Putting a Face on the 40 Million Uninsured

I'm one too - and I pay taxes, I pay bills, I work full-time, I'm college-educated. I'm a typical middle class American but I cannot afford health care.

Laine they sock my company with taxes.

Wow. Compassion Lori?? I'm impressed. Setting aside for a moment the millions who remain uninsured . . . and remembering, if possible, that they will postpone inexpensive, preventative medical care until it is VERY expensive, and sometimes fatal anyway . . . . there remain multiple thousands who die every year so that the people of this country (who pay more than any other country in the world) get healthcare VERY low on the world standards, with 36 industrialized countries spending less and covering every single citizen, doing better than us. With millions uninsured, multiple thousands dying, and 36 countries doing it better . . . it is arrogance and ignorance combined to think we are a world leader . . . we're not. I like my country to be the best at everything. We CAN do better!

Regards,
Doyle I <~~~~~

Lori - it's a problem, for sure. However, if people would look away from the government for answers I'm certain a solution could be found.

I've long supported a "coat tail" health insurance option. It's one whereby same, or similar industries with multiple company participants, in a given area band together to provide health care to their workers. Everyone knows that premiums go down as they are spread out over a larger and larger group.

I work for a company with 10K+ employees, and my premiums (for hubby and I) are still $190/mo. for health, dental, life, vision, and disability. Granted, they are amazing benefits, but still that's a lot of money.

You say you pay for day care, health insurance, etc. Have you ever thought about adding up the cost and seeing if you'd be better off as a stay-at-home mom?

Doyle LOL. I plan to expand on this more later today.

I'm also one. I thank God my children are grown and all have insurance. As an indepedent contractor, I simply can't afford the premiums.

Chandra I am not looking for the government to insure us but maybe a tax break so we could afford the premiums.

Bob I know how you feel.

Lori - I didn't say you were...but look how quickly Doyle showed up with his Utopian vision for health care.

Doyle, do a little research...find out the truth behind the hype of socialized medicine.

C A, I would LOVE to pay $190/month for health, dental, life, vision and disability.... Unfortunately, I am of child-bearing age and status, I also live in an affluent area which means my premiums are minimum of $350/month FOR HEALTH INSURANCE ONLY.

Chandra as far as that SAHM no I make enough to cover the expenses of working and these people are more than my coworkers we are also friends. Each and every one of us pours our hearts and soul into this business. It is like a big extended family.

Lainie try premiums of $860 a month...thats what my company is looking at paying. With the boss health and the preemie baby. It has been a nightmare to try and get affordable insurance for us.

Lainie - hey I think it's a bargain, myself, but it's a lot of money to some people. My benefits are one of the main reasons that my arse is not budging from this job. I'm retiring from here...barring unforeseen circumstances. :-)

Do a little research??? LMAO ! ! !

Ok, CA . . . you're right, our failed, pathetic excuse for privatized healthcare that profits by denying needed medical care . . . thousands dying, and millions uninsured is a MUCH better thing than saving both money AND lives . . . after all . . . medical - pharmaceutical industries get that great profit. Good thinking.

Regards,
Doyle I <~~~~~

If I joined my husband's insurance, Lori, I would be in a similar boat - $350/month for HEALTH ONLY, and I would have to pay for EVERY visit and EVERY prescription and EVERY test/lab, etc until I paid off the $5000 deductible.

Which ends up being $9200.00/year (if I actually used up to the $5000). But, that is WAY out of my budget.

Well, since mine just increased my health insurance for me alone is 489 bucks a month, roughly 20 percent of my bring home pay. I do not have dental insurance or life or disability because I cannot afford it. Oh and I also have a 1,500 deductible.

I think a lot of people who say they can't afford health insurance need a reality check. I know plenty of folks who are paying new car payments and mortgages that are more than they can afford but they're going without health insurance. That's just plain stupid. They want an employer or the goverment to pay their bills for them. They prefer to spend their money on luxuries instead.

I bought my car used and paid 1,000 for it 4 years ago. I rent a house in a neighborhood where my rent is about 1/2 of what everyone else is paying for their mortgages, I've been there for 6 1/2 years and my rent hasn't gone up one red cent because we do all the upkeep on the house.

What kills me is the people who bring children into this world and then cry because they can't afford to raise them. Don't have them if you can't afford them, I do not want to pay to raise your kids...get a dog like I did!

I went to see "Sicko" last week. I dont care how one feels about Michael Moore, the movie definitlely shows how backwards we are with health care in our nation. Talk to the Americans who have moved to other countries such as Canada, UK or France..they'll tell you the real truth, and how glad they dont have to worry about paying for health care anymore. They actually feel sorry for their relatives back here in the states!

I'm one of the 40 million. It's important to realize that many companies have opted out of the health care benefit. As one gets older, it is even more difficult to get benefits. I think that a single payer program is the way to go. Get the companies out of the business. They are making it difficult for people to get good coverage anyway. Those with insurance are getting wiped out with any catastrophic illness. Once they lose their job because of the illness - they can never be insured again due to the pre-existing condition. The problem is much deeper than the 40 million.

It's insanity Dan . . . and the Medic-phama-nazis will fight tooth and nail to keep those immoral profits regardless of how many die! And people will listen because they just don't know any better. They could save BOTH money and lives . . . but look, people . . . good people, like Moggy . . . just don't have a clue . . . they'll fight to keep paying more and causing more deaths so that others can profit.

"What kills me is the people who bring children into this world and then cry because they can't afford to raise them."
What about IF . . . just IF . . . you CAN and sometime within 20 years something changes in your life and then you can't?? You act like nobody worth a damn ever had a downturn during any decade in their life. So? If they do, what then? Leave the kid twisting in the wind? Not with MY vote you don't.

Regards,
Doyle I <~~~~~

Joe:
Absolutely right . . . and many companies cannot even afford to offer benefits at ALL anymore.

Regards,
Doyle I <~~~~~

"We pay their salaries with our hard earned money and they are not loyal to us..."
Because the lobbyist pay them MUCH more money than we do. Sorry about your situation Judy . . . one catastrophe can take away an entire lifetime of work and even saddle your children (if you have any) with massive debts . . . or could even end a life. And this is something we pay MORE for. Insane.

Regards,
Doyle I <~~~~~

I could be one of those 40 million, but can't afford not too. I own my home, have a little $$ in savings and won't run the risk of losing it. Therefore, we are paying $698 a month for medical insurance. My hubby is an employee of our local school district, the district ONLY contributes $140 a month toward our insurance.

Needless to say I'll be voting for the candidate who comes up with the best health care program in 2008.

well here we go again, people willing to trust the govt. to run something efficently?. I can't believe the amount of people willing to put their healthcare in the hands of a bunch of wind-bag politicians, who for sure will have a great private ins. policy for themselves, and never have to show up at some govt. clinic and wait in line. Do you think Hill and Bill will be standing in line with you-LOL! American ingenuity can solve this problem only if these elitist wind-bags butt- out. And by the way how about these phonies like Clinton, Teddy, Hagel, Lott, start paying for their own health care ins. why should we have to pay for their ins.cost.

I realized, as I began to compose an answer to Doyle's comments, that I really had an article in the making.

So I posted one on socialized medicine. And, Lori, I included a link to your excellent article here.

Thanks for posting. I look at basic health care a a human right. I was in Germany and told a German about our health care system where if you don't have insurance or the money up front you go with out. He replied "No that can't be, it's to inhumane!"

Keeping the theme of your article, I hope everyone saw the movie John Q. It was pretty realistic.

This problem can be solved along with a host of others, simply and profitably for everyone, doctors, patients, medical workers, as well as the drugists and hospitals.
Yes there is a win / win solution and it doesn't even involve taxes. (Well, actually it eliminates taxes altogether but that's another aspect of the solution.)

Please take the time (and pleasure) of reading "Invisible Hand", a novel of the near future that actually can be if we help it happen. It's fun to read and will give you a whole new perspective on most of today's problems. It's also free online at:

http://www.unc.edu/~mason/hand.html

or you can read it in "installments" here on Gather ay my page.

A recent cost/benefit study done in California found that state would save 9 billion dollars per year by instituting a single payer health insurance program operated by a state board. A similar study is about to be done in Arizona, under the auspices of an organization of Hospitals, Health Care Providers and individual medical doctors. early estimates are that Arizona residents could save over 3 billion a year, and provide coverage for temporary visitors to the state while doing it. I have seen early drafts of the proposed legislation setting this program up and find myself in support of the concept.
Besides providing medical care, it also provides tracking of outbreaks of disease. One of the recent examples of how it would save money and lives is the MRSA outbreak. Earlier detection of the problem would result from having a centralized health system. We need to get into the 21st century on medical care.

I am not down for free healthcare whatsoever. It turns into a mess, the healthcare that you get for free is not any such healthcare that I would want.

Doctors are paid less, remember, you get what you pay for. Besides who would want to be a doctor after knowing their 250,000 salary they were making has now dropped to 50. Would you stay a doctor? No, suddenly Veterinarians would pop up all over the country. I DO NOT want to pay more taxes on top of the high healthcare that I already have. Because sure, they'd offer free healthcare and raise our taxes, but guess what, I am not going to use the free physicians they offer nor want to wait in month long lines to use those said physicians. So I am still going to have to pay for GOOD healthcare, and now you've just raised my taxes. So I am going to be selfish here and say NO! I don't want to go to the same doctor a crack head ridden with disease goes to, nor would I want my innocent child/ren going there either. Ehhh NO!

I am a single mother with a 13 year old daughter and I pay $300.00 a month just for insurance, this does not include medicine, or co-pays or even anything above or over what our insurance company does not pay. (Which I am sure a lot of you know, is a LOT!) This is life, I hate it, and mostly that so much of my check goes to cover the costs to insure my small family, but guess what, its part of what makes me a good mother. Ensuring that you take care of the children that you have brought into this world, it is your responsibility as a caregiver of any sort. If you can't do it, don't have them! I refuse to continue to pay for your mistakes! It really pisses me off, that I make semi decent money and so much of it goes to Medicare, someone else's S.S. & taxes, and now you want me to pay for more.. KissMyMFArse! And I am still struggling to pay my bills & you want free, and you want me to pay more.. Come close, closer, *SLAP* snap the fu** out of it! Is not happening!

I do believe that if you are offering any sort of service (Business Owner) to the community that it is only fair to offer healthcare to your employees. I think they should change the law and demand that every business with more than 1 employee (Owner) should offer and pay a part of employee healthcare. Maybe salaries change a little to incorporate the cost of healthcare in your work place, but if you can capitalize markets flashing your wonderful service, and you can't take care of your employees, something is wrong with this picture. And it should be stopped! Every business should offer healthcare, no matter what. End of story! And guess what, it might be high and it might hurt your pay check to get it, it hurts mine, but you do it, and you sacrifice for those you love.

They are after all making money on the community; they should be taking care of their employees and their families as well. It seems like a logical way to go after healthcare, but free, come on. This is not Canada, no matter how much you envision it being. We can't keep Social Security in line, or Medicaid for the elderly and you think they will be able to organize free healthcare United? Oh god... I can see the monster mess. NO NO & NO!

Any other excuses, why you need free healthcare? *I am not including the elderly or the truly handicap in this* these circumstances need to be altered. There are extreme circumstances and situations that need to be addressed separately. But if you really research and look into MOST areas, you will find that there are a lot of programs for the TRULY sick that can not afford all of their bills. The elderly shouldn't have to worry if there going to get good service or not. Nor should the handicap, both parties have earned Free healthcare. If you do not fit in these categories, guess what, find a way to make more money, change jobs, fight for the rights of insurance at your job, but don't think I am going to pay for your healthcare.

I am liberal on most issues, but giving away healthcare is never free, all you're doing is saddling me with more taxes on all of the stuff I have to buy for my family. Id vote republican before Id vote for free healthcare. I am trying to climb out of the shitter, not back into someone else's!

Lori, congrats on the feature!

Mel, you are dangerously close to tipping over to the dark side - aka becoming a conservative.

I am one of the 40 million who don't have health insurance. The cost to cover my and my family is $329 every paycheck (get paid every other week). That is over half of my check. My husband is about the same. The deductibles are $2000. I have keet track of all the medical expenses for the last year and we never even came close to the deductible.

I have dental insurance through my company, that is only $30 a paycheck.

Excellent article, Lori. Too often the conservatives use the argument that many people who are uninsured are uninsured by choice, like they have money to afford private insurance but choose to spend it on all sorts of luxuries and drugs.

My husband and a partner recently started a business - I work for them. When we were setting it up we checked all around for health coverage. There is a group of small businesses in our state that provides access health care insurance for people like us (please note this CA) and they are supposed to make it easier and cheaper for folks like us. They don't - it was very expensive. So, we finally ended up finding an independent insurer who would cover us for something we could afford, but with a really basic plan - the only one we could afford for the business - that doesn't cover dental or vision - only the basic healthcare.

So, the "groups" approach, although it sounds really nice, isn't really affordable.

Sheryl - nothing is affordable, or workable, in its present state. My argument is not to throw the baby out with the bath water, and be very, very, careful of what you mandate your government to do on your behalf.

Great article, Lori. 10

There are lots of good comments here, and some serious rants by people who get p'd off at the idea of universal health care; Mel B. especially.

One of the things that really bothers me about our current health insurance system is that companies bring in customers by saying they will cover medical expenses, then deny paying claims in order to maintain their profits, and raise premiums or drop people for placing claims. It's like a landlord evicting you for spending to much time in the apartment you are paying for.

Unfortunately, many who CAN afford insurance are simply not getting it. They are just depending on others to pay for their health costs. Hospitals are required to treat all patients whether that patient can pay or not, it is federal law. If you go to the hospital with an emergency you'll be treated and others will pay the bill for you when their health care costs are raised to make up the difference. I think a good start would be requiring anyone who cann afford health care to get it, that would reduce the number of uninsured by a sizable amount.

CA - actually, Medicare is quite successful, at least until Bush started sticking his nose into the prescription side of things. I know many folks who are on it and are quite happy with what is covered and how it is administered.

Mel-"Doctors are paid less, remember you get what you pay for" That's not necessarily the case. They inteviwed a G.P. in England and he made about $100,000 a year, drove a brand new sports car, and lived in a very nice house! He said many Dr.'s made much more than him. They actually earn more money and get bonuses for the more healthy their patients get. ( credit for those who stop smoking lose weight, etc) What an idea!

I heard on NPR this morning the results of a new study of top countries (Canada, England and Germany included) and their citizen's satisfaction with their health care. All are dissatisfied, with the US being moreso than the others, and paying much more for the health care we receive.
That is a preface to my self-employed, insurance-poor life. I pay $1308 per quarter for my health (not dental) insurance, and a yearly fee of $260 for that privilege - for a total of over $5200! That doesn't include $20 copays and prescription deductibles.
BUT - without it I'm one health emergency from living on the street. What is a person to do? I live a very simple, but insured, life.

Hey Lori - move out of the sticks and enjoy what populated societies have to offer: close proximity to health care, higher wages, better insurance. Please don't ask me to pay for your sorry butt when you choose to live in the middle of nowhere.

I am uninsured, with over $100,000 in medical bills. I was laid off my job in April where I paid $28.00 per week for Health Insurance. It paid for my heart attack in March, got laid off 3 weeks later. I had to have emergency surgery in July. I go through PPA for some meds. Wal Mart's $4.00 prescriptions for the rest, AND I have to have more surgery. I do not qualify for medicaid or SSI. I am so upset over this. I don't want to be in debt and I am embarrassed that I can't pay.

Good One Don H. . . . we all know no people in cities are uninsured. Incidentally, you're already paying for all the uninsured people by way of higher premiums . . . you just have to pay a lot more because they don't seek help until absolutely necessary when it costs WAY more and has less chance of success. So naturally, rather than pay less and save lives . . . you'll make nasty quips like that one. A true sign of an unitelligent person is the inability to see that any government should protect the health and well being of its own citizens. But to be worried about your increase in savings but look the other way as corporate welfare is doled out . . . I sense an issue with priorities that has nothing to do with actual cost . . .

Regards,
Doyle I <~~~~~

"I don't want to go to the same doctor a crack head ridden with disease goes to, nor would I want my innocent child/ren going there either. Ehhh NO! "


Yeck... that is an ugly reality. If healthcare is free, then all the druggies would come to the same doctor as you -- actually, they would likely out number you becuase of their self inflicted health problems. No thanks! Good point, Mel!

"If you go to the hospital with an emergency you'll be treated and others will pay the bill for you when their health care costs are raised to make up the difference." - Aaron P.

Aaron, that is not entirely true. If I went to the ER, I would be treated, yes.... BUT, I would also receive all the bills. They are not going to treat me and then bill you. We have ALWAYS received the bills. Then, when you can't pay the bills, they call the collection agency.

Don H. : "close proximity to health care, higher wages, better insurance."

I live just outside of Chicago, 17 miles from the loop, to be exact. Because of this, I pay HIGHER premiums because of my zip code. So, cut the BS. While we may be closer to health care and get higher wages, the insurance is the same and our costs are higher as well.

Doyle - the percent of uninsured/underpaid is less than it is in rural areas. Get a brain and go look at the average salary and job opportunites in any small town and compare to a thriving city.

I feel for those who are not insured. For most of my life, I was one of those people. But no one is entitled to anything. What happened to personal responsibility? What happened to bare minimums? The generations before us never believed that they deserved anything or were entitled to anything. They never wanted a hand out. Nobody deserves anything, besides a chance to succeed.

Aaron,

Think about that for a bit! How would you like to own a business and have the government "require" that everyone purchase your product? And just who would that best serve? I know I'd love it and it would serve me greatly!

If we are to the point of the government requiring purchase of something, it's time for the government to sell it to us at cost! That's what is done with Medicare and should be done, on a nation wide basis, with all health insurance. To mandate profits to corporations is wrong, unethical, and demeaning to those who must purchase these slippery "products."

Mel,

You obviously have a different outlook than I. No one is asking for "free" health care. No one is proposing "free" health care. Far from it! What we want is a government run, not for profit, insurance system. Sure, it can be private but they won't because of the not for profit clause. Private industry has had decades to come up with something better and have only proven themselves greedy and unworthy of the public trust as stewards of our health care! It's time for a change.

I would point out that national health care is going to happen. Railing against it is not going to change the need that exists. It will happen. So it's time to start discussing the better ways of providing this type of service for the American people rather than simply saying it's bad!

My company pays over $2000 a week in federal and state taxes....why cant we get a tax break so we can have the personal responsibility to insure the workers.

James, it is bad. I do not want politicians in charge of my healthcare. It will not happen if socilaist like Clinton do not get elected. James do you think the eliteist like the Clinton's will be showing up at their local govt. clinic. And by the way should'nt the rich like Clinton, be paying for their own health ins. and not on the backs of the over-taxed, tax- payers.

Democrats and Republicans are chained to each other in this debate.

We are one entity with two dominating personalities trying to decide which way to go around an obstacle. One tugs left, the other tugs right. As a result we cannot move beyond the obstacle and instead keep bumping into it.

Going left may be worse than going right, or vice versa. But neither way is as bad as continuing to bang your head on the obstacle indefinitely because you are too proud or too stupid to concede.

"...why cant we get a tax break"

You can. Vote republican. If you vote for Dems, you get the Rangel plan which raises the rate of your 'rich' business.

Vote republican and if your RICH you can get a tax break..just ask Bush!

Think about it..post office-government run; fire dept. same way; police dept. ditto, and I could go on & on, all for the public good. Nobody objects to these being govt. run, why should health care be any different!?

Don we HAVE a repub in there and still no tax break.

Thanks, Lori, for reminding some people that there's been a whole bunch of talk over the past 7 years and not much action. The Dems may not be able to break through Bush's vetoing right at the moment, but it should have been VERY easy for the Republican majority Congress and Bush to get SOMETHING done over the previous 6 years when they held all the cards.

Tax breaks for anybody but the super rich? No. And, they had the absolute nerve to sell those tax breaks to the regular people as if they were going to help them at all - and those people bought their BS.

Enforcement of existing immigration law or beneficial modifications to the law? No. They just let the problem grow and grow out of proportion without doing a thing.

Enforcement of border and port security? No. If we were under such eminent danger of attacks, then wouldn't our OWN front doors be the first ones to secure?

I just have to laugh when Republicans start yelling about how little the Dems do and how much the Republicans do for us. And how the government contributing to the medical expenses of those who cannot afford to pay them is going to bring down our country. It's like pissing into the ocean, guys.

"Doyle - the percent of uninsured/underpaid is less than it is in rural areas. "

Yeah, but why? The disparities in coverage are associated with differences in
employment patterns and structures, with more rural residents
being self-employed or employed by small firms that are less likely
to provide insurance to employees (Frenzen 1993; Larson and Hill
2005). Giving the advice that people should leave their jobs and move to the big city is not likely to help them get coverage, now is it?

"Get a brain and go look at the average salary and job opportunites in any small town and compare to a thriving city. "
Get a brain? Big talk from a supercilious, insulting little punk who can't understand the most simple concepts on this topic but remains arrogantly sure of his own thinking in spite of the blatantly obvious fallacies inherent in them! No shit there's a higher salary expected. Goes hand in hand with the higher bills that also exist. Why don't you get up off your head and tell me the cost of living in the city versus the rural cost of living?

You need to understand that job opportunities do not translate to medical insurance. Many jobs are offered by employers who CANNOT afford to cover their workers and stay competitive. Some people can't afford to pay the premiums even if they ARE working. And those that DO will pay for those that don't!

Lainie's right. They get the bills when they're uninsured. They get sued and they pay. Catastrophic medical issues will bankrupt them and it's the leading cause of bankruptcies here . . . what cannot be collected from the estates of the dead (who could not afford or get health coverage) is being paid for anyway by those who HAVE coverage.

The horrible infant mortality rate, not to mention the 30% admin fees and the deaths of thousands aren't enough to convince you the system is immoral, unethical and ending. It's not a question anymore. Watching so many countries do so much more with so much less isn't why it's ending. Watching thousands die isn't ending it either. It's ending because it cannot continue fiscally. Either before or after the country goes bankrupt . . . we'll see it gone!

Regards,
Doyle I <~~~~~

Lori,

Even if they give a tax cut like you mention, they still have to keep enough taxes to run the government, military, etc. So lets suppose they give you a 20% tax break. That would be $400 out of your $2,000. $400 is a drop in the bucket against the cost of insurance paid by you for yourselves and your employees.

On the other hand, if it were all rolled into one payer and spread over the entire population to pay in, you would be in the same position in business as every other competitor. You would all be paying and collecting the same. It's going to happen regardless who dislikes it, sooner or later. The question is how many people are going to have to suffer or die before this takes place?

And in the poorer category of people, how much taxes do they pay? Most do not pay anywhere enough to cover the cost of individual insurance.

You say you are paying $2,000 a week on federal and state taxes, how much of that is what you have withheld from the employees earnings? You would have to deduct that from the $2,000 before beginning to find what is available to you. If, in fact, you are paying $2,000 taxes on your profit/earnings, then you shouldn't have any problems finding health care! Just because you send it to the government doesn't mean it is necessarily yours. I've been an employer and I know that payroll taxes hurt but I know they come from the payroll itself. The exception to that is the portion, over and above the employees portion, that you must contribute to Social Security and that, again, is not one that can be considered in your tax cut.

By the way Lori, great article!

We are not at this time collecting enough in taxes to pay for the current expenses of government and make regular payments on our long term indebtedness. Until we are in that position, the conservative thing to do is forget about self serving, pandering tax breaks and get on with solving the problems facing our government.

It is unethical, pandering, irresponsible, misguided and simply wrong to give out tax breaks when our outgo exceeds our income. Ending the mess in Iraq would help to the tune of 12 Billion dollars a month! This could probably be enhanced by puling in our horns and reducing our commitments in other parts of the world as Ron Paul recommends. I don't believe for a minute that Libertarianism can work to govern in our 300 million population with today's complexity but I do agree with him on this one!

James I am not going to argue with you. Very valid points. That was just a off the top of my head suggestion.

One thing that's always confused me is the term "socialized medicine." People always say it as though it closes debate. You've all heard it, somebody says "Senator Foghorn's program is just socialized medicine with a bow on it." and we're supposed to react as though they'd said "cholera" or "nuclear winter."

I'm not excited by government bureaucracy. I've read my share of Russian novels. I suppose it's possible but can you believe government can come up with something worse than what we have now? Let's face it. They're lazy. To make things worse would require a lot of planning and effort that nobody has the energy to do.

Some of you people are very lucky. You can afford to pay for health insurance even though it is very expensive but what about people who are so sick that they can't work at all. My sister has severe arthritis in both hips. They have to be replaced but that can''t be done because she has colon cancer. She can't walk, she can't sit for more than 40 minutes at a time. She can't get into bed alone, can't bathe alone, she cannot survive without me helping her 24/7. Her chemo treatments cost at least $20,000 a month. Even if she had insurance how do you pay 20% of that every month and 20% for PET Scans, biopsies and everything else she has to do.

People who do not agree with national health care do not seem to understand that there are people who live in this country cannot afford any health care coverage at all!

National Health care may not be the best but it is better than NOTHING!

In a strange way, my sister and I are lucky. We have no money. I can barely pay bills and I don't mean car loans or mortgages, I mean electricity, gas, and rent. We're lucky because we get Medicaid and they pay for all of my sister's medical bills. What would we do without it? My sister would have died a few months ago if we had to pay what her meds cost.

You lucky ones, think fast and hard about how something really bad can hit you - out of the blue - from nowhere.

Yes, it is up to the government to help all of its citizens with health care especially when the government brags that it is the best in the world.

Sharon,

You have expressed mot eloquently the problems existing in our current health care system. I've been there before and am grateful that I do have insurance now! I hope your sister improves and is able to get the care she needs. My best wishes to both of you!

Lori,

I appreciate your view point and your expressing your views here! Though we differ in views, both are valid views and I respect yours as well as my own.

I work in retail management and the company that I work for, as is true with most retailers, only hires part time employees in order to avoid paying benifits such as health insurance. However our company pays mega bucks to sponsor a Bush Series NASCAR driver. Hmmmm......

Lori, I have my TV on in front of me as I am surfing through Gather. I thought it was so ironic that I clicked onto your article just as the ad for Michael Moore's sicko came on the TV! I have not always agreed with MM's view on some things but he is dead on with the expose of the health care industry. They are so driven by profit that their margins are close to those of another evil empire known as the oil companies. It's a darn shame that both of these industries and also many others like them and than also many of our politicians throw profit in front of the good of the people. Kids and adults are dying or at the very least becoming very ill because of the fact that they do not have access to good health care. Doctor's are handcuffed in a lot of ways in what they can do to help people because these HMO's are dictating policy to them also. Not to mention another profit making machine known as the insurance industry that continues to raise rates that make it so difficult for a doctor to just survive and be able to concentrate on helping people instead of worrying about rates and the fact that if they will sometimes take a less risky and sometimes less beneficial route to treating a patient because they are afraid of being sued!

I actually took a slightly lesser paying job a while back when I changed companies because the health plan they offered was cheaper and better all around. So when you factor that in the job I took is actually worth more! C.A here talks a good game about the evils of socialized medicine but I wonder if that evil or at least some variation of a form of "socialized" medicine is really in fact much less evil than no medicine at all!

Timothy I hear you on the retail industry. The company I previously worked for was a vendor for Wal-Mart and a few similar retailers.The way that they "screwed" their employees out of at least even basic coverage is pathetic. Yet they make a big deal out of their $4.00 prescripitions! I think that most people would be willing to pay a bit more for those prescripitions (at leastthose that could afford to) if it in the end helped the Wal-Mart workers get better medical coverage for themselves and their children. I think what most people don't realize is that we actually end up paying more anyway in tax dollars to subsidize health coverage for these uncovered or undercovered people and also we pay higher hospital bills because of the amounts that the hospitals write off for people that can't pay and also for the amounts that they take in discount from the insurance company payments. People always complain about hospital bills and how outrageously high they are. I think that hospitals charge so high because they want to make a decent amount after the insurance companies take their contractual discounts. The crazy part about that is that the insurance companies that have billions of dollars pay discounted rates that are accepted as payment in full by the hospitals but an uninsured person is billed at a full rate and is expected to find some way to pay it!!

Crazy world we are living in!!

Thank God my hubby is an Assistant Teacher in the County system our health insurance is almost free, we pay no co pays and we have Full Dental, vision, and do not need referrals for specialists, the only thing we put out of pocket is $10 per prescrip. I can not imagine how anyone gets by!!!!!!! Realixe though that the pay sucks as he only gets 18,000 a year as an AD but we have to do this as we need the benefits which are more than his salary when added up ( You see my adult daughter is even covered and she is disabled and the Dr visits are $1,000 a week.

"post office-government run; fire dept. same way; police dept. ditto, and I could go on & on, all for the public good. Nobody objects to these being govt. run, why should health care be any different!?"

Ever notice how the police never actually prevent crime, and did you ever call the police AFTER a crime and notice nothing is done (short of murder being committed). Firemen... yes, they do a great job, but they also TEAR your place to pieces in the process. ANd the Post Office... too slow.

I would not hold any of those agencies up as comparisons to the health industry.

"Get a brain? Big talk from a supercilious...."

Ah, shut yer piehole Daffy Duck.

"Ever notice how the police never actually prevent crime, and did you ever call the police AFTER a crime and notice nothing is done (short of murder being committed). Firemen... yes, they do a great job, but they also TEAR your place to pieces in the process. ANd the Post Office... too slow."
-DON H.

So what do you suggest should be done about the police? Privatize them so that there's a cop sitting on every other street looking to give you a ticket? Do you really think that if Firefighters were privatized that they would then not tear your place to pieces?

" I am not down for free healthcare whatsoever. It turns into a mess, the healthcare that you get for free is not any such healthcare that I would want."
-MEL B.

Why does it turn into a mess? Who says we have to exactly copy anyone else's system. No, we need to pick and choose from the good parts of other systems while also coming up with our own ideas. We can come up with a system that is better than anyone else's in the world (we are the best nation in the world according to many).

"Doctors are paid less"
--MEL B.

Who says this has to be the case?

"This is life, I hate it, and mostly that so much of my check goes to cover the costs to insure my small family, but guess what, its part of what makes me a good mother."
--MEL B.

Dear God, there are so many things wrong with this paragraph you wrote. I'll start with this. You say you make decent money, so I'll estimate that means around $60,000 and that you pay $300 a month for insurance (or $3600 a year) So I hope you realize that if we did move to a universal health care system you would no longer have those costs. Currently, you pay 6% of your income towards your health insurance, so there would have to be at least a 6% increase in your taxes for this new health care system before it would even cost you any more. I'll be the first to say that I do not know yet how much of a tax increase it would take for our universal health care system, but I cannot see it raising taxes by that much. Look at the tax rates around the world; what a lot of people do not realize is that Canada's tax percentages are lower than ours.
But secondly, I would say that, no, this is not simply the way life is. It only is if you accept it to be. Yes I have complete respect for you for working hard and paying for your health care and for your family's. You are a good mother by all accounts. But when your children are looking back, and your children's children and so on, do you think they would be happier with you if they knew you worked hard to pay for their expensive health insurance, but fought to keep it the same way so they would also have to go through the same, or if you worked hard to pay for their insurance, but realized that there had to be a better way and fought to have a new health care system put in place that would care for them and their children and all people's children? I'm not going to put words in your mouth, but its something I hope you are thinking about.

"I do believe that if you are offering any sort of service (Business Owner) to the community that it is only fair to offer healthcare to your employees. I think they should change the law and demand that every business with more than 1 employee (Owner) should offer and pay a part of employee healthcare."
-MEL B.

I completely understand your thinking on this, but I disagree with it. Forcing all companies to do this saddles them with high costs, making American companies even less able to compete with global competitors. This will hurt our economy and so will hurt us all in one way or another. If our companies can be free of these costs, as they would be under a universal health care system, they will be able to do much better and that, on the whole, is better for our country.

Mel, your children are insured, but say, God forbid, that one gets cancer. Your child survives, lives to 25 and suddenly has to find his/her own insurance. Because of this pre existing condition (aka a person who needs health insurance more than most people) will now either be uninsurable or the cost will be crazy. Or what if you get some life threatening health problem, but when you go to see a doctor, after he comes back into the room from talking to your insurance company worker who has no medical expertise whatsoever, he tells you they will not be covering you for that condition. Remember that just because you have health insurance in this current system, does not mean you will be covered.

Costs will certainly need to be cut and I have a few places we can start. First, we can go ahead and take out the overall 30 some percent of our healthcare costs that goes SOLELY towards profit. Next, we need to completely outlaw ANY prescription medication commercials or advertisements. Pharmaceutical companies spend billions of wasted money on these every year. Firstly, there is absolutely no place for these as DOCTORS are who should be telling you what medication you need. Secondly, these advertisements actually raise the cost of healthcare in this country because they make people think they are sick when they really are not, by listing generic symptoms.

I am not yet an expert on this YET, so I can't claim to have all the answers. But if there is one thing I ask everyone to take from my comments, it is to please move the debate over our universal health care system from "For it or against it" to "Lets see if we can find a way to make it work." Certainly this will be more productive than simply saying, "Socialized medicine is a nightmare and there is no way it can work" without REALLY knowing whether it can or not.

Excellent article, Lori. The politicians need to see faces, not just the statistics they play around with and twist and bend to suit their own political needs.

i'm also one of "those people" who has no health insurance. and i am sixty years old!! i work, but alas i work for myself. when i worked for a company with which i didn't agree, i had pricey but crappy health coverage. since i've gone out on my own and work freelance, i am unable to afford health insurance -- because i have pre-existing conditions. in other words, i've been living on this planet for 60 years, who wouldn't have "pre-existing condtions"? i have a master's degree and years of good experience, yet i cannot afford basic health insurance. if i die of anything at this point, it'll be from lack of coverage.

I am SO happy I left the USN by way of the US Navy Hospital in Philadelphia. While it was a rough experience at the time, I now have all my medical needs tended to by the local VA hospitals & clinics, and even a couple of the military ones.
I never would have though that getting my butt half blown off could've turned out to be a GOOD thing.
Kind of a sorry commentary on the way the US takes care of its "regular" citizens though, don't ya think?

It's very frightening. My husband has owned/operated a small business for decades and it costs us a fortune for health insurance. It's a travesty in this country!!

I don't have insurance, as I am not a "full time" employee, and have managed for some fifteen years this way. I don't have small children, thank goodness, and $200 a month is more than I want to pay--even if I could get insurance for that. I have not paid a doctor $200 in the last five years. I think insurance is a racket, a license to steal, which makes health care too expensive and drives up drug prices.

I'm on the don't-get-sick plan, which so far, works pretty well. I guess if I get sick i will just have to figure it out then. I had to pay all the hospital expense about 20 years ago when I was in for depression-- @#$!@#$ hmo would not pay it. So, you do what you have to do.

YES, 40 million of us who work every day--and I work for the state of SC!

There is a Bill pending in Congress. It is HR 676, introduced by Dennis Kucinich. It is a single payer universal health care for everyone. No deductables or copays and its already paid for. Check it out www.kucinich.us.. There should not be profit in health care. It is a right, same as police protection. A well laid out plan......CHECK IT OUT!

Don,

If the police never prevent crime then there is no reason to have them. So lets get rid of them and no more people will violate the law, will they? Based on your statement, of course. Personally, I think that without police, crime would increase exponentially. An officer cannot arrest anyone until they have done something wrong, that is true. Would you have it any other way?

The post office moves more mail, faster and more accurately, than any other postal system in the world and does it for lower rates!

Sorry about the mess that the Fire department leaves! but you're a tough guy, you can handle it. Fire departments also provide ambulance and paramedic services, how would you go about knocking them?

This subject can be so controversial. All good insurance is very high for those on limited incomes. If something is 25-30% or more of the household income, that's unaffordable.
The facts are that one has ~40% chance of dying from cancer, heart attack and car accidents if uninsured.
One hospitilization can wreck a family's finances for a lifetime.
Hospitals don't have to do anything but keep you alive and stabilize you if you lack proof of ability to pay.
Even if you are wealthy and pay your own medical bills. If you show up unconscious after an accident without proof of insurance, you are treated as an uninsured.

Section 125 plans are available to all businesses with over 5 employees with over a year on job. The program discounts taxes off of medical and life insurance payments. The owner pays nothing and as a matter of fact makes money by paying less payroll taxes. It makes everybody happy and provides about 25% off of insurance payments.
Talk to your employer about the plan.

What about a mix of solutions? Free state supported clinics near areas of low income. Persons can pay their own private doctor if they want. State assist to qualifying individuals and families. Increased low income child health insurance funding. Place caps on medical charges. Place caps on insurance company profits. Transfer the savings from the more numerous insured system to lower insurance costs for all.
Retain free choice and competition in insurance market.

marty

I hate to burst anyone's bubble, but as wonderful as socialized medicine sounds, it will be more detrimental to the extremely ill & the elderly than you could ever imagine. Socialized medicine only works for those with money, because they can by-pass the non-working system by paying cash for their medical help. What happens (based on friends and relatives living in Great Britain) is that the doctors are given a low quota to fill monthly, usually filled by the likelihood of low cost results (ex. sore throats, minor lacerations, broken bones, etc.) These lower-paid-than-American doctors also receive bonus checks for not going over and/or keeping lower than the government issued quota. If you believe you have been miss-diagnosed, you are welcome to go to another doctor. Unfortunately, the new doctor will not cause any ruffles in the system, and will concur with the original diagnosis, UNLESS you decide to pay cash, then it seems they can properly diagnose and treat your illness.
The hospitals have wards for those who pay, and those who don't. Guess who gets proper care!
Don't think that this will not happen here when WE have socialized medicine. But don't worry, it will take the government a few years to realize that there can never be enough money to heal the scores of sick and injured, so if you're one of the lucky, you will get there first!
Thoughts of a socialized medical system.
*Elderly are expendable: they are going to die soon anyway, so why waste resources on them.
*Incurable diseases: why waste money extending life that will be gone soon.

Now don't get me wrong, I believe we really need and should have free medicine. But it will be paid for by us in the end, think TAXES. What really needs to be done to make this work, is to:
*eat healthy, go organic when possible. Eliminate unhealthy boxed foods.
*exercise regularly, especially in school systems (teach them early).
*recycle everything.
*reduce pollutants drastically. Solar & wind technology will be cheaper & cleaner once
people start using it. Make it mandatory for new buildings.
*keep big corporations from destroying our forests and polluting our waters. What do we
drink when the water is gone?
*Screen people regularly for the most common diseases. Early detection means longer life.
*find a way to reduce the cost for medicine (good luck). This is a catch-22, private industry
has the money to create new medicine, only because they will reap the profits the new
medicine will bring. Money the government will not have.


Eileen

"There should not be profit in health care."

I'll bet you'd love if someone said that about the industry you worked in.

"There should not be profit in food."
There should not be profit in clothing."
There should not be profit in housing."

After all, we definitely need those things as well!

Do you know that people are loosing their homes and property every day to these for- profit health insurance racketeers. Is there any humanity in this? Some people call themselves christian......while counting their money (greed). Lets do away with police protection, libraries, fire department, social security and education. Then the corporations can completely control the world. Our present day constitutional values are slipping away further every day by this present administration.

No one reasonably expects free health care. And the medical advances available to the well off in this country are certainly a mark of what well-financed health care can produce. But somehow the wealth of a few, and their talking points about socialism, have skewed the argument. They talk about how people want to come here for treatment, because of the quality of care, and the ability to avoid long waits for treatment they would have to suffer in their countries due to "socialized" medicine. But the quality care they come for is available only to the wealthy here and those fewer with union-funded care or who work for government. In San Diego County recently the county, which provides no fire protection service, was benefited by private fire protection companies who contracted with wealthy individuals to protect their homes. That's what we have in health care.

The US no longer has the highest longevity, lowest infant mortality, healthiest, tallest population in the world. We have surrendered those rankings to better run countries with more effective health care systems. None of the main proposals for health care systems here involve government provided medical services. They do involve government in the financing of, and payment for, privately provided care. And taxes to cover the costs associated with the mandatory provision of financing of care for those otherwise unable to pay. In addition to improving our overall health (likely) it would enable our corporations to compete in overhead with all of the companies from countries that do provide similar care. No longer would GM (e.g.)have to price its products to cover its (union-provided)medical coverage that Toyota (e.g.) or V.W. (e.g.) don't 'cuse its provided by the Japanese and German govts.

john o.,

Very well stated! Thank you!

Eileen,

So what you're saying is that we cannot provide health care for everyone so we should continue with the bankrupt and corrupt system where it is rationed by money?

I don't believe that we are that short of facilities or staffing that everyone cannot be cared for. While I'm not proposing this, if the government gave every low income person adequate money to pay for whatever care they wanted and they all started showing up at clinics and hospitals throughout the country, your statement implies that everyone would have to take turns going without service because there is not enough to go around. Correct? Or would money greasing the pot suddenly multiply the providers of such services, along with attendant equipment, facilities and drugs?

If that is your view consider how much it might reduce demand if everyone got the care they needed before it became worse and required more extensive care.

Bear in mind that many other industrialized nations have lived with the "horrors of socialized medicine" for many years and don't seem to see the vast and wonderful advantages of changing to a greed centered system such as is "enjoyed" in the United States.

The fear of socialized medicine has been promulgated by the insurance industry in this country for many years. They are the ones with reason to fear socialized medicine. You can point to problems in these systems and some similar problem can be pointed to in our own system.

Someone above mentioned that "housing, clothing and food" might be considered in the same light. None of these has the potential to bankrupt a family because of one meal, on shirt or one night's lodging. And these are the things that people do pay on a regular basis if they have any income. Try paying for a heart attack on a $10 per hour job!

Hi! I'm an independent insurance agent and I'll tell you who some of the uninsured are. One is the guy who would rather buy a boat than protect his family. A whole bunch are still waiting since the first time around for the Clintons to GIVE it to them for free. She almost put me out of business. A whole bunch of others don't understand that they can get it cheaper from me than from their employer if he requires them to pay under his group plan. And on and on. You wouldn't believe the excuses I get from folks who would rather spend their money on a vacation than on protecting their family!

Yes, you can get insurance through an independent agent cheaper, but what about for people like me who are graduate students/students/poor? When you have to choose between food & insurance, then let me know what you decide on :( I had health insurance when I had a job, prior to going back to school, I can't even afford the health insurance through my school, and have to go to the student health center if I get sick. . .which I can barely afford to do, because if I get a prescription I have to pay for that. . .and it's not like I'm not trying, I work two jobs while I'm in school, (and on an unpaid internship for that!) Sadly, it's people like me who suffer too. . .we want the education, but can't actually see a doctor when we get sick. . .and most of the people I know in Grad School are in the same boat. . . it's not fun, but you just gotta try to not get sick. .. .

When are people going to understand that health care and profit do not go together! The direct healthcare workers, doctors, nurses, hospital administraters etc., will make their customary fee.........that's it. No deductables, no monthly premiums, no inflated costs, no overpaid CEOs, no high administrative costs. Direct doctor/patient relationship without involvement of insurance companies influence as to outcome of your diagnosis.........and don't forget the PRE-EXISTING CONDITION.....!

nicely written. insurance is offered where i work but i cant afford it. i have college to pay for. i just pray i dont get sick.

Eileen C, Do you not think that we could improve upon the other systems of Universal Health Care, such as the one in Great Britain that you mentioned, so that ours would have much less or none of the flaws you speak of? Ours would be better funded and we would have the benefit of using the other systems that already exist as examples of what to do and what not to do. Would you not agree with me that it would be more productive for us to put our heads together and come up with a truly remarkable system, rather than wasting time debating about whether to keep a system that is, by all statistics and common sense, broken? I'm going to put this again as plainly as I can; Our system, though it would be a Universal Health Care System, would not be exactly like any other system that currently exists. Why are you so quick to accept what I guess you consider "good enough", when we have a chance to make it better?


STEVEN E: " "I'll bet you'd love if someone said that about the industry you worked in."

"There should not be profit in food."
There should not be profit in clothing."
There should not be profit in housing."

After all, we definitely need those things as well!"

I think there is a distinction here that you are either accidentally or purposefully leaving out. Yes we need food, clothing, and housing. And of course we need Health Care. What we do not need is insurance to pay for our health care!!

PETER S: " Hi! I'm an independent insurance agent and I'll tell you who some of the uninsured are. One is the guy who would rather buy a boat than protect his family. A whole bunch are still waiting since the first time around for the Clintons to GIVE it to them for free. She almost put me out of business. A whole bunch of others don't understand that they can get it cheaper from me than from their employer if he requires them to pay under his group plan. And on and on. You wouldn't believe the excuses I get from folks who would rather spend their money on a vacation than on protecting their family!"

Yes!! You finally found the answer!! I was going to buy a boat next week, but now thanks to you, I won't and I will magically be able to afford insurance. I think we all know the quote by Upton Sinclair, "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it." So lets see, on one side we leave 47 million people uninsured and you keep your same job, OR 47 million people are insured and you have to take your sales skills and pick one of the 100 sales jobs that are in the classifieds every week. I think I know which I'm gonna take.

I have had several jobs over the past 40 years. All of them have provided group Insurance. I have had insurance from different providers. Blue Cross has been very good. I have had very little problem when doctors offices and hospitals have submitted claims properly. The rise in the cost of health care began to escalate remarkably with the institution of Medicare and Medicaid. That's the way things work when government becomes involved in anything. Society has become overburdened and overtaxed because personal responsibility has been put aside for those who would rther the government raid my check to pay for them. I raised a son who has a genetic disorder. I paid the way with the help of my insurance. The government provided until he became an adult. I have very little sympathy for the call for national health care. The government has nothing to give anyone without taking it from someone else.

The propaganda would have you believe that the US is the best country in the world for livability and the happiness of its citizens. Unfortunately, the truth is that the US ranks fairly low considering the great wealth of the country. The American people comprise the hardest working population of any advanced industrialized country, yet they receive the least protection and benefit for their labors. What they do get is an abundance insecurity and emotional strain. Control of the national wealth rests in few hands and it is becoming more concentrated every day. The sad position in which ordinary Americans find themselves is the direct result of the political process having been hijacked and rigged for the benefit of the few and to the detriment of the many. This is not at all unusual, it has been repeated constantly in history . There are only two ways in which this condition has been corrected in the past; one is by enlightened government leadership, such as has been the case in Western Europe, the other is by rebellion, such as the events in eighteen century France.

A fair social system would be something like the European model. Most Europeans enjoy, universal health care, universal free higher education, superior job protections and more generous time off, real pension protections, free or nominal cost child day care and family and maternity financial assistance. This of course, rings fear in the hearts of those who are benefiting from the Social Darwinism in the US.

While the expert think tank hired guns are predicting the collapse of the Western European economies because of the financial burdens of their social safety nets, the Euro continues to strengthen against dollar. When introduced, the Euro could be purchased for roughly $.91, it is now hovering near $1.45; doesn't sound much like a collapse is imminent. Whatever the European social safety net costs, it cannot compare with the wasteful US military and associated expenditures. We should note here that the US spends more on military preparations than the next one hundred high spending countries combined. World per capita military expenditures $123.00. US per capita military expenditures $1666.00. And, I'm sure you will be surprised to learn that taxes paid by citizens in Western Europe are no higher than they are for US citizens.

Perhaps, the Europeans have learned something that still alludes us. Perhaps they have learned the lesson of sufficiency in war preparations and gained the knack for constructive investment in their people.