SO MUCH FOR THE FIRST AMENDMENT

Comrade, we are seeing the demise of our country. The current administration, congress and senate have no regard for the law of the land.

I get a "The address is not valid" on your link.

if you copy and paste the visible address it will work

Being required to have a permit is not infringement on freedom of speech.
I've seen videos and incidents like that before. its silly that people who feel so strongly about an opinion to spend a day or whatever demonstrating, can't bother to go get a permit, or license or whatever is required.
such things are legitimate requirements. not being allowed to yell fire in a crowded theater is not infringement of free speech either.

Funny I don't see anything in the first amendment about permits. It fact is says the opposite.

Getting a permit has nothing to do with surpressing freedom of speech.

It doesnt detail on the permit what you are allowed to say or not say.

freedom of speech does not mean you can say whatever you want whenever you want with no consequences.
it does not say that there cannot be regulation on gathering a bunch of people in an open location.

if someone wanted to protest oil companys or something by protesting in the middle of a major street or intersection or something, without making arrangements, would you support that? or would that be unreasonable?
even though it would be perfectly acceptable if they were to make arrangements like parades do...

the issue is that they didn't have a permit. it wasn't about what they were saying, it was about not going through the bureaucratic hoops that were required for the use of that location.

River Walker, you have already submitted your freedom to tyranny. We have nothing to discuss, because you have already surrendered your God given rights to the government.

But, for the record, if the government can require me to get a permit and demonstrate in a certain place, they can decide on a permit fee that I can't afford and decide that the demonstration should be 10 miles from the event I am protesting.

If the government can decide what I can say and not say, then I no longer have freedom of speech. I have censored speech.

"Yelling "fire" in a crowded theater is one of the narrow rulings of the Supreme Court in the interest of public safety. That is a lot different than a police officer or bureaucrat deciding what you can say and where you can say it.

sorry thats bull.
its not a matter of submitting freedom, its accepting a reasonable modern degree of having to arrange for the use of an area.

as far as I can tell looking online, your issue regarding a fee or location, at least in this case, is a strawman. as far as I can tell there is *absolutely* no excuse for the people in that video to not have obtained a permit.

if two groups intend to have a demonstration in an area and theres no organization (in the form of stuff like permits) who gets to? who is justly removed and who is not, if they cannot both be there? if one gets there first is the other just SOL? these are reasonable issues that for a peaceful situation for everyone, MUST be addressed somehow.

there is not nearly the difference you think there is between yelling fire in a theater and needing to make arrangements for a protest!

if in that video, or any like it I've seen, they argued that there was an unreasonable fee, or that the permit they would have been given would have required them to be unreasnably displaced, or something, then fine.
but thats not the case. not in one of these incidents I've heard about. its always the people being too lazy, irresponsible, incompetent or foolish to simply do the relatively minor legwork to get a permit or whatever.

can you NOT see that there are completely legitimate reasons why it could be important to have authorities informed about a demonstration? at very least, to be aware or arrange for something with parking, traffic, counter-demonstrations, or things that are common to EVERY large gathering of people?

From looking at the video it was not a large group. there were maybe a dozedn people. The permit thing was just a farce to get those nasty Constitutionalist off the street.

why didn't they have a permit? why is a permit SUCH a problem? you admit that there is a need in some situations to have official notification of authorities and such of such gatherings. is it not in everyone's best interest to NOT define between a group of 15 people and a group of 50?

the bottom line is that the law says to demonstrate in that location requires a permit.
the permit itself is NOT a hinderance of free speech, it is a reasonable method of organizing legitimately neccesary notifications and scheduling.
it not being a huge group, is quite irrelevant.

So therefore in order for You as an individual to go to DC and protest something you have to have a permit.

if I were to do so in a way that would use a public space, possibly attract attention or be in conflict with other events, it would only be fair.

what if I as an individual plan to go protest something without a permit, and another group also wants to protest at that location? if only some, or only huge groups need a permit.... how would that conflict be managed?

I didnt look at your link.

The first amendment refers to government and a person or group of people and making laws against/for those individuals/groups.

As for this being the begining of the end for our country. Get a grip folks. If some form of healthcare passes and I have no doubt it will.

Becoming MORE socialized isnt going to cause the immediate imminent demise of anyone.

Nicely said.

Being Socalized does affect the Republic. We are after all supposed to be a Republic.

We are also socialized Colonel.

Thanks Jennifer.

Lori, if you did not watch the video how do you conclude they did not have a permit?

No the first amendment does not refer to groups at all it refers to the people. The requirement for a permit is infringement. I do agree that there has to be some kind of scheduling though. The park department needs to have some idea of how many people will be there. Therefore I have mixed feelings about the permit business. That video looked to me as though there were about a dozen people. I also had the impression they did have a permit.

Colonel I am not saying they did or didnt have a permit.

I am saying that getting a permit doesnt deny your first amendment rights.

wait,... let me get this straight.
you recognize that logistically there needs to be SOME sort of scheduling and notification, right?
I mean "I do agree that there has to be some kind of scheduling though. The park department needs to have some idea of how many people will be there."
sounds like a recognition that logistically for safety and such some sort of official documentation regarding the planned activity is needed.

.... what do you think a permit is?

did YOU watch the video? they clearly did NOT have a permit. the officer... hell I think it was BOTH officers asked for their permit or number or whatever. if he had it, he refused to give it to them (which makes it as good as non-existent. he pointed out some other protest and asked if THEY had a permit, and the officer confirmed that they did, and that he DID verify that they had one.

needing a permit is simply needing the official-ness that you just said you agreed was needed! the permit is the form of officialness for scheduling and notification in question.

having to have a permit to use a space is NOT infringement!

Lori, what is the heck is the definition of socalized?

I agree with River and I don't think the attention Global Warming is receiving is hype. There is some legitimate concern there.

Point them out Jennifer. It is all hype. If the globe is warming I haven't noticed since we are having the coldest summer in 10 years. There are as many scientists who claim at best it is a natural thing. Mankind has nothing to do with it. Weather does its own thing and so does the climate.

Jennifer, we are not opposing your right to say whatever you want in support of global warming or climate change, or whatever it is called today.

We are asserting our right to also speak our minds on the subject, as guaranteed by the First Amendment.

Weren't people arrested for protesting at the Republican convention?

bush regularly kept protesters out of campaign rallies and other events. Here's a news story about just one of his rallies.

"Woe betide any of those who pierce the bubble of the George W. Bush campaign, or the equally fortified bubbles of U.S. Vice-President Dick Cheney or First Lady Laura Bush.

Those who have tried to heckle or loudly protest ruling Republican party members have been dragged from events by their hair or hammerlocked to the ground by zealous supporters. Others face court appearances for their efforts during the runup to the Nov. 2 election.

Some run into trouble before they even get to the door in events from battleground state to battleground state, where admission is strictly limited to loyal Republicans and movements are restricted once inside the building or in the cordoned-off areas of outdoor events.

One high school student from Minnesota delighted listeners on National Public Radio explaining how he was barred entry to a Bush rally because the Secret Service had identified him as having volunteered for the Democrats.

Six men from Lancaster, Pa., were charged with disorderly conduct during a Bush visit to a local elementary school after they stripped to their skivvies and began to re-enact the human pyramid photo from the Abu Ghraib prison scandal for the the president's bus.

Perry Patterson, a 54-year-old Oregon woman, faces criminal trespass charges after she said she responded to a "primal need" to challenge Cheney at a rally when the vice-president said his administration had made the world a safer place.

A New Jersey mother, Sue Niederer, was arrested after she disrupted a Laura Bush rally in that state with a T-shirt accusing George W. Bush of killing her son, Seth, who died in Iraq last February. (She is also under investigation by the Secret Service for making threats against Bush in an online interview).

At a July 4 Bush rally in Charleston, W. Va., Nicole and Jeff Rank were handcuffed and removed from the event and subsequently arrested after wearing anti-Bush T-shirts.

Nicole Rank's shirt had the words "Love America, Hate Bush" on the back and Jeff Rank's said "Regime Change Starts at Home."

On this morning, Bush's 37th campaign stop in the crucial battleground state, the Secret Service and local police huddle in the passageway joining a hotel and the convention centre, trying to get ground rules set.

"If someone gets up and shouts `Stop the War' move toward him," an agent says before he spots an interloper and lowers his voice.

Reporters are kept in a pen and if they wander to speak to those in attendance, they too, get a visit from the Secret Service and a reminder to return to the pen.

On this morning, the bubble remains pristine.

The faithful here hold blue tickets for general seating and gold seats for those who get to sit closer to the president. They, and those in attendance later in the day at a Latrobe, Pa., rally, get the Bush stump speech, although it is delivered in two distinctly different venues."

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0925-24.htm

Nancy, if they were peacefully demonstrating and the GOP stopped them, it was wrong. It was wrong when the Chicago police, under orders from a Democrat city administration, beat and arrested demonstrators at the Democrat convention in Chicago in the 60's.

It doesn't make any difference which party, state, city, etc. is suppressing speech or peaceful demonstrations because they are taking away rights guaranteed by the First Amendment to the Constitution.

quote "most of which are lies or blown way out of porportion to get a favorable opinion " Geogre, this describes most of the crap you put on here, sounds like your complaining about your own self!

I've never knowinly told a lie about those things Dexter. It' s just that the truth is not what people want to hear so they call it a lie.

Dexter, I see you are still insulting people instead of discussing the issue.

Don't you have any ideas, or are you just mad at the world.

Let us know what you think about free speech.

I have come to the conclusion anyone can march, protest, publish, demonstrate about anything except the Constitution of the United States. That has been true for a number of years.

I read about a reporter on line who was covering the protest at the Republican convention. The police led the protesters to their “designated” protest area which was cordoned off and ALL, even the reporter, were arrested.

Where was the first amendment then?

Rude, the same place it was when Mayor Daly's police beat the demonstrators at the Chicago Democrat Convention in the 60"s.

Trashed.

We shouldn't accept a violation of our constitutional rights from any party or any one.

George I dont doubt you think youa re telling the truth.. but you go to great lengths to explain everything from only one point of view. And you collect very biased and missleading information. Even your comments about the constitution or biased.. so you are not a good judge of the truth.. nor a communicator of truth. You demonstrate that you main agenda is convincing people of crap that you want them to believe in and you dont have an open enough mind to realize when your wrong.. and I Imagine your macho ego wouldnt let you admit it if you did figure it out.... Georga you have turned out to be exactly what you think you hate.....

I suppose my articles (three of them) about OBAMA CARE are false and misleading too Dexter? Except for my comments which are seperated with a **** every word is taken directly from HR 3200. Want to call that a lie? Knock yourself out.

Dexter, we would still like to know what you think about the First Amendment.

That is what this discussion is about.

George, HR3200 is not the final product... there ar emany other proposals on the table.. if the what would come out of commitie after teh Sentate aproved ITS bill would be totally different. But you never mention that or the other ideas that would be put into the final product or what would be taken out.. THERE IS NO ACTUAL BILL YET.... and all of your post act like there was.

Randy, George is the perfect example with reguards to the 1st amendment being missued, in order fo rthe !st to be effective ALL parties must have Equal exposure for their ideas.... Thats why there should be equal time for the other side for Propagandist like Faux new, Rush limpills and why there should be break ups of publishing and news behemouths like Murdocks.

When HB3200 comes out of committee do you think for one second that Pelosi will give anyone including the members of the House a chance to actually read it? It will be up for a vote within hours if not minutes. That's her MO.

Your wrong Col. Mustard, but, the doesnt have the final say.... it has a long way to go from there and will probably go to commitie after the Senate gets thru with it. Have you ever actually followed legislation all the way thru?

Hang in there with the good fight, George, while you still have a shred of your mind left.

(I am pro pronography.)

me too Sandy

Sandy, I don't even own a pornograph.

His other article is about the birthers, but he feigns his disbelief in it. Why the hell publish something you don't believe in? Well, he either does believe in it, and is therefor a nut case, or he's willing to spread the lies for Gather points. Same here, I imagine. Colonel, having a permit has been a requirement for as long as I can remember. You don't remember the Democratic Convention of 68, Yippies, and Chicago? I'll bet you were cheering their first amendment rights on then, too, lol. Ludicrous chit, from an increasingly unworthy of being read article writer.

Ron, I remember and I was cheering their first amendment rights.

Freedom doesn't belong to any political party or administration, and no one has the right to violate our constitutional rights.

Violations happen, as they did in Chicago, but they can't be accepted and must be fought. History has judged Mayor Daly harshly for his actions.

The fact that the Yippies had no permit, and were in violation of the law was never in question in Chicago, Randy. The harsh, unnecessarily violent response of the police to that violation is what has garnered history's judgment of the mayor, not that he was in the wrong to uphold the law.

What? Ron you have never brought up a subject for discussion?

Yeah, just not based on spreading misinformation and paranoia. I generally at least believe what I write about, anyway.

Copnversations with you must be dull

What was done to the people in the Campaign for Liberty (Ron Paul supporters) during the last election cycle by the Republican Party helped get Obama elected. They essentually stopped their voice at every turn.

The Tin hat crowd she no be given legitimazation by the press.. they are all wing nuts!

The trouble is Dexter we are right. It IS time to return to the Constitution.

You can "return" to "your" constitution George, because nobody has ever been there before.

Dexter if you don't like the Constitution there are other countries.

If no one has ever been there maybe we should give it a try. Nothing else is working.

I was not paying much attention to politics back in 68 but I remember the shock when the news about the riots got out.

I bet you do remember the bad things dont ya GEorge, like how blacks were so 'Unrulely" etc... you also remember all those stereo types and I am sure you still preserve a few..

Too bad we wont live long enough to see whites adn the smallest minority.. but that day will come (and may God bless that day) maybe then the minorites struggle for equality may be reach.

I remember with fondness the Wrights. I was was with them until I was nine and they treated me like their son. I had to run away when White men came to the house and wanted to put me in an orphan's home because my folks, the Wrights, were Black.

Well you must be an oreo then cause you sure dont think like a minorty acording to your posts

I have to rephrase that George.. because you do think like a minority.. the narrow minded tin hat crowd minority... you just post like an angree white man.

You damn right I'm angry. I went to work to serve the United States and while I was doing that someone stole it. I didn't serve to protect the United Socialist States of America.

Dexter, I'm as much Honkey as you. I was left on the Wright's pourch when I was a kid. That happened a lot during the Depression.

Yeah, well, you just misunderstand who stole it. It wasn't liberals, my friend, it was your corporate allies.

I know who stole it Ron. It was the One Worlders that want to make the US a part of a One World Government. Bush, Obama and all the professional politicians are all in lock step to that end.