Transcript of Talk to Me: Special Gather CEO Chat on Points (April 2nd, 1 p.m. ET)

Team- thanks again for joining me! I want to remind everyone that today's CEO chat will be focused on the points system only. I will be back in a few days to chat about any other topic you might like, but chat only about points today. Thanks for helping us stay focused!

I don't understand points? How many posts equal one point? Does joining groups or bringing friends in earn points? I once posted a question about points and no one was able to answer.

I use the site MORE because of the points system. Im a stay at home mom and this site is fun for me but I can also earn a little extra for our family! I love the fact that I worked hard and reached the cash option!

I honestly think that the points have slowed down over the past month or so, even though I'm doing the same if not more activity and that is very frustrating! I see members making over $100 each month and $10 a day, HOW?

1) When I first joined and for a good few months afterwards I didn't know what the point system was, or how to use it. I went on merrily reading and clicking, but rarely ever commenting or rating.

When I did find out about the points and free books, I did change the way I gathered. I comment more, connect more and participate on Gather more. So for me it has totally changed the way I see gather. It's no longer just another site that I bookmark and visit casually, Gather is one of my must visit sites everyday.

2) Ever since the addition of the Macy's card, I use the site more. I have a shoe addiction. Gather feeds that addiction. I am an addict and it costs me nothing. :)

3) *Shrug* I connect with people I find interesting and that is all I see or pay attention too.

4) I have no clue. I know that publishing stuff is the quickest way for me to get points so I share myself here.

5) Airline miles sound great, I could always use that. Maybe add more online vendors or the ability to choose the paypal option regardless of making the 3000 points mark every month. I think I contribute quite a bit and most of the time I would like to think it is useful or informative/entertaining to some. But, I always fall short of the 3000.

6) Yes. I'm a shopping addict, remember. I get paid to shop and tell, but I would do it for free too.

I've never redeemed any points but would hate to lose them. If you discontinue them would we be given the opportunity to use them first or would they just be lost?

Regards,
Doyle I <~~~~~

Bad behavior I've seen!

1. People posting 1 -2 word articles, several in a row! Some even say "Hey" and nothing more!

2. People posting the same comment on EVERY article and image they look at - even if the comment doesn't relate to the item they looked at. What's the point in that, to earn points and nothing more!

3. People posting the same exact picture more than one time!

4. People sending mass e-mails every time they post something and asking people to come look!

I wouldn't be on Gather if it weren't for the payment system. It's as simple as that.

Thanks for joining us, Mary Ann! I understand your confusion. One of the reasons for my chat today is to consider how to change/simplify/otherwise modify our points program for the future.

Today, members earn points based on a number of factors. We consider things like how much other members enjoy that member's content (articles, images and video), whether a member is inviting friends and family to Gather, and how much a member uses the site.

Our initial goal was to create a system to reward members for the actual value created here on Gather to drive good behavior over time. Because of that, there isn't a "points per post" calculation: a member who posts something that is never viewed isn't creating lots of value for the community or the company. Someone who posts something that is viewed thousands of times is.

That said, I am not convinced our current system is achieving that goal. That's why I wanted to chat with everyone today and seek your suggestions on how to improve/change the points system. I look forward to you thoughts!

Jessica- Thanks for your thoughts on the rate at which you are earning points. Is that your primary reason for being here on Gather? Thanks too for the suggestion on grocery store cards. I'll pass that on to our team.

I agree with everything Sophie said. I enjoy gather with or without the points, but the points do help.

I don't have time to answer all the questions as my grandkids and I are heading out on vacation in a few minutes. The points system encourage me to stay here. I don't post a lot, rarely play games but I enjoy getting something in return for looking at images and reading more than I would here if there were NO points. I enjoy the cards, I've always gotten Borders' ones, as I use them for gifts. I wish there was an option for a plain Visa card, like BoomerTowne does. Those are great as you can use them wherever you want.

I don't know that I NEED to know how points are awarded. I do know my earnings have slowed down in the last months, which I attributed to all the games here taking away a portion of the points.

The ability to cash out my points periodically IF there is not a Visa reward card would be great. I have over 10,000 points. I have been holding off getting a card after your last chat where you mentioned that there might be a chance to cash out.

If the points system were eliminated, I would be here MUCH less. Not sure about the shopping idea. I don't do a lot of internet shopping.

Bad behavior seen: I see lots of incredibly stupid games that must make a lot of points for the participants. The ones that say, "name a word with an E in it" are a waste of space here as far as I'm concerned.

I do dislike the games "Name a word with the letter M in it" - although I can say that I have participated in them....sometimes mindless content allows a person release stress by not even having to think about it much.....

1) Points certainly influence my behavior here at Gather. I love the site, and the points make me stay here much longer every day.

2) I definitely use the site a lot more than I would without the points.

3) I think everyone here loves the site. Some needs the points a little more and work a little harder, others a little less and the points accumulate slower. I wouldn't say I have experienced any "bad" behavior because of points.

4) I guess points are awarded based on page view and site activity.

5) I am on the cash option, so I don't really have a say in regards to the gift card option. I wouldn't mind being able to redeem for gift cards, even though I am on the cash option.

6) The value-added shopping program sounds great. I would love it, if we could get points for shopping through Amazon. None of the other sites seems to have this. I love to share, so I am sure I would be sharing about some of my online purchases through the program as well.

Thank you for a great site Tom.

Ok, I think I will have to agree with Bridget that mass mailing constantly is bad behavior.

Bridget- Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the points system! I am glad you enjoy the Gather experience (points or no points!), and glad that earning a little something extra is fun too.

Points haven't slowed down in the past couple months. I described a bit of what we look at when awarding points in my second comment above. We actually have algorithms for awarding points that follow the guidelines I described above. We tune these all the time in hopes of making them reward productive, community enriching behavior all the time.

One of the reasons for today's chat, however, is our desire to do more than "tune." We want to understand more significant changes you might like to see from the points system.

I would be here points or no points, and when I cash out for gift cards, I generally give the gift cards away. I do see abuses with mindless games and articles but I guess they serve a purpose for those who need the money or the points. I'd like to see a separate area of Gather for those folks who must make their quota or whatever for the month with the non creative content.

Being new here, I'm still feeling my way around. The points I "gather" just seem to be a surprise to me, because I'm not really sure how they are calculated. I've discovered that having a huge friend's list seems to be very important when you publish or your article can get buried very quickly. Most of all, I enjoy reading the humorous writers that make me smile, whether I get points or not.

Yay, starting early! :) I don't have to leave quite yet.

I'll just answer a few Q's -

1 - I like points. 90% of the reason I'm here as much as I am is for the $$.

4 - NO. More visibility = a bad idea. Can you imagine how many people would abuse that? There's enough flagrant 'help me get points' junk out there already. If we all knew for sure how to get points, quality would plummet IMO.

5 - I don't care. I'm on cash, and think that if you want to make cashing out an option for EVERYone, fine, but find a way to reward your biggest contributors. (Eg, those already on the cash program who had to EARN our way into it.) Maybe a high rate of point accrual? Dunno.

6 - No. I do my shopping through Upromise.

1) How have points influenced your personal experience on Gather? Have they changed your behavior (if so, how)? Do they matter a lot to you, a little, or not at all?

I'd be lying if I said they didn't matter to me. I love getting gift cards and am counting on Gather to buy my sister's wedding gift which I couldn't otherwise afford.

That said, I would be here, every day, Gathering, with or without the points. I've made some real friends here and I would never just leave and forget them.

I have been known to publish a silly game that probably adds little to the community in order to get the last few points needed to cash in for a gift card. Even then, I try to make the game original, creative, and actually fun.

" Bad behavior I've seen!

1. People posting 1 -2 word articles, several in a row! Some even say "Hey" and nothing more!

2. People posting the same comment on EVERY article and image they look at - even if the comment doesn't relate to the item they looked at. What's the point in that, to earn points and nothing more!

3. People posting the same exact picture more than one time!

4. People sending mass e-mails every time they post something and asking people to come look! "


I agree with all the above. I am a member since 2005 and I have never exchanged any points for anything. In my opinion, pursuit of points has produced a lot of clutter that obscures the worthwhile content and because of the clutter I have pretty much stopped writing for Gather.

I would gladly exchange the point system for a view counter like they have on utube. It is much more satisfying to know exactly how many people are viewing my stuff.

2) Do you use the site more because of points, about the same, or less?

Perhaps a little more but I have trouble keeping up with the things my favorite connections post. There's only so much time in a day that I can devote to Gather.

Sophie- who knew the secret was shoes! Seriously, though, thanks for the thoughtful responses. I am glad you enjoy the Macy's cards. I'll pass your thoughts on airline miles or the ability to translate points into cash (sent by PayPal) as well.

I am glad that you share more on Gather as a result of the points system. Do you think the content is similar to what you were sharing before? Have your habits changed at all regarding what you publish and/or how often?

Thanks for the feedback, Sophie.

5) What uses for points would you like to see going forward? We have had suggestions like having the ability to redeem points for cash, turn points into donations to charities of a member's choice, redeem points for airline miles, or freedom to buy from other merchants (which matter most to you)? Some people want to buy gas cards with points. One even wanted to pay down his mortgage. What would you like to see us do?

I think people should be happy with what is offered. I don't understand complaining about something that is free. I've been a member at communities where I had to pay for the privilege, like The Motley Fool.

I think the points and cash are a huge benefit of Gather members and if they are taken away there will be so many unhappy people and people will leave becasue of it!

Gather is fun but the extra incentive of points is what many members need! So many people use that cash and gift cards to help with things around the house!

Hey Doyle- Thanks for asking! We make a real effort to give the community up-front notice on any changes on the site. If ever we make significant changes to our points system (or considered discontinuing it), we will give members notice and the opportunity to redeem points before changes were made.

That said, we are are still very early in our analysis right now. We will be asking the community for help in lots of different forms (surveys, 1-on-1 chats, etc) in the coming weeks.

6) If we created a value-added shopping program for Gather members, where you could earn points for shopping online, would you start your shopping here? Would you share what you bought with friends from time-to-time if you earned additional points for doing so?

I hate that sort of thing. Hate it. As an affiliate marketer on the web I get pretty sick of having my commissions stolen by Upromise toolbars and the like. That might actually make me leave Gather.

I don't have time to go into all my reasons right now as a Parents as Teachers representative will be here any minute and I have to get ready. I'll try to make it back though.

1) Points matter to me (still hoping the beer money to grow into a salary), but not enough to compromise my writing integrity. I want to earn my points by putting time and thought into creating and editing what I publish.
2) Without points, I would probably return to private writing groups and other political discussion groups.
3) My experience here has been frustrating by having to wade through what appear to be point-garnering submissions by people who appear to care only about quantity (points or attention) and not quality.
4) I don't know how they are awarded, don't know that I want you to tell us, but would like to know that you reward quality (thought and work involved) more than quantity.
5) I prefer cash
6) Possibly. I need to know more before answering.

Bridget- Thanks for the thoughts on bad behavior. Comment spam is a problem we have seen too (those short comments repeated everywhere on the site). It's ironic, too, because we don't reward members for commenting, so these members are wasting a lot of time and effort. But then, maybe all they had to say was, "Hey, I liked this. Please share more!"

Why aren't members rewarded for commenting?

1) How have points influenced your personal experience on Gather? Have they changed your behavior (if so, how)? Do they matter a lot to you, a little, or not at all?

Some. I probably participate a bit more than I might otherwise.

2) Do you use the site more because of points, about the same, or less?


See 1.

3) How do you think points have influenced the behavior of other members? What good behavior have you seen? What bad behavior have you seen?

I've seen a lot of content that seems to be there only for the purpose of collecting points. It wastes a lot of bandwidth.

4) How do you think points are awarded today? Would you like more visibility into how we award points? How would this change your behavior and the behavior of others on the site?

Judging by my memory of point accumulation it seems like points are awarded for participation. Exactly how they're awarded seems to change quite often. I'm envisioning a fuzzy logic system where different member activities are assigned scores according to values in a data base. One thing I remember hearing from Gather management is that the point pool is proportional to advertising revenue. I'm assuming that ad revenue has been off since the first of the year since my point accumulation rate has decreased dramatically.

5) What uses for points would you like to see going forward? We have had suggestions like having the ability to redeem points for cash, turn points into donations to charities of a member's choice, redeem points for airline miles, or freedom to buy from other merchants (which matter most to you)? Some people want to buy gas cards with points. One even wanted to pay down his mortgage. What would you like to see us do?

I wouldn't mind seeing more merchants. I'd rather there weren't a cash option period.

6) If we created a value-added shopping program for Gather members, where you could earn points for shopping online, would you start your shopping here? Would you share what you bought with friends from time-to-time if you earned additional points for doing so?

No. No. No. No. Did I mention that I think it's a dreadful idea?

Back again Bridget- thanks for calling out repeat posting of content. That would be an annoying habit that I haven't yet seen. I will chat with MaryAnne about it and be sure we keep an eye out. Again, ironically, this kind of behavior is actually more likely to get people to ignore the member in question. That would, in effect, decrease that members' earnings.

1) How have points influenced your personal experience on Gather? Have they changed your behavior (if so, how)? Do they matter a lot to you, a little, or not at all?
A: They provide an incentive to seek out and create valuable content. I like being rewarded for my efforts.

2) Do you use the site more because of points, about the same, or less?
A: More

3) How do you think points have influenced the behavior of other members? What good behavior have you seen? What bad behavior have you seen?
A: Some people Post for the sake of posting, they often provide no content, just links to other sites. Some people post like 20 articles a day, in hopes that their points go up.

4) How do you think points are awarded today? Would you like more visibility into how we award points? How would this change your behavior and the behavior of others on the site?
A: I would like to see a more specific overview of how points are awarded. I.E. What is 10 vote worth compared to a 1. What are the points per reply? If a conversation gets 50 posts, how does that compare to one that gets 5?

5) What uses for points would you like to see going forward? We have had suggestions like having the ability to redeem points for cash, turn points into donations to charities of a member's choice, redeem points for airline miles, or freedom to buy from other merchants (which matter most to you)? Some people want to buy gas cards with points. One even wanted to pay down his mortgage. What would you like to see us do?
A: All of the above are good, especially the cash.

6) If we created a value-added shopping program for Gather members, where you could earn points for shopping online, would you start your shopping here? Would you share what you bought with friends from time-to-time if you earned additional points for doing so?
A: No. This would be a bad change as it would take away from Gathers purpose. You would have so many people spamming the site to market this product, or that online program, the latest stock tips etc. BAD IDEA!!!!

1) Points matter a lot to me /now/. Back when I joined they really didn't matter and I really just enjoyed the community aspect (which I do still enjoy very much), but I'm going to be moving to a new state in just 4 short months, so now I'm really pushing for the points part so that I'll have money to get the little things I might need there.

2) I definitely use the site more now because of the points, which, like I said, is because I'm trying to prepare for the move. Before this point, I hadn't really cared much about them.

3) Points influence some people a lot. Some people really just post random things, articles that don't make sense, pictures that aren't theirs, the db10s just to get points, which tends to be rather annoying. Some people don't mind points and really go in-depth and carry on good conversations and post quality articles.

4) Not exactly sure how points are awarded...lol. I just know it takes a good amount of time to get a decent amount, which is to be expected. I think it would be neat to be able to know how points are awarded because it would really be easier to maintain point goals if one were able to see such. However, this would most likely mean that people are going to do more of whatever earns them more points and less of what does not earn them that many.

5) I definitely like the idea of cash with points, but I think the gift cards are fun, too, because they make great gifts and everything. It would definitely be more convenient to have giftcards for certain megastores (such as Walmart), where a lot of people might do shopping for groceries or clothes or such (and where the prices are quite affordable to begin with).

6) I don't think I'd be doing any shopping online. Personally, I think it sounds like a neat idea, but I haven't got much money and what I do have is being hoarded for college...hehe. So I think any luxury shopping or things of that sort will be put off for several more years.

5) I like the idea of being able to redeem my points for cash, most especially, but getting to redeem them for airline miles and gas cards sound good as well. I already give to various charities on my own, so that's not a big draw for me.

1) I come to Gather and participate by writing articles and commenting on the work of others irregardless of points. Being able to exchange points for gift cards is just a bonus for me. A nice bonus, but not my reason for coming to Gather. Gather is a site where I share my thoughts, feelings, experiences through different forms of writing and it is a site for a little online socializing as well. I have made good friends here, some of whom I am in contact with only at Gather and others with whom I am in contact with beyond Gather.

4) I don't know that I would label people's behavior regarding points as good or bad, but it is clear that some kinds of articles are posted mainly to obtain points. In fact people will write a two line article stating they need a certain amount of points in order to reach their point for the month goal, would people leave comments and help them out? Some of the games seem to be designed for gaining points rather than to present a fun and creative game to the Gather member. As I happen to enjoy playing games from time to time, I wish people would focus more on the creativity of their game. One of the results of article designed merely for the obtaining of points is that the "most discussed" and other data regarding articles are skewed in the direction of the point obtaining articles and not in the direction of a really well written article that stimulated a great discussion. This to me is a drawback of the point system as I would like to find interesting articles and discussions when I click on "most discussed" articles.

4) I have no idea how points are awarded. It would be interesting to know, but as I am not here for the points, I have no burning desire to know. I do think that revealing the exact means by which points are distributed would have the effect of changing the behavior of the members here primarily for the earning of points. I think it would make them even more point-oriented and less creativity-oriented. This I do see as a disadvantage of revealing the mechanism of the point system.

6) I would not want Gather to add on value shopping. I like that it is not a shopping site. I like that it is a site for writing, for posting artwork and photos and videos. I much prefer that Gather focus more on itself as a site to publish one's creative works than on expanding to include a shopping feature. There are countless shopping sites on the web. I really don't need another one. Gather and the features it offers are unique. I would like to see it retain that uniqueness.

Thanks, Tom, for giving us the opportunity to voice our opinions on these questions.

We consider things like how much other members enjoy that member's content (articles, images and video), whether a member is inviting friends and family to Gather, and how much a member uses the site.

Regarding this statement, Tom, when the "highest rated" and "most viewed" and "front" page show copy & paste articles, games, one word/sentence/paragraph "articles" and content with errors in each line, some of us don't have many people we want to invite to see it. I send links to articles I enjoy to people I think might enjoy them, but stopped inviting writers to look at the site.

One last note back on this one Bridget- we agree that the mass emails are not good for the Gather experience. Some members send this mail just to earn points, which is disappointing. Others go to a lot of work to create something and want to be sure their friends see it on Gather, which seems like a bona fide reason to reach out.

This month, we expect to help these legitimate members creating good content. We will offer new technology that makes it much easier for a member's friends to see what that member shared. This will eliminate the rational reasons for mass mailings.

Next we will take steps to prevent mass mailing on Gather. This will help decrease spam on the site.

Tom, I revcently viewed a member's work and do believe it to violate TOS, if the work is to be removed what happens to the member's point accrued related to the work?

Actually, it's common for groups of members to collude in posting and commenting on garbage content. Do you think the "Name words containing a letter of the alphabet" games are for intellectual stimulus? Often you'll see articles like this where the poster and those who comment seem to be members of a specific group of friends who boost each other's content.

Hey Shannon- Thanks for sharing how important points are to keeping you here on Gather. Would you be willing to share what sites you use today that might not have a points program? Why do you use those without some financial reward?

Now my blood is boiling thinking about those commission stealing toolbars and I can't focus on getting ready for my visitor. Maybe Gather would not offer a toolbar that overwrites affiliate ids like some of those other shopping for points sites do but I'm going to have to write an article about this.

I spend my time and money reviewing a product on my site and then someone with Upromise or Care2 toolbar orders that product on my site because of my review. I don't get the commission because the toolbar overwrites my affiliate id and replaces it with their own.

That is stealing. Plain and simple. I won't use a site that engages in it.

Thanks Tom, your answers are very helpful!

1)
I don't think the points have affected my behavior. I enjoy gather. I didn't come for the points but they are a nice incentive and personally I don't think I would publish as much if it weren't for the points.

2)
There is another site called Boomertowne where the points rack up very quickly. However, I hardly ever spend time there because it is a bore. I prefer to spend my time here where it takes four times as long to earn points.

3)
I have seen folks go point crazy with the constant gaming. An occasional game is cool but ten in a hour. A bit much!
Good behavior, I have seen so much good on this site as there are so many good people here.

Bad behavior? yes, I've seen alot of it, for instance I have a silent stalker who likes to follow me around to articles and give DB 1's where I leave comments. Lately, I haven't been commenting as much as reading an article and leaving a DB 10! Am I bothered by this, yes because I would like to participate in discussions. But what can you do? It really isn't a big deal and as long as I ignore them , they'll get bored and eventually stop.

4)

Honestly, I think visibility will lead to more point abuse. It is bettter this way. I am here because of the content of my connections, the friends I've made and the opportunity to make my own work visible.
I am having a poem published and it was because a fellow member noticed it and pointed me to a publication that she thought would be interested. I will see my first published piece next month and it's all because of gather.

5)

I like receiving gift cards. Lately we are invovled in renovating our home. The home depot cards are so helpful I would like to see more variety in gift cards and yes, gas cards would be wonderful. especially with summer travel.

6)

I remember awhile back you offered 50 points for folks who applied for a credit card, I can't remember which one. I thought that was a good idea.

Hope this helps...............

I use Gather for the points. It also gives me a way to show friends and family the part of the world the military put us in. i post about castles and the little trips we take. It makes for a lot of fun!

I love to play the games, and recently made a friends list just for games. It makes it easier to find the games i want.

I don't know how the points are awarded nor do I care. I have an account at Boomertowne but rarely go there.

Thank Tom for holding this session.

I think a lot of members would participate much less if points went away. The one word articles are annoying but I don't waste even a second looking at them.

BTW, revealing the point algorithm except in very general terms would kill the site. A certain number of people would exploit their knowledge of the algorithm and flood the site with content designed solely to accrue points. Gresham's Law in new clothes.

Priscilla- thanks for joining our conversation about points today! I am glad you enjoy gather with points (or without). I'm glad you like the points program, too.

You mention in your second comment that the "Name a word with the letter M" can become annoying to you (though they provide an occasionally pleasant distraction). How do you hear about those today? Would it be helpful if they were easily available to those who wanted them, but you didn't have to be bothered by them?

I do believe the games help with memory loss and to increase one intellectual portion of their mind.

You can play or not play. As it is up to you!

1 & 2. I would stay on gather with or without points because I love gather. I was on a long time before I earned my first gift card. Don't get me wrong its great when I do earn those gift cards but its not all about what I can get from this site. They have helped me do a little around the house with the home depot cards and borders has helped supply me with some great books to read.

3. One of the things I hate, though I have participated in them are some of the games. Now games that make you think are ok but these ones that are just to get page view/comments get quite old.

Along the same lines I think that people spamming our inboxs each time they write an article is quite annoying too. I think about blocking them but then I think what if they really have something they would like to write to me about and can't because I blocked them. Its a no win situation there.

4. I have no idea how points are awarded and honestly its quite frustrating but then again I think it might be good because then those that only use this site for the rewards they can get would know what to do and what not to do then leaving the rest of us who don't have time to sit on the computer and gather in the dust.

5 & 6.. I said this in the last chat that we had I think it would be great to be able to cash in points for money for those of us who can't reach that cash option. Though I think online shopping with our points would be cool too. That way I don't have to wait for my gift card to come in the mail I could use the points online that I have and purchase something right away. I would shop from gather if the option was there.

Welcome, Wilma- I hope you have a great time out with the grandkids!

Thanks for sharing that points matter to you. A Visa/American Express card option is a great suggestion. I'll pass that along to our team. Thanks too for sharing your desire to see a way to get cash out of the system (Visa card or other).

I'll also note that the "Games" articles are something that you do not find helpful and worry might be earning an unfair percentage of points. Enjoy your vacation!

One thing many people in the past have suggested, myself included, is point free content areas for things like "Words Beginning with M." I screen that stuff by not connecting with people who post things like that and by disconnecting from people I later find are doing it.

Would it be helpful if they were easily available to those who wanted them, but you didn't have to be bothered by them?

I suggest separate areas (and point systems) for the games, diary entries, and email spam reposts when they first started appearing. I still think this would solve many problems - IF you monitored them. (Group abuse shows that without monitoring, people will ignore the rules.)

Tom,

Have you considered posting a list of things you NEVER give points for - like commenting or sending gatherMail - so that maybe the word will filter out and people will knock it off?

As for your questions:
1. Don't care much about points, but the trickle of $ is nice.
2. Not sure if it would make me leave or just shrug and move on.
3. Lots of bad behavior: spamming, drivel posted as articles, hostility around cliques (if nobody was making points, would the serious writer v/ silly gamer fights happen?)
4. I think points are awarded via an extremely large version of bovine bingo played with hamsters and that's a disturbing enough image for today. evilGrin
5. More options seem to lead to more grumbling. Although if your advertisers wanted to match points/$ that was used on their products...
6. No! Leave the affiliate shopping to the small folk who don't have lots of big advertisers.

I am just popping in to this conversation so please forgive me if a post a question that somebody else has.

One suggestion that I have is that once a member has been on Gather for a certain amount of time(to be determined by Gather officals) the points value for each task should go up.

I actually like the games. I'm a foreign langauge student, and so when I go to play the games I always try to do so with words in either French or Spanish. It really helps me to get my mind thinking in those languages and gets me more familiar with the language (or familiar enough to be able to remember words with certain characteristics at a moment's notice).

Yes Tom, it's actually kinda sad because I will do almost anything for shoes. Gather is like my secret sugar daddy, lol.

j/k.....kinda.

In all seriousness though, the content I share has changed. I used to only post serious stuff, but my own Gather content has lightened up and I share a whole lot more.
I like to let all my Gather friends know about my interests, and finding out that several of them actually think it's neat or want to know more gets me excited.

I like finding things just to share here on Gather.

I also go about things differently in my personal life just so I can share them on Gather. When I discover a new band or a new place I can't wait to come back here and blab about it. I take pictures of so many moments of my life just so I can post them along with my articles, I never used to do that.

And for the record, if Gather ever takes away my Macy's cards I will be devastated. Think about that.

1) How have points influenced your personal experience on Gather? Have they changed your behavior (if so, how)? Do they matter a lot to you, a little, or not at all?

They don't matter to me and my behavior isn't tied into points.

2) Do you use the site more because of points, about the same, or less?

See above.

3) How do you think points have influenced the behavior of other members? What good behavior have you seen? What bad behavior have you seen?

I think they are a small incentive for those who provide quality content, but I'm probably not the best person to ask, as I provide little content myself, quality or otherwise. On they bad side, they encourage so-called "point whores" to repeatedly produce ridiculous "Name all the words that begin with the letter s" or "Count by 2's, even numbers" so-called "articles", only to rack up points. Many of these articles, in my opinion, provide nothing of value to the site. The resultant threads are more boring than watching cement dry, and the authors are rarely involved in them. I guess these members add to the number of members on the site but probably do nothing to attract potential new members who are interested in quality content and conversations.

4) How do you think points are awarded today? Would you like more visibility into how we award points? How would this change your behavior and the behavior of others on the site?

It wouldn't change *my* behavior. It would be an interesting experiment to see how it effects the rest of the site. I'm not sure I'd like to see the results. I think it's best to keep it a "secret".

5) What uses for points would you like to see going forward? We have had suggestions like having the ability to redeem points for cash, turn points into donations to charities of a member's choice, redeem points for airline miles, or freedom to buy from other merchants (which matter most to you)? Some people want to buy gas cards with points. One even wanted to pay down his mortgage. What would you like to see us do?

I'd like to be able to award my points to other members who produce the type of content that keeps me returning to the site. The potential for abuse there might make that prohibitive.

6) If we created a value-added shopping program for Gather members, where you could earn points for shopping online, would you start your shopping here? Would you share what you bought with friends from time-to-time if you earned additional points for doing so?

Ugh. NO. I think there's already too much Gather-sanctioned spam and book "reviews" as it is. I know it pays the bills, though. If you go this route, it would be helpful to know what kinds of promotional stuff is Gather-partnered and what isn't (via some sort of label). Otherwise, Gather could become a giant spam-fest. I can usually figure out that the folks constantly pushing bridal attire or golf clubs from India are spammers but some of the Gather partners are hard to tell. Additionally, new members thinking this is the place to sell their stuff might see the Gather-partnered stuff and think it's OK to push their stuff, too. I've seen it happen a few times.

But why can't people post games and get points for them??? Maybe they don't have the time to write really meaningful articles or poetry but really like the occasional gift cards.

I mean who are they harming?

J-Frugal Mom-R: Many thanks for the detailed response to my questions! I'm glad to hear that you might use a shopping option (particularly if we rewarded people for shopping on Amazon). it's nice that you would share some of the great stuff you buy out there. Where else do you shop online?

And last, you are very welcome, Frugal Mom. We are glad to have you here!

I am out of here. will check back later. We are going to a German Pizza Hut for dinner. Have not tried it yet but I pray that we don't get something way awful.

Josie- Thanks for requesting greater transparency in how points are awarded. We know there is some frustration with the "black box" nature of the current site. One of the key things we are looking at today is what motivates people to Gather more and how we can give good incentives to do it.

Thanks too for the note on shopping incentives. What sites do you use today? What do you like about them?

Well, there is no doubt that I enjoy getting points to get the gift cards, and it does influence my time spent here. I'm not sure I care to know how they are earned though.

I do think that together with our ability to organize groups etc. which you say is coming, that group participation might want to be considered in the earning of points.
Those that visit direct with groups, form and run them, a member being featured in groups, etc. would be some things that might bring theme groups back to better use here. It seems since there is nothing gained by directly visiting or managing groups, hardly anybody bothers anymore? It disappoints me to some extent because there is so much good reading and viewing in them that gets buried so fast if accessed only by the tabs/menu bar alone. Anyway, that's one idea I have... maybe others agree in some way...?

Take care.

Gift cards and points are an added bonus for the site. How about a Visa that can be loaded when the points are cashed in? That way we could shop anywhere we chose to, instead of being limited. Don't get me wrong, I have reedeemed points for a few gift cards, and I am gratefull for that.

"I mean who are they harming?"

There's a finite number of points available at any time. It's a lot easier to crank out the "games" than it is to write something. If you assume that people who want to write things care about points it means that they are handicapped when they try to earn them.

Faith- I'm glad you would be here either way. We have seen a lot of people giving their points to charity this month, through the Hallmark Red program or donating directly to public radio.

I note your frustration with the games, like others above. Having a section where those are posted is a good idea. Are you connected to people who post games as well? If not, where do you encounter the games most often?

Hi Tom!

I too would be here if there were no points, because I enjoy many other aspects of the site as well. I just started becoming active on here again, and it wasn't to earn points or cash - it was to reconnect with the great people I've met, and to get back to my writing again.

But if you are looking for feedback on how to improve the point system, my suggestion is to offer the opportunity for "bonus" points for things that show uniqueness, creativity, time and effort. That includes commenting as well as publishing. (For more specific info, see my comment on Pam Johnston's article - Talk to Tom : What's the Point? – 4/2 @ 1pm ET)

Sandy was right (no one is surprised there) with her comment about the featured articles often not representative of a quality site. I know I've complained about the typos, misspellings and grammatical errors in featured articles. I often send links to the opening page of gather - it's in my bio and my signature on most sites. When the front page features several articles laden with mistakes, it isn't inviting. We all look bad when that happens.

I second Bonnie's bonus points for uniqueness, creativity, time and effort suggestion!

before we get too far along here, let me publicly say thank you to Tom, and the Gather team.

No matter what the issues are/have been... Gather's compensation system allowed me justify continuing to having high speed access last year while Mom was going down and kept me in touch with not only the outside world but a community of friends here on Gather that literally saved the days, many days.

So if anybody wants to, let 'em come talk to me about what Gather means to some of us.

Hey Sherry W- Glad our early start let you sneak in under the wire. Pam told me that if I posted this before 1pm ET, we might catch a few more folks.

First, thanks for the feedback on my questions. It's interesting that you think increased transparency might lead to more attempts to game the system, thus leading to a worse overall experience on Gather. This concern is a key reason we kept the way in which points were distributed a bit vague when we described them.

What do you like best about Upromise?

I gather not only for the people but for the points. The points help me out as I am low income and can use the giftcards to get things for myself and others I normally wouldn't. I love gather and would probably be here without the points but I would be here a lot less without them.

I would like to see a walmart card so I could get groceries instead of having to borrow money all the time. I owe so much now it is ridiculous.

And, Tom - thanks for the "open kimono" conversation. You're a trooper for doing this!

6) If we created a value-added shopping program for Gather members, where you could earn points for shopping online, would you start your shopping here? Would you share what you bought with friends from time-to-time if you earned additional points for doing so?


Facebook immediately came to mind when I read this paragraph. The members were so unhappy about the shopping lists and being revealed that it hit the News Media.

I'm not sure what you have in mind with this. But I probably wouldn't shop from Gather, nor would I reveal what I bought if I did shop from Gather.

Hey Bonnie- Thanks for your note. First, I am glad that you enjoy reading humorous works here on Gather. That's some of my favorite stuff here, too.

We do keep the rules around awarding points kind of vague today. We thought that might help avoid people trying to game it, but we know that frustrates a lot of folks. The best way to grow points over time is to invite your friends, family, and colleagues to Gather and share the things in your life that you know they will like.

Andrea R- Congrats on your sister's upcoming wedding (and i am glad the points will help buy her something nice)! It's gratifying to know that you would be back each day to be with your friends here on Gather, points or no points. It will help our planning to know that the points do matter to you, though. Perhaps we might find new, helpful ways in which you might earn them going forward.

Tom, the points come in very handy for those of us on fixed incomes.There should be a way to reward those who do Origional, Timely, Thought provoking Articles a bit more than the one word games (ugg) or the posting of E-mail jokes (sometimes funny), that type of stuff..... I loathe most mass E-mails, some are needed to point the way to a new read, etc......I would not spend as much time here if no points or some other system of reward, but I would still BE here. There are some fine writers on the site, some good friends, a wonderful varity of interesting people, posts to check out. i have thought for quite awhile that commenting gives me zero points, but commenting is the WAY to appreciate, sooo...."tis much commenting i do, to show gratitude to those who
DO...lol... No shopping for me here tho...sorry! :)

I can appreciate the people who are on here for the points, and I realize that's important to some. (And when I say points, I mean cash or points) ... With that said, I have to tell you that I recently joined Boomertowne because everyone was raving about that site.

What I don't like about it, is that you have to do A, B and C to get points and there seems to be no real inspiration or desire behind it. People post jokes and recipes just to get points, they comment just for points, etc. So the content isn't that good and frankly it bores me.

Tom;

I am a iNielsen client... and a couple others too... I'd hate for any Gather system to mess those up!

Lloyd

1) How have points influenced your personal experience on Gather? Have they changed your behavior (if so, how)? Do they matter a lot to you, a little, or not at all?

Yes Tom, very much. I'm more keen about my photos now than before, and it really matter to know that Gather is giving the points to all of us not just a select few elites so even though I'm not a professional photographer & my photos have not won any pulitzer prize I can still get some points here n there.


2) Do you use the site more because of points, about the same, or less?

I use it more because of the points that we can exchange with gifts or cash.


3) How do you think points have influenced the behavior of other members? What good behavior have you seen? What bad behavior have you seen?

I've seen people developing a better pictures, which is good, the community in Gather is really good in supporting other creations, it's not perfect but it's still much better. The bad thing, I've seen some people bashing the points and the people who enjoy accepting those points, I'm thinking hey if they really really want quality materials they can always pay for expensive seminars.


4) How do you think points are awarded today? Would you like more visibility into how we award points? How would this change your behavior and the behavior of others on the site?

I think the points awarded today is much harder to get than 6 months ago. If you explain the formula, it will be a blessing for many & also open the opportunity to abuse the system. But 'abusing' is happening in the world even without points, like parents abusing their childrens, I saw in another website how much other member prefer to abuse fellow members based on their typing accuracy, etc.


5) What uses for points would you like to see going forward? We have had suggestions like having the ability to redeem points for cash, turn points into donations to charities of a member's choice, redeem points for airline miles, or freedom to buy from other merchants (which matter most to you)? Some people want to buy gas cards with points. One even wanted to pay down his mortgage. What would you like to see us do?

I think if Gather has more gift card variety it will help. Like gc from Target, Best Buy, or some chain restaurant, or visa gift card.


6) If we created a value-added shopping program for Gather members, where you could earn points for shopping online, would you start your shopping here? Would you share what you bought with friends from time-to-time if you earned additional points for doing so?

It depends on how much reward we can get from Gather, if it's the best reward I definetely is going to use it. If it's the best reward for certain merchant, I'd just use it for those certain merchant that I'm using. I'm not so sure about sharing it with friends, I'm sorry but I'm a little germaphobic, but I think I can share my feeling about shopping with Gather. For this shopping rewards kind, I'm gonna really really need to know the points formula.

Thank a lot Tom for the points, & I hope you have a good chat today!

Tom - since the last upgrade - I'm getting multiple notices of articles published. I got four for this one today. How can I fix that?

I like Bonnie's idea , say for instance if you write an "original" meaningful article that finds its way to the front page, you should be rewarded.

I also tire of the mass "come look at me" mail. I have had several connections that sent one out each time they posted and these people were posting several times a day. I have disconnected from most of them. I wish I could just shut my box off. With the ping system I see no need for mail.

I am in no way saying I never do it, in fact I was probably one of the first to behave this way when I was working on points for NOCH. I regret that I sent out all those mass mails. I occasionally still send one out if the notification system isn't working but I generally try to avoid this.

I have an idea. What about a link at the top of the page that lists the games separately. That way the gamers can still access their games without it clogging up our front pages.

WM H. -

Thanks for calling out some of the downsides of points. I am sorry that some of this clutter might dissuade you from sharing your thoughts/work here. Honestly, that's the biggest negative I have heard so far.

A month ago, we started collecting and "rolling-up" viewership information for the content members share here. We expect to begin letting you see that information when you view your own work soon. Would it help you to have all views visible in a report some day as well or is seeing it on the individual content items sufficient?

And i get e-mail notification of articles but never checked that I wanted them. anywho

The best way to grow points over time is to invite your friends, family, and colleagues to Gather and share the things in your life that you know they will like.

I have had many people join Gather that I did not actually invite with the Gather invite function. I sent them a link to an article of mine I thought they would enjoy or posted a link at another site and they joined after following that link. I assumed I received no points for this since Gather really has no way of knowing I initiated the person joining.

It would be nice if someone clicks a link to one of my articles and joins after reading that article that I would get some points for that.

Andrea R- Thanks for sharing your thoughts that points only affect your time on Gather moderately. I'll see if our product team can add a few more hours to the day so you can hang out a little bit longer sometime soon :-)

Hi Tom,

Here are my responses to your bullets:

1) Points are important to me. They are GREATLY appreciated and they help motivate me to publish when my muses and I are struggling.

2) Points are not the only reason I use the site, but they do inspire me to use the site more.

3) I know that some people are only here to earn points. The worst offenses (in my eyes) are cut and paste articles.

4) If people know specifics about how points are awarded it would definitely effect how some of them use the site. I think explaining how points are awarded might make some positive differences in the group management realms.

5) Expanding the selection of things that points can be redeemed for can only be A GOOD THING !!

6) Yes, but I would still want the ability to have gift cards that would be sent to me for brick and mortar shopping.



Is Gather Gear offered to us for purchase with points?

Now I will go scan through the comments.

Thanks for creating and running Gather. I Love It !!

Yeah sorry thought we'd be gone by now!

Boy it'd be nice for simplified explanation of how one gets points. I'd really like to know why I have to scrimp for three months to get 1000 points and others get that in a day.

Well, I am pretty new to gather and to be honest with you I don't understand a lot about it. I enjoy the site and use it because I get points for doing things here that I may do on another site that doesn't reward me. Would I use it less if I didn't get points? Probably. I personally enjoy the games because it makes my mind work. I would love to see more gift cards as an option. As far as a value-added shopping option I probably wouldn't use it because I don't shop online, but I'm sure there are some that would.

I'll see if our product team can add a few more hours to the day so you can hang out a little bit longer sometime soon :-)

If you can pull that off, not only will participation increase but membership will skyrocket.

I'd have to say that yes the points affect how I use Gather, but it's the people that K me here now. Even though we've lost some good ones.