say.
Col. George W. Aug 7, 2009, 7:54pm EDT
Hummmm, One of the Gaterites told me you couldn't go to Cuba with a US passport but people were finding a way to do it anyway.
Christos G. Aug 8, 2009, 8:50am EDT
He certainly did and this was 15 years ago. I looked into the state department site (http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1097.html) and it is still possible.

On another note, this is more of a question that I will research a bit, the US policy on dual nationality is not clear to me as it relates to natural born. The status of "natural born" is aquired at birh. One of your parents is a US citizen adult and/or you are born here, and voila, you are a natural born citizen. What happens when you apply for and receive another passport from another country. You don't lose your US citizenship, that I know for sure.

A U.S. citizen may acquire foreign citizenship by marriage, or a person naturalized as a U.S. citizen may not lose the citizenship of the country of birth.U.S. law does not mention dual nationality or require a person to choose one citizenship or another.</</em>strong>

The above quote is copied directly from the state department site: http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1753.html
Col. George W. Aug 8, 2009, 9:25am EDT
Same site: "The U.S. Government recognizes that dual nationality exists but does not encourage it as a matter of policy because of the problems it may cause. Claims of other countries on dual national U.S. citizens may conflict with U.S. law, and dual nationality may limit U.S. Government efforts to assist citizens abroad. The country where a dual national is located generally has a stronger claim to that person's allegiance.

However, dual nationals owe allegiance to both the United States and the foreign country. They are required to obey the laws of both countries."
Christos G. Aug 9, 2009, 12:46pm EDT
Still a kid born today in the US is a natural born citizen. That kid can have one parent who is foreign or a dual citizen and considered a citizen of another country de facto. That kid can have a foreign passport and that kid can run for president some day.

Bottom line, the law did not account for all of this. I am familiar with this because my parents are from Greece and I could go get a Greek passport any time I want to.
Col. George W. Aug 9, 2009, 1:38pm EDT
The defination of Natural Born has not been decided yet Christos.
Chuck L. Aug 9, 2009, 9:57pm EDT
Of COURSE it has, Colonel.
Ron B. Aug 7, 2009, 8:03pm EDT
The "issues" sound more racist every day.
Col. George W. Aug 7, 2009, 9:42pm EDT
Only if you consider a horses posterier a race Ron
Ron B. Aug 7, 2009, 11:59pm EDT
Tell somebody who gives a shit...
Col. George W. Aug 8, 2009, 12:16am EDT
This question needs to be put to rest one way or another. I really don't care how it turns out as long as it is settled.
Sandy (Site Psychic™) Knauer Aug 9, 2009, 5:58pm EDT
Since you don't care, I am telling you once and for all that you are insane to continue this nonsense. Barack Obama is your legitimate President. Grow up and stop posting this nonsense.

That's settled. Feel better?
Col. George W. Aug 9, 2009, 6:57pm EDT
Sandy, What is the TITLE of the article? Where did I say he was NOT President?
River Walker Sep 7, 2009, 3:47pm EDT
have you considered that perhaps it is *already* settled, and you just don't know about it? I mean I could conceive that it very likely is not an issue whatsoever, and a laymen's lack of understanding of the intricacies of the relevant laws, might make it SEEM questionable, when in reality it would not be so.
Col. George W. Sep 7, 2009, 7:08pm EDT
River, are you a lawyer? yu talk in circles.
It is answered on the site, www.factcheck.org, where his birth certificate is there, saying that he was born in Honolulu, but not his home address,which to my knowledge, was never given out. Being that Kenya was a British Colony, at his time of birth (again, according to factcheck), that made him, up until 1982, a British Citizen, even after his mother and father divorced.
Apparently, he could have renewed that in '82, but chose not to, making him an American Naturalized citizen, also making his passport in '81, British. You can check all of this on FactCheck. That's where I found it.

I also happen to agree that this ought not to be such a huge secret.

Marilyn
Col. George W. Aug 8, 2009, 10:33am EDT
Its a big secret because he knows if it every went to the SCOTUS he might not be a Natural Born Citizen since he holds or held dual citizenship. I think he is afraid of their decision. He is supposedly a Constitutional scholar and has a good idea what the court would decide.
Lori F. Aug 8, 2009, 10:38am EDT
Marilyn nice try but people like Colonel dont want to hear anything about facts they prefer conjecture and innuendo and nonsense.
Col. George W. Aug 8, 2009, 11:10am EDT
So Lori, why else would he spend so much to keep it out of court? That's what I am tring to figure out. What is the big secret? What I want to hear are Facts. Lets have some. Since Natural Born has not been defined it is impossable to say one way or another. Maybe, I repeat Maybe that is his reason.
Clifford N. Aug 8, 2009, 11:12am EDT
Marilyn,
If you will read the article closely on factcheck, you will see that what is posted is a copy of a copy that has been altered with sections vital to identification blacked out.

Tests have shown this to be a forgery. That is beyond question.
Lori F. Aug 8, 2009, 11:37am EDT
Colonel and how much money do you feel he has spent? And how do you know this?

The state of Hawaii has verfied his birth certificate not once but twice.

The SCOTUS which is mostly Republican hasnt asked to hear the case...in fact it has been thrown out in lower courts...why you might ask? Because they think its ridiculous also.

I find it funny that you are so willing to disregard state officials but anyone can post some phony as all get out Kenya BC and you jump on it as the truth. And do you even KNOW what a Kenyan BC looks like? Have you ever seen one? I havent.

Then you have nutcases like Clifford N. He apparently KNOWS more than anyone. Obvious forgery???????? Where the hell do you people get this nonsense?
Col. George W. Aug 8, 2009, 12:50pm EDT
Depending on who you want to believe it is anywhere from 500k to a million. Of course I get those figures from somewhat less than accurite sites.

No the lower courts have said the plaintif did not show they were affected. The lower Courts do not have Jurisdiction anyway now. Only SCOTUS has jurisdiction acording to the Constitution.

I did not say a I thought it was the truth at all. In fact I said I thught the thing was settled Lori. The one Fact Check has is the one that was altered. The fact that Hawaii authinticated their document is what is significant. I don't know why certian parts of that first one were blacked out. There had to be a reason but only Obama knows what that reason might be.

To keep the Birthers stirred up and make the Republicans look like fools? Who sent that Kenyan BC to the attorney? Someone who wants to keep the contraversy alive? For what reason? Pretend to be a Republican to keep them looking foolish?

Can you tell I don't trust Professional Politicians?
Have you ever read or seen the "Amityville Horror"? Amityville, the town, had to change the name of the street AND the house number to keep tourists from destroying their town. What do you think would happen if Obama's home address was revealed to the masses?
Lori F. Aug 8, 2009, 11:40am EDT
And another thing. I am tired of people like you and Clifford bitching about all the money Obama is wasting but yet support all the money AND court time that is being wasted on this bullshat.

Obama is black, smart and more successful than people like Clifford will ever be. Obama is YOUR president and mine. The majority of people in the US elected him. YOU LOST....Get over IT.
Jeff H. Aug 8, 2009, 11:52am EDT
"""Obama is black, smart and more successful than people like Clifford will ever be. """"

"HALF BLACK!!!" says the white duck........
Chuck L. Aug 8, 2009, 11:54am EDT
Hear! Hear!
Col. George W. Aug 8, 2009, 1:47pm EDT
How do you know Jeff, Are you intimately aquointed with Clifford? He might be extremely successful in his field.
Jeff H. Aug 8, 2009, 11:51am EDT
I don't mind if people want answers to questions raised in this post but I seriously think accusing Obama of being a foreigner is beating a dead horse, if not a retarded one. The man behind the curtain in the Obama camp doesn't want to put an end to this controversy because most people think birthers are conspiracy kooks. Ask the questions but don't call Obama a foreigner. His mother is an American which makes him an American.
Col. George W. Aug 8, 2009, 11:59am EDT
Wow we got all this way before the Racist Democrats stepped in. As I said Lori. this is not about his race.

No he is being acused of having Dual Citizenship more than anything else Jeff.
Chuck L. Aug 8, 2009, 11:59am EDT
His mother was an American CITIZEN, which makes him a NATURAL BORN American CITIZEN! And BTW, with the exception of Cuba (and under some conditions it's even possible to go there), there are NO countries which travel is forbidded, nor were there in 1981. What that "no travel" interdict meant was, if you go there, you're on your own. If you get in trouble, we can't help." And that's ALL it meant.
Col. George W. Aug 8, 2009, 12:10pm EDT
Not necessarly Chuck. That has yet to be determined. It is obvious by the language in the Constitution that they made a distinction between Citizen and Natural Born Citizen.

Have you looked that up, about the no travel list Chuck?
Col. George W. Aug 8, 2009, 12:26pm EDT
I looked it up for you buddy. You are right. The rules essentually say you are nuts if you want to travel in a long list of countries. I don't know what the rules were in 1981
Chuck L. Aug 9, 2009, 10:01pm EDT
The same
Lori F. Aug 8, 2009, 12:36pm EDT
Colonel how interesting I just said Obama was black and smart YOU made the racist comment.

Be careful your true colors are showing.
Col. George W. Aug 8, 2009, 12:52pm EDT
No Lori, You brought up race. I did not.
Lori F. Aug 8, 2009, 5:46pm EDT
Colonel spin it however you want it. Me thinks you doth protest too much.
Col. George W. Aug 8, 2009, 6:28pm EDT
A little Shakesphere Lori? Nah I just have fun. Want to read something really serious I wrote? Wait until you read THE MARCH TO OLAGARTHY.

Shakesphere got his family name because one of his ancesters was a sholdier in the Army. He used to stand in front of the line of men and shake his spear at the enemy. Thus he aquired the name.
Totally off topic, but really funny. I read in Reader's Digest @ work section about an english teacher teaching her class Hamlet, I think, anyway, one of the students asked her why Shakespeare was so important when all he did was write in cliches.
Mary S. Aug 8, 2009, 12:51pm EDT
Okay folks... this has to stop. My ex father-in-law traveled to Cuba a couple of years ago... with a US passport! The way to get around the US travel embargo is to fly to a country that allows travel to Cuba (in his case, Mexico), take a connecting flight to Cuba, when the Cuban customs agent offers to NOT stamp your passport - say, "sure". Not too difficult to get around these blocks now, is it?
Col. George W. Aug 8, 2009, 12:54pm EDT
Evidently not. Does that make you ex father-in-law an honest man?
Col. George W. Aug 8, 2009, 12:55pm EDT
In fact you answered the question. Obama was on a world tour so he had to have stopped in other countries before visiting Pakastan.
Mary S. Aug 8, 2009, 6:51pm EDT
Col., I don't know whether Obama was on a world tour or not. I'm just saying that my ex father-in-law signed up for a photography vacation package and the stops were Mexico, Puerto Rico, and Cuba.
Randy W. Aug 8, 2009, 6:38pm EDT
When President Obama is impeached for leading this country into financial ruin, we won't care about his birth certificate.
Col. George W. Aug 8, 2009, 7:12pm EDT
You can't impeach a president any more Randy. Nixon resigned and was not impeached for lying to Congress. Clinton made a political point of it and got away with his lies. Bush was never impeached because the speaker of the house took it off the table.
Randy W. Aug 9, 2009, 7:21am EDT
George, none of them ruined the U.S. economy, it was just about politics.

Now the people are mad as hell...
Col. George W. Aug 9, 2009, 10:47am EDT
I beg to differ Randy. It is part of a pattern. Please read my article about the MARCH TO OLIGARTHY.
As for being poor and going on a tour. My "sister" grew up in a trailer park, her mother kicked her out at 17 with a pillowcase full of posessions. When she was 21 she had saved up enough money to go on a "student" European tour.
Jeff H. Aug 8, 2009, 10:41pm EDT
LOL!
What did I write in the above comment that so amuzed you?
Jeff H. Aug 9, 2009, 12:04am EDT
Sounds like a made for Lifetime movie. I thought the story was going to end in your sister hitching a ride on a cargo train, going down to Florida's greener pastures and becoming a highly successful fruit picker but I suppose a foreign student tour world work with a few modifications to the script....
Are you really that big of an ass or do you just play one on Gather?
Jeff H. Aug 9, 2009, 7:13am EDT
I like to think of myself as a visionary. Sue me. I am surprised that no one from the far reaching tentacles of your nuclear family has jumped in and threatened to beat me up like they usually do.

My advice to you would be to write an auto biography, in fact a serious of them, and you'll get that Lifetime movie. I'd be the first in line to hear the rest of your story.
Sandy (Site Psychic™) Knauer Aug 9, 2009, 6:02pm EDT
And after you finish writing your "serious of auto biographies" you can come back and explain the difference between series and serious to Jeff. He'll still be here spouting the same bushit.
Chuck L. Aug 9, 2009, 10:06pm EDT
Hi, Jeff. *sound of knuckles cracking* How've ya been , Squirt?
OH, I see, you're just a mysogonist.
Wil B. Aug 9, 2009, 12:03am EDT
"Pakistan was on the U.S. State Department's "no travel" list in 1981."

No it wasn't. This is just a bunch of birther BS without a shred of evidence to support it. This myth has been busted here.
Randy W. Aug 9, 2009, 8:23am EDT
Wil what is it about you guys and name-calling?

During the Bush years, we had the liberal "draft-dodgers" backing up Dan Rather's lies (debunked by Rather's firing). Oh, and the "no-nukers" claiming "Bush lied people died" about the Iraq nukes (debunked by a majority of foreign intelligence services.

Conservatives didn't feel it necessary to label their opponents, but I guess labeling is just part of your propaganda campaign.

I liked it better when we were able to discuss issues without name calling, but I guess those days are gone forever.
Col. George W. Aug 9, 2009, 10:43am EDT
Wil if you read the comments you would know we already settled that question.

Randy, Will is trying to be the ultimate Troll. He loves to argue anything and he can't speak without some kind of "label". Usually I just ignore his rants.
Wil B. Aug 9, 2009, 5:47pm EDT
"Conservatives didn't feel it necessary to label their opponents, but I guess labeling is just part of your propaganda campaign"

Surely you can't be serious.

"I liked it better when we were able to discuss issues without name calling, but I guess those days are gone forever."

Uh-huh. This from a guy whose Gather status line calls the President of the United States "The Quintessential Liberal Fascist"? Get real, Randy.
Wil B. Aug 9, 2009, 5:51pm EDT
"Wil if you read the comments you would know we already settled that question."

I read the comments, George, and I didn't see any comment from you acknowledging that the Birther accusation regarding the trip to Pakistan was obvious BS. The last relevant comment from you that I read said "I don't know what the rules were in 1981."
Wil B. Aug 9, 2009, 5:52pm EDT
"Randy, Will is trying to be the ultimate Troll. He loves to argue anything and he can't speak without some kind of "label"."

The really sad part is that I honestly don't think you see the hypocrisy.
Sandy (Site Psychic™) Knauer Aug 9, 2009, 6:03pm EDT
I saw this comment on my feed and had to come in to see if it was really what it looked like: "Conservatives didn't feel it necessary to label their opponents, but I guess labeling is just part of your propaganda campaign"


Surely you can't be serious. (Darn you, Wil, for dragging me in here.)

Unfreakingbelievable. Are these people really this ignorant, or are they trying to see how much bigger the lies can get?
Col. George W. Aug 9, 2009, 6:35pm EDT
Wil and Sandy, so then are you saying you wish to discuss things rationally? That would be a nice thing.

Neither one of you have read the article. I can tell by your comments.
Col. George W. Aug 9, 2009, 6:50pm EDT
Wil, "I read the comments, George, and I didn't see any comment from you acknowledging that the Birther accusation regarding the trip to Pakistan was obvious BS."

I'll repeat it then

" Col. George W. Aug 8, 2009, 12:26pm EDT
I looked it up for you buddy. You are right. The rules essentually say you are nuts if you want to travel in a long list of countries. I don't know what the rules were in 1981"

convieniant of you to leave out the first sentence.
Wil B. Aug 9, 2009, 8:59pm EDT
"convieniant of you to leave out the first sentence."

What the rules are now is totally irrelevant, with regards to the Birther's accusation. You said you didn't know what the rules were in 1981. I included a link to information, and evidence to back up that information, explaining what the rules were in 1981.
Col. George W. Aug 9, 2009, 10:17pm EDT
I read that Wil but in your usual mode I dismissed it a heresay just as you usually do.
Wil B. Aug 10, 2009, 5:16am EDT
Oh well. You can lead a horse to water...
Christos G. Aug 9, 2009, 12:49pm EDT
Actually I have to secon Wil. Pakistan was not on the "no travel" list. Google it, and other than "birther sites", there is consensus that it was not.

To me this issue is a waste of time although I don't agree with Obama on 70% of the issues. However I would like to see this "natural born" as it relates to the presidency be clarified because we have people of different backgrounds being born in different lands more often than not.
Col. George W. Aug 9, 2009, 1:35pm EDT
I'll tell you the same as I told Wil. Read the comments. We settled that. Pakistan was on a Warning List not a No Travel List.
Col. George W. Aug 9, 2009, 10:18pm EDT
Christos, I agree the term needs to be clarified.
Joyce ("Site Cheshire Kitteh") L. Aug 9, 2009, 9:23pm EDT
Instigators, hate mongers and bigots. Sunday family picnic on Gather where it never rains but it pours.
Col. George W. Aug 9, 2009, 10:19pm EDT
Fun isn't it.
Chuck L. Aug 10, 2009, 6:13am EDT
The "birther" nonsense is not motivated by racism?!?

"...a new opinion poll released last week finds that the belief that the president is not a native-born U.S. citizen is largely confined to conservative whites -- the Republican Party's core voter base -- and most heavily concentrated in the South."
Col. George W. Aug 10, 2009, 11:28am EDT
Chuck that is not necessarily race at all. Race was not the quesion in the poll. It was about his birth not his race. There is a difference between "native-born" and "natural-born". Is that a typo of is that what the poll said?
River Walker Sep 7, 2009, 3:55pm EDT
the issue isn't wether the topic is race or citizenship.

the issue is MOTIVATION.

do you *REALLY* think that half of these nonsense theorys would be fielded if someone with the same views, ideas, ect, who was white as mccain would have won?

not a chance.
Col. George W. Sep 7, 2009, 7:11pm EDT
Yes I do. Might not be the same people but the citizenship would be questioned.
Where did he get the money to make a world tour?
Why did he travel to Pakistan anyway?
He is supposed to have come from a family of modest means.
He was supposed to be in school at that time, not traveling all over the world.

the DNC//ACORN (and those who have stolen money from the organization)///and Nancy Pelosi.......

Heck Bill Clinton too........he spent more time in Texas getting Dems elected and in the Soviet Union than in college......lets talk about these very expensive pass/fail schools where you need not go to school to get a degree.....


¿ and there's proof Obama went to scholl now????, last I seen there is no real proof of this either.....
Col. George W. Aug 10, 2009, 11:24am EDT
I believe Randee is off in never-never land somewhere.
Chuck L. Aug 10, 2009, 11:35am EDT
Randee appears to be just about as bright as th' Luvly Laura's pet fern.

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