Heaven and Hell ( critique requested )

I'm going to keep reading this poem because its completely fascinated me.

'Toil in dirt and dust' The mind you can't see - you have to look within. What the eyes show us are a physical understanding. Pain has to be visible. 'Painters, poets, writers,

Lovers, artists, musicians' - They can see within, they can understand the invisible. Because the toil they face is every bit as physical as dirt and dust. Pain can be invisible.

The twist of the tale is in the first stanza, I think. The fact that "great men" decided who would reside where is telling me that this is man's view of heaven rather than actually being heaven. And the resultant confusion results. You created an industrialized, Marxist heaven bent on worshipping utilitarianism. You contrasted that with the passions and dangers (heat) they may ignite. The struggle of modernity poeticized.

This poem is really teaching us about the here and now with dire warnings. Long live the poets and the lovers!

I know this may not be the critique you're looking for but its my response to this thoughtful peace that argues convincingly for the things I love.

Long live poets, writers, painters, musicians, artists and lovers
On cold, snowy nights, their fire in hell burns brightly
For those cold in the soul.

Amarpreet,
This poem reminds me of those days when we were so much interested in knowing hell and heaven .Your delicate expressions are dispalyed like a small bud blooms slowly. Your questions to your answers are a kind of a mystical journey of life.We live , die and then what's the next junction is all about faith.
To feel these one has to be poet,painter, musician , artist and lovers...Great message hidden in your rich texts ..whenever you start writing it's flawless and bring another clauses of life..

Very thoughtful ...

Great Poem... Like Reena D says, Thought-provoking.

Jonathan ! I thank you for your wonderful comment and I am glad that this fasinates you to read again ..yes its a battle of seen v/s unseen ... invisible pain that is fire within , it comes out as an expression of art .

I saw a movie lately ..some ask me who is the movie ...I said "like a painting "
for someone it must be trash , for someone else its worth million ..

Umar ,
heaven and Hell is a man made concept like everything else ....we are all governed by some set of rules , rights and wrongs ,and so the man himself decides on everything ....

If you could see so much in my poem ...I take your words as a positive review ..:-)

Bhawana,
life after death has been man's prime concern ..I fail to understand why ... but its an eternal quest and there have been many theories on what will secure you a place in heaven or will make you go to hell...
I read this concept in a book of Amrita pritam and was awed by it ...
but yes we burn in a fire that is within ...I am nothing without that fire ..and I don't care wheather its heaven or hell ..

Reena,
thats true dear ...all great poems/writing are written by people who struggled in life or love or both ... there pain echoes in their land much later tha they are gone ..

I am doing a detailed study of Amrita pritam ...and there is so much pain in her writtings and such craziness in her definition of love ... more I read her more inclined I am to learn more ...

Thanks Beck and all dear friends for your valuable comments ..

This comment is to let you know that this content has reached ten comments, and as such has been removed from Comment Speedway! Congratulations!

The first three stanza are quite good, but after that this poem ceases to have direction as to specifying detail to each object. It is more or less meandering thoughts. It definitely needs a bit of tightening and quite a bit of more conciseness. Sorry, but I'm not going to gladhand you when you ask for a critique.

William , Thanks a lot for your input ... I am looking for similar critique and its better than gladhand ,unless ofcourse you really like it ...
I'll edit it after few more comments and will post edited version for your review and comments ..thanks a lot William ..

I see the connection in this poem..the first 3 stanza's are setting up the true story..that those relegated to the sumptuousness of whatever heaven they believe may find it not the true paradise without the fire and color of the artist that some or even they have relegated to a lesser existence. Some are takers..not true appreciators..and they will take your very essence..the essence of that creative fire ,if you let them..if you sell that creative fire out and become just another facsimile of an artist..just so many pixels on a page..so the true artist denies the user any heat from his creative soul.."find your own..look deep within...but maybe then you will see you are no better...and should be cast into this hell which you have segregated the artist to...which by the way..is the true heaven..filled with creative beauty" I like how this poem turns the issue inside out....
I wouldn't go crazy editing this ...thanks!

Fascinating twist in this - who defines which is which? Neat! Good job.

Oh what a gem of an article Amar. I loved it.
It's not often that one sees good satire on Gather but this was really good. Satire is the art of mocking to expose some foolishness or other. In this case the thought that the heat of hell came from the fire in a lover's or artist's breast.

Hahaha. I laugh at the thought that artists and lovers serve no pupose in life. It's very funny because I've never met anyone who is only a lover or only an artist...but that's just part of your satire.

Amar, I'd love to know more about Amrit Pritan. Could you tell us more about her?

Your poem structure has a vitality that you shouldn't lose. I think that there are some words left out that could enhance the poem, if added. I can send you a mail re my ideas, if you wish.

we write from the depths of our soul, and some souls are laden with sorrow and sadness, others are brimming over with joy and levity; often both produce great art, and often the one merges into the other... your poem was marvelous and well-crafted!

I sometimes wish people would honor the critique welcome, instead of trying to be nice. Whenever I make a harsh critique, I always visit with fresh eyes to see if my critique was valid. My only change in viewpoint is that I think your fourth stanza is good and needs no edit.

I liked this very much. The things I would change would be to see if I could make the poem flow a little better, with more of an ease of reading. Perhaps read it to yourself, out loud a couple of times and you'll come up with a different way of saying things? Just my thoughts and thanks for the opportunity to give help/critique as I love critique on what I write as well.

Hi Amar , will wait for more shades of Amrita pritam..It's long time I am really out of touch with those feelings..

Hi Amarpreet. Just wandered back to enjoy the picture and poem. There are some beautiful lines in this. I guess I'd agree with Marilyn about the ease of reading, though sometimes I think the words end up conveying an accent, and the reading smooths at that point - like when my kids have to read Shakespeare and can't figure out the flow.

I reread it again and this time I liked the last stanza. So for now, I like the last stanza and stanza 1 - 4.

I think the poem states a simple fact and I am probably wrong, but heaven and hell are of your own making, and you live it right here, I am warm.

I enjoyed this superb parable poem quite a lot, amarpreet, especially since you deliver its inverted message in a very casual fashion, and really make the reader see that what we in our consensual trance collectively constiture as ¨heaven¨and ¨hell´ are really just conformist beliefs by ´great men´as you say ironically, for these ´great men´use their imagery of the paradise/inferno dichotomy to enslave others to their world view.

What I most enjoyed about this well written work was its marvelous disingenuous tone and sly playing about with our visceral reaction to the notions of cold and heat.

All dear Friends ...I thank you all from the bottom of my heart for your valuable inputs ...
you are great writers and I am humbled by your kind words ..

William ...I really like that you take critique so seriously ...for it does matter to me ..you have spend your valuable time here and tried to re-evaluate it ...I am thankful to you ..
please critique as and when possible to you ...I apprecaite honest feedback ..don't mind the harshness ,its towards my work and not towards me ..so I am fine with it ..:-)

Special thnaks to my dear friend Fred for taking so much pain in explaining me line by line and giving me sometips on meter and rhymes .. I am really glad to be connected with ou Fred ..

Dear Amarpreet - Well, I'm sure I'm going to that place some folks call Hell because I love to paint very abstract stuff that no one can figure out - surely, that's the Devil in me huh? I am totally fascinated by this poem...I can't offer critique in the way of format as I don't pay attention to that anyway - I just enjoy the message that your words convey to me - and I think that's the point - the same as trying to make people aware of heat/hell and cold/heaven...it's not in the literal sense - if that makes sense! I love this work very much - please leave it exactly as it is for folks like me - who love Heat. Thank you Amarpreet and may the New Year bless you with many creative friends! Salud.

I read this poem again - I think I shall keep coming back to it - It's probably one of my favorite poems. I love the way it flowed - I just read it aloud to my husband and he liked it as well. Many blessings. Salud.

I would reply in a short verse:

The architect, the archaeologist, the worker, the scientist
Would not have been cold.. Had they not burnt out for others,
They distributed their fire and never saved for the self,
For others, they let their love, passion and art get shared
And made into structures and chemicals and knowledge for the coming.
They toiled their lives in dirt and dust, here on Earth
And so they died of cold, in Great Men's Heaven!!

Now my cirtique:
Amar, First correct the name "Amrita Pritam" please. In my view there is no hell and heaven and no one can make it. It's all in our hearts. As a poet you should be able to see Love in all Hearts, Artists' or Scientists'.
Amrita Pritam, if you read carefully, never mocked the workers and great men (constructors and leaders of the humanity). She was bitterly against the dogmas and the society that restricts the heart and mind and thoughts. She strived for the same world that Rabindranath Tagore strived for and now people like Abdul Kalam, Kofi Annan, Steve Wozniak (CEO of Apple Inc) strive for. They toil in dirt and dust.
My Humble request and suggestion... Be out of dividing people based on their work. You have got the power of the Word and Rythm. Use it to put your thoughts and feelings strongly and also to make the humanity discover the Love that's in every heart.

I know, its a rather harsh and long review. But it's Ok. Thanks for the opportunity. I'd love to see you die of cold in heaven than see you cosy in Hell.

One more: In the following line, 'But everyone brings its own fire here', you should replace its with their.

I thought this was a great story with a very applicable moral to be learned. I loved the twist at the end! Like the yin and yang symbol represents; there is no such thing as pristinely good or purely evil; a mixture of both is always present in all of us. Great poem.

quite fasinating and interesting twist to life after death.

Yeah that invokes an important point, Heaven n Hell is nothin but just a sweet way of differentiating between good and bad. Everyone has his its own li'l fire burning in there hearts, but jus' sometimes we stop feelin the warmth. We love readin these lines n feel so attached but how many times had we applied them and sticked to them. To feel the warmth we jus' hav to be ourselves, simple human beings and after that its just a tinkering a bit here n there !

Thanks everyone for your insightful comments ...I 'll try comenting to all of you in next few days and catch up with all I have been missing in last few days ..

Amarpreet, I've read this poem a number of times. The first time with great fascination. The second time with enjoyment knowing the end and the third time with an eye for critique.

I think you've missed an opportunity to use visual language in the following stanza,

"Painters, poets, writers,

Lovers, artists, musicians

They live in their own world

Serve no real purpose when alive

They should burn in hell"

I see this as an "onion" poem. One that you've just peeled layers of the onion off and you're heading toward the sweetest part with only a few more layers removed. I think with some mindful editing this will be one jewel of a poem!

Trish ,
thanks a lot for your valuable critique ...
when I wrote it first , even I felt there is something amiss ...then I waited for critique of all good poets here on gather ...may be in a few days I'll study it and edit it ..your suggestions are helpful and give me direction.thanks dear ..

I had to read this again dear Amarpreet - thank you - it's marvelous! Salud.

I came back to read the comments. I like what Singh P says.

These are for you.

thanks amarpreet ..hope your muse is fine...

I'm not that good at analysis. I have simply re-writen your
poem. The original is unique, clear, and inspiring. This rendition
is simply my interpretation of your fine work. I mean no disrespect
by changing some words as my intention is to make it cleared to me.
Alas, I'm being selfish and beg forgiveness in using your original
in such a way.

Finally it had been decided,
Once and for all by great men,
Who should rest in heaven
And who should burn in hell.

Painters, poets, writers,
Lovers, artists, musicians,
They live in their own world
Serve no real purpose when alive
They should burn in hell.

And all other great contributors
Those who toil in dirt and dust
In their lives here on Earth
They should go to heaven

For, surely they deserved comfort
the great men decided.
And so they did...for a time.

But heaven's winters were very cold
So, in this heaven the residents searched
and sought everywhere for some heat.
But, no trace of fire was seen.

An old man wisest of all there
Suggested they borrow some fire
In the place called Hell where
It was said to be in abundance.

With a frown and an attempt to look fine
The man came down from heaven and
knocked on a door where above
was written: "Welcome to Hell"

A bleary eyed man opened the door.
The great man didn't bother to ask his name.

Can we borrow some fire?
You see, it's cold in Heaven and
Don't say you haven't enough,
For we know that's untrue.

Hell man, some poet, still in his world
Answered thus:

We have a lot of fire, why should I deny it?
But everyone brings his own fire here.
It can't be borrowed as it burns within.
So sorry, I cannot lend you some.

To feel the warmth of this fire
You have to be one among us
Painter, poet, writer,
Lover, artist, musician.

Those who create always burn
In a world of their own and
In death must burn in Hell as
We burned on Earth.

The "great men" created heaven based on the human love for luxury, since this world is a material world: streets of gold; mansions; trees and flowers that never die or wilt. Then they had to develope the criteria to get past the pearly gates. Those who didn't follow these arbitrary rules went to a place devoid of luxury. Religion evolved into a corporation, a money-maker, using guilt as a device to keep them in Club Heaven. Hence, hell had to be the ultimate punishment. Burning in eternal fire was an excellent device to deter the free thinker.

A man once said to me, "I hate myself. Everywhere I go, nothing works out. I think the world stinks. Everywhere I go it's like hell." I replied, "Everywhere you go seems like hell because hell is inside you. The world has a lot of good in it as well as bad. You need to change."

I agree with the above comments, Amar, and your well written poem. Cheers.

I have come back and read it once again - it is filled with lessons for me. Thank you and I hope you're doing ok. Salud.

Well I'm a parttime poet, but a generalist. I dug this. I have no comments about meter and so forth,as to me, it just 'reads' well in me head.

As you make clear, heaven and hell are here on earth. Those of us who utilize insight and philisophical thought are more distraught than the ones who focus on the mere physical aspects of life. Brilliant satire and thought provoking poem. I believe it's your best thusfar....astounding

I really like this. It is very thought provoking.