Gather Etiquette: Please Don’t Litter

Oh, thank you for posting this! Generic Comment Spam drives me NUTS!

Thank you; I am very glad yopu posted this Maryanne.

Good points

Darn it, now I can't generic comment you.
Oh well...generic comment

Thanks. (actually I just delete generic comments usually off my stuff to keep conversations going..now don't come over unless your ready for shocking behaivor..lol)

I'm glad you posted this, but is there anything we can do about comment spammers, besides delete the comment when they show up on our articles? Some people enjoy the spamming on their articles because it gives them points. It's the only reason they are here... not for real conversation.

thanks

I totally understand what you are saying and I am sure that you are going to get pros and cons on this subject. But one thing that I wanted to add is that some of these comment groups get you involved with new people that you may have overlooked on Gather.

I have made many new friends from these groups and also learned about some very good photographers and writers through them. I hope that the above statements doesn't mean that gather will close down these groups in the future, because some people are calling it spam. I would also like gather to know that the people that frequent these groups are great people. They are not the ones that cause all the gather drama and are fighting with one another. I think that gather should address all the name calling and rude people rather than the ones trying to support each other.

My statements are with all due respect to MaryAnne and gather. But, there are other more harassing things going on here that need to be addressed also. Thanks for listening to my opinion.

I get annoyed by the drive-by cut 'n pastes, but I guess I never really equated them to "litter" before. Interesting way to describe it!

I totally agree with carol b

Thanks MaryAnne. I think we all need reminders like this now and then.

I agree with what Carol B has said, and there aer groups out there that if you don't mind the generic spam comment that you can post to, so what no big deal it happens, I've done it myself, but even so I've also left posts that describe my thoughts and feelings, and those are the ones I get slammed for.......so, when it comes down to it, I do a mix of both.

But what Carol B says is true, I've got a group of trolls and stalkers that have done nothing but harass me since i've joined, and I've exercised my rights to moderate and delete and these certain people love to start posts about me, and name names. But yet Gather has said its ok for them to harass and name names but yet they turn around and give other people grief about it? That's where there needs to be change....
Gather needs to become consistant.
mooch

Thanks for your comments and questions. I look forward to answering your questions and concerns on this topic here.

Debra asks
is there anything we can do about comment spammers, besides delete the comment when they show up on our articles? Some people enjoy the spamming on their articles because it gives them points. It's the only reason they are here... not for real conversation.

Thanks for the question, Debra. Members have a couple options. They can simply remove the comment, so it does not interrupt the discussion in the comment thread. They can ignore the comment. They can respectfully let the commenter know that they are having a real conversation and spam comments are not appreciated. If a comment spam pattern is ongoing, they can send a message to the Support Team through the Contact Member Support form and we will address the situation privately and directly with the comment spammer.

Carol...

You make a good point also. By leaving a comment, any comment, the commenter is helping to spread the word about a post/pic/video/profile/etc. Since the comment will most likely show up on the pages of the commenter's friends, they could be leading others to a virtual goldmine of interesting items. Gather is not just about conversation, but also about networking.

The harassing, demeaning comments and posts are far more "negative" and far more damaging. That issue that should be seriously addressed.

Thanks for posting this..haha

this needed to be posted.
I appreciate they you will help us with these spammers.
The "spamming" groups have almost taken over.

Good to see this, MaryAnne. This point: "And any member caught up in group comment assignments is really missing out on more meaningful conversations." is an especially sad aspect of this, imo. I have connections I used to feel close to caught up in groups like this, who I rarely, or never, see in other types of conversations, now. It's like they're not really here, and I miss them.

Carol B comments
But one thing that I wanted to add is that some of these comment groups get you involved with new people that you may have overlooked on Gather.

I have made many new friends from these groups and also learned about some very good photographers and writers through them. I hope that the above statements doesn't mean that gather will close down these groups in the future, because some people are calling it spam. I would also like gather to know that the people that frequent these groups are great people. They are not the ones that cause all the gather drama and are fighting with one another. I think that gather should address all the name calling and rude people rather than the ones trying to support each other.

My statements are with all due respect to MaryAnne and gather. But, there are other more harassing things going on here that need to be addressed also. Thanks for listening to my opinion.

Thanks for your input on this topic Carol! Meeting new friends is a lot of what Gather is all about. We are not planning on closing groups whose focus is points. Rather, we are reminding members that you get to know each other better when you share something real about yourself, rather than share a generic comment that does not further a conversation.

There are other topics that will be addressed in future posts. Because we see so many comments around the site that appear to be an effort to game the point system, we need to address this topic.

If a comment spam pattern is ongoing, they can send a message to the Support Team through the Contact Member Support form and we will address the situation privately and directly with the comment spammer.

That would address the groups designed specifically for comment spamming to gain points. Can you put a stop to those groups in they're reported? I think some people who join those groups don't understand that what they're doing is unwelcome by most of us.

"Can you put a stop to those groups IF they're reported?" (comment editor would be a nice tool to have)

Unfortunately, short of closing such groups and deleting the accounts of the worst spammers, this is a problem that is going to continue to plague the site.

Also, another issue is that some members insist on spamming people with connection requests. They simply won't take "no" for an answer.

Mary, Mooch and Tammy,

Thanks for your feedback. We really appreciate hearing your points of view. There are a number of important topics that will be discussed in this series over the weeks ahead. Today, we wanted to raise the growing concern we have with comment spamming, because it is a real concern we have.

Tammy, you raise an important point about what we call the "cascading effect". When someone who follows you, sees you comment on another person's content they may be drawn to view the content also. However, a comment that shares more depth than a copy and paste comment will likely draw more viewers to that content.

So let me get this straight. If you tell someone that is a "Great picture" that is spamming now? Interesting considering I actually mean it when I say it. So what am I supposed to say now?" I think your picture is great but I can't say that because it is considered spam" It that case I guess I won't comment at all.

We are not planning on closing groups whose focus is points. Rather, we are reminding members that you get to know each other better when you share something real about yourself, rather than share a generic comment that does not further a conversation.

Chris, telling someone you think their content is great is a nice thing to say. Leaving that comment over and over again around the site diminishes the value of that comment. It is the pattern of behavior we are concerned about, not the one-off genuine "Great Pic" comment.

So let me get this straight. If you tell someone that is a "Great picture" that is spamming now?

No Chris, it's spamming if you copy paste that same comment more than a few times on every picture you visit.

Really an easy solution is for everyone in the "quota" groups to simply give a unique comment (instead of the usually "PIF", or "HH", or "PN"...) When visiting someone's photo all you have to do is make a one line comment about the actual photo. Like, "She sure is a cutie" or "I really like her dress" or "Wow, the colors of this pic are fabulous." It doesn't take much more thought, just address each post individually. And you can still add in where you are stopping by from, after the unique comment.

Plus, I've read over an over that comments don't mean more points, so why not just not leave a comment if you can't think of something unique to say? I view a lot, but comment on on things that interest me. And, I dropped out of all the comment spam groups because I didn't feel like my content was treated with respect.

Ok MaryAnne. I usually try to come up with a different comment for each picture I visit but sometimes you just run out of things that are unique to say. I don't every just post great picture on every picture I view but I may say it two or three times ( not in a row) if I am looking at picture from different people.

I am relatively new here, but am already suffering from the endless string of "Nice pic" remarks, one following another endlessly...
Call me a bitter old man, but those huge sparkly drawings are the real trash in here. I can't abide them in an adult site.
Thanks for your reminder.

Thanks, MaryAnne...

would it be inappropriate if every time I see the spamming I sent the spammer a link to this article? (not a hundred times to the same spammer... that would be spamming. )

Thanks for stopping by with your comments everyone.

I am so glad to see this. Of course, it is hard to know whether it will reach those doing the spamming, or whether they will care. That said, I do believe that this is a step in the right direction, and that the more that GATHER is proactive on this issue (and others), the better off this site will be in the long run.

MaryAnne, I hope that this is a sign of things to come from Gather.

I am relatively new to Gather but I, personally, sometimes think it is a "great photo" or "lovely picture" and that's what I say.......I never in my wildest dreams considered it to be spam......I really don't think it is because it is exactly what I feel about that particular photo. I try to say something original for each think I comment on but sometimes it is only a word or two but it's "my" word or words........I actually think I am insulted by being told that what I say is spam. I will have to think more on this one........Every person is entitled to their opinion and this is mine on the subject.

Heidi,

Thanks for raising the subject of "comment assignments" that some groups have. This sounds to me like it's all work and no fun - the idea of "having" to leave comments. But this seems to be a practice that some members enjoy.

There are pros and cons to this approach, as some members have offered in above comments. You do get to meet more members. Just be real in how you share yourself and your comments.

Thanks for your perspective, Kenn.

Debra asks


would it be inappropriate if every time I see the spamming I sent the spammer a link to this article? (not a hundred times to the same spammer... that would be spamming. )

This would be appropriate, Debra. That's what I'll be doing when I send out reminders to members who are comment spamming.

Thanks for your input, Jane.

This is the start of a series for practices that we see getting out of hand that don't bring value to Gather.

Hi Sandra,

You are absolutely entitled to your opinion. Thank you for sharing it here. And if you compliment another member with the comment of "great picture" or "lovely picture" that's OK. What I am addressing with this post is the growing practice of members who almost exclusively comment with cut and paste comments.

My main concern over pointing people to this article over comment spamming, is the inevitable drama where said spammer leaves an article, complaining about being told how to Gather, and how unfair or judgmental it is for another member to tell them how to do it. Which, of course, will lead to a round of "Oh! How dare they!" and "They have no right!" and "So sorry this happened to you!" comments.

MaryAnne, that IS good news! I have nearly stopped coming to Gather because of this issue, among others. Actually, I recently started adding a note to my posts: Please, no generic comments.

Hi Heather, there may well be some reactions as you describe.

This reminder is not meant to unfairly limit how member's can express themselves. However, from time to time we all need a friendly reminder of the community guidelines and policies.

I've worked with thousands of members and I have confidence that once reminded most members want Gather to be a site where there's a balance of fun and thoughtful content.

I agree fully! Lately, there have been several "S/he's attacking me!" posts when members have thoughtfully pointed out that posting copyright protected material is not always allowed, though.

Jane,
I'm glad you saw this post and I hope you continue to be an active Gather member for a long time!

Heather,

Lately there have been a lot of conversations with concerns about personal attacks. That's another topic which I'll address in a future post.

I agree with Heather's comment about about pointing people to the article. I also think it is inappropriate for another member to do that. It like kids tattling . I totally understand the need but it should come from Gather staff.

Thank you for addressing this. "Nice" or "TY" or "Come view my content." is quite annoying. I hope it slows down after your post.

Chris,

Please feel free to raise comment spamming concerns directly with the Support team by using the Contact Member Support form.

Members don't need to put themselves in the middle of this conversation with another member if it makes you uncomfortable in any way. Members are welcome to point others to this post or any site policies if they are comfortable doing so and if it is done it a civil manner.

I find this very interesting and I am a spammer each time I comment on a photo in my group with a cut and paste thanks for posting this to.....with the link?

If that is spam, and I can see why it might be thought of that way I will have no problem stopping that. Having so many to do that to on a daily basis is a chore but one I decided to take on to let my group member know I actually looked at their photo/article and accepted it to the group. It also lets NEW Gather People know about the group without searching through thousands of groups to find mine.

On the other hand how can cut and paste (generic) be any more troubling to Gather than the THOUSANDS OF Internet photos posted to Gather (real litter), giving points to people who don't deserve the points because they are stealing others work, and the commenter is blissfully commenting on stolen photos with a generic "great pic "which gives the thief even more undeserved points?

Just watch the recent photos and PLEASE notice how many internet photos are posted to New Accounts because the new person signing up doesn't bother to read the TOS or if they do they just don't care.

My opinion but another litter thought.

Thanks for prodding out my dormant yawn. Thanks.

Hi Digital Diva,

Thanks for stopping by and adding your perspective. This post is the first in a series that will address a number of different topics. Each topic will have it's own post to give it the exposure it deserves.

I personally find this topic problematic, myself!

It's nice to see something you publish is being seen. I know there are "views" to see now, but it's nice to see your friends have been visiting... The only way to know this is if they leave a comment.

I have sat here for 3+ hours before just checking out someone's photos. I'm sorry, but when you've looked at 200+ photos, well sometimes there's just not much to say beyond, "Great pic", "Great shot" etc.

I find it dull posting those kind of comments though, so I have decided to just not leave a comment unless I actually had something to say about it... but at the same time, it's sad that my friends don't see that I've been enjoying their stuff.

Oh well.

Hi Melanie,

It is nice to hear from members about your content. There's no doubt about that. It's especially nice when you are new and looking to make connections with others.

The point I'm reminding members about with this post is that a cut and paste comment loses its meaning very quickly when it is repeatedly left across the site. It's better to leave fewer comments with some significance than many that are cut and pasted.

MaryAnne:

What about groups that are specifically geared towards encouraging members to leave generic comments/graphic comments? There is one group that states in its description that members are encouraged to leave these types of comments.

*Hoots, hollers, jumps up and down and whistles* A big 'YAY!!" from me on this and future topics to be discussed. I'm so glad Gather is stepping up to alleviate some 'problems'. Maybe now Gather can start getting back on track to being a site with more substance...and fun...for all to enjoy....and attracting many more new members.

Great question Heather!

Groups that are focused on points are permitted. However, groups that encourage members to leave copy and paste spam comments will be reminded that spam is not permitted.

This post will be used as a reference so members who are not able to join this conversation today, can see the great conversation we've had here on this topic. And they are encouraged to ask any questions they have either here, or on the Daily Help Forum posts at the Help Desk Group - help.gather.com.

Very well said, some do go pretty far with the cut and paste comments

OK here's my question... What happens if I'm accused of cut&paste spamming and I haven't been just because I use the same words for a couple of posts or so? Makes me almost afraid to comment espeically when there are people out there who so enjoy looking to the slightest little infraction that could just be a harmless little mistake.

MaryAnne, I have sent you a link to the group I am talking about in your Gather Mail :)

Nancy *, if people are going to be like that then the burden of proof is ALL on them !!!

I agree that comment spamming should be stopped.
But, sometimes life happens and you have over 400 friends..
There is no way that you'll be able to come up with something fresh to say for everyone of them. And, there's sometimes, like this week, that I got sick.
And, when you're ill, you have so many messages piled up..
It is difficult to give every person a unique or great comment.
Sometimes, a cut and paste on a few posts is all you have time or strength for..
Or you can just view and not comment at all.
And, that doesn't sit well with me.
I try to comment on the messages I receive.
With groups, I think that thanking a member for posting to your is both polite and should be encouraged.

What? I was supposed to visit ALL my friends ? Ooops ...

I do agree with Angela A. that pasted group "comments" and individual comments are always seen differently.

Thanks for asking your question, Nancy!

Gather's intent is not to catch members doing something wrong. Our intent is to elevate the level of conversation happening on Gather because there's a lot of spam commenting going on. We are trying to remind members that there's a better, more authentic way to comment.

Any reports to the Support team, of any kind, are looked into by Gather staff before the situation is addressed with a member. If there is a clear pattern of comment spam, we'll address that situation with the member. If there isn't, then there is nothing to address with the member.

Just because something is reported to the Support team doesn't mean the member who was reported has done something wrong. Each case is reviewed and a determination is made by staff, not other members.

I hope my response puts your mind to rest that you can be yourself. You don't have to worry about mistakes (we all make them). The concern we have is to stop the pattern of abusive cut and pastes.

Angela,

I can appreciate your concerns. However, no matter how many friends a member has, comments should be real.

Members are not expected or required to comment on all the activities of their friends. Comment when you can and feel free to let them know you've really enjoyed their recent activity in general. Rather than trying to comment on each item. Maybe that will help?

Although I appreciate any and all comments made to me on my posts, I have noticed a lot of comment spamming of late.

Thanks MaryAnne!

I may appreciate any and all posts, but a comment that tells me what you like or dislike, how it made you feel, or just the images it gives you, helps me with my writing. It is discussion that helps us learn and grow.

I am sorry for you. Perhaps a hobby is in store?

I'm tickled to see this and a potential series of "G" house cleaning posts to come.

It does start to feel like the never ending strip mall malaise when little or no thought is put into comments. Kinda cheap and guaranteed to fall apart, thereby in need of proper disposal. Litter-esque. I felt your points were nicely laid out Mary Anne. Thank You.

I think it really does have to do with numbers. I've learned that keeping connections and groups to a minimum, occasionally adding new ones, via the delight of exploring about is where it's at.

Though I far prefer only commenting on what's of interest or of inherent value to an effort that I'm part of, operating a group requires tremendous versatility and I'm sure resorting to catch phrases is occasionally necessary. But I'd think that's what you'd want most to avoid.

It keeps this cyber-experience real and of value to those putting effort into their contributions.

What an odd and obtuse bird sits above this place. };>) I need to get my dearest observation manual out for identification.

It's all bright and shiny in theory, but the results of putting yourself out there with "real” comments often has less than conversation inducing results.

Gather has become a click filled, point grubbing, virtual bloodbath...

Rather than just reminding members of the rules, Gather should start enforcing them up to and including account termination for repeat offenders. I would hope that ALL members are held to the same standard. Gather staff in my personal opinion can't always seem to control an impulse towards favoritism, which is bad business.

I don't see how "Thanks for sharing" or "Great pic" comments have anywhere near the negative effect to the site overall as the insane amount of posting infractions.

How many "articles" does Gather need that include all of four words?

Ex: "I won 2 swagbucks!"

If that isn't spamming for the sole intention of gaining points I can't imagine what is.

I've often wondered if you (Gather.com) have a keyword/phrase filter in place with an ignore command for posts such as the above example. If not, you should, it only makes sense. Those types of “articles” would disappear pretty quickly if people knew that such posts were not gaining them points. It would also save on server side costs such as bandwidth, storage, etc... Not to mention the handy side effect of less crap to wade through in order to find something interesting to read.

But I digress...

I'm sure posting concerns will be addressed in a future article.

Back to comments!

Gather (staff) should focus more on self-promoting (especially to outside sources), rather than generic comments. Generic comments may be annoying but they do let people know that someone “heard” them.
An important part of any online community is personal validation. People post for points but they are also seeking that ever important and often elusive sense of outside validation. Even a generic, cut and paste comment is enough for many people to feel as though they touched someone or connected to another human being on some level. Any level. That's important.

It's especially important for a community like Gather. It would be a long comment indeed if I were to tell you why. Besides, I'm sure you (Gather staff) already know why, so I'm going to skip the lecture on member “profiling” and in depth psychological analysis. That was a self-important mouthful wasn't it? geesh.

Basically the comments are the nuts and bolts of human interaction on the site and should be allowed the freedom to manifest in whatever form they may take, otherwise the entire system will collapse. It's human nature, you can't fight it. Gather will have to find ways to work with it.

I guess I believe Gather should focus it's energy and resources on improving the content of the site rather than member reaction to said content. Focusing on the content will have a much higher payoff in the long run than worrying about comments.

I'm done now. Aren't you glad? :)

yaya

Ugg.. In reading my own comment, I sound pompous. That is not my intention.

Please forgive any edge of pompousness or other unpleasant characteristic in my comment. I don't always come off very well in written form. :)

I am laughing so hard right now -- thanks for posting this! It's awesome. I love it.

The part I love the most is that people are actually upset by this or are questioning exactly what is considered comment spam. If you have to question it, then you know it's not allowed. It's the same thing my kids do when they're reaching for something they shouldn't touch but stare at me the entire time just waiting for me to tell them 'no'.

If people had just taken the time to READ the Guidelines & Terms of Service from the very beginning (you know, the ones you had to agree to in order to become a member?) then this post never would have been published.

See but it's odd because recently one of the biggest Comment spammers was given their own chats with bonus points. If Gather is going to stand behind people who do this then it is sending the wrong message.

Ghostly has an excellent point, I almost forgot about that (since finally King Spammer has finally realized I have no desire to befriend him).

Maybe someone from Gather can explain why a person such as the aforementioned was rewarded after being one of the worst comment spammers on here.

Yes, thank you Ghostly & Heather! I'm sure almost all of us thought of good 'ol Good Morning Gather Man when we saw this post. I don't get it either but hopefully someone from Gather will pop in and explain that one to us.

I've just come back to my desk to see that some great discussion has continued on this topic. Thanks everyone for weighing in with your thoughts.

Kerry, I appreciate your response, especially the point you make about how validation is such a basic human need. You raise some good topics for future discussions as well.

Ghostly and Heather speak true Kemosabe. It all comes down to Gather staff selectively interpreting and applying the TOS.

If Gather wants things to change, they (staff) will have to start with their own behavior.

I will be glad when the dirty bandaids come off and the everything is clean and pretty again. :)

OOh, I don't like dirty bandaids one bit.

go Ghostly! He's not even leaving his thanks for visiting comments anymore so now we don't even know if he looks at our stuff...

I have read several times that as a group owner it's ok by the TOS to comment thanks for posting to my group comments.

On the other hand, I am doing 3 groups right now where there is a list of who to do each day and we are given graphics to post for comments. Sometimes I do leave a real comment with the graphic, sometimes I don't.
I also joined a group called Graphic and Generic comments only...and I joined because I enjoy putting in the graphic comments....and if someone joins that group and posts their content to that group they are agreeing to accept such comments.

I work on clearing content in my own group, and in doing so I leave the comment about it reaching the 25 comments blah blah However, I try not to leave that comment on posts that are of a serious nature like pray requests and such.

so...here's my opinion.....if you don't like the generic comments then you don't join those groups! And, I too often type in nice photo, nice shot, very pretty etc when looking at photos....however, I do NOT cut and paste it and put whichever on every photo I look at.
Also I am NOT bothered at all by what you are calling generic comments...in fact I love them as I know that person took the time to at least click over to my stuff.
Have I said enough yet?

Ghostly, Heather and Faith - Thanks for stopping by!

The intent of this post is to remind members that comment spam degrades the site. It is not to point out anyone who may have engaged in this in the past.

You raise a valid point that those Gather employee who are more "client" focused and those who are more "member" focused need to make sure that we are all on the same page. That's something we need to work on.

Hi Faith... yaya dirty bandaids are 100% ICK .

::shiver::

This is a great post! Thanks for publishing this Maryanne!

Good points.

I'll have to continue this discussion tomorrow folks! I have an appointment to get to this evening. Hope you all have a good evening!

Maryanne..

I can't help myself
I have to say it

Forget the page...

It would help immensely if you were all reading the same book.
*grin*

yaya

I think I'm more guilty of long comments than brief ones. I tend to only comment on the ones I read and I just can't read that many. I'm sure that some people think I'm selfish because I don't do a huge amount of commenting but I just don't have the time to read that many posts or even look at that many photos so I just do what I can.

I think that there are to many who copy and paste, never take time to read the article, even know what it is about. Perhaps that is why I dont make many points. I see many great articles to read. Plus I have made several friends that are very precious to me. Without gather I would never have met them. ,,,,,I am guilty of saying pretty flower, or nice pic, but I really mean it when I do. If we cant say something nice, we should not say anything at all.

Mary Anne,
I have a question. I am not sure if it was answered or not. As I skimmed through teh comments real quick as I am about to head out the door.

My question :

Is leaving a comment, than unerneath I make another comment saying thank you for posting to such and such group. Is that considered spamming or litter per say?

I do this sometimes but not to all content tha has submit to my groups.

hmmmmnnnn... interesting.

I hate the spamming too. Also, when you post something that is very interesting or a picture you too that is wonderful to show off your skills in photography, others put something stupid by copy and paste a mans head on a womans bunny body. I mean give me a break. I have alot of great shots that I think are wonderful, but when someone does that and they get 62 comments or views and you only get 8 or so. Not right. I mean your here to get comments on things you've done to show off and see if you are good at what you do. I tried something to see if it would work. I posted a goodnight post and only got 3 votes and 17 views, no comments. But when someone else does it, they get 50 or more comments. Doesnt make sense. I'm just going to stick to photography, no writting posts anymore. Nosense in writing when they don't read.

Yea!!!!!! Thank you!!!!! I have always had posted in my by-line, "No need to comment in return" or something along those lines! Since joining Gather I have kept true to myself and what I believe is the spirit of the place. Comments should be freely given without expectation of a return comment.

I had begun to wonder if I was the only one that felt that way. Thank you for ensuring that I am not crazy!

I have the same question as MinPin....I have 2 groups. when i read the content I make a specific comment abou the post and then thank them for posting to my group. is the thank you ok or not?

I easily avoid them. Some of them really need the money. I do know a couple of those, but stay away from others.

Awesome. Plain and simple.

thanks for this, it has some real good points, i'm glad someone took the time to point this for those of us who get too caught up in the points aspect.

i have barely any comments on my photos, so I'll take a generic ! lol

Great post MaryAnne, and thank you for clarifying the comment spamming part.