QUESTION

Is this rhetorical? In case it isn't I'll offer my opinion. I think that to be brave one must first conquer one's fear. Therefore I say that fear came first.

Fear came first and comes first for everyone. Babies have no courage. Bravery is learned and is specific to the situation. Some people are physically brave but moral or social cowards. Bravery fluctuates within the same person. One can be brave at one time and lack courage at a later time.

Fleeing danger kept our ancestors alive. Only later, when we began to have the technology to fight with predators and win did bravery become valuable.

They are the two sides of the same medal. ;-)

Blessings and best wishes - S.

Yup, I agree. Bravery means overcoming one's fear, doesn't it? So, fear would have to be first.

Yes, fear

I dunno, who's turn was it? lol To come first, that is...

The opposite of fear is love and GOD is Love ... so undoubtedly Love came first related to fear ... from fear comes cowardice and hatreds, each a relative negative.

On the human objective realm of physical manifestation where GOD and associated relationships are mostly subjective, there is a preponderance of fear involved in human thought and action, love is relatively unknown in comparison ...

Bravery comes from confidence which comes from loving acceptance and attachment to something greater than self ... it being the lonely ego self that is more fear prone ...

I know this from a cosmic perspective, in this world but not of it ...

Hmmm. Great answers, all. I might have predicted that fear would be the majority answer, but I do not think I would have predicted it to be the exclusive answer.

My favorite is Svetlana's. Fear and Bravery "...are different sides of the same medal". To me this makes ultimate sense. Kind of a chicken and egg concept.

To demonstrate how this works I will use Larry's excellent (but possibly short sighted) example
"Babies have no courage" I offer the idea that babies have much courage because everything is new. Courage is not all about fear, it can involve venturing into the unknown, trying new things. For a baby, everything is new. Still, bravery and courage are not exactly the same thing. Or are they? The consensus here is that fear is required for bravery to exist. I will put forward the notion that bravery can exist before fear as the courage to try something new. This experience may produce harmful situations and create fear, which then requires bravery and courage to overcome. This, I believe is akin to Svetlana's different side of the same coin concept.

Thanks for pondering this with me, and for your thoughtful comments, every one. Please return as you are and as you will.

I think Larry nailed the answer.

Thank you for posting this to The Surreal Circus.

I agree with Terry White, fear comes first. After being born man first experiences fear rather instinctively when he is confronted with some danger. When he tries to tackle his fear when he has no alternative the result is bravery. No I don't think they are the two sides of the same coin. If you go ahead like a baby not being aware of the danger ahead that's no bravery.

I could not comprehend perfectly what Jerry Kays says. Surely he must be on a much higher plane beyond my reach. I must grow up still to be able to understand him.

Yes, Larry has put it so well. (I missed his comment at first.) He is perfectly right. And he distinguishes between physical courage and moral courage. I like it.

I could not comprehend perfectly what Jerry Kays says. Surely he must be on a much higher plane beyond my reach. I must grow up still to be able to understand him.
Narasimha Rao Jakkamsetty , Apr 1, 2009, 10:26am EDT

Narasimha, I am difficult to understand from only the world perception of 5 sensory objectivity because I see that as a posteriori (the effect) to the a priori (original cause) of the subjective spiritual realm which I always take into consideration as related and relative.

In the metaphoric sense, the Garden of Eden was all about Love and it a higher (Heavenly) realm prior to the "Fall" where the Love was "left behind" and replaced with worldly Fears ...

Jerrry Kays is on another something. Whatever it is it makes his comments largely unreadable. I hope he finds value in writing them.

Babies are very aware, from my experience. I would put forth the opinion that bravery is hard wired into us. We respond to fear instinctively with bravery, but not because we have no choice. If we had no choice then it would not be bravery.

I believe in hardwiring. That is what instinct truly is. As babies, we are aware of our surroundings, but not the consequences of our existence in our surroundings. Thanks to hardwiring, we have the fight or flight response to perceived threats or danger. It is our minds and our identifying of fears and what is to be gained from conquering them, as we discover we can't run from them all, that distinquishes bravery from mere bumbling curiosity.

brynn holt, higher truths seem false to those not yet able to comprehend, I will desist from casting my pearls on your threads as you have no appreciation.

Neither, LAUGHTER, the true expression of enlightenment.

Pearls? All I see is a futile attempt to insert religion where it isn't relevant.

Laughter, yes! Perfect turn, Richard, thanks for that. Laughter, and love, like Jerry Kays says. I do not disagree, Jerry, that there are 'pearls' in your posts. They are always welcome here. They would, in fact, be missed were you to never offer them to my posts again.

But we am not talking about enlightenment, or maybe we are, mainly however, we are talking about fear as it (appears) to exist in our worldly life. I for one, will admit to praying for strength and courage to face fear. I believe we have an inherent connection to creation, to benevolence. That is where my courage comes from. My bravery is because I am crazy, I like pain, and I know no fear.

Except for tofu. I have fear of tofu.

And good reason for that. I have many other fears, most of which are irrational, meaning that without having had a bad experience with a certain thing, I am inexplicably afraid of it... such as thunderstorms, and tornados. I have a fleeting fear of the immediate future, and these things are hardwired improperly. The bravery it takes to overcome these types of fears is harder to muster.

I have a fear of mud and murky water.

Remember the duck

Please forgive, Jerry, my discourteous initial remark. In the future I will greet you properly, with thanks for taking the time to comment, before I respond to said comment. I apologize if my action made you feel unwelcome, that was not my intent. Peace.

The one you're holding for me, or the one who's calm on the surface, but pedaling like crazy underneath?

I thought you were holding the duck. In any case, thinking about the one makes the other go faster.

OH! Thats just dirty, any way ya slice it.

Brynn, if you're feeling dirty and suggestive, come join us on the hunt for Lori's stolen plastic penis from where she works at Planned Parenthood.
Iz good tyme, aye promis!

brynn is feeling dirty? Put down the duck and help us hunt.

I'll put the duck down where I feel.

And what do you feel down there, Brynn?

down

duck down

duck, duck........ GOOSE! lol

Thank you brynn, I will reconsider the future. As to Mandy, time to learn that Religion and Spirituality are two (often) completely different things. Religion is more "man made" and consisting of dogmatic creedal rules that have been institutionalized and "branded" causing the people to fight over their interpretations.

Spirituality (as I know it anyway) is "generic", neutral and free, natural ... offends none but the "religious". :-)

Neuropsychology suggest chemical changes occur within the brain regarding behavioral response, Boo! startle or fearful, now look at what you did as the baby begans to cry or maybe now laugh at what brave idiot it is, nothing but a tabula rasa a blank slate as the lion licks its lip and Daniel fell asleep in lion den and didn't piss on himself like everybody who were wide awake awake to the sight and sound of death and so the lion didn't smell the sweat of fear and he began to laugh out loud thinking this sure ani't haven.
All expressions are illusion and matter little to the will of nature expect when felt by the five senses reflected in the human mind.

Jerry,

I was not offended by your contribution to the conversation, I just failed to see how your comment was relevant to anything other than using 'spiritual' or 'religious' examples to support your thoughts... and in this case, if you support and regularly contemplate a set of beliefs or rules for living based on ANYTHING, spiritual, natural, Godly, whatever... then that is a 'religion' by definition, just like Chritianity, Catholicism, Buddhism, what-have-you.

Pardon me for not specifically referring to your spirituality earlier, maybe I was confused when you deduced "Fear is the opposite of Love, and God is Love(I assumed you meant the Christian God, since you capitalized the 'G'), therefore undoubtedly, Love came first related to Fear"...sorry, does not compute... you might as well have said "black is the opposite of white, and white is bright, therefore undoubtedly black came first related to bright." Doesn't make any sense. Or maybe I was confused at the Biblical reference to the Garden of Eden, and Love leaving after the Fall, leaving behind wordly fears... I would not assume a 'spiritualist' to use biblical examples to support his theory anymore than I would expect an atheist to quote the Koran to support his. So forgive me for my confusion as pertaining to your 'spirituality'.

As Brynn and someone else pointed out, you tend to muddle and mix your thoughts and your words, making it difficult to understand what you've written in general, much less definitively discern your spirituality or religious beliefs....

Draw us a clearer picture of what you're wanting us to see in your words. Use words that are clear, and correct. Trying to be clever doesn't work if you're only using words for the purpose of sounding clever, or intelligent. If you are normally clever and intelligent, it will show up in your writing without you having to try and sound that way.
Maybe if you were a little more confident in your knowledge of yourself and your own beliefs, you wouldn't feel the need to pad your comments with extra quotes and definitions from a religion you say you don't practice.

Mandy

Quite an interesting comment, Richard, thanks for that. It makes little sense to me and contains some assumptions that beg further questioning. You may also want to consult your eighth grade primer.

Mandy, your exoteric materialistic ego says it all (literally) for you ... I feel sorry for you. :-)

Thanks for the sentiment, Jerry. I think Mandy feels sorry for you too.

Actually, I feel nothing for Jerry, one way or another... It's just me and my ego in here, the rest of you, OUT I say!!! LOL

I might be offended if I actually understood what Jerry was saying. How can an ego be literal? And materialistic? How so? On what does Jerry base this opinion of my ego?(NOW would be a good time to copy/paste, Jerry, for examples and referencing)

Wuff. I have read and reread and meditated on Jerry's comments. I have failed to discern the presence of a truly enlightened higher power at work. I think he means well, mostly. It is hard to tell. I hope for the best and expect the worst.

Hey, where'd Jerry go? LOL

Jerry is somewhere. I am nowhere and loving it.

Reckon I was a little harsh on Jerry? I'm sorry Brynn, I only meant to make a point and to interject some humor as well.... I didn't mean to run him off your post. Jerry, wherever you are, I'm sorry.

My perception is that you spoke your mind. If you intended disrespect towards Jerry, I missed it. You know your feelings and have good instincts.

I meant what I said, but maybe I could have been a bit nicer and less sarcastic.... then maybe he would have hung around and set himself up a few more times. Meh.... just wishful thinking.

Brynn ~ This is entered into our 1st~Ever Snippets CHALLENGE as your BONUS #9 entry.

It is a perfect "6" QUESTION~Style Snippet.

{smiles, and MORE smiles!} . . . You really did well in our Snippets CHALLENGE!

Snippets ~ "Where WE WRITE in "30" words or less, and delete the rest!"