I live in Michigan, which is considered a "blue" state due mainly to the labor unions which were so vivid with life, but also due to our major cities, such as Detroit and Flint, which are in solid decay, but we have had many Republican governors and being midwestern, we like to show our independence. We, like the rest of the nation, have our share of young men and women serving in Iraq, and many is the time when our local flags have been at half-mast to honor another local soldier lost to the "war." My girls asked me sometime back why the flags at their school and around town were only half-way up and even to explain it to them brought a lump to my throat. Another life snuffed out, another future that won't be, another family mourning its loss.
The call to raise the flag to only half-mast in a time honored tradition in our country. Although it was lowered mainly when state leaders died, more recent times have seen it used during any major losses, such as 9/11 and more recently, the Virginia Tech shooting. So imagine my surprise when suddenly this act of respect was called into question. What? I thought that this show of respect was eloquent and needed, it showed a patriotic lean that we ARE behind our men and women in uniform. Michigan's Governor Granholm, who is a Democrat, wanted to show the families of our soldiers that we are indeed behind their sacrifices and mourn their losses. "I think the families really need to know that their loved one will be remembered," stated Governor Grandholm.
The opposing side, well, for once the flag waivers aren't behind using Old Glory. They are saying that to lower the flag every time a soldier has given his/her life in service for our country is to trivialize this honor. Trivialized? C'mon. These are our neighbors, our nephews and nieces, our sons and daughters, and unfortunately many times someone's mom or dad. If "Operation Iraqi Freedom" is truly a war on persons who want to see America destroyed, attacking us not only on foreign soil, but in our homeland, then what better way to show respect for our soldiers. The pain and anguish felt by the families left behind can be shared by the communities, not just by them.
The real argument is that having to lower our flags every week really places the enormous toll of American lives this conflict is taking on us and brings it home. It reminds us that war is not the noble and glorious act that we were led to believe when this debacle began. The death toll overseas continues to rise, and some of those waving their flags as the troops are sent off to battle don't want us to use the flag to express our sadness when they die; God forbid we see any negative we are reaping. But war is not pretty, it is one of the ugliest things man ever created. Although there may be times when fire needs to be fought with fire, it is always a lose-lose situation; victory does not come without costs.
So whether you are behind our actions in Iraq or against them, there should be no burying of heads in sand. We are waging a war with not only economic costs, but human costs, and these brave men and women, who signed on to protect our country in war or peace, deserve to be honored. Flying our colors at half-mast does not take away anything more than a sincere act of respect for our fallen troops; they deserve better than being ignored.


Comments: 36
All soldiers are brothers in arms. They go in to the fight together, and sometimes come out alone. No soldier is more important than another, dead or living, past or present. The military doesn't honor the fallen with a flag lowered, but with a folded flag on a casket. The reason for this is that they did their duty and the fight is over. It's symbolic. Those who live go on with their duty. Those who died are honored for it, not lamented over. It's hard even for me to understand, but I don't train with others. I don't get that sense of being a part of it. However I honor their wishes. My husband doesn't even like the banners that say "support our troops". It's his job. That is part of what makes some of these men so great. They really know what it is to honor a sacrifice. It's going on and doing your duty, as well as your fallen friends did theirs.
Once this began as a way for us back home to recognize the loss of a community member, this is the civilian way of doing our part. There was no acknowledgment of any military opposition to this, just another bunch of civilians, many of whom were concerned that this is "anti-war" propaganda, and NOT concerned about any military protocol.
Your opposition, Janice, is MUCH easier to stomach, but unfortunately those voices which are loudest are more concerned about spin than tradition. If they used that line of logic I don't think I would have been the least bit upset!
I don't think any military man would get mad if he saw it. They know very well that civilians don't always get them, and I think they're okay with that. lol
have our great flag at half mast each and every day; it is not only a sad but proud flag at times, but also a happy flag! Perhaps, as long as we are losing men and women during this war which might be a long one, we should have a special day once of month for half mast, along with the proper ceremonies.
The soldiers for the most part are not even here to see the flags lowered...it is only the families of the fallen that witness the caring act! In times of war, even a happy flag must do things it shouldn't have to do.
I wrote an essay piece on this subject. The support our troops things mostly only serve as a reminder that he's not here. Supporting our troops is best done at the polls and by exercising our freedoms daily,like the freedom of speech exercised here today.
There IS much more to being a good citizen than just placing a yellow ribbon on your door or lowering your flag. Voting, having constructive discussions regarding our agenda both here and abroad, and helping your community by volunteering your time in some way are all actions of a productive member of our country. Again, my problem with this issue is HOW it was argued, a jump to "It's anti-war propaganda, a left-wing conspiracy!" etc..
Thanks Janice for giving this story another perspective.
I really don't think that's what I was doing. It just seems divisive and unnecessary. PJ above seems pretty worked up over this, and it doesn't benefit the families she's doing it for at all. That was why I first put in that line about "nobody going crazy on me"- not that I'm saying she did. It's not really even about left v. right here, but it always seems to get there.
If the soldiers don't do it and families don't really want it (some do, I would imagine, and I just don't know them.), shouldn't we pick a bigger battle here. Because if we put this much effort into fixing the helmets the soldiers are having so much trouble with, that would make me very happy. I would feel really really supported.
Speaking as a Blue voter in a VERY Red state, I get that last bit about "left wing conspiracy". I've heard them say that so often and never listen to a thing coming out of my mouth. I voted for Kerry, so I'm just wrong- the end.
I promise I'm going away now. :)
If you happen to think I was going "crazy" on you, you don't have a clue what crazy is. Crazy is a little boy I put to bed every night that cries for his Dad. Crazy is a little boy that wakes up every morning mad at his dad for even being in the Army to begin with. Crazy is that a 12 year old in this country has to worry about his parent. Crazy is that that child is in counseling 2 times per week because he is mad at his Dad for being in the Army...now that my friend is crazy.
The regulations also apply to private citizens as well. I do know that I know of a Knights of Columbus council that flies their flag at half mast all the time because of abortion. And it's just as "wrong" for them. Now having said that, I'd rather people be "wrong" for all the right reasons than to be right for all the wrong reasons.
As a child when I watched war movies -- where the hero goes off to war and the women and children stand waving hankies -- I used to say "why?" Why does it have to be that way? Why are they all so brave; why do they really do it? Why don't the men and women just say no?
I still ask that question knowing, at least intellectually, full well why men and women who choose the military as their career and profession do of course go and do their job. That knowledge doesn't assuage the pain however of also knowing that going off to war means killing and being killed and we all live with the stain of it.
But hide the coffins, and let's pretend the flag flies freely -- and always honorably.
I think that we should value all life. War is not a video game; real people die, both civilian and military. To show support for the families who are grieving at their loss is not asking much. It's asking for some older military values to be perhaps softly looked over, and then having a governor, (or President), who values each and every America life lost, and lower the flag to half-mast for ONE day. Perhaps it's the only way we civilians have to show a brief acknowledgment that we are grateful for that soldier's sacrifice.
In either case, no matter what you do with the flag, it is a hollow, purely symbolic gesture, that does NOTHING to either help the troops now, nor to bring them home safe later. It is like an aphrodisiac. Let's people kid themselves into thinking they are really doing something when they are doing nothing at all.
Joan, I find you disgusting! I am not complaining but explaining. Our ideas are just as valid as yours. It is an empty gesture full of pride. My kids, I might add, cry for their DA too. All three of them. I did not say anyone had gone crazy on me, though I knew they would eventually. This illustrates what I was saying. Years of Army tradition dictate the use of the flag. The law dictates the use of the flag. My husband and I are not for this war. Proving that people read what they want to. My husband wasn't born during VN!
I feel sorry for someone with whatever drives you to behave the way you do. Good luck with it.
PJ, this was what I meant when I said crazy. I knew it would happen, always does. If others would actually go back and look, I said you hadn't gone crazy on me, but you were worked up.
The suggestion of alternative action that would mean more included helmets and much needed equipment that isn't getting where it needs to be. I would appreciate that so my "foolish husband" doesn't get his head shot off! This attitude is something we encounter everywhere and ties with the flag issue. Look what I did for a soldier! I'm a patriot! Meanwhile, so many things in the current political system go unchecked because people don't care.
Soldiers have to defend people like you Joan and that saddens me. My husband is worth ten of you. My brother in law is worth ten of you. You say "Screw the Troops". Fine. Learn how to shoot. You'll need it later without those troops around you so hate.
My husband is in the reserves. We don't get complete medical care while he is deployed. He's normally an Ironworker and has missed out on the bulk of the work around here because he got called. He is not a "grunt" but a sergeant. He's supervising Iraqi workers on contract to the US, so that they can get money to pay for their kids. He is learning Arabic out of respect for the country and it's people. His usual concern is making sure the Iraqis doing the job get fed because not everyone wants to take the time to do it.
Thought you might want to know more about a guy, if you want to slander his name and wish death upon his head.
Janice I think you explained the military mentality very well. They are a humble lot, who don't ask for much. Respect is nice though. Something that was almost completely absent when we brought our boys home from Nam.
The news black out makes it hard for us here at home. During Viet Nam, we got to see our boys in their flag draped coffins coming home, every single night on the evening news. Canadians see our boys coming home on their news, but we don't get to, because it would be too upsetting. Okay, I'm coming off my soap box.
Communities need to mourn in whatever way seems most fitting for them. We have an Air Force base here, and dare I say our flags wouldn't see the top of the pole very often.
I agree that Janice should try to ignore Joan, but I find your remarks suggesting Joan's attitude is has something to do with her sexual orientation equally as repulsive as Joan's, By the way, your assertion contradicts Joan's profile, or are you also assuming she lied about being straight.
This is so frustrating. I never said can't. In fact, if you read, I think you'll see I even said soldiers aren't waiting to see the outcome of this oh-so-important debate. I was trying to explain the spirit behind the laws existing on the books. There is a reason why one man is not more important than another in the Army. It's supposed to foster true equality and trust.
I believe my position to be valid whatever anyone else says. I even said that it was hard for civilians to get it, including myself. Boy, that was right on. I admit that now I am disgusted with the whole debate where before I was only putting another perspective into a conversation.
The point was brought up about gold stars. Yup, yellow ribbons. Hoist your own flag at half mast, but don't get ticked off because others disagree. That is no more a conspiracy (Keep in mind I voted for Kerry) than I am a republican! Now the issue of a news blackout...that's different. That is for looks, appearances. The coffins coming home are news worthy and that is a violation in my opinion.
None of this is directed toward those comments that are aimed directly at me. That has been handled a different way, and I don't intend to respond to that person again.
Joan does bring forth some of the thoughts of those who are confused, albeit in a rather cold and malicious way. Many of us, some of those who lived through Vietnam and others who have only heard of the way we failed those who returned from it, are caught off guard as to the current problem. Many are opposed to this war, but desire NOT to take it out on those men and women who are serving us. Caught in this quandry, we grasp at any straw we can to show support, from yellow ribbons to flags. We do not want the soldiers of THIS war to experience the same snubbing and ostracism as those in Vietnam, yet remain committed to finding the action in Iraq a crime against humanity. Stuck in the middle we are, much like those laying their lives on the line for it.