Chauffeur Refuses to Drive Godless Bus
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A Christian bus driver from Southampton, England refused to drive his assigned bus because it had on its side a large slogan proclaiming an atheist slogan, states BBC.
Ron Heather said that he reacted with chock and horror when he saw the text: There's Probably No God.
Ethnologist and evolutionary biologist (Oxford University and UC Berkeley) Dr. Clinton Richard Dawkins and the British Humanist Association bought advertising space on 800 buses and other vehicles across Great Britain, and the company for which Ron Heather works – First UK Bus – states that the advertising campaign has been approved by the British Advertising Standards Agency.
The advertising slogan also encourages: Now stop worrying, and enjoy your life.
According to Hanne Stintson of the British Humanist Society, the bus ad campaign was also in response to a fundamentalist Evangelist Christian advertisement campaign across the British Isles, proclaiming one particular viewpoint as the only source of human contentment.
First UK Bus has stated that they would attempt to accommodate Ron Heather's need to drive a more godly bus.
The Bible is not my book and Christianity is not my religion. I could never give assent to the long complicated statements of Christian Dogma
--US President Abraham Lincoln
(Wonder what Sarah Palin would say if she knew this...)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/hampshire/7832647.stm
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Comments: 74
I'm gonna miss that woman.
Excellent article.
WANDERING STARS
It took guts to do what he did. I hope he shows similar courage in following his understanding of what God would have him do in other areas.
"In regard to this Great Book, I have but to say, it is the best gift God has given to man. All the good the Savior gave to the world was communicated through this book." The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume VII, "Reply to Loyal Colored People of Baltimore upon Presentation of a Bible" (September 7, 1864), p. 542.
The following demonstrates Lincoln's humble, unquestioned dependence on God's aid. Rarely do our history books tell the story of a president on his knees in prayer! This was a statement he made to General Dan Sickles, a participant in the battle of Gettysburg:
"Well, I will tell you how it was. In the pinch of the campaign up there (at Gettysburg) when everybody seemed panic stricken and nobody could tell what was going to happen, oppressed by the gravity of our affairs, I went to my room one day and locked the door and got down on my knees before Almighty God and prayed to Him mightily for victory at Gettysburg. I told Him that this war was His war, and our cause His cause, but we could not stand another Fredericksburg or Chancellorsville... And after that, I don't know how it was, and I cannot explain it, but soon a sweet comfort crept into my soul. The feeling came that God had taken the whole business into His own hands and that things would go right at Gettysburg and that is why I had no fears about you." [July 5, 1863]
This is Lincoln's proclamation that the last Thursday of November should be set aside as a day of Thanksgiving. Many days of Thanksgiving had been proclaimed by presidents before this one, but this is the one that finally turned into the national holiday that we celebrate annually.
"It has seemed to me fit and proper that they (gifts of God) should be solemnly, reverently, and gratefully acknowledged as with one heart and one voice by the whole American people. I do, therefore, invite my fellow-citizens in every part of the United States, and also those who are at sea and those who are sojourning in foreign lands, to set apart and observe the last Thursday of November next as a day of thanksgiving and praise to our beneficent Father who dwelleth in the heavens." [October 3, 1863]
Whatever your feelings about God or the bus, the implication that Lincoln did not believe in Bible or in God is false (according to numerous quotes).
One of Lincoln's earliest statements on the subject of his faith came in 1846:
"That I am not a member of any Christian church is true; but I have never denied the truth of the Scriptures; and I have never spoken with intentional disrespect of religion in general, or of any denomination of Christians in particular....I do not think I could myself be brought to support a man for office whom I knew to be an open enemy of, or scoffer at, religion." [July 31, 1846]
To read more go to
http://www.greatamericanhistory.net/lincolnsfaith.htm
Love the Lincoln quote. I can throw that one out there the next time someone spouts about the bible saying this or that, like I care.
It's also great for all those that talk about the intents and beliefs of our founding fathers.
Fatheads.
As to Lincoln, his views on religion were nuanced, and evolved over his lifetime, just like every other view he held. In his early life, Lincoln repeatedly suffered hoible personal losses of his mother, and his first love. Along with giving him a life long tendency towards depression, these events may have convinced him that the existence of a loving God can be considered unlikely. Is it possible that the terrible suffering of the Civil War may have had the opposite effect of driving him back to a belief in a deity? WHo knows, Presidents do not have the privilege of saying publicly suck it up people there ain't no god. It can cost you votes, really.
Clearly he had no interest in organized religion.
In the Civil War both sides prayed to the same God. No matter the outcome God therefore would be given the credit for the victory by one and the blame for defeat by the other. Actually I don't think God had anything to do with it. Humans had that one all to themselves as in most wars. It is a case of the free will of man gone bad.
Thanks for something to think about!
Jim G.'s comment is highly relevant "Where do we draw the line between religion, culture and tolerance in the commercial sector?" We here at Gather are in a commercial sector. Maybe what's being learned, practiced, and shared here can be applied when we venture out. We humans are melded too closely in today's world to not be consistent in regards to tolerance and daily personal reconciliation with those we come into contact with. Writing off whole masses of people keeps us caught in the current dark age.
Abe knew. Poor Sarah... well, Trig's gonna help her alot!
I am so grateful for our new president-- a Christian who appears to understand freedom of speech and the separation of church and state.
I'll try to watch this video and give an opinion about that...Salud
Apparently they are trying to do that, but in my opinion, they have no legal or even moral obligation to do so. It's his choice not to drive the bus. Nobody can make him do a job he doesn't want to do, for whatever reason. I mean, he could have said he didn't want to drive the bus because he didn't like the color it was painted and the same criteria would apply.
Thank you for posting to this group whose only purpose is to thank you for posting to this group.
The Grand Dame: "pray for atheism". I wish my Daddy were still around. He would have been all over the top of this one. Wonderful!
So much is done in the name of one religion or another - what a lament....wars, genocide, greed, corruption, dictatorships, don't drive a bus that suggests slander to religion, don't taxi people around who don't fit your religion's agenda...yada, yada, yada... Yes, Carla, what really matters is standing up for all fellow human beings and treating each and every one of them with unbiased love, reverence, and respect - such freedom in that, such peacefulness, such quiet joy...fear begone....
That is a brilliant comment, Dame Ruth. In the end, there are many problems with this bus driver. He is hired to do a job. Atheists can buy advertising on buses. The bus driver should be suspended for insubordination. It is the only way to treat an employee who thinks that his personal beliefs negate his duty to fulfill his responsibilities. In a society that believes in the decency of all people as the UK professes often, the bus driver is clearly wrong. I'm sorry, but I believe with all of my might that the person who refuses to fill a prescription or the driver who refuses to drive a bus is simply playing his employer for a fool. It does not harm anyone's faith to fulfill their job responsibilities. If he doesn't like the job, he should resign. The employer should be under no obligation to accommodate religious or personal beliefs. There has to be a limit to this madness.
What's on the bus isn't as important as what is in the bus and how people treat one another. People take a stand about their religious rights and then they treat people with no repspect or compassion.
so true and I agree. Salud
Love the Lincoln quote!
Col. George W.: In the Civil War both sides prayed to the same God. No matter the outcome God therefore would be given the credit for the victory by one and the blame for defeat by the other. Actually I don't think God had anything to do with it.
Lincoln's belief in a deity came early in his life and he never lost it. When he ran for Congress from Illinois's Seventh Congressional District in 1846, he faced a Methodist minister who was perhaps his first opponent to employ Bent Lorentzen's distorted attack on Lincoln's views of Christianity, the Bible, and the nature of God. Janna O'Donnell's Lincoln quote (comment above) that she has dated July 31, 1846, is from a flyer that Lincoln circulated during that campaign.
It was after the death of his 4-year-old son, Edward, in 1850, he regularly attended Presbyterian churches in Springfield and Washington, pastored by doctrinal conservatives. Yet he never became a member of any congregation.[emphasis added]*
One can scarcely imagine the toll of the Civil War and its bloody losses must have had on President Lincoln. At one of the darkest hours, after 2nd Bull Run (September 1862) Lincoln wrote:
The will of God prevails. In great contests each party claims to act in accordance with the will of God. Both may be, and one must be, wrong. God can not be for and against the same thing at the same time. In the present civil war it is quite possible that God's purpose is something different from the purpose of either party—and yet the human instrumentalities, working just as they do, are of the best adaptation to effect His purpose. I am almost ready to say this is probably true—that God wills this contest, and wills that it shall not end yet. By his mere quiet power, on the minds of the now contestants, He could have either saved or destroyed the Union without a human contest. Yet the contest began. And having begun He could give the final victory to either side any day. Yet the contest proceeds.
By March, 1865, Lincoln's understanding of the sovereignty of God--and reliance on the Bible--were evident in one of the greatest political speeches of all time--his Second Inaugural speech:
Neither [side] anticipated that the cause of the conflict [i.e., slavery] might cease with, or even before, the conflict itself should cease. Each looked for an easier triumph, and a result less fundamental and astounding. Both read the same Bible, and pray to the same God; and each invokes His aid against the other. It may seem strange that any men should dare to ask a just God's assistance in wringing their bread from the sweat of other men's faces; but let us judge not that we be not judged. The prayers of both could not be answered; that of neither has been answered fully. The Almighty has His own purposes. 'Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!' If we shall suppose that American Slavery is one of those offences which, in the providence of God, must needs come, but which, having continued through His appointed time, He now wills to remove, and that He gives to both North and South this terrible war as the woe due to those by whom the offence came, shall we discern therein any departure from those divine attributes which the believers in a Living God always ascribe to Him? Fondly do we hope—fervently do we pray—that this mighty scourge of war may speedily pass away. Yet, if God wills that it continue, until all the wealth piled by the bondman's two hundred and fifty years of unrequited toil shall be sunk, and until every drop of blood drawn with the lash, shall be paid by another drawn with the sword, as was said three thousand years ago, so still it must be said, 'the judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether.'
See:
Matthew 18:7
Psalm 19:9
* link:
http://www.christianitytoday.com/holidays/memorial/features/33h010.html
What bus would Jesus drive?
(Hint, it is not what goes onto the side of a bus that makes a man unholy, it is what comes forth from his mouth.)
He should get whatever is coming to him--for subordination and malfeasance on the job.
I agree completely with you, Jennifer, that his standing on principle is admirable. That is something even a rabid atheist like Bent should appreciate.
Second, if I refused to do my job because of my religious affiliation, I'd be disciplined. Doesn't this come under the "give to Ceasar what is Ceasar's"? He's not being forced to agree or hand out literature or anything that shows religious mythology for what it is--he's to do his job--what he was hired to do. Oh, but for the religious to allow for other opinions, facts, ideas--that is not allowed, so much for the "tolerance" they scream about.
I would ignore the sign and just do my job.
I refused a job working for a physician who performed abortions. I could not be a part of any organization that is against my beliefs.
Today is MLK day in America & tomorrow we'll be celebrating the inauguration of our first black president. King's long campaign for civil rights basically starts with Rosa Parks and the Montegomery BUS boycot. Isn't it funny that this interesting and useful discussion involves -- a BUS!. I think this shows that PUBLIC TRANSIT is important in ways that we can only begin to understand. Let's hope a lot of that bridges-and-roads bailout money that Barak's talking about goes in that direction, instead of stupid highways that noone can afford to drive on anyway.
In the scheme of things, and advertisement doesn't measure up to real discrimination.
I agree, his job is to drive a bus.
My fervent wish is that his employer would show equal courage and fire the sumbitch.
As others have said, this whole business of refusing to do your job because of religious principles is ridiculous, and I have felt this way for a long time. In fact I wrote an article for Gather a couple years ago called The Right to Not Work.
Here's a better one that I wrote more recently called Wanted...Careers for Non Workers.
Christian messages, then goes on to show billboards and church
marquees as examples. My question is, did any of those Christian
ads appear on buses or other publicly owned property? If they
did, then, that could be the root of the problem, by American
standards; i.e. "Congress shall pass no law effecting the
establishment of religion." (American Christians, incidentally,
seem to be constantly nagging away at that right, are they not?)
maybe the manager was Jewish!
We had a guy at work that used to cut snippets out of his church bulletin that contained scripture verses as credence, often for some very vile comments about women. He'd post them on the office bulletin board. For a while I'd add the bible verse above and the verse below just to show how often his preacher was quoting totally out of context. When that got boring, I started pulling the pages from my desk calender that noted other religions holidays and I'd tack those up. He complained that I was mocking him as there were no Jews and Hindus in the office. I asked HR if that meant he keeps track of that, or did they? They told us both to stop. And I did, until he started up again, then I transferred his clippings to the HQ bulletin board.
After a closed door session with HR he didn't do it anymore.
How interesting. My reaction is positive to what the British Humanists have done. They make a good point. Their view is decidedly different from most Christians, and, hey, they have some truth. Just as Christians have some truth. And it's a positive good if it causes people to discuss and think.
Cheers,
Jim
:O|