Are You Concerned about Illegal Aliens?

gosh that was scary. She thinks she should have the right to vote?
That is just unbelievable.

Are you listening Senators Kennedy and McCain?

she needs to get a life / else where :)

Thanks for the post... this is a very touchy topic...

I agree with Cami. It is a touchy topic and I am not informed enough to make an intelligent comment.

Who said that the comments need to be intelligent? The less intelligent ones are more humorous!

People want what they think all Americans have--a house, a car, a living wage, and the right to vote is the most precious privilege to them....how about to us?

I wonder what the percentage of Gatherites takes the time to vote even in presidential elections?

Wow.

This is one Gatherite who's voted in every general election and almost every primary election since 1975. Many of us take this right seriously.

I worry about some of our legals who have the right to vote, never mind the illegals.
Scary thoughts.

If they become legal they can, take the test! Illegal immigration has always been going on, just seem to have a lot of focus on it all of a sudden. Remember the Braceros in the 60s?

I don't know that it's gone on in these numbers before. Remember that children of illegals born here are legal U.S. citizens. That opens up a whole new dimension to the problem.

Before its all said and done, the illegals will be allowed to vote. The politians, all seem to want them here.
Look , at Hilly, wanting to give them driver licenses , she went along with the gov. of New York on this one, until she got called out on it in the news media. She tried to worm out of it then.
Maybe, we should just give the politians jobs to these illegals, instead. Wouldnt that serve them right?

Just remember ... 2000 buses a day for 2 years. It can be done.

This surprises you? They have already taken many of our jobs, driven down our wages, ruined many of our communities, over-crowded our schools...OF COURSE THEY WANT THE VOTE.

This used to not be a problem, why is it now?

The need for that labor is high and that need is served by them. They should be welcomed into this country of our.

I can't imagine going to any foreign country illegally and on top of that, expecting them to let me vote for their political leaders. Are you kidding??????????????

I cannot believe people are using a need for labor as an excuse for ignoring the problem of illegal immigration! I cannot believe that in the 21st century, Americans are advocating the use of a servant class. That is really not so different from advocating the return of slavery.
As for the voting thing, that is truly upsetting... the idea that a non-citizen would think that she should have the right to make decisions regarding how this nation is run by voting for who runs it... this says quite a lot.

I live in an area where it is really bad and our social services department now has spanish as the first language The crime here has been rising

Get over the labor is needed arguement. We needed, and still need immigrant labor in farm fields...primarily because Corporate Farms refuse to pay a living wage. The problem is, these illegal aliens are no longer content to take jobs in the fields, take them only as a way of getting into America....look at our construction trades as an example of illegals stealing our jobs and lowering the wage base. The kicker...now that they have stolen our jobs, lower the wage base, they want a UNION to protect them and their benefits!

Heck yes, it concerns me. Let's go import people from Russia and Taiwan while we're at it. Tell her to go home and vote.

I'd be interested to know the full context of this response. Obviously, the woman needs to understand that voting is not a God-giving right, but a privilege to those born in the U.S. or those who earn it by being here legally long enough. Unfortunately, too many people have a completely unrealistic view of what they are entitled to when they come to the U.S.

The poticians would probably love to give them the vote.

There is nothing racial about this. They broke our laws. We have immigration laws to control the flow of immigrants so that we don't overwhelm our country at any one time. Illegal is illegal! We have over 1 in 100 Americans (legal or illegal) in our jails right now! We have a struggling economy, lost jobs, rising prices, and overloaded social services. The last thing we need is 10 to 20 million illegal immigrants squating here! I don't care what nationality or country they are from. What is really disturbing is that our leaders try to scare us with false terrorist threats, but don't protect our borders!

Marilyn, you are 100% correct! Imagine the false promises they could give all the Mexicans! In order to get their votes! I say send them all home, and let their own country take care of them. If they are unhappy with their government, then let them change it! We sure can't illegally immigrate to their country! "The American Dream" is already disappearing without the aid from 20 million more poor folks! Open borders, and free trade agreements are destroying what we once had here.

Richard ... the need for CHEAP labor is high. Blue collar wages are being forced lower because of illegal immigrants.

The roof over my apartment was fixed by illegal immigrants last summer, while local construction companies had to struggle for local jobs. The company that owns the complex gave the job to the lowest bidder.
Corporate farms pretty much do the same, by offering terribly low wages and seeing who shows up. They would have to pay a living wage if no one would work for less. The idea that it is acceptable to have illegal immigrants come here to work for less still smacks of advocacy toward a slave class in my opinion. Using the labor is needed argument to justify illegal immigration is like using a sex is needed argument to justify rape. The very existence of this argument is just another sign of the pervasive sense of entitlement to that which one wants or thinks one needs, which has blanketed our nation to the point where folks are willing to take from others without looking at the right or wrong behind such actions or considering possible results.

'Richard ... the need for CHEAP labor is high. Blue collar wages are being forced lower because of illegal immigrants. '

Not true at all Dan. The Blue Collar jobs are going away because the companies move the manufacturing out of this country, because the labor costs are less elsewhere.

The problem is that there needs to be re-training for those workers so they can do work that will stay in this country.

Yes Hannah, the labor and contracts do go to the people that show up at the least cost and the lowest bid, and why one would not accept that is a mystery to me.

Richard, you are wrong....here a couple of cold hard facts on illegals in our work force.

1. They have taken over almost all aspect of the construction trades...78 percent of sheetrockers for instance are now illegal. Union workers sit home while illegal aliens do the work for half the price, and no health insurance. The companies benefit from the cheaper wages, and push the social services needs off on the states....IE, look at how many hospitals are being forced to close because they cannot continue to absorb the unpaid medical bills of illegals.

2. Here is another fact on illegal workers that should concern parents...illegals have moved into many job sectors that were traditionally jobs filled by teenagers looking for their first jobs. (IE, fast food) As a result, there has been a 37 percent decrease in jobs available to our teenagers, which effects their ability to create a resume, begin a work history.

Everyone wants to act as if we cannot deport illegals...we do not have to, we only have to shut off the magnets that keep them here. If your parents are here as illegals, no public schooling. If you cannot prove you are a US citizen, no public services such as food stamps, access to medical care. Here illegally, no drivers license, no access to banks, no access to loans, no being able to get a federal tax payer ID.

Such actions would isolate them, illiminate their ability to earn a living, live a normal life here in America, and they will SELF DEPORT themselves. That fact is being proved in some of the communities that have said ENOUGH, and started enforcing our American laws.

Showing up with the lowest bid because you employ illegal aliens is dispicable, and illegal. Every city in America needs to create employment officers who drive around to various work sites and places of employment to check ID's.

This is such a wonderful topic for the rabid rightwing to show it's utter hatred for brown people on...

Want to solve the problem? Imprison those who hire the illegals. End of problem.

Well first, if you have followed what I've said elsewhere, you would know that, those that employee those that aren't citizens or that have a valid visa are not cops, however, if caught knowingly employing one that is not a citizen or has a valid visa they should be dealt with , as their actions are knowingly illegal.

Second there needs to be a valid way for the workers from neighboring countries to obtain a temporary work visa. Currently that is not available but should be. Also Everyone that is here illegally should be licenced to drive a car so that they can known as an illegal alien, and given a temporary work visa which would be good for at least three years, then they must leave the country and go back for at least six months before they get another temporary work visa from their country which would allow them to work here for another three years.

If they have kids that were born here, those kids are citizens and all the rights of those kids as citizens should be accepted.

If they bring the kids in with them, That's another problem that would need to be dealt with, knowing that the parent would have only a temporary work visa that would expire in within the next three years.

We do need to know who these people are and to give them a temporary work visa.

We also need to find a way to get the boarders secure.

We need to find a way to have the employers check for citizens, and those that have a valid visa or a temporary work visa. Proof of a valid citizenship ID or visa would be imperative for any hiring process.

We don't need to kick these people out of the country, we need to find them and to give them a valid temporary work visa for three years, and we need secure borders. We also need procedures that can be followed at those boarder points of entry. And we need procedures for the necessary changes in the employer hiring process.

Clark:

Illegal Aliens are criminals, and are not necessarily Brown People...as example, I believe we have several hundred thousand illegal aliens that are from Ireland. The Brown People as you labeled them are getting most of the attention, not because they are brown, but the biggest group of people who are flagrantly breaking our laws, entering our country illegally, showing a complete disregard for our sovereign border. As example of this last fact, I point out that attacks on our border patrol in 2007 were up over 700 percent.

What I do not understand, is America's Liberal having more heart, more concern, my compassion for those entering our country illegally, than for the citizens of our country being hurt most by this large influx of illegal workers.

Clark, I am a "brown" person. I am Mohawk.
If you want to see the US go the way of the Iroquois nation, continue advocating the allowance of illegal immigration. You can certainly see what a great benefit it was to my ancestors... look where their descendants are now!
Of course, you may not have been thinking of us when you made your statement. After all, no one ever does during racial debate.

Richard, contracts should go to the lowest legal bid, not to illegals.

In my opinion, only citizens of the US should be allowed to vote, be on public assistance, get a US driver's license, etc. I wouldn't go to another country illegally and expect to have the same rights and privileges as the citizens of that country.

America doesn't need a $400 stimulus pkg, we need jobs and 20 million jobs seems like a good start.
The low end of the economic scale is hurting as these illegals, don't do jobs we won't do, but do the jobs we want to do but can't afford to at the illegal pay scale. Now if I didn't have to pay taxes, would be allowed to violate fire and zoning code so I can share an apt with 20 others, get free medical, food stamps, reduced tuition I just might be able to make it at the illegal salary.

On the high end, we give business tax breaks to outsource jobs to other countries.
Just how long did we think this could go on before we crumble?

When we talk illegals we talk about every country in this world, when you talk brown ... you are discriminating. The problem is everyone running right now is for amnesty and open borders. American middle class is DEAD we just don't know it. Remember evil came in with the workers. Our agents ARE out gunned, they are on humvees with 50cal
guns IN AMERICA! The drug cartels have executed many well inside our borders.
Evil is here ... enjoy your cheap tomatoes.

Does anybody in this thread think for one solitary minute that illegal aliens aren't
ALREADY VOTING ?????
Good grief people ! Get real here. Who do you think gave John McCain his big victory in California (and other states). Do you think for a moment that Romney would have been defeated without a million-strong ILLEGAL ALIEN VOTE going against him ?
Do you think illegal aliens would travel long distances to big cities (Chicago, LA, New York, etc.) on May1st 2006 and again, May 1st 2007, to demonstrate (a lot of trouble for small impact), and then NOT VOTE (short distance to their local poll with a
major impact) ??????????????????
The ILLEGAL ALIEN VOTE is one of the largest and rock, solid voting blocs in America today, and john McCain is riding it lie a Hawiian wave.

Clark Kent -

Funny, you always think someone out there is being oppressed. Today its poor brown people, tomorrow its blacks, the day after it will be gays............

It goes on and it will continue to go on, and there isn't a thing you can do about it until you stop the bleeding heart nonsense. That only makes your "causes" seem more pathetic.

Robert F, good point, they probably are already voting. One day Romney said 'he's in it for the long haul' a day later he's out????????? He saw what you said. Bingo! We lose.

The highest birth rate in America is that of illegals. Politicians are pandering not so much to the illegals of today, but their children 20 years from now...it is pathetic.

It appears the majority of comments here have accepted the prevailing arguments about "illegal immigrants". This attitude toward immigrants is the norm and has occurred with every new wave of immigration.

The New York Times published an editorial comment about the issue which raises a number of valid points.

Most of our ancestors were immigrants. They, too, had desires and wishes. And that's supposed to be part of what America represents--and offers. It saddens me to observe the hatred toward the latest group of immigrants; we're supposed to be bigger than that.

An addendum: I noticed the original author describes himself as "open minded" conservative. I thought they had disappeared with the death of William F. Buckley, so I'm pleased to see one remains. "Conservative" brought to mind another thought: The majority of Hispanics have, until this election, voted conservative (which the Republican party claims to be). I find it ironic that an "open minded conservative" would appear to not want like-minded new voters. (Just a thought)

John J. -

True enough. Legal immigrants generally do vote Conservatively.

Illegal aliens, although not able to legally vote, favor VERY Liberal policies. I have to say DUH! to that. Its just common sense. Illegals want assets, and if its possible to use our idiotic government policies against us, they will. I don't blame them (too much) for gaming the system. I blame us for making the "gaming" possible.

From our end, we need to close these loopholes. If we do, Illegal Aliens will simply go elsewhere for work. In Maricopa County (Phoenix), Arizona, Illegal Aliens are packing up and leaving in record numbers because the laws that are already on the books are finally being enforced.

John:

My immigrants roots legally went right through Ellis Island here in New York, my forebears OBEYED the rules. Each year America LEGALLY allows over two million world citizens to come here, we have the most liberal immigration policies of any nation on earth, so your or the New York Times piece are WAY OFF BASE. Illegal is Illegal...but, guess someone like you is fine with attacks on our border guards on the Mexico border being up 700 percent in 2007?

John,

Can I have your bank account #'s, I need to withdraw some of your money, you see I'm trying to make a better life for me and my family. Thanking you in advance.

ps. You know I wouldn't do anything illegal, we have laws.

John J is apparently well read (on all the pro-illegal alien literatures) and not too privvy to the opposition press. This is a big cause of the problem. People who only pay attention to those spokemen who advocate what they cuurrently support. It's amazing how little they know about the realities of the situation (they've never heard/read the true reports).
John J :
Spend a month watching "Lou Dobbs Tonight" (CNN, 7-8 PM, M-F). Also, please click on my name at the end of this comment, and read my articles pertaining to illegal immigration. You are about to embark on an education. You might start with
"Is Your Social Security Account Safe ?" and "So What's Happening IN Mexico ?"

Richard ... I don't disagree that companies are sending jobs overseas, but wages for so many blue-collar and labor jobs that remain in the country, including construction, landscape and service industries have been driven down or held down by the availability of illegals willing to work for much less than U.S. citizens.

Clark ... You like me, don't you? I agree whole-heartedly that those who hire illegal immigrants are criminals and should be punished as such. That doesn't excuse the criminals who trespassed into this country.

2,000 buses per day for 2 years. That's all it will take.

By the way ... this is not about hatred of "brown" people. What idiot made up that nickname anyway? This is about anybody who enters this country illegally, whether they be Mexican, Canidian, from one of the former Soviet Union nations or anywhere.

If you want to make this about "brown" people, consider the fact that 50,000 additional hispanics are eligible to vote every day, regardless of whether their parents arrived legally or illegally, because they were born on U.S. soil.

That raises a big issue. If 12 to 20 million illegals are here and each has 2.3 children while in the U.S., that eventually adds 27 to 69 million voters who could be sympathetic to their motherland, rather than consider the needs and goals of the U.S. at election time.

John ... the vast majority of the millions of immigrants that arrived over these first 232 years and were subject to the same kind of discrimination have one major difference over the ILLEGAL immigrants (who have also been arriving over the past 232 years).

THEY CAME HERE LEGALLY, ABIDING BY THE RULES!!!!

They were accounted for by INS. Why can't you "pro-illegal-immigration" people (OMIGOSH!!! Did I say "you people"????) get that through your thick skulls?

I can't even believe this nation is still having this discussion. What the hell do you actually think the word "Illegal" means, Clark?

I'm FOR more Americans working.
I'm against ILLEGAL aliens coming here.

How much more simple does it get than that?

It seems to me that the words "open-minded" and "conservative" are an oxymoron.

The idiot who made up the "brown people" comment was a comedian who was criticizing George Bush in his routine during the early part of the Desert Shield.

"Open-minded" and "conservative" are not an oxymoron... however, statements like that do manage to demonstrate the true lack of open-mindedness in the liberal community.

Being conservative it not wrong. The very word Illegal says it all. We should be working on this problem and forcing companies to use legal workers and pay more. If you let this continue you let Corporate America keep running America into the ground by not paying living wages to employees and not paying workmen comp etc. If you want to be here be here legally. These companies do not deserve to be rewarded for breaking the law. If I decide i would rather have the money than the bank go in and take it I go to jail this is how laws work. The are there to protect society from people who would abuse the freedoms this country offers.

Phil G:
I hope the constituents in Nancy Pelosi, Ed Kennedy and Herry Reid's districts are holding them accountable for rewarding companies by offering an amendment to HR4088 that would give them immunity from prosecution, when they hire illegal aliens.
By holding them accountable, I mean voting them out at the next election or, better yet, dumping them out right now, however they can.

hell they may be already in states that don't require any ID to vote...

They don't bother me at all. I fugure they'll vote for the same things the rest of us vote for, good government and prosperity.

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