Y'all all l have me nervious about postting.

If a person is interested in the message the grammar will not matter

everyone's a f****** critic~aren't they~there is something called gathermail which one can use to gently notify someone of grammatical or spelling errors instead of pointing it out so disrespectfully in the comment thread of the post~a lot of times my readers will do just this and I thank them profusely~however~don in the comment thread~my purr goes growly~

good points~BRAVA!~

now you know some will argue that if you can't take the heat ~ get outta the kitchen~

and some don't even realize they are being rude~and do believe they are being helpful~

good post~  =)

Grammar Nazis bite!!!!   By the way Genki, you wrote "don" instead of "done".  Heeeheeee.   Yeah, I know, "SWAT"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!    :.)

it is good to see that you are learning to SWAT yourself as needed~ =D

I leave myself open to being corrected all the time.  I don't take the time to proof read most of what I post but I do correct typos and other mistakes if I notice them.  I have been corrected a few times and usually in a funny way like, "I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one who has problems typing Mississippi correctly", I thought it was a friendly and gentle way of pointing out a silly mistake. 

I think most people try their best to post error free but mistakes happen, people get distracted or could be sleepy when putting up a post.  I think someone that points out a mistake in a harsh or cruel way is just not a very nice person to begin with.

If someone cant correct someone nicely they shouldnt do it at all. Me I make lots and lots of mistakes. Usually everyone corrects me, not me correcting them.

That is such a shame.  I have a few friend connections like the young man you describe, and I am just so happy to be able to share their lives, even if I have to 'figure it out' sometimes because the grammar and words are wrong.  Some people are great with that kind of thing, and some just are not.  If you are not enjoying someone's style of writing, why not leave them alone instead of make them feel bad for their abilities?

some people are a little cruel about correcting soem have a lot more tact. I prefer to be corrected myself. I once posted a wildflower and had incorrectly identified it.

Common courtesy should prevail...triple period.

I couldn't agree more.

Most of the snarky comments I've seen are from very small minded people; they try to attack your knowledge/intellect and then to prove the point, they'll add---"and you can't spell--how stupid!"

Of course they are usually quoting BS Oreilly or Rush Limpd**k as they are trying to say my post is stupid!

They refuse to desist because their definition of manners/courtesy is "political correctness"--obviously manners and courtesy was never taght in their home.

One can always be kind about correction.  I guess it's the teacher in me, but I do think public communications should be at a higher stand than one's notes to friends, or grocery lists on your refrigerator.  My view is, if I expect people to take the time out of their day to read what I have written, I should make every effort to write as correctly as I possibly can, including initial proof-reading and subsequent editing when something has been pointed out.  I feel that if we strive for the best, then we welcome sincere correction. 

I have worked in business for years now and sometimes am appalled at what people dash off in emails or letters.  It's like they just cannot be bothered to care.  Well, that is the impression everybody takes away, then.  In the case of the dyslexic writer, I think they need to be especially vigilant, and probably make a habit of reminding people of their limitations.  When you publically post on Gather, not just to a special sub-set of people who know you, it is incumbent upon you to clarify that to people who are perhaps coming upon your articles for the first time. 

Again, all this can be done with kindness and care.

So many people simply become bullies on the Internet because they have lost sight of the individual. They also need to be superior to all others and nit-picking on grammer is the easiest of targets.

I often suggest anyone who needs help writing, download the Google Tool bar and install the Spell Checker feature. You can remove many of the other features so this new toolbar is not cluttered and have this spell checker available. It works excellent in these comment blocks.

 http://www.google.com/toolbar/ie/index.html

tool bar-- I am learning from people like you.

A five-monther

I bite.

But your bite is much worse than your bark, Sandy.  :-)

Oh no. Does this mean I should be meaner with my corrections?

I wonder how many of the people who defend "poor" writing are also willing to accept sloppy work in other areas? Do they defend and patronize cooks who can't be bothered with checking meat temperatures? Doctors who don't want to waste time with continuing education? Teachers who didn't think college was necessary? Attorneys who don't care if they win or lose? Babysitters who think it's okay to beat the kids some of the time, if they happen to be in a bad mood that day?

It's one of those unfortunate misconceptions of the amateur.  Almost everyone can 'write', correct?  At least, that is what they think.  If I can put a few words together, I can be a writer on Gather (and many are, exactly in that category).  They convince themselves that spelling and grammar do not matter, nor style, nor references.  It's the emotional message, no matter how brief and undecipherable it may be, that is important. 

It is very difficult for people like yourself who really ARE published writers and who do try to uphold standards.  Believe me, I understand being a classical musician with years and years of training.  When someone picks up an instrument and starts playing around with it, you get conflicting urges to praise their effort and correct their mistakes. :-)

I think the kindest thing to do, in any situation, is deliver an honest mix of praising the effort and correcting mistakes.

I also think sites like Gather have delivered a great injustice to society by allowing the "anyone can write" attitude to prevail.

Don't stop posting because of the "grammar police". I agree with those above who said that criticism can be done in a gentle manner. We've all been victims of cruel comments but maybe we learn from those too.

Oh, and I write what I want and don't give a flying fig what anyone thinks!!!

The only time I've ever corrected someone's spelling is when they posted a comment calling ME stupid and misspelled words within the comment. Otherwise it's up to you to monitor your own spelling and grammar.

You were justified in what you did.

Here is a suggestion, when confronted with this behavior you may copy and paste this link as your rebuttal.

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f378/owlmirror/meanpeoplesuck.jpg

I'm with Sandy and Sheryl. I bite. I'm also a professional writer and editor. Sometimes I do correct people, but I usually do it privately.

I can't get to the message if I have to constantly remind myself, "Oh, he meant 'there', not 'their'." The care you take with your posts shows, and I simply do not read things that the author could not bother to proofread.

That said, I split an infinitive in my comment, an editorial no-no.

You corrected yourself!

I would appreciate being corrected privately.

Ann, the rule against splitting an infinitive is an 18th Century shibboleth. It came from the attempt to make English like Latin, a revered language at the time. Since infinitives in Latin are one word, they can't be split, therefore they shouldn't be split in English. A ridiculous idea on the face of it. It was promulgated by people who enjoy policing others. No respected usage guide includes that prohibition. Myadvice is to boldly go forward and split those infinitives.

Another result of the English-into-Latin vogue is the silly rule about not ending a sentence with a preposition. Someone (But NOT Churchill, though he usually gets the credit) called this rule "nonsense up with which I will not put."

What Charles said.

Well, Leo, I do agree with your post.  But, what I disagree with is your take on the person who left Gather due to the "constant attack on his writing skills. He no longer could suffer the abuse. He is dyslexic and, indeed, did not write very well..."

I know of whom you are speaking and he was AT BEST an a$$ to many people here.  I did correct him ONCE because he misspelled my name (Hidi, Hedi, Hiedy --- is it really that hard?  if so cut and paste it...) THREE different ways in the same response comment to me.  He tended to be an attack dog (if you agreed with him and he liked you no problems, he was loyal and didn't bite... if not, WATCH OUT).  And, after I corrected his misspellings of my name, yes he did inform me that he was dyslexic, but that did nothing to change my opinion of his behavior on Gather.  I was made fun of and riduculed on a post of his and no one there was "championiong" my cause.  No.  They all joined in the "fun", HIM included.  He wasn't "run out of town" by the Gather Grammar Police, he was called on the carpet (by several people other than me) for his behavior and all he could say was, "give me a break, I'm dyslexic."  Being dyslexic is a learning/writing disability, not a personality disorder that causes you to be mean to other people, so sorry, that excuse doesn't absolve his culpability and the responsibility he shared in his own experience on Gather.  He was largely responsible for the grief he received here, and hardly any of it was due to his disability, but rather how he treated others. 

Are any of us perfect?  No...  There are all things we can be corrected on.  I think the people doing the correcting can do so in a pleasant way, but I also think the people being corrected can be a little less thin-skinned as well.  I've been on both ends of the issue (both giving and receiving correction) and I think people take things a little too personally at times.

Leo, don't get me wrong.  I like you.  I am not attacking YOU in this comment.  But, I don't want it to seem like this person was completely innocent and a bunch of us were sitting around taunting him.  He dished it out plenty well... I guess he just didn't like it back.  So, anway... sorry your feelings were hurt recently... that sucks.  My question is how did you handle your own situation?  Your response to your own situation is what will reveal your character... the other person who did the hurting will have to answer for his/her part!

My comment is being ignored... oh well... I guess everyone would rather live in a world where the "victims" are only "victims" of the big, bad, ugly people... Oh well... I guess I could have gone with the usual "how dare they treat him like that" but alas, I know the history and the back story... and I'm not good at ignoring truth.

By the way... did you know you had a few misspellings in your title? (LOL)

missspellling nevious is well.

Your title cracks me up.  I'm nervious too!

As an English teacher, I marked nervious countless times.

How sad somebody left because of mean people.  There will always be mean people, everywhere.  I hope he comes back.

(don't you leave or we'll track you down - muah ha ha !!!)

Peter has spoken and must be obeyed!!!

Peter rules !

Ya know my brother is not only a teacher ( an English teacher) he is a coach and has awards for his teaching. i.e. teacher of the year or was it coach ?

Well anyway he is a great teacher and he isn't rude to those who make mistakes. ( unless it's his volleyball team ) I don't believe being a teacher or having a degree or lack of is an excuse to belittle.

Or yeah I almost forgot James the Professor of Business Law at CWU is also a relative and he too never belittles.

My father with too Masters and a B.A. was one strict mean son of a .... but he too never belittled.

I could go on cause the only thing I have to say is a true teacher doesn't teach well when all they can do is belittle the mistakes of others. Period !

Vivian - I'm wondering if your teachers examples are based on my comment above where I mentioned the 'teacher in me'?  I hope you did not glean from my comment that I would ever condone belittling someone, teacher or no. 

no I am just saying

Your not a bully are you ?

"I don't believe being a teacher or having a degree or lack of is an excuse to belittle."

Unless it's a volleyball player? How do you make that distinction? On your own, or because your brother does no wrong and he made it first?

A bully?  I've never been called a bully, and I don't think I am.  I do, however, stand up for myself and won't back down when I want to make a point or diagree with someone.  If anything, some people probably think of me as a snob (no, make that definitely), simply because I do have high standards.  But, I hold myself to them as well as others. 

Sandy, He's the Girls Volleyball coach for the high school in Grandview, Wa,. And it was a joke. John doing no wrong ? Boy that's funny. You would have to know him.

Sheryl, There are a few really mean people here but I don't think your one. However holding everyone to the same high standards is not realistic.

There's the key, Sheryl - "But, I hold myself to them as well as others."

This is a lesson I learned from one of my early bosses. She was a tyrant, by the most lenient of definition, and would probably face law suits in today's world. I did not like her much the first few years but as I matured, I noticed that she didn't expect anything of me that she didn't expect of herself. Today, I am grateful to her for helping develop my work ethics.

I think he is referring to people who are cruel for cruelties sake. Most of us don't mind being corrected if it isn't done  in a demeaning way

Regardless of the intention, no one forces another to leave because they can't accept correction.

The wording of my sentence is so ugly it makes me want to cry. Feel free to rip it up. Meanwhile, I'll try to correct it myself. Regardless of the critter's intention, no one forces another to leave. The person who leaves because he can't accept correction hurts himself more than the person who corrected his errors.

That is EXACTLY why you are one of my personal heroes, Sandy.  Just the fact that a less than elegant sentence brings you to tears and you offer it to slaughter, all the while spending time to re-write it. 

:-)

Thank you.

Anyone notice the high level of writing in these comments?

I did. I didn't take the time to divide them into poorly written versus carefully written, and determine which side those who support correction are on. Maybe someone else will.

Sometimes, when I'm sick or in pain, I forget to use spell check.  I'm getting better at it, but that's the way it is.  Tell me and I'll fix it.

I just do the best I can to make an understandable statement.  When I can't figure out what the heck someone is talking about I'm not going to read their stuff.

However,  one of those people came at me on another persons thread.  It was about my knowledge of the bible and ancient history.  I never claimed to be an expert on those things but there are some things I know.

What was really funny was, in her criticism she cited Roman philosophers who were really Greeks.  See I did something that she had probably never done, I read them when I was younger.

I wouldn't have even said anything if she hadn't been so snarky.

I'm featuring this on Gatherers' Gallery.  If someone doesn't care for your grammar, maybe you need new friends.

If there is a major mistake, the polite thing to do is to email the person and tell them privately.  To do otherwise if you're not in a teaching position is just rude and cruel for the sake of showing off one's own stupidity.

And I think it is more than a little stupid to think that someone is showing off if they correct another, or that anyone should waste time composing a private message because someone else might be too insecure to accept correction or advice in public. Internet web sites are open to people of all levels of maturity so each of us is responsible for knowing our maturity level and staying away if we aren't able to accept responses to what we post.

I told someone off on Gather the other day.  I like to feel that I did even that with some  class.

It is classless to correct someone in a pedantic or mean-spirited way.  If you cannot offer help in a genuinely helpful way, then don't help at all.  Nobody needs to know you're just a tiny bit smarter than someone else.

Kenn, spotting an error doesn't mean one person is smarter (a tiny bit, even) than another. Sometimes it is the opposite, and the person who is not quite as smart as the other spots the error.

When I joined Gather, it was basically for writers, and critiques were expected and appreciated.

If I see a common error in a post (such as "there" instead of "their"), I put my correction in the comments so others can benefit, not just the post writer. Otherwise, I have been ignoring what are probably typos. If I see the writer make an error more than once, I put the correction in a private message and hope they don't hate me. I mean well, and we all make mistakes...

Most of the people on here are ridiculous about being criticized.  Back when the women's movement was new we used to dive in and go for it.  I wasn't to be mean it was to make sure you were being clear about what you were saying so that your message came across clearly.

When I worked at 9to5, the director and co-director were brutal with each other about tv and radio interviews.  They were Bryn Mar women and thought that they knew all. One day I was tired of it and said "Is this the way we want our members to communicate with each other?"  Well no it wasn't?  "Well why do think it's acceptable for you to do it?"  Oh. . . .  Yeah baby, the working class woman wins again.

I try to do my best, but I never make any guarantees when it comes to grammar, usage, or spelling.  :)

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