I have built a relationship with the Bible. I think of its ancient writings like a tribal elder with great wisdom that can set me in the right direction when the fog rolls in. Its principles have shown me where my character is faulty and helped me shore up the cracks. It kicks me in the butt, lifts me over the fence and rocks me to sleep. I'm sorry more people don't benefit from it.
I call it my manual for life. It has everything I need within it's pages. It is Grace, it is love, it is my life!
I believe it's completely relavent today.... maybe more needed than ever! Everyone always points at the violence of the OT but they never read the context or consider the rational reasons for the things that happened the way they did. God is a merciful God. It is man who has screwed things up so terribly. But he gave chance after chance and way after way to come to him and fix that connection that we broke. Then he sent Jesus who bridged that gap so that we could boldly approach the throne as sons and heirs in the kingdom. What in this life could compare to that I ask!?
The Bible is full of God's love for me, his promises, his presence, his desires for me. It's all in there, plain as day if only more would read it with open hearts and minds.
I really enjoyed what Joleen said above: "It kicks me in the butt, lifts me over the fence and rocks me to sleep." Well put!
That's because you are equating the "Word of God" with a book. The "Word" of God was spoken long before there were any books (or languages, or even writing, for that matter) Before the Torah was written down with pen and ink, the Word of God was always transmitted orally from person to person, family to family, tribe to tribe, and generation to generation. To me, confining the "Word of God" to the written page limits it and keeps it from growing and evolving. It turns the Word of God into a redundant thing that is either repeated in the same way over and over, or something that must be twisted and exaggerated in order for someone to get new and fresh meaning out of it. God is still speaking His "Word" today. The problem is, the Bible keeps the Word He speaks today from ever being considered as "Scripture."
Makes me wonder why God hasn't written another damn thing or communicated with another damned soul for the last 4,000 years! The funniest thing about this claim that God wrote the bible is that it's proven MEN wrote those words and most were written from stories carried through the ages. The accounts of Jesus were written decades after his death. The BIBLE is a compilation of books written by various people in different ages (or time).. picked and chosen by the Roman Catholics to be used for their own political agenda!
I guess if you "believe" everything you're TOLD, you never have to read anything history related, or get to the truth of the matter.
The Bible is God's Word. It is our life instruction manual. If we follow the instructions of the Creator, we have a much easier life. It's also God's love letter to us.
especially the part about a much easier life and God's love letter to "us".. where it alludes, "if you don't believe me, I will send my armies to wipe you off the face of the earth then condemn you to an everlasting place of torment."
Debra - don't know if you are an atheist or an agnostic, but you share a common trait with every person I've ever met who is one or the other.
You are angry.
To turn from God, in anger, is normal. Whatever happened, be it abuse by clergy, religion-crazed family life, deep loss, etc. it's a perfectly normal (and healthy) reaction.
Keep screaming at Him, at least you are talking to Him. :-)
I was never told to believe anything. In fact, I've come to hold organized religion in high disdain (even disgust at times). I just opened my heart, and when the mold was ready for the Maker's hand, I found what I didn't even know I'd been looking for.
Please please PLEASE, CA... NEVER accuse me of something you are not privy in knowing for a fact.
I am NOT angry. I am INFORMED. I have never, "turned away from God", for any reason.. no more than I've turned TO GOD for any reason, that entire statement is offensive.. I just don't believe like you or the " faithful religious" believe. My interests don't have anything to do with "belief" .. it all has to do with the history of religion and politics (the two are one and the same, contrary to popular belief).
I'm always amused by those who, when they can't agree with me, or dislike my comment, resort to analyzing without credentials.
And these LABELS.. agnostic.. atheist.. neither of those apply to me any more than Christian or religious.
I'm so amused with those who attempt to define me. About as much as being amused with everyone attempting to define God.
This book contains: the mind of God, the state of man, the way of salvation, the doom of sinners, and the happiness of believers. Its doctrine is holy, its precepts are binding, its histories are true, and its decisions are immutable. Read it to be wise, believe it to be saved, and practice it to be holy. It contains light to direct you, food to support you, and comfort to cheer you. It is the traveler's map, the pilgrim’s staff, the pilot’s compass, the soldier’s sword and the Christian’s charter. Here heaven is opened, and the gates of hell disclosed. Christ is its grand subject, our good its design, and the glory of God its end. It should fill the memory, rule the heart, and guide the feet. Read it slowly, frequently and prayerfully. It is a mine of wealth, health to the soul and a river of pleasure. It is given to you here in this life, will be opened at the Judgment and is established forever. It involves the highest responsibility, will reward the greatest labor, and condemn all who trifle with its contents.
This book unfolds Jehovah’s mind. This Voice salutes in accents mind This friend will all our need supply This Fountain sends forth streams of joy This mine affords us boundless wealth This good physician gives us health This sun renews and warms the soul This sword both wounds and makes us whole This letter shows our sins forgiven This guide conducts us to the gate of heaven. This Charter has been sealed with blood This volume is the Word of God.
Donald, I hear you loud and clear. No, Christianity would not exist without the Old Covenant, which foretold the coming of the Messiah, who is the 'seed' promised to Abraham (Galations 3:16), the 'passover' lamb (1 Corinthians 5:7), a 'high priest' (Hebrews 3:1), a 'prophet' like Moses (Acts 7:37), and the savior of 'Jacob', who is Israel (Romans 11:26). The Gentiles are darn lucky the God of Israel included them in His plan (Ephesians 2:11-12). I love all the responses you're getting. Thanks for asking the question!
I agree Joleen, a lot of great responses. I will return and respond more thoroughly later.
I would like to make a couple of points about Debra W.'s comments; first the new testament was written roughly 2,000 years ago, not 4,000. Second, I appreciate you point that the writings about Christ were a couple decades after his death. I am glad you do not ascribe to the Gnostic beliefs that most of the writings were a couple hundred years later. Most writings about our presidents probably were a couple of decades after their life. It is hard to write history while you are making history or in the midst of the history written about.
"That's because you are equating the "Word of God" with a book."
I agree with the point the "Word" is more than a book and if we are not careful we might make the error of saying that God has discontinuing speaking his "word".
However; I think also think the Logos, the Bible is complete. There are warnings of adding to or taking from the Logos. There are also beliefs that the Logos is a "living word" that will never pass away.
Of course we then get into the debate of how the Bible came to be; and why some writing were included and some were not. That of course is another dispute by the Gnostics and their belief there is an esoteric Gospel and books not included in the original. A lot of these writing came 100-200 years after many of the text in the new testament. If you study the Logos (the Bible) I think you will really understand that much of the accepted books were already being accepted by the apostles and early church and what we ended up with was what they were accepting as Logos in the 1st Century.
Later I will share what the Bible (Logos) is to me. I agree with many of the respondents and again appreciate the responses.
especially the part about a much easier life and God's love letter to "us".. where it alludes, "if you don't believe me, I will send my armies to wipe you off the face of the earth then condemn you to an everlasting place of torment."
Debra, If He were to do this - would you find fault with Him? Isn't this simply the outworking of justice and a thrice holy God? That He withholds this fate from even one of us speaks volumes about His mercy and love shown to ungrateful rebels and treasonous sinners. . . You would do well to reconsider. . .
If I killed my own children because they didn't obey, would you call that justice? If I decided to with hold my "fate" from them (after all I "created them", carried them 9 mo. in my body, gave them life) would that speak volumes of my love and mercy for them?
For Debra from your comment 8/11 @ 9:16am - "Makes me wonder why God hasn't written another damn thing or communicated with another damned soul for the last 4,000 years! "
By the way, I believe he is still communicating. The question is are we listening or hearing?
Debra, there are two things that you are discounting: (1)the serious nature of sin and (2)God's being a righteous judge over that sin.
(1)Obviously, mass murder is seen as serious; but what about gossip? Think about the divisions that that puts between people. I tell person A about person B. We both agree that B is stupid or despicable, etc. I am now aligned with A against B, so my relationship with B has been diminished. Also, A now relates to B with judgement instead of openness and impartiality. A now sees B through the lens of my perspective and the relationship between them has been diminished. Also, A now knows that I am one who will say negative things behind someone's back, so now there can never be real trust between us and the relationship between me and person A is diminished. Person B wonders why the relationship with me and person A seems phoney and B suffers the loneliness from that. God mourns the ramifications of the loss of open relationship and the loss of trust. He sees a "small" thing like gossip as a very large thing.
(2)Suppose (pick a name) Fred is a judge in the 9th circuit court. One day he goes to work and finds that his son has been brought in for sentencing for (pick a crime) whatever. Fred loves his son more than his own life. Does he then say, "I love you, my son; so you're free to go"? I think the answer is obvious; and though it breaks God's heart, He must be the righteous judge that He is and judge sin - whether it's mass murder or gossip.
The Bible is a big story about big sin and God's plan about judging it while still loving us. The Bible is, in fact, one story about one God and His one plan.
And christians go around saying "we all sin.. but I'm forgiven". What a crock.
When getting into the "sin" factor..we find out that there's brain damage of some sort. Serial killers are damaged people, the wiring is loose. but instead of fixing that, we put THEM to death because they killed. (christians support that idea.. because "God" does it)
We make laws to protect society. In witchcraft (no I'm not into that.. I've taken the time to read about all religions) it is passed down through paganism that what you do to others will be done to you. Everything makes full circle. So, even if you think you've gotten away with something, you will soon find that the natural laws don't allow it.
The Bible is a big story about big sin and God's plan about judging it while still loving us. The Bible is, in fact, one story about one God and His one plan.
No it's not. It's a compilation of ancient beliefs long before Israel became a nation. Read the history. "ONE" God, was originally the Egyptian Sun God. So the concept of Israel's God isn't original or unique. And yet, every christian still pays homage to the Egyptian God, AMEN.
Two excerpts from a chapter in R.C. Sproul's book "The Holiness of God". The chapter is entitled 'Holy Justice' and is germane to what we are talking about. These excerpts follow on from a discussion of God's slaying of Nadab and Abihu, Uzzah, Ananias and Sapphira and Sodom and Gomorrah:
"Sin is cosmic treason... Have you ever considered the deeper implications of the slightest sin, of the most minute peccadillo?... We are saying, 'God, your law is not good. My judgment is better than yours. Your authority does not apply to me. I am above and beyond your jurisdiction. I have the right to do what I want to do, not what you command me to do."
and
"Hans Kung...says that the most mysterious aspect of the mystery of sin is not that the sinner deserves to die, but that the sinner in the average situation continues to exist... It is customary or usual for God to be forbearing. He is indeed long-suffering, patient, and slow to anger. In fact he is so slow to anger that when his anger does erupt, we are shocked and offended by it. We forget rather quickly that God's patience is designed to lead us to repentance, to give us time to be redeemed."
Remember Deb - it's a woman's prerogative to change her mind. . .
What is the Bible to me? Well, scripture tells us that it is God-breathed and God inspired. One will have different beliefs based simply if they believe that the Bible is aboslute truth or not. Do I believe that it is? At this point, yes. I believe that we have to judge all things with scripture since it is to be used for correction, rebuke, etc. I believe that experiences can and will deceive us and we must check with the scriptures if it is of God. I believe that the Word was written to those of that time but can be used as a guideline, a learning tool for our lives today but not to always be taken literally. A Christian of over 11 years I still have many questions and things that I am researching to this day. Please read my post on Deceivers in churches. I will be posting more later but I would love for you to be part of the discussion.
"ONE God, was originally the Egyptian Sun God. So the concept of Israel's God isn't original or unique. "
The Egyptian belief in 'one god' (the sun) was for a short period of time under one Pharaoh, Akhenaten. You can't compare this to Abraham's belief in one God. Abraham did not worship the sun. He worshipped the God that 'created' the sun, thus making God the 'Creator' not a created thing. Big difference.
“It's a compilation of ancient beliefs long before Israel became a nation. Read the history.”
That depends on how you view the history of Israel and which history books you’re reading. Abraham’s belief in one God (the Creator) pre dates the Egyptian period by a long shot. It can be traced back to Noah, then Adam. The same God that made a covenant with Abraham previously made a covenant with Noah and Adam. Thus, we end up with an ancient Judaic belief in one God (the Creator) that goes back 6,000 years (approximately).
“And christians go around saying ‘we all sin… but I'm forgiven.’ Everything makes full circle. So, even if you think you've gotten away with something, you will soon find that the natural laws don't allow it. “
True! God works by laws, period. Even ‘miracles’ are the result of a law called ‘faith.’ The reason God could ‘rest’ on the seventh day is because He created a plethora of laws. He’s still resting because His laws are working 24/7. The Bible refers to the law you mention as ‘sowing and reaping’ – meaning, whatever action a person takes will produce a specific result. God has no intention of changing this law for anyone, even Christians. Christ removed the ‘eternal’ payment from sin and a way to get out from under ‘mental condemnation’ associated with our mistakes. The Bible provides good information to help people make good decisions so the laws will work in their favor!
One God predates Abraham; and that God is the same God that Abraham worship. Of course it is the God that Adam and Eve communed with in the Garden of Eden and it is the God that told Noah to build an Ark to save mankind. Also before the Israel nation; the writings of the old testament, any of the law and the priesthood of Israel was a priest, Melchizedek, King of Salem (which is where Jerusalem became located later) - Genesis 14.8. Abraham took sacrifices to this Priest-King. No separation of state here.
So the when of one God is forever; historically speaking just for this planet; in the beginning; at creation.
As to what is the Bible. Many people see it as a number of different things. Many of them are accurate to a point. I won’t discount them. The Bible really does cover a lot of areas; history, poetry, religion, science and others.
To me the Bible is a love story. It is a story of a God that wants a relationship with his creation; especially with man who was created in God’s image. The old testament points to Christ and the ends that God will go to in having this relationship. The new testament of course begins with the Gospels; the good news of what God does to bridge the gap our sin has caused to allow our relationship with him and the sacrifice God was willing to make. The remainder of the new testament shares how we can live in this relationship with God on earth now, how God is still reaching out to others; “Behold I stand at the door (heart’s door in my interpretation) and knock.” He has invited us to join him in this pursuit of introducing others to him; through sharing this good news to any that do not know it.
Those that recognize the need for a remedy for their sin and accept the ends God went through, the sacrifice of his Son, Jesus and make pursuit of relationship with Jesus as our priority will be with him in a perfect family relationship, a perfect marriage as the bride of Christ, in a perfect paradise that will last for eternity.
It is certainly a lot of these other things, but I think it is God’s love story to us first.
I think the Bible is an instruction manuel on how to live our lives..If you compare what is in the Bible to today, it makes alot of sense.. Example... bathe from running water... dont go into a dying mans tent... the first one, is look at how a doctor used to wash his hands in a bowl of water after examining a dead man, then go an deliver a baby... he never gets rid of the germs by washing in standing water, and passes on the germs that killed the man to the new baby and mother.... Dont go into a dead mans tent, because you could catch what the dead man died from... Dont marry outside your race....different races are known for certain diseases..When you mix the races, you can carry a gene and pass it on to the children..the germs can mutate making it very hard and sometimes impossible to fight off.These are just a few things that were written so long ago for us to go by.... The Bible is also, to comfort us.... it is there to teach us...
I would like to see the answer to that one to Donald.
People should not get the Catholic version of the bible mixed up with the historical writings of the new testament.
In my opinion the old testament has no value other than historic after Christ was born and extended salvation to all races.
In today's world it seems to me that we use the biblical writings to support our personal desires when we know we are taking the wrong path to make a certain gain or conclusion.
We fail to show the true christian faith in our actions when we try to force the christian faith on other people of different races and beliefs when the best way to show our faith is simply to live it to the best of our ability.
Christ never ordered people to convert to the christian faith he simply gave them the choice.
The only mandate I am aware of regarding marriage in the Bible is a scripture in the new testament that tells Christian's not to be yoked to unbelievers. This is not a commandment; but is a charge from an apostle and is more practical than anything. There are other charges also; such as it is better for a man to no be married. Again this was more practical than applicable and was not a command.
These two charges are practical and applicable even today. The unyoked with unbelievers are non-believers is due to fact of world views being at odds. I think this stands to be applied to not only marriage but also to business partnerships. If I go against this charge, the consequences I suffer are on me.
The not being married charge is practical especially if I want to go in the mission field. I will have more time and focus on my relationship with God. Of course, if all the time I am unmarried I want and desire to be married; the praticality of this will not apply. I am then better off being married, if I find a willing partner.
"In my opinion the old testament has no value other than historic after Christ was born and extended salvation to all races. "
I believe you are missing a lot of the value of the old testament; if your view of it as a history book is all the value you see. Paul said to Timothy "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,"
Jesus throughout his ministry referred to the old testament.
I think if you see the old testament as a history book; you are correct in that being the only benefit to you. But if you determine to read it and apply it to your life, compare it to the new testament teachings, try to understand what God was doing then to get him to the point of the new testament and Christ's life and sacrifice, and while doing so; ask God to teach you through the Holy Spirit, you may come away with a different point of view.
In the old testament did you know God already mentioned Jesus in Genesis?
Genesis 3 -
14 So the LORD God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this, "Cursed are you above all the livestock and all the wild animals! You will crawl on your belly and you will eat dust all the days of your life.
15 And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring [a] and hers; he will crush [b] your head, and you will strike his heel."
God had a plan well before Christ in the new testament. It is all throughout the old testament.
The Bible is a mirror, not simply a religion or a philosophy. If we apply it without applying the rules of man's religion and philosophy, we can keep from being like the Pharisees with dead religious rituals and self-righteous attitudes. The Pharisees and Jews of Jesus' day arrived where they were the same way so many 'devoted Christians' have arrived where they are in the name of salvation in today's world. 2000 years later, the Jews are still looking for their Messiah. We don't have that long to wait now.
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Comments: 45
I believe it's completely relavent today.... maybe more needed than ever! Everyone always points at the violence of the OT but they never read the context or consider the rational reasons for the things that happened the way they did. God is a merciful God. It is man who has screwed things up so terribly. But he gave chance after chance and way after way to come to him and fix that connection that we broke. Then he sent Jesus who bridged that gap so that we could boldly approach the throne as sons and heirs in the kingdom. What in this life could compare to that I ask!?
The Bible is full of God's love for me, his promises, his presence, his desires for me. It's all in there, plain as day if only more would read it with open hearts and minds.
I really enjoyed what Joleen said above: "It kicks me in the butt, lifts me over the fence and rocks me to sleep." Well put!
Not difficult to answer because a proper description could not be arrived at.......
But, because many, many separate descriptions would be necessary in order to fully and adequately answer your question........
Is it the "Word of God"??......Yes, I believe parts of it are..........
Is it a book of folklore and fables??......Yes, I believe some of it is that as well......
Is it a source of wisdom and guidance???...........Most definitely.....
Is it reliable history??.......Yes, some of it is.......
Is it a one-sided view and biased in favor of the Jewish people???......
Yes, I would say it is that also.........
Is it a source of division as well as a source of unity???......Yes......
Is it all a human being needs to serve God and know His will??.......No.......
Would the whole of Christianity die without it??.....I don't think so.......
Have parts of it become irrelevant or outdated??......Well, I see it that way.......
Does it contain all the answers to all questions??......Definitely not.......
Did the writing of "Scripture" cease with the book of Revelation???......Hardly........
Should the Bible be done awat with??.......Never....Never....and Never........
Is the Bible the same book to me as it is to you??......Impossible.......
Is God still dictating His Word to people today??........Without a doubt.......
However.......if I were given the task to describe the Bible in the shortest sentence as possible, I would say........
"It is a sign post standing alongside the road........."
But, I would also add.........."it is not the road, nor the destination......"
Thanks for asking the question, Don............
Says nobody special.
Interesting. What came first the chicken or the egg?
What came first the Word or the Bible? And what difference?
The Word spoken of in John is referring to Christ; In the beginning was the Word and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us.
I think the question really should be would Christianity exist if there had been no Bible? No word from God? No Christ?
That's because you are equating the "Word of God" with a book.
The "Word" of God was spoken long before there were any books
(or languages, or even writing, for that matter)
Before the Torah was written down with pen and ink,
the Word of God was always transmitted orally from person to person,
family to family, tribe to tribe, and generation to generation.
To me, confining the "Word of God" to the written page
limits it and keeps it from growing and evolving.
It turns the Word of God into a redundant thing
that is either repeated in the same way over and over,
or something that must be twisted and exaggerated
in order for someone to get new and fresh meaning out of it.
God is still speaking His "Word" today.
The problem is, the Bible keeps the Word He speaks today
from ever being considered as "Scripture."
It's really not complicated, at all.
Turn the pages and read with an open heart. That's all it takes.
Makes me wonder why God hasn't written another damn thing or communicated with another damned soul for the last 4,000 years! The funniest thing about this claim that God wrote the bible is that it's proven MEN wrote those words and most were written from stories carried through the ages. The accounts of Jesus were written decades after his death. The BIBLE is a compilation of books written by various people in different ages (or time).. picked and chosen by the Roman Catholics to be used for their own political agenda!
I guess if you "believe" everything you're TOLD, you never have to read anything history related, or get to the truth of the matter.
especially the part about a much easier life and God's love letter to "us".. where it alludes, "if you don't believe me, I will send my armies to wipe you off the face of the earth then condemn you to an everlasting place of torment."
Wheeeee!
You are angry.
To turn from God, in anger, is normal. Whatever happened, be it abuse by clergy, religion-crazed family life, deep loss, etc. it's a perfectly normal (and healthy) reaction.
Keep screaming at Him, at least you are talking to Him. :-)
I was never told to believe anything. In fact, I've come to hold organized religion in high disdain (even disgust at times). I just opened my heart, and when the mold was ready for the Maker's hand, I found what I didn't even know I'd been looking for.
I am NOT angry. I am INFORMED. I have never, "turned away from God", for any reason.. no more than I've turned TO GOD for any reason, that entire statement is offensive.. I just don't believe like you or the " faithful religious" believe. My interests don't have anything to do with "belief" .. it all has to do with the history of religion and politics (the two are one and the same, contrary to popular belief).
I'm always amused by those who, when they can't agree with me, or dislike my comment, resort to analyzing without credentials.
And these LABELS.. agnostic.. atheist.. neither of those apply to me any more than Christian or religious.
I'm so amused with those who attempt to define me. About as much as being amused with everyone attempting to define God.
Good luck, and God Bless - like it or not.
I don't beat any drum, not figuratively or physically.
For those in power a way to remain in power.
For those who are suffering and in want a beacon of hope for the future.
For those who need comforting a balm that soothes.
For those who hate and want to destroy an excuse to attack others.
For those who love and want to save others from harm a guide.
The Bible is what people use it for. How people use it shows their character.
What should be a boon to mankind has been a source of much suffering.
Its doctrine is holy, its precepts are binding, its histories are true, and its decisions are immutable.
Read it to be wise, believe it to be saved, and practice it to be holy.
It contains light to direct you, food to support you, and comfort to cheer you.
It is the traveler's map, the pilgrim’s staff, the pilot’s compass, the soldier’s sword and the Christian’s charter.
Here heaven is opened, and the gates of hell disclosed. Christ is its grand subject, our good its design, and the glory of God its end.
It should fill the memory, rule the heart, and guide the feet.
Read it slowly, frequently and prayerfully.
It is a mine of wealth, health to the soul and a river of pleasure.
It is given to you here in this life, will be opened at the Judgment and is established forever.
It involves the highest responsibility, will reward the greatest labor, and condemn all who trifle with its contents.
-Anonymous
This Voice salutes in accents mind
This friend will all our need supply
This Fountain sends forth streams of joy
This mine affords us boundless wealth
This good physician gives us health
This sun renews and warms the soul
This sword both wounds and makes us whole
This letter shows our sins forgiven
This guide conducts us to the gate of heaven.
This Charter has been sealed with blood
This volume is the Word of God.
I would like to make a couple of points about Debra W.'s comments; first the new testament was written roughly 2,000 years ago, not 4,000. Second, I appreciate you point that the writings about Christ were a couple decades after his death. I am glad you do not ascribe to the Gnostic beliefs that most of the writings were a couple hundred years later. Most writings about our presidents probably were a couple of decades after their life. It is hard to write history while you are making history or in the midst of the history written about.
I agree with the point the "Word" is more than a book and if we are not careful we might make the error of saying that God has discontinuing speaking his "word".
However; I think also think the Logos, the Bible is complete. There are warnings of adding to or taking from the Logos. There are also beliefs that the Logos is a "living word" that will never pass away.
Of course we then get into the debate of how the Bible came to be; and why some writing were included and some were not. That of course is another dispute by the Gnostics and their belief there is an esoteric Gospel and books not included in the original. A lot of these writing came 100-200 years after many of the text in the new testament. If you study the Logos (the Bible) I think you will really understand that much of the accepted books were already being accepted by the apostles and early church and what we ended up with was what they were accepting as Logos in the 1st Century.
Later I will share what the Bible (Logos) is to me. I agree with many of the respondents and again appreciate the responses.
especially the part about a much easier life and God's love letter to "us".. where it alludes, "if you don't believe me, I will send my armies to wipe you off the face of the earth then condemn you to an everlasting place of torment."
Debra,
If He were to do this - would you find fault with Him? Isn't this simply the outworking of justice and a thrice holy God?
That He withholds this fate from even one of us speaks volumes about His mercy and love shown to ungrateful rebels and treasonous sinners. . .
You would do well to reconsider. . .
-Mark
If I killed my own children because they didn't obey, would you call that justice?
If I decided to with hold my "fate" from them (after all I "created them", carried them 9 mo. in my body, gave them life) would that speak volumes of my love and mercy for them?
Your idea of God is so incredibly SICK to me.
By the way, I believe he is still communicating. The question is are we listening or hearing?
2100 BC (about 4100 years ago)
God promises Abraham many descendants
I believe ET is still communicating. Are you listening or hearing?
(1)Obviously, mass murder is seen as serious; but what about gossip? Think about the divisions that that puts between people. I tell person A about person B. We both agree that B is stupid or despicable, etc. I am now aligned with A against B, so my relationship with B has been diminished. Also, A now relates to B with judgement instead of openness and impartiality. A now sees B through the lens of my perspective and the relationship between them has been diminished. Also, A now knows that I am one who will say negative things behind someone's back, so now there can never be real trust between us and the relationship between me and person A is diminished. Person B wonders why the relationship with me and person A seems phoney and B suffers the loneliness from that. God mourns the ramifications of the loss of open relationship and the loss of trust. He sees a "small" thing like gossip as a very large thing.
(2)Suppose (pick a name) Fred is a judge in the 9th circuit court. One day he goes to work and finds that his son has been brought in for sentencing for (pick a crime) whatever. Fred loves his son more than his own life. Does he then say, "I love you, my son; so you're free to go"? I think the answer is obvious; and though it breaks God's heart, He must be the righteous judge that He is and judge sin - whether it's mass murder or gossip.
The Bible is a big story about big sin and God's plan about judging it while still loving us. The Bible is, in fact, one story about one God and His one plan.
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Human Nature.
And christians go around saying "we all sin.. but I'm forgiven". What a crock.
When getting into the "sin" factor..we find out that there's brain damage of some sort. Serial killers are damaged people, the wiring is loose. but instead of fixing that, we put THEM to death because they killed. (christians support that idea.. because "God" does it)
We make laws to protect society. In witchcraft (no I'm not into that.. I've taken the time to read about all religions) it is passed down through paganism that what you do to others will be done to you. Everything makes full circle. So, even if you think you've gotten away with something, you will soon find that the natural laws don't allow it.
The Bible is a big story about big sin and God's plan about judging it while still loving us. The Bible is, in fact, one story about one God and His one plan.
No it's not. It's a compilation of ancient beliefs long before Israel became a nation. Read the history. "ONE" God, was originally the Egyptian Sun God. So the concept of Israel's God isn't original or unique. And yet, every christian still pays homage to the Egyptian God, AMEN.
I like the new icon.
You made your beliefs very clear. I just don't share those beliefs.
Two excerpts from a chapter in R.C. Sproul's book "The Holiness of God". The chapter is entitled 'Holy Justice' and is germane to what we are talking about. These excerpts follow on from a discussion of God's slaying of Nadab and Abihu, Uzzah, Ananias and Sapphira and Sodom and Gomorrah:
"Sin is cosmic treason... Have you ever considered the deeper implications of the slightest sin, of the most minute peccadillo?... We are saying, 'God, your law is not good. My judgment is better than yours. Your authority does not apply to me. I am above and beyond your jurisdiction. I have the right to do what I want to do, not what you command me to do."
and
"Hans Kung...says that the most mysterious aspect of the mystery of sin is not that the sinner deserves to die, but that the sinner in the average situation continues to exist... It is customary or usual for God to be forbearing. He is indeed long-suffering, patient, and slow to anger. In fact he is so slow to anger that when his anger does erupt, we are shocked and offended by it. We forget rather quickly that God's patience is designed to lead us to repentance, to give us time to be redeemed."
Remember Deb - it's a woman's prerogative to change her mind. . .
-Mark
"ONE God, was originally the Egyptian Sun God. So the concept of Israel's God isn't original or unique. "
The Egyptian belief in 'one god' (the sun) was for a short period of time under one Pharaoh, Akhenaten. You can't compare this to Abraham's belief in one God. Abraham did not worship the sun. He worshipped the God that 'created' the sun, thus making God the 'Creator' not a created thing. Big difference.
“It's a compilation of ancient beliefs long before Israel became a nation. Read the history.”
That depends on how you view the history of Israel and which history books you’re reading. Abraham’s belief in one God (the Creator) pre dates the Egyptian period by a long shot. It can be traced back to Noah, then Adam. The same God that made a covenant with Abraham previously made a covenant with Noah and Adam. Thus, we end up with an ancient Judaic belief in one God (the Creator) that goes back 6,000 years (approximately).
“And christians go around saying ‘we all sin… but I'm forgiven.’ Everything makes full circle. So, even if you think you've gotten away with something, you will soon find that the natural laws don't allow it. “
True! God works by laws, period. Even ‘miracles’ are the result of a law called ‘faith.’ The reason God could ‘rest’ on the seventh day is because He created a plethora of laws. He’s still resting because His laws are working 24/7. The Bible refers to the law you mention as ‘sowing and reaping’ – meaning, whatever action a person takes will produce a specific result. God has no intention of changing this law for anyone, even Christians. Christ removed the ‘eternal’ payment from sin and a way to get out from under ‘mental condemnation’ associated with our mistakes. The Bible provides good information to help people make good decisions so the laws will work in their favor!
So the when of one God is forever; historically speaking just for this planet; in the beginning; at creation.
To me the Bible is a love story. It is a story of a God that wants a relationship with his creation; especially with man who was created in God’s image. The old testament points to Christ and the ends that God will go to in having this relationship. The new testament of course begins with the Gospels; the good news of what God does to bridge the gap our sin has caused to allow our relationship with him and the sacrifice God was willing to make. The remainder of the new testament shares how we can live in this relationship with God on earth now, how God is still reaching out to others; “Behold I stand at the door (heart’s door in my interpretation) and knock.” He has invited us to join him in this pursuit of introducing others to him; through sharing this good news to any that do not know it.
Those that recognize the need for a remedy for their sin and accept the ends God went through, the sacrifice of his Son, Jesus and make pursuit of relationship with Jesus as our priority will be with him in a perfect family relationship, a perfect marriage as the bride of Christ, in a perfect paradise that will last for eternity.
It is certainly a lot of these other things, but I think it is God’s love story to us first.
Dont go into a dead mans tent, because you could catch what the dead man died from...
Dont marry outside your race....different races are known for certain diseases..When you mix the races, you can carry a gene and pass it on to the children..the germs can mutate making it very hard and sometimes impossible to fight off.These are just a few things that were written so long ago for us to go by....
The Bible is also, to comfort us.... it is there to teach us...
Where is this in scripture?
People should not get the Catholic version of the bible mixed up with the historical writings of the new testament.
In my opinion the old testament has no value other than historic after Christ was born and extended salvation to all races.
In today's world it seems to me that we use the biblical writings to support our personal desires when we know we are taking the wrong path to make a certain gain or conclusion.
We fail to show the true christian faith in our actions when we try to force the christian faith on other people of different races and beliefs when the best way to show our faith is simply to live it to the best of our ability.
Christ never ordered people to convert to the christian faith he simply gave them the choice.
These two charges are practical and applicable even today. The unyoked with unbelievers are non-believers is due to fact of world views being at odds. I think this stands to be applied to not only marriage but also to business partnerships. If I go against this charge, the consequences I suffer are on me.
The not being married charge is practical especially if I want to go in the mission field. I will have more time and focus on my relationship with God. Of course, if all the time I am unmarried I want and desire to be married; the praticality of this will not apply. I am then better off being married, if I find a willing partner.
I believe you are missing a lot of the value of the old testament; if your view of it as a history book is all the value you see. Paul said to Timothy "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,"
Jesus throughout his ministry referred to the old testament.
I think if you see the old testament as a history book; you are correct in that being the only benefit to you. But if you determine to read it and apply it to your life, compare it to the new testament teachings, try to understand what God was doing then to get him to the point of the new testament and Christ's life and sacrifice, and while doing so; ask God to teach you through the Holy Spirit, you may come away with a different point of view.
In the old testament did you know God already mentioned Jesus in Genesis?
Genesis 3 -
14 So the LORD God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this,
"Cursed are you above all the livestock
and all the wild animals!
You will crawl on your belly
and you will eat dust
all the days of your life.
15 And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring [a] and hers;
he will crush [b] your head,
and you will strike his heel."
God had a plan well before Christ in the new testament. It is all throughout the old testament.