I can't believe it but Hillary Clinton has left me awestruck!

Chris I agree with you. Unlike you though, I have never liked her. She is one of those females that if you give them ANY kind of power you might as well give them matches or a lighter.

Ouch.

That's the Clinton's problem.

They think most Americans are as stupid as they are corrupt and dishonest.

i am glad that the moonbat party is intent on nominating Hillary because I am going to savor every second of her loss come Nov 2008. The look in Hillary's eyes when she is forced to give a concession speech and come face to face with the realization that her political career and influence have peaked will be a much better high than any drug any human being has ever taken.

i'm counting down the minutes!

Drop in the bucket. Check the list of pardons Bush has done in six years. Makes Clinton look like an amateur. Not defending Clinton, I'm just saying he's a real slacker in comparison.

Anybody heard of Ron Paul? You might want to.

Teresa, I have never liked her that was supposed to be very sarcastically.....hmmm maybe needs an edit......thanks for the comment

Ms M seems to have got it.. ;-)

Dana, this is not going to be any slam dunk. Trust me. Bush has done ALOT of damage to the party , it policies and supporters. The best hope for the right is a Democrat candidate so far left of center that they ( the conservative voters) will get re-energized and stop it.

Ron, First off Bush didn't pardon Libby, he commuted his jail time. Libby is still on 2 1/2 years probation responsible to pay over 250,000 in legal fees fines etc and is going to lose his law license. There is a BIG difference between a Pardon (complete dismissal of all rendered punishments) and commutation of prison time only. Maybe you can remember to keep that in mind as go merrily about Gather with your tedious Bush bashing. As far as I know this was the first use of his executive power in this capacity, if there others feel free to tell us about em. BTW the 15 Clinton pardons I mentioned? Those were only the ones in his three days of office there were about 2 dozen more in the previous month. Oval Office favoron sale now!!!! Full Pardons 50,000, commutations 25,000, sleep in the Lincoln bedroom 10,000, get felt up by the president FREE of CHARGE

Ellyn, Yes, he is intriguing and refreshing. I find some of his policy refreshingly new and a few downright nutty. But to be frank he has NO chance all he can possibly do is siphon of conservative votes and give the another Clinton the presidency. Do you realize if the scenarion comes to pass ( a three candidate general election) and she won that would be three terms of Clintons in the White House without ONCE winning a majority of the vote. Both times Bill won he had 43% and 46% but Perot sucked off enough Republican votes for Clinton to win to elections with a plurality rather than a majority. I believe it was the first time a president was twice elected without winning 50% or more of the vote either time.

You drew me in. I usually try and skip the political posts, but I had not control; I HAD to read what you'd written. Got a big kick out of it, too. Well written!! Thanks.

That's exactly what I was aiming for Tanya. Thanks for posting. ;-)

"Ron, First off Bush didn't pardon Libby, he commuted his jail time."

Yes, I forgot, that doesn't come till January 2009

"Libby is still on 2 1/2 years probation responsible to pay over 250,000 in legal fees fines etc and is going to lose his law license."

Libby will be getting that much in less than a week when he gets on the Republican Speaker circuit. He's the darling of the Republican Party (how sad is that) and if he ends up paying a dime of his legal fees without somebody with deep pockets reimbursing him for it, Dick Cheney wears pink frilly panties. He doesn't and hasn't needed his legal credentials for years, and he'll get them back when he's pardoned, anyway, won't he? Some conservative think tank will give him a job in a New York minute, and he will suffer exactly zilch, get real.


There is a BIG difference between a Pardon (complete dismissal of all rendered punishments) and commutation of prison time only. Maybe you can remember to keep that in mind as go merrily about Gather with your tedious Bush bashing."

Probation, that's rich. Maybe you can remember to be half that naive as you go merrily about gather with your tedious slack jaw yokel spin.

Oh, and I said I wasn't defending Clinton, and I won't.

Fair enough. I would only respond by saying I have no issue with your outrage as long as you felt the same outrage when the former president admitted to perjury before a grand jury and obstruction of justice and was allowed to walk. His only punishment disbarrment, which as you point out matters not a wit as he pulls down well over 10$ Million a yera on the speaking circuit. Justice should not be partisan. do we agree on that Ron?

With Caveats, and that is that i state this: Clinton was lying about an affair with a consenting adult, and Libby was lying about a treasonous act. Either way, they both deserved more than they got.

OMG... lol, she is a MAN. LOL.

This misstatement has been made so frequently it is accepted as fact but is not. He perjured himself during the Paula Jones investigation by a grand jury that was weighing whether he should be charged with rape. It WASN'T the Lewinsky fiasco.

Bring on Billary...it's just what we need to wake up the citizenry.... oh wait they're all IPOD zombies.... I despair......

Chris W. Yes Bush has done a very great deal of damage to the Republican party. However I don't think the GOP needs "hope" in 2008 if Hillary gets elected. All the GOP candidate will need to do is to dissassociate themself from Bush and being that either Rudy or Romeny will be the GOP candidate I don't think that will be too difficult to do as neither of them have been in Washington for the last 8 years as a Bush lackey.

Also while Bush is hated by many on both sides America si not exactly going gaga over the Democratic party these days either.

If the Dems nominate Hillary all the GOP has to do is make it clear that the GOP is no longer the party of Bush and they will win.

"This misstatement has been made so frequently it is accepted as fact but is not. He perjured himself during the Paula Jones investigation by a grand jury that was weighing whether he should be charged with rape. It WASN'T the Lewinsky fiasco."

OK, this gets tiresome.

"In 1994, Paula Jones filed a lawsuit against Bill Clinton, claiming that he had sexually harassed her three years earlier. The Paula Jones case led to a deposition in January 1998, in which the Jones lawyers questioned witnesses about possible sexual activity and sexual harassment involving Bill Clinton. Clinton himself testified before the deposition on January 17, 1998. During this deposition, he denied having "sexual relations" with Monica Lewinsky, as the court defined the term. His answers convinced his enemies that he had committed perjury. Because Vernon Jordan was involved in both the Whitewater scandal and a job search for Ms. Lewinsky, Ken Starr expanded his Whitewater investigation into the Monica Lewinsky affair. On April 1, 1998, Judge Susan Webber Wright threw out the Jones case, arguing that even if the charges were true, they did not constitute sexual harassment. However, Ken Starr held a Grand Jury hearing on August 17, 1998, in which Bill Clinton was questioned about alleged perjury in his deposition testimony. Clinton's enemies thought his answers in this second round of testimony produced new examples of perjury, and both his testimonies were presented in the Starr Report as grounds for impeachment."


So, yes it was lying about Lewinsky, and he wasn't convicted, you seem to forget that as well. I wasn't going to point that out, because it pains you guys so, but he wasn't.

Chis, thank you - that would explain why Hilary wears pants. God forbid we have one of those Britney spears moments when we all get exposed to her secret! Man or Woman I will support the Clinton - Bloomberg ticket.
I look for the pardon of Libby to come as Bush walks out of the Whitehouse. This ordeal could possibly be a great tunring point in Mr. Libby's life.

It's an important distinction, Ron. Thanks for pointing this out. Too many people think that the Republican sins are forever exonerated because Bill Clinton transgressed. In the end, liars always get what's coming to them. Bill Clinton paid a heavy price for his lies. He, however, did not involve the safety of anyone's life with his lies. Like you said, he wasn't convicted.

Joe,
You might want to take a look at this link for an explanation of why he wasn't convicted, too. He obviously morally lied, but because of legal incompetence of prosecutors in the jones case, it was almost impossible to prove it legally

http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-clintonperjury.html#Backclintonjonesperjury

Dana B.,
Something tells me this country isn't going to let a party that made the grievous error of electing this man twice go, quite that easily. If the Dems select Clinton, you have a chance, but it isn't going to be the cake walk you say, because the party itself has lost credibility with many that previously considered it their voice, and rightly so.

Ron....let me start by saying that even though I am a Republican I think Bush has been a pretty horrible president and cannot wait to see him go. He does not represent the traditional conservative values of fiscal responsibility and limited government in the least. He has taken the once great party of the greatest president in American history, Ronald Reagan, and utterly trashed it's reputation in a mere 8 years.

That being said....I don't really think the disgust with Bush on both sides of the political spectrum necessarily constitutes some great love for the current Democratic congress or presidential candidates. Hillary is not just disliked by those on the right but by moderates, those in her own party and a good deal of the female population.

I firmly believe that majority of this nation lies just slightly to the right of center on the sociopolitical spectrum. So if the GOP candidates can distance themselves from Bush and say "hey that's not me," while pointing out how far left the Dem party has become and how corrupt and self serving Hillary is they will all but have the 2008 election locked up.

Since the GOP will either nominate Romney or Rudy it shouldn't be hard for either man to convince the American people that they are not just an extension of the Bush administration as neither man has been in Washington for the last 6 years kissing Bush's ass like John Mccain has.

Oh and what makes you think that the American people are somehow going to associate everything Bush has done with the new GOP candidate while completely ignoring all of the baggage tied to both Clinton's? Rememebr that clip of Hillary saying "I could have stayed home and baked cookies?" We've all seen it what...two maybe three times int he past? Well get ready to see it over and over as everything Hillary has ever said and done will be brought to bear against her attempt to win the White House. Personally I hope the GOP goes for her juglar from day one after she's won the nomination. For the first time ever Hillary will be forced to answer the hard questions that in the past she has been enable to shrug off due to the tightly controlled atmospheres that she and her handlers have always controlled in which she has made public appearances.

Lastly..Hillary Clinton is a far left socialist, we all know this. However we are told by her supporters that her rhethoric and lip service votes in Congress prove she's a moderate. UH UH..........Do they really think we are that fucking stupid? We know that while Hillary is pure evil, she is not stupid. The one thing she learned while watching her husband is that the best way to win the white house is appear to be a moderate even if you are not. So as far as I'm concerned she can take all of her phony rhetoric and pandering and shove it stright up her fat ass. She is the biggest threat to this nation since sinee the Japanese decided to pay us a visit one Sunday morning in 1941.

Just saw "Sicko." Michael Moore is pretty hard on Hillary for selling out to the insurance industry.

"Ron....let me start by saying that even though I am a Republican I think Bush has been a pretty horrible president and cannot wait to see him go. He does not represent the traditional conservative values of fiscal responsibility and limited government in the least. He has taken the once great party of the greatest president in American history, Ronald Reagan, and utterly trashed it's reputation in a mere 8 years."

My opinion is that Ray gun was the man that started this country onto the twisted path of accepting a dolt like Bush II in the first place. His populism while he screwed the American worker, was pretty much a toehold for the sleight of hand that Bush practiced so well. He is the reason I left the Republican party and never looked back. His regard as a hero by the Republican Party is unfathomable to me, other than that he did a good job of acting like a president, not being one.

"That being said....I don't really think the disgust with Bush on both sides of the political spectrum necessarily constitutes some great love for the current Democratic congress or presidential candidates. Hillary is not just disliked by those on the right but by moderates, those in her own party and a good deal of the female population."

Can't argue the Hillary part, not my choice either. As far as love for congress and presidential candidates, can't lump them together, Congress no, presidential candidates all (including Hillary) poll ahead of any Republican, so far.

I firmly believe that majority of this nation lies just slightly to the right of center on the sociopolitical spectrum. So if the GOP candidates can distance themselves from Bush and say "hey that's not me," while pointing out how far left the Dem party has become and how corrupt and self serving Hillary is they will all but have the 2008 election locked up."

First you are suffering from a common misconception on the socio political spectrum thing. Every poll I have seen has confirmed that on the present important issues, the country's majority lies on the other side of that divider. Check for yourself. On the lock, see reference to presidential polling.


"Since the GOP will either nominate Romney or Rudy it shouldn't be hard for either man to convince the American people that they are not just an extension of the Bush administration as neither man has been in Washington for the last 6 years kissing Bush's ass like John Mccain has."

See present polling, again.

"Oh and what makes you think that the American people are somehow going to associate everything Bush has done with the new GOP candidate while completely ignoring all of the baggage tied to both Clinton's?"

I don't. I hope the dems realize Hillary has a lot of baggage and nominate someone else, but if the Republican candidate even begins to sound like a Neocon, I think he'll be toast,...... well done toast.

"Rememebr that clip of Hillary saying "I could have stayed home and baked cookies?" We've all seen it what...two maybe three times int he past? Well get ready to see it over and over as everything Hillary has ever said and done will be brought to bear against her attempt to win the White House. Personally I hope the GOP goes for her juglar from day one after she's won the nomination. For the first time ever Hillary will be forced to answer the hard questions that in the past she has been enable to shrug off due to the tightly controlled atmospheres that she and her handlers have always controlled in which she has made public appearances."

I can't argue much with that, and won't. I will say this, if you're looking for a model of controlled atmospheres, I doubt you can find better examples than any event Rove organizes.

"Lastly..Hillary Clinton is a far left socialist, we all know this. However we are told by her supporters that her rhethoric and lip service votes in Congress prove she's a moderate. UH UH..........Do they really think we are that fucking stupid?"

I really don't know where Clinton lies in her beliefs, because, as with the rest of us, she has aged, and we have all gotten a little less radical over the years, and then there is the refusal to apologize for her war vote. I refuse to answer the last part on the grounds that it might incriminate me.


"We know that while Hillary is pure evil, she is not stupid. The one thing she learned while watching her husband is that the best way to win the white house is appear to be a moderate even if you are not. So as far as I'm concerned she can take all of her phony rhetoric and pandering and shove it stright up her fat ass. She is the biggest threat to this nation since sinee the Japanese decided to pay us a visit one Sunday morning in 1941."

I think we already ALL knew your take on things, Dana B. While Hillary is not a favorite of mine, there is no way that she could make a worse mockery of this country's laws, institutions, traditions, and values, than George Walker Bush has, and continues to do to this day. If it came down to a choice between her, and a candidate that even slightly smells like another Neocon, I have faith that enough of the country has learned it's lesson, that she would win in a landslide, going away, sorry.

First you are suffering from a common misconception on the socio political spectrum thing. Every poll I have seen has confirmed that on the present important issues, the country's majority lies on the other side of that divider. Check for yourself. On the lock, see reference to presidential polling."

If that is true then how do you explain the fact that in EVERY state that citizens have had the opportunity to vote on the issue as a ballot referendum they have voted to amend their state constitution. We're talking actual votes and not polls here. In 17 states, including some very blue states such as OR and MI Americans said no thank you to gay marriage.

Very true Audrey.

Dana B.,
You're under the illusion that the Democratic party has officially endorsed gay marriage? Well, I don't know why that would surprise me, I guess. What most do support, civil unions, polls much, much better. And what was the Republican stance on that the last time I checked? Wrong side.

Dana,

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4496265/

"Clinton wasn't convicted............" Ok technically true. He coppeda plea bargain. He admitted to sufficient facts ( basically confessed) Would that be the infamous Clinton classic " that depends on what your definition of is, is...."

The only reason Clinton is brought is for comparison of reaction to opposing political party figures basically doing the same crime. Perjury is perjury. It wasn't about the infamous BJ but more along lines of Jones 's lawyer wanting to show a pattern of behavior. The jdge asked Clinton to stop deflecting questions by side-stepping them and finally became so exasperated he asked Clinton point blank "Is there sex going on here?"

Clinton later tried to explain his "lawyerese" answer by saying he thought the judge was asking if there was sex going on right there at that monet in the courtroom. Because the wording of the sentence was improper. VOILA! instant loophole.........

Again his name comes up only in the context of the similarities too Libby conviction with much divergence in sentencing.

Oh and I would say giving nuclear technolgy secrets to the Chines is pretty harmful to the US.

I would say giving N. Korea a heavy water nuclear reactor to use for "energy" if they crossed thier heart and hoped to die and pinky swore.....
Unfortunatelt Kim apparently had his fingers crossed, so he could break those promise about 42 seconds after the last shipment for the reacot which creates the high end fissile material for nukes. Plutonium, Uranium.

Some might say that was not prudent...........

Clinton is every conservatives get out of jail free card for the next seventy years, yahad, yahda, yahda.

Thank YOU Chris! I personally don't care WHAT our next president LOOKS like. However, I do care about what they SOUND like and there is NO WAY I'm going to listen to that horrid screeching from that vile woman. She is EVIL. If there were to ever be a truly STRONG and INDEPENDENT woman in the Oval Office, my vote goes to Condaleeza Rice. She is brilliant. She is strong. She is a woman who epitomizes independent women. It's amazing how soon the Clinton worshippers forget and "forgive" their demigods. The pardons that Clinton gave were disgraceful.

Isn't it a matter of what IS is?

Hillary is treading very dangerous ground any time she mentions the presidential pardon issue. She is on record several times saying with a straight face, that she "knew nothing about" the remarkable coincidence that her brother had taken money from either friends/family of or the person themselves that were later pardoned by her husband. Furthermore she stated she "never discussed pardons with her husband or her brother"

This seems to stretch the definition of credibility further than the elastic in Rosie O'Donnell's thongs.,.. (how's that for a pretty visual??)
The Clinton White House was a political Ebay of political favors. Clinton rented out the Lincoln bedroom for chrissakes.
This is no excuse or justification of the Bush presidency, rather it is an interesting study in the moral relativism so popular with the left today. The crimes of Clinton were ok because he was a nice guy who cared about the little guy, (especially the ladies who he would molest at the drop of a hat. )

Ron, only a hard left off center ideaogue would call Bush a conservative. One of things I find most surprising is why the left comes down on him so hard. He has basically rolled over and become a liberal in most political issues.

As far as your specious contention that the majority of Americans are left of center, one needs look no further than the election results of the last 40 years to see the lie you attempt tom pass off as truth. From 1968-present; Years president has been Reublican 28, years off Democrat president 12. I'm no professional statician Ron but by my math that would seem like almost 2.5 to 1 against what you claim ought be reversed. Let me guess what your answer is; it doesn't really matter who gets elected, the mnost accurate barometer is some obscure Zagby poll right?

Mitch, sorry to get your panties in a twist, but I am neither hateful (dry, irony and sarcasm can cut but don't come in the kitchen if you...) nor small (you poor pitiful weak kneed little girly-boy, don't blame me for the bullies who took your lunch money in school). I suggest you stay with your small sycophantic circle jerk cabal and not wade into big boys arena, you likely will be made to cry again.

"Ron, only a hard left off center ideaogue would call Bush a conservative. One of things I find most surprising is why the left comes down on him so hard. He has basically rolled over and become a liberal in most political issues."

You elected the ahole, so you keep him. The truth is, though, that other than practicing starve the beast theory, a reaganesq practice to make sure entitlements had to be cut to the bone, he is a corporate shill, pure and simple. That's why he wants the illegals here, to have a way corporations can legally use them to lower wage scales.

As far as your specious contention that the majority of Americans are left of center, one needs look no further than the election results of the last 40 years to see the lie you attempt tom pass off as truth. From 1968-present; Years president has been Reublican 28, years off Democrat president 12. I'm no professional statician Ron but by my math that would seem like almost 2.5 to 1 against what you claim ought be reversed. Let me guess what your answer is; it doesn't really matter who gets elected, the mnost accurate barometer is some obscure Zagby poll right?

Well, as we saw in 2006, things may be changing somewhat. That also doesn't factor in how many years the republicans have been using wedge issues to get voters to vote for them on one item they feel strongly about. Abortion, gay marriage, and a number of other issues have gotten them the vote from people that share very little in the way of other values with them.

Ron, divisive issues are the REPUBLICANS?? Wow! that's news. I guess when you say blatant lies like tax breaks for the rich, that's inclusiveness? Now I'm not sure if you are too much of a dimwit to know that it is a flat out lie (unless you are such a bum that you consider someone who makes 40K a year rich) or you are such an idealogue that any lie is acceptable if it manages to get another ill-informed voter over to the party of income redistribution. Why don't you mention Ron, that the last three years have shown an increase in the collected revenue by the IRS? So in actuality these tax cuts have actually RAISED the tax base. I guess that's just another one of the inconvenient truths that seem to haunt democratic campaigns.

So Ron we are dying to know which is it dimwit or political stooge? Unfortunately for you there is no option C. You are either misinformed or intellectually corrupt and dishonest. We can't wait to find out which.