Verizon gave me a much need pause from gather by fixing my neighbors service and disconnecting mine. With that said lol here is the topic for tonight.
The two things that people say they never discuss are religion and politics. But, we know better. So lets take a break from politics and tackle religion tonight. The Christian Faith will be the topic..
Ready? Do you literally believe what is written in the Book of Revelations as being a prophesy for the future or was John of Patmos writing about the plight Christians faced at the time under Roman Rule?
recommend this
email
print
link to this page
Comments: 30
This is but a gentle jibe at those who insist the Bible must be accepted completely on faith.
OK maybe not so gentle.
The Bible and each of its books was written by man, not divinely inspired. IMHO.
And, the gospels were intended for different audiences. Being aware of that makes their messages easier to comprehend.
As for the poll question, the true meaning of Revelations has not been revealed to us yet. For that reason, I believe that it refers to events still to occur.
Oh, Carol, yes, I've been aware that the King James is a version that has "books" deleted. But, I'm curious - what additional "books" were deleted from the "Catholic" version?
Btw, I'm under the impression that some Protestants incorrectly believe that the Catholic Church added extra "books" to the Old Testament. Actually, they added "books" to the New Testament, namely the Gospels. It was the Jews that deleted the "books" from the Old Testament that make the King James Version different.
Luke wrote the story of the birth of Jesus that most know....but Matthew also wrote it--and in his version, Mary is invited into Joseph's home to have the baby--no manger, no inn--so, since both of these books were written approximately 100 a.d., why the difference?
I do ask these questions(and others) when holy rollers start in on me--I always get a blank stare and stupid answers like, "well.....this is different now...(shellfish)"--I then answer then if you can apply that to what you like, the bible doesn't hold up for more than fantasy religious writing...
How do I know, I have faith that's why.
The books in the new testament were fought over and decided at the council of Nicaea that was called together by Constantine. The reason Constantine called the council was because there was so much fighting and warring in the name of god that he figured it was time for them to join forces and knock it out.
In the process they knocked out some of the most important writings like the Gospel of Thomas which is what the Gnostic's believed in and the Gospel of Mary Magdalene who was the true rock of the church, not Peter as so many believe.
The old testament was an historical tracking of lineage (hence all the begots) and a series of fables, set to teach the people at the time, who were mostly illiterate, moral truths and popular philosophy's in ways they could understand. Just like the invective about certain food were sparked by massive outbreaks of ptomaine poisoning.
Study the history of the bible and the new testament before you go on about it being divinely inspired, use our brain. After all, isn't that a gift from your god.
I feel that folks get into trouble when they try to interpret the Book of Revelation, it's not an easy read and I feel it can't be taken literally, also John was a first century man giving his comprehension of things in a distant future.
Kim J. writes: "Well, if the bible is "devinely inspired", how many people calling themselves "Christians" should be put to death for eating shellfish????"
First, although Carol's Poll does not address specific religious belief other than those found in the Book of Revelation, Kim poses the question of a reader who fails to read further to the new dispensation that was brought about as a result of the teachings of Christ. Jesus taught that it was more important what was inside a person than what the person put inside their body. He further taught that if you asked God to Bless the food before eating it , it would be clean; giving new life to the Old Law regarding shellfish and many other items.
Kim wrote: "oh....wait a minute.....then bigots wouldn't have a devine reason to hate."
Secondly, Kim you hit the nail on the head with this one: Christ, on the way to the cross said, "A new commandment that I give unto you is that you love one another, even as I have loved you." This is the great command that should be the guiding principal in our life in the current age. The fact that many do not heed this message, does not distract from the rightness in the command of Christ.
Kim wrote: "Luke wrote the story of the birth of Jesus that most know....but Matthew also wrote it--and in his version, Mary is invited into Joseph's home to have the baby--no manger, no inn--so, since both of these books were written approximately 100 a.d., why the difference?"
Thirdly, they speak of different periods during the birth of Christ. Luke gives an account of the moment the child came forth and Matthews deal with several days later with the arrival of the Magi. One thing is consistent. Both accounts of the birth of Christ describes it as a virgin birth.
No no no Kim there are no deer eyes in the headlights when you raise your questions from this believer. Study the word of God and you to can came into the light.
As for Carol's initial Poll question regarding Revelations: In the words of an Old Negro Spiritual, "You will understand it better by and by".
Why don't peaple fuss more over the Sermon on the Mount?
Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul. and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. --Matt. xxii 35-40.
These are often called Christ's commandments; but they are not original with him; they are quotations from the Law, the one from Deuteronomy, the other from Leviticus. Out of all the welter of injunctions and prohibitions which make up Deuteronomy and Leviticus he picks these two as expressing the loftiest attainment of the human spirit in the ancient Hebrew Writers. On these two hang all the law and the prophets.
The Old Testament was and still is more than just a historical record. Its the owner manual for a society and a planet. You buy a 40 k car and the owners manual comes with it and you read it. But how many really read the owner manual found in the Old Testament. It is an early basis for common law. Both legal practical and ethical.
Just kidding. I'm not "really" Christian, so I don't have an opinion on this.
Later I ran across a Nevada tribal story of a tribe that decided to journey west over the mountains and seize all the great wealth they knew the tribal traders must be hording, for each summer traders came from the west with salt and pitch and shells. But when the tribe got into the mountains a great snow fall came and blocked their progress, so they camped until spring. By then their God had found out and in anger he blackened their tongues and choked many of them to death.
The works of God.
Now a great snowfall in the Sierra's even to this day does two things.
First, by drifts piling up higher than usual, more pine cones are dislodged and fall into the drifts. When spring comes these extra cones swell open creating a lot more pinion nuts for rodents to feed on. More food means bigger litters, bigger litters means a greater chance of more rodents being infected by plague carrying fleas. (Campgrounds even in this day and age get quarantined due to rodents with plague.) Plague is nasty! In fact your tongue can turn black and swell choking you, if you aren't treated with antibiotics.
Secondly, the snowmelt causes flooding in the great central valley on the western side of the Sierras. Flooding increases the mosquito population, and that increases the incidents of encephalitis and yellow fever. Fever that would drive you to the rivers edge. Encephalitis that could swell your brain until you die in your sleep.
- What these legends probably recount was an actual attempt by the Piutes to wage a war against the Yokuts. The God sent afflictions were actually natural consequences of the snowfall.
Or not.
I think we can recognize that had the development of the tribal people not been interrupted by the arrival of Europeans, it is probable that some day their 'legends' would have been written down as the word of God, told as the word of God, and enforced as the word of God.