They call us "neo-cons", "the religious right", "right wing wackos", "homophobes", "bible thumers", etc."
They're tags that are meant to pre-qualify anything that we say as tainted, biased or from some abnormal perspective.
We're conservatives. Most, but not all, of us are republicans. Some are libertarians, some are even (shudder the thought!) democrats.
We elected George Bush twice. We stood by him -- for the most part.
We stood by him when Al Gore and the democrats tried to steal the 2000 election.
We stood by him after 9/11. Most (but not all) of us stood by him when we went to war.
We stood by him when the Kerry's and George Soros tried to buy the 2004 election (with the late republican Senator John Heinz's money no less!)
But we're not liberals, George. We don't look at everything you do as beyond question -- as the liberals did with Clinton.
We questioned how we can afford Medicare Part D. Many (but not most) of us questioned why we attacked Iraq.
Now we have to ask ... What the hell is President Bush thinking as he tries to shove this Immigration bill down our throats?
One of the common threads of conservatism is that what's good for American business is USUALLY good for America. Providing this stream of low-income workers may be good for business, but not for Americans. It takes jobs that would have been given to U.S. citizens and legal aliens and gives them to desparate workers who will accept lower wages.
Backers say that this is not amnesty. They say it will take years, dollars and background checks in order for the illegals here today to become citizens. Here are the fallacies with that one ...
- For the most part, the illegals don't want U.S. citizenship. They just want the jobs.
- The U.S. born children of the illegals are U.S. citizens. Very soon, a large block of these children will be of voting age. Consider the ramifications of that.
- As long as they remain undocumented, those here illegally that are involved in crime (gangs, drug traffic, terrorism) will remain undocumented, continuing to carry on whatever it is they're involved in.
Backers say that the illegals are doing jobs that U.S. citizens don't want to do. Really? Why don't we ask landscape and construction workers who lost jobs or had to take drastic pay cuts because of the competition from illegals.
Backers say that we can't just drive the illegals back to whence they came. However, if we enforce existing laws, punish those that hire illegals, deport illegals on an attrition basis, and get serious about protecting the borders, we will have taken the first big step -- stopping the bleeding.
I will make sure that my Senators -- Casey and Specter -- both know how I feel, because they both back the prez on this one. I'd let my Congressman -- Joe Sestak -- know, but he doesn't seem to respond to calls or eMails.
I know this article bounces all over the place, but this is a subject that really bothers me, and I didn't have a lot of time to word-smith it.
Thanks for listening.
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Comments: 31
No, you're neocons. There is absolutely nothing that is even remotely "conservative" about the agenda of the neocon. That's why so many republicans have abandoned the GOP. TRUE conservatives, libertarians, and moderates have come to flatly, vigorously oppose the radical extremism of the neocon.
"We elected George Bush twice. "
Wrong again. George Bush stole both elections. The facts are in, and they are indisputable. Both elections were rigged and stolen.
"We stood by him when Al Gore and the democrats tried to steal the 2000 election."
Actually, it was Bush's people who went to court, to stop the mandated statewide FL recount. Check your facts. (why is it that neocons live in such a bubble of delusion?)
"We stood by him after 9/11"
What a shame that he allowed that to happen on his watch, and then politicized it for his own wicked agenda.
"We stood by him when the Kerry's and George Soros tried to buy the 2004 election (with the late republican Senator John Heinz's money no less!)"
Wha???? Are you inferring that Bush didn't spend any money on his campaign, or are you inferring that it's illegal to do so? What planet do you bubble people come from?
"We don't look at everything you do as beyond question -- as the liberals did with Clinton."
OMG, this is fricking HILARIOUS! This, coming from the same folks who cheered on wildly while Bush shat upon the constitution, tortured and abused prisoners, stripped away civil rights, destroyed habeus corpus, launched illegal wars of aggression, illegally spied on US citizens, allowed an unqualified gay male prostitute to have free access to the white house, lies continuously about virtually everything, allowed an act of treason to go unpunished, allowed Osama to go free, allowed the anthrax killer to go free, completely ignored REAL national security, spent the nation into debt oblivion, exploded the size of government by a whopping 25%, etc., etc., etc.
All the while, progressive howled and bitched while YOU folks stood and cheered, blindly ignoring every egregious and criminal act that he committed.
Name ONE SINGLE LIBERAL who defended Clinton lying about his very personal, consentual, adult relationship with Monica. I've not heard a SINGLE voice defend his lying, other than to point out that it was none of Ken Starr's GD business to even ask the question, and it amounted to nothing more than political grandstanding and entrapment. He should've been forthright, but more importantly, Starr should never have even asked the question. It had NOTHING to do with the case that he was originally called in to investigate.
"What the hell is President Bush thinking as he tries to shove this Immigration bill down our throats?"
This is awesome! You freaks ignored everything else that this monstrously inept and criminal president has done, but now that he wants to let "GASP" brown people into the country, you've suddenly got your panties all wadded up! This is SO telling of the ugly bigotry and hatred that lies at the core of every neocon and the majority of the republican party, and is THE #1 reason why this party will be sent to minority oblivion for decades to come.
I've got news for you, clueless one; Hispanics, and other minorities are on the rise in this country, and very soon, it's YOU and your fellow pudgy, pasty white, bigoted compadres that will be firmly in the minority as a race. Do you think the brown people are going to forget your bigotry anytime soon? I don't.
"One of the common threads of conservatism is that what's good for American business is USUALLY good for America."
Again, there is NOTHING remotely "conservative" about the neocon agenda.
"Providing this stream of low-income workers may be good for business, but not for Americans."
Welcome to the neocon agenda.
What I find glaringly absent from your article is the mention of what the national security ramifications of having 3,000 illegal aliens pour through the southern border every day are. I will never be able to understand why neocons just simply do not understand or care one bit about national security.
National security simply isn't a concern for neocons. If it weren't for brown people getting American jobs, they wouldn't give two shits about what's going on with immigration. National security doesn't even enter into their minds, because they flat out don't care. So much for the myth, huh?
You want to end illegal immigration tomorrow? Start jailing and fining those who hire them. Problem solved. This really isn't that difficult.
The only point we agree on, Clark, is your very last one.
Actually, I read the entire article and responded to key points throughout. Perhaps, it is you that is lacking in comprehension skills?
Commonality is a beautiful thing.
You are more vicious and hateful than Clark could ever try to be.
He ALWAYS tells the truth and backs up his statements , using many more sources than your "faux news" .
As usual you are wrong ......................................
You are, as always, free to refute anything I ever say.
"Oh I comprehend what you try to say as insults.....but I take them from the source."
Good for you. I have true contempt for those who're seeking to destroy America. I'm sorry that you don't feel the same.
"He was not supporting flagrant illegal immigration"
I never said he was. In fact, we're in agreement on the subject, it would appear. Check that reading comprehension thingy.
"the momentum you built for yourself continued and you start to resemble the extremist you accuse others of being."
Sometimes, it takes a bit of hyperbolic extremism to point out the hypocrisy of true extremists.
Much of this article was laced with falsehoods and hypocrisy, and I take offense to that. I'm not an idiot, and I don't like being treated like one. When someone tries to shove half truths, lies, and distortions down my throat, I don't hesitate to say what I feel is necessary in response. I'm offended by blind, hypocritical ideologues. You may condemn me for having strength of my convictions and enough character to refuse to accept it without challenge, but I will not apologize for it and allow myself to fall victim to this offensive propaganda.
If you want to get people on your side, insulting roughly half of your audience is a bad start.
In fact, insulting ANY of your audience is a bad start.
How about, instead of railing about the relative stupidity of whoever disagrees with your political views on one point or another, you start working on ways to fix this country that don't involve snubbing political factions or pork-barrel politics?
(See, this is why a lot of people stay out of politics altogether.)
I'm kinda waiting for Bush's clock to run out so that we can get back to that whole 'let's improve the country' thing and stop acting like we're grade-school 'No Child Left Behind' dropouts. Eesh.
I know who the neocons are, and I know what their agenda is, and it is absolutely anti-American and undemocratic. I oppose it.
"There is no strength to your convictions when you immediately resort to name calling and the like."
Crazy bitch.
"Political extremism is unacceptable in any form."
And yet, you embrace it. It appears that you favor political extremism in YOUR form. Btw, I'm not a political ideologue. I'm a patriot, a constitutionalist, and a progressive with strong democratic ideals. No wonder you consider me "extreme."
"It starts by dividing along lines as it does now in our country and eventually leads to the type of events such as those that led up to the Holocaust."
Excuse me, but it was the "right" that began this great divide, when they took over the public airwaves, after the expiration of the Fairness Doctrine in 1987. It is your side that spends every campaign season demonizing, hating, and lying about their opponents. Remember how they smeared and villified a heroic, highly decorated American war veteran in 2004? Remember how they lied and smeared Al Gore in 2000? Remember the disgusting things that they said about another highly decorated and severely disabled war veteran, Max Cleland, in 2002? Remember how they said that if we stood up in opposition of Bush's idiotic policies, we were "unpatriotic" or "unAmerican?" Remember how they told us that we're "Godless," and "communist?" Remember how they villified Michael Moore for bringing facts to light with F-9/11, and how they're again lining up to demonize him for "Sicko?" Remember how they call liberated women "feminazis," and how they mock and ridicule men and women of color who hold positions of power?
Seriously, if you want to rail against political divisiveness, look no further than your own party, dear.
" OK ... let me sit back and watch the liberals generalize and insult rather than attempt to make a point."
I made my points. Funny, I don't recall you refuting anything that I had to say. All you and your honey bun were able to do was generalize and insult, rather than attempt to make a point. Weird, huh?
" Your last point is excellent, Dan."
Yeah, wasn't it? He completely avoided discussing a single point that I'd made, and then accused me of not making any points. Excellent oratory skills.
Yeah, George Bush is a horrible president. Probably the worst we've ever had.
But Dan mentioned some important facts about illegal immigration and those are what the issue is about. Incidentally, the race card went out with the OJ Simpson
trial 13 years ago. I haven't heard anyone else bring it back except lunatic fringe
racist groups like La Raza (the Race). Just thought you might be interested in how you appear to a nonbiased registered Independent (former Democrat/Green Party).
You're delusional.
"Why do you find it appropriate to be talking about "brown people" when no one else in this column ever mentioned that ?"
Because republicans are racist, and have serious issues with "brown people," whether they be from the middle east, mexico, or africa.
"You sound very bigoted (pasty white ?)"
Yeah, I'm a bigot, alright. You run with that one, big guy.
" Yeah, George Bush is a horrible president. Probably the worst we've ever had."
Duh.
"But Dan mentioned some important facts about illegal immigration and those are what the issue is about. "
The ONLY issue that the republicans have with illegal immigration is that it is BROWN PEOPLE who're taking WHITE PEOPLE'S jobs. That's it. If it were only about national security, or if it were Norwegians plowing through the border, these people would have NO problem with it.
:"Incidentally, the race card went out with the OJ Simpson "
Incidentally, tell that to the hundreds of thousands of minority voters who the GOP has found a way to disenfranchise every election year.
:"Just thought you might be interested in how you appear to a nonbiased registered Independent (former Democrat/Green Party).:
Blow it out your ass. You're a moron.
try to support his position instead of correct logic and facts. Everything in your
pathetic "answer to me ( if it could even be called that) shows you to be irrational,
out of control and deep in denial. Instead of examining facts and using logic, you
just shout out cuss words. Gosh, I,m so terribly hurt !!!
I'd say your list of fool answers just dug you deeper into the title of column
clown. Now, to say "Republicans are racist" means you are including ALL of them.
So, as our professers in college always used to insist, (you don't get a free pass either), upon what basis do you make that statement ? Name some (any) instances where you saw Republicans being racist (and there you go using the term
"brown people" again).
As for you being a bigot, I already ran with it and continue to do so.
If you think the only issue here is "brown people" as you call it (which is NOT an
issue at all), you are seriously uninformed. There are numerous issues involved here and it's not only Republicans who are making the points. 11 Senate Democrats and one Independent (Socialist) voted to defeat S.1348 last week.
As Barbara Boxer of California said, "I can't see voting for something that reduces
wages". Byron Dorgan (D-ND) said jobs are being lost in this domestic version of Outsourcing, tax bases are being shredded and communties are suffering. You are
unaware of what this great Democrat senator is talking about ? He's talking about
all the problems of bringing in millions of people to a country already badly over-
populated (300 million+). Overcrowded schools, hospitals, jails & prisons, roads &
highways, recreational facilities, govt. offices, etc. He's talking about diseases
long thought to be eradicated, being brought in completely unmonitored. Crime
increasing dramatically especially from alien gangs. Natural resources being depleted at rapidly increasing rates (ex. oil & fresh water). Another 4 Democrats
(Webb- VA, Byrd-WV, Landrieu-LA and Baucus-MT all mentioned the removal of
huge amounts of wealth from our economy, all of it being re-inserted into the
economies of the "burglar" countries, mostly Mexico. This is an incredible $45 Billion
a year from remittances (GAO), and another $62 Billion/yr in human services (CBO),
us paying Mexico's et al. poverty bills instead of them paying their poverty biils.
This is the biggest international burglary in world history. The Vikings would be envious. And all these pillager countries need is for fools here to say it's OK and we
welcome their plunder troops. By the way, "these people" have plenty of problems
with Norwegiens or anybody else from plowing through the border. The various
emails I've sent and battles fought with legalizetheirish.org is testimony to that.
In addition, plenty of cain hes been raised about White, European illegal aliens in
my city (Irish, Poles, Russians, Bosnians, et al) who have swiped many jobs away
(wage undercutting) from American citizen construction workers and janitors. Most
of those Americans who lost the jobs were Blacks and Hispanics (or what was it you called them again, brown people ?).
So Clark, after reviewing these FACTS I"ve presented, you've got some homework and rethinking to do, please find some other place to spew your lame
hate talk. It's getting uncomfortably embarrassing to see you continuing to make a
fool out of yourself.
While your leading comments and generalizations are a little ridiculous the meat of your story is one with which I mostly agree. I also agree with PJ L, in his above comment!
Until we to get a handle on immigration and stop over populating this country the problems we now experience are simply going to continue to build! I don't care where the immigrants come from we simply don't have the money or infrastructure to support the rapid increase and the environmental costs are even higher. If we still had a 100 million population we'd be saying "what environmental problem!" But we have over 300 million and we've got to work with that and learn to live with it. We need, in general, to assimilate those here before taking in more.
and taking in more. Our overpopulation doesn't allow taking in more (except for
occupations in critical need).
Regarding assimilation, these people subverted the will of the American people
by busting in here illegally. The Japanese would have liked to do that (they tried)
in WWII, but they were stopped by the heroic efforts of our military. It's an insult
and disgrace to all those who lost their lives then, to now allow foreign gate crashers to just break and enter, and occupy our nation with 12 - 20 million of their
people. WE must decide who, and how many, come in here rather than them.
I live in a rural Northern Michigan town. We have immigrant workers to pick our crops. I used to run a business, and never once did any of them try to apply for a job. They stuck to what they came here for, then went home or perhaps moved on to other states.
The lawn maintenance and building trades here are some of the better paying jobs while they last. We do have a depressed economy in regard to the housing, but lawn care is generally agreed to be a needed thing, so new businesses spring up every year. I see only American citizens working for them.
I understand that I live in but one part of America, but when I did live in Houston in the 80s, there were immigrants working alongside my friends in the housing industry. They earned considerably less than the average "white" worker, and these Americans saw no lack of jobs available; you were usually hired on the spot at a great wage. The Mexicans provided more of the laborous tasks, hauling the wood to the site and carting it up to the carpenters on their scaffolds. Again, even though there was a massive deficit of workers available, I rarely if ever saw any Mexican immigrants working in what I consider "regular" businesses such as restaurants, strip mall shops, etc, unless they were dishwashers, and that was rare.
I understand that there is a HUGE need for workers to pick our fruits and veggies, everywhere from California, which is much closer to the border, to up here in Michigan. The powers that measure such things are stating that much of our Asparagus will rot in the ground, and our cherries are at risk too.
As far as blaming Bush, I'm not sure if he is trying to give in to Congress or let them take the brunt of blame for the bill since it IS his stance to be pro-business. I guess we may never know....
whatever jobs, is an idea being pushed by GREEDY companies who want to profit
more by paying less (wages). Without the presence of illegal aliens, they couldn't
reduce the wages that low, and at the normal American wages, they can get plenty
of Americans to pick fruit, or do anything. I worked as a construction worker in the
Army, building bridges. It was a lot harder than picking fruit and we worked 16 hour days, in any weather. This is being done right now by Americans.