Last week, Sarah Palin, posted this on Facebook:
The America I know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with Down Syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama's "death panel" so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their "level of productivity in society," whether they are worthy of health care. Such a system is downright evil.
And on Sunday, she was reported to have said this:
There are many disturbing details in the current bill that Washington is trying to rush through Congress, but we must stick to a discussion of the issues and not get sidetracked by tactics that can be accused of leading to intimidation or harassment.
Unlike Ms. Moosegutter, those of us who are voicing strong support in favor of health care reform, can focus on the issues to be discussed and not go off fabricating "facts" and trying to induce panic.
One supposed "issue" I'd like to address is the "death panel." Besides being ridiculous, we all know that one day, we may very likely have to make a decision about whether or not to continue someone's life. It could be a spouse, a child, or a friend who is without family. The human race has been doing this for centuries. Modern times require us to have documents in place and specify a person to speak for us, but we don't do this without heavy thought.
It's a personal decision that we think about and talk about with the people we're closest to. None of us will ever give that up. None of us expect anyone to give that up. Proponents of health care reform don't want it for themselves, their families, their friends, or opponents of health care reform.
The "death panel" will never exist. Those of us fighting to see that every American has health care will not allow it. We are aware that any bill that passes will need tweaked and tuned over time until it works for all. We aren't about "death panels" and throwing the end of life decisions into the hands of strangers. Perhaps those who watch some end of the world scenario sci fi movies think it's going to happen, but have we gotten our flying cars yet? Not everything imagined comes to be reality.
Addressing "worthiness" of health care - we already have a system that determines if people are "worthy" of health care or not. Access to health care has been tied to how successful a person is in the job market. I've worked 1 or 2 part-time jobs for much of my life. Part-time employees don't get benefits like health insurance or sick days. There are many people with non-prestigious jobs that receive an hourly wage and that's it.
It's not necessarily a matter of having a college degree or even a high school degree that determines "worth." That value judgment is based on how badly you need X and who can deliver X to you. If you are jonesing for a Big Mac, that underpaid guy flipping burgers and the even more underpaid gal in the drive through window are quite valuable at that moment. You don't care if he's got a degree in microbiology and the food manufaturer he worked for shut down. It doesn't matter if she is an LPN who had to leave nursing because she hurt her back and can't lift patients any longer but still has a family to support. You just want those morons to make sure you have extra Mac Sauce and plenty of napkins.
Along the same lines, if your car breaks down on the highway and the fifteen year old amateur grease monkey who barely goes to classes gets it running using a piece of tinfoil and the gum that was wrapped in it, you'd happily handstitch "Mr. Goodwrench" on his shirt. He's got no education to speak of, but he is of great value to you at that moment.
With health care reform, we seek to justify that wrong-headed belief that value to society and access to health care is restricted to how much income a person pulls down and if he "smart enough" to find an employer who offers benefits. Making health care affordable and accessible to everyone opens up possibilities for people who may not have had them because of a physical ailment or restriction. Health care can prolong lives and productivity.
When you are against health care reform and you spout lies about what is coming, you are showing how against your fellow citizens you are. You are saying they are not worthy of a healthy life or the security of knowing they won't be left destitute because of medical bills. You are making judgements on people you don't even know.
One day, you may have a need and perhaps only one person exists with the skill or information to fill that need. Unfortunately, that person is a part-time employee with an Associate of Arts degree, who is unable to come into work because she has had strep throat and a fever for a week and no doctor will see her right away because she has no insurance or the money to pay for urgent care. You lose valuable time and get a half-assed solution, with which you aren't satisfied, but you don't believe people who work half time are "worthy" of health care and you know only stupid people settle for part-time jobs.
You are the death panel.
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Comments: 117
I thought I was living in a country FULL of crazy people, but the past 18 months has shown me that's not true. The crazy are in the minority, they just have big, stupid mouths.
Would you volunteer to read it to the Palins? I'm not sure they have that skill set.
BTW, No more palens here. She quit last month. Yay! Last I heard she was in DC.
I'd say that the Moosegutter is all for dealth panels if she is against health care reform.
we've had death panels in this country for years....insurance companies.
I think Palin is a fear mongering bag of shat unfortunately there are many people who take her seriously. Scary.
But beyond all that,
YES! Spell Death Panel as Private insurance Company.
Insurance companies really need to be not for profit health plans for all.
Dumass Moosegutter sure doesn't mind being on the death panel when it comes to war, or when she's butting into a woman's right to choose life over pregnancy, or when she's planning her little Joel's Army man-induced Armageddon.
How long before she and Newt break the news of their love affair?
Newt's been backing her up. I think he's setting his cap for her.
Sarah Palin is a disgrace to herself, her family, her party and her country. The way I look at it, either she's lying or she's an idiot. One or the other. Either should require her to never be taken seriously by anyone ever again. UGH. She's been bought and paid for, I'm sure.
Many employers hire part timers purposely to NOT have to pay for benefits. I worked places like that. The would have you work every possible second under 40 hours a week. It's rotten and they won't be able to do that anymore.
Now everyone write your elected officials and tell them to make this happen!!!
(I don't believe it's either or with Palin, she is a liar and an idiot. Just because she's too stupid to know when she's lying doesn't mean she isn't a liar.)
HOUSE OR SENATE? AND WHICH COMMITTEE? ONE WOULD REALLY NEED TO BE A LAWYER TO UNDERSTAND A LOT OF IT. I THINK I'LL STICK TO SUMMARIES. UNLESS YOU WANT TO CITE CHAPTER AND VERSE AS TO WHAT IS IN THERE THAT IS SOOO SCARY TO CAUSE YOUR ALL CAPS BUTTON TO FREEZE UP LIKE THIS!
Kat and Lisa, I feel not stress as I, unlike the hapless, have insurance and if I didn't I wouldn't think it was beneath me to actually have to get a job and buy my own.
We really need to get away from health care being tied to jobs and income.
so don't tell me anything about getting off my butt to get a job. don't tell me anything about your great insurance. the economy is such that your employer may take those benefits from you. you better get on your knees & beg at that point; you won't be able to afford health insurance on your own....trust me.
Michelle lucky for me, I am recession proof. There will be no hard luck stories coming from me. But I hear your point. There are ideas out there better than what has been offered up by congress so far. Government destroyed public education, mismanaged Social Security to the point where it will never be able to keep it's promises to me and my generation, and has shown an absolute disregard, if not complete inability to control waste and mismanagement on any level. There is NO WAY we can let them destroy America's exceptional health care.
""" Jeff, you do know we aren't even in the top thirty nations in quality of care, but we pay twice what any other nation spends for health care, per person.""
We barely make the top 30 nations in education too and we spend over 5 times as much money as other countries. Government doesn't run health care yet but if you think it is bad now, you haven't seen anything yet.
That's all relative. If you are on welfare and food stamps, hell yeah it's a free country. But what if you are the one paying for it? Your entitlement mentality resembles a spoiled child at a candy store when mommy says no Grow up. But as always Sandy, way to challenge my points.
Ron, All though the VA hospital system is currently going through an overhaul over the past 10 8 years, all I ever hear is bad news about it.
You can't because there isn't one.
READ THE BILL!
Before insurance, before there was a health care INDUSTRY, people could afford health care, even hospital stays. Back in the early 70's, I remember my next door neighbor had to have a pacemaker put in. He worked as a jack-of-all-trades. His wife worked in the library. He had the surgery - quiteradical back then. They didn't lose their house and they weren't on Medicare or Medicaid. They paid off the bills and didn't miss a beat.
Who can do that now?
So get off this idea of "entitlement" because that is not what this is about! It's about making it accessible and affordable for ALL!
E.M Jay, you might not be asking for free health care or another government entitlement but that's want congress is offering which is why I am opposed to it. But you are wrong, in that last sentence. Sandy thinks part of living in a free country means free health care.
"""Before insurance, before there was a health care INDUSTRY, people could afford health care, even hospital stays. Back in the early 70's,"""
I remember when Social Security payroll taxes had obscene surpluses. Once again, no government option. The insurance industry that has been attached to employment and the demographics within each group is fundamentally flawed to say the least and yes, reform is needed indeed but you have not made any case that government is competent to manage it. Neither has micheele, Ron, Sandy, or anybody else.
""Point out the "Death Panel" provision Jeff.
You can't because there isn't one. ""
I never claimed that there was one. To be fair, and since the intention of the post reference thatpoint, I will tell you that "death panel" rhetoric does nothing to further the debate and when I heard that Sarah Palin said that I was embarrassed for her. She is becoming the Howard Dean of the right .
As long as there is an unregulated health care INDUSTRY, people will be raped and pillaged for health care services.
I learned tonight that according to the American Cancer Society, woman who are diagnosed with breast cancer are 60% MORE LIKELY TO DIE if they are uninsured.
Is that an acceptable statistic to you? Is that good enough for your mother, your sister, your friend?
Of course I don't. I made a point to Ron, who admits he wants FREE health care, and she accused me of being anti-freedom. I know she is your friend and that you guys share a lot of laughs regarding how conservatives are Nazis, so I admit i don't know her like you do. She usually calls me a Nazi. So YOU are thick to castigate me for not knowing Sandy.
I am ALL for health care reform.
1.) Illegals with a federal law guaranteeing them free health care at the emergency room. Are you for it or against it?
2.) Tort reform, to regulate trial lawyers and frivolous lawsuits that netted lawyers like Jon Edwards multi-million dollar settlements that modern science has proven to completely discredit his case, are you for it or against it?
3.) Government cant run anything effectively or efficiently and the want to run health care, are you for it or against it?
Look I agree that we need reform. You still haven't made a case as to why government overhaul is the solution. Reform yes. Government take over? NO!
BOOOGAH BOOOOGAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hey, guess what? Every politician you see making that claim has government run health care he would NEVER give up because it is so much better than what the private sector offers.
I have the same coverage because I am a retired federal worker. Believe me, I would not trade it for what YOU get!
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/category/health-care-fact-check/
Carl Rove started the practice of flooding all sources with huge numbers of outright lies and slanders. This has become the norm for the right wing. At this point I think the right wing leaders are just INCAPABLE of ever saying anything without adding so many whoppers to it that they lose all credibility.
It is a safe bet that if you get ANYTHING from a right wing source, the exact opposite is almost certain to be true. It is really a sad statement on what remains of the Republican party.
I wonder what the Spartans would have done with her?
Wanna betcha?
Does Terri Schiavo ring a bell?
"...we already have a system that determines if people are 'worthy' of health care or not."
Oh no!!! Haven't you heard that the U.S. has the best healthcare system in the world? If you have access to it, you have nothing at all to worry about - that is, until you no longer have access because 1. you lost your job, or 2. you got sick.
"When you are against health care reform and you spout lies about what is coming, you are showing how against your fellow citizens you are...You are the death panel."
Well said. We do have government healthcare already, after all. It's for the old, the poor (and therefore, more likely sick), and the chronically ill. That is, it's not for people, who haven't yet been deemed unprofitable by the insurance companies. These guys certainly don't want to give up their profitable base, now do they?
I think most people over 40 or 45 would be considered "unprofitable" and would not be able to get coverage if they didn't have it through an employer. There are those of us who aren't old enough for Medicare, not poor enough for Medicaid and not able to gain access because of a variety of reasons.
Just ask the RN who was diagnosed with Breast Cancer and was promptly told by her insurance company that she no longer has health insurance because she supposedly didn't tell them that she received treatment for eczema as a child, thus "lying about a pre existing condition making her insurance contract Null and Void"!
As for Palin~ she speaks out of another orifice and therefore her words deliver little else but bullsh**~
This entire country has been refocused from good things to a very, very unhealthy obsession with money and 'things'. Even the people like these ol' southern ladies veritably spit hatred through the phone lines about those 'do nuthins' who just want a free meal. It just about turns my stomach when I start to hear a caller and realize that a)_it's a female, and 2) it's a southerner. Why so much pure hatred? Why so much, "what's mine is mine and you ain't gonna get a red cent, no matter how much in need you are."
To me, those people make up the 'death panel'. They are so willing to sink their grubby fingernails into their measley belongings and let others perish around them. And the most ironic thing is, when the commentator asks what kind of health plan they have, it's almost always Medicare.
This country is suffering from interminable stupidity and hatred.
I'm getting this weird mental image of a gang of seniors busting up a coffee shop and it ain't pretty. Words, gentlemen, not fists.
During the early days of the AIDS crisis, the insurance companies came to the conclusion that they would save money by denying all health coverage to anyone with AIDS and using their lawyers to use delaying tactics against any lawsuits. It was cheaper to pay the lawyers until the victims died than it was to live up to their contract with them.
Insurance companies are out for one thing -- profit. They do not care about your life or your health. I would much rather see a public option where some uncaring government worker would just follow the rules over a private insurance company employee who is looking for some way around them rules in order to make more profit for the company.