Hatred and bigotry spouts from many fundamentalist Christian pulpits across the country. Bigotry against blacks, women, homosexuals, Mexicans, atheists, and even other Christian denominations are all favorite targets for these preachings of hatred. Using out of context quotes from the Bible (and some made up ones) they can persuade other Christians into not speaking out against them. With the rhetoric; like ," Jews were created out of mud" and "blacks are the result of Eve copulating with animals," or “People with black skim are cursed by God as descendants of Cain for killing his brother”, they manage to convince themselves of biblical justification
One of these “so-called Christian” organizations recently went so far as to plant two bombs timed apart for the specific purpose of killing rescue workers working to aid the victims of the first. Bomb. ("Army of God")
We often see news of a self-proclaimed "militia" taking "responsibility" for a terrorist act against what they pretend is "the enemy." A lot of these self-proclaimed "militias" are Christian terrorist organizations with a membership largely consisting of Charismatic (holy ghost practitioners) or Christian Identity believers. Most of us have heard their proclamations like “the world is being reorganized into a New World Order” often claiming that their enemies are behind it. Some have even claim if they go into battle to re-take America, that if they accidentally kill kids its not worse than unborn babies murdered in abortion clinics. Many of the extremist are very fond of the anti-abortion movement.
One of their most predominate beliefs is the Second Amendment of the Constitution grants them the right to form "militias" of their own. Timothy McVeigh, the Oklahoma City bomber, was a Christian Identity follower who was trained by one of these self-proclaimed "militias," led by a Baptist pastor.
There are many others like the Baptist Preacher, Fred Phelps, (recently mentioned in another post on here) who stated from the pulpit that he prayed for the death of the President every night.. They picket churches, schools, businesses, and funerals against homosexuality. Everyone who does not believe in their ways of thinking is a homosexual or a “Jezebelian” whore.
These organizations and hate groups range from followers of Lyndon LaRouche. (One of the most bizarre, individuals you may ever meet. His preachings are a very good example of what a belief in the Christian mythologies can do to create. pathologically paranoid followers, to something as benign as Jack Chick Publications. This bizarre group publishes comic books that attempt to make its followers believe there is a world-wide conspiracy of "Satanists" and "witches" in America which kidnap, torture, murder, then eat around 300,000 babies. Since there is no evidence, law enforcement agencies are obviously involved in the conspiracy. This cult hates Pagans and Wiccans most of all.
When regular Christians are confronted with these groups they often respond, with, “Oh but they're not TRUE Christians!" or “It's not our business we are true believers, they are just some kooks."
But as a follower of Christ I believe it is everybody’s responsibility to stand up to these people. Learn about them and Expose them in public for what they are.
Often times they are just small out of the way churches but this type of theological BS can creep into the larger well known churches too.
You know these people, you work with them, you live near them and your kids play with their kids sometimes… Most of them appear normal to the casual observer and to their communities. Some of them are right here on gather and don’t seem so strange till you get them to be more detailed in their beliefs.
Do you know, or are you realted to people who follow such beliefs?
What can we do lessen their impact?
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Comments: 127
I am sorry for what will probably be a relatively short repsonse to a very detailed post, but I think that trying to root out racism among religious groups is probably one of the most futile enterprises one can undergo.
I think the best way to kill off this growingly antiquated, tired argument of race is to let it die off naturally with the ever-shrinking population of foks who subscribe to it. It is becoming out of fashion to scream racism in today`s world, where it is quite apparent that the vast majority of us have moved on.
Dexter, I understand your sentiments, but we all discriminate....the question is--under what circumstances, and to what extent?
I think the good ole boy, Jim Crow folk are a dying breed, and it is extremely pessimistic to ignore that, after electing our first black president, we are a society that has made great strides to put the issue of race on ice.
With each new generation, the issues of race become increasingly weaker, so in effect it will die out.
And for those who charge that anyone disagreeing with Obama is called a racist for that disagreement for the most part. Take a look at many of the so called I disagree with him on principal and policy comments. What you will find mixed in the comments are hateful words like he's not qualified, he's elitist, he is a muslim, he's not a citizen of the US, he's pretending to be president (tho he was legally elected), he's trying to take over the country and make it socialist or communist and fascist and any number of other such absurd comments. Why is it if they disagree with him on principle or policies they rarely mention one of these policies? Why is it they so easily accept the most outlandish charges against him yet never as much as let a peep when the previous administration committed even greater offenses?
No, those who so readily charge that many of us call them racist for disagreeing with Obama are wrong. They express their racism quite often but perhaps feel that others are so dumb or ignorant they don't notice the racial overtones they speak. Some post articles with avatars which are horribly disrespectful and often very racial in nature yet are feigning confusion as to how anyone could call them racist. Relating a black man to monkeys or to Hitler is purely racial in nature.
Now lets get to what you said were disenfranchised minorities who are preyed on by the likes of Al Sharpton and others who stir up anger and protest. Why is it that every time I hear such charges I never get a comment which says there should not be a reason for such protest or anger? Why are there such people as Sharpton? BECAUSE THEY ARE NEEDED to keep issues in the forefront. No matter how unsavory or disdainful they may seem to you and others it is difficult to get and keep any issue for minorities out front without such characters and that is an indictment of our society. Why is it you don't speak of the issues but fall prey most times to hating the messenger? When will we stop this outrages wrangling and finger pointing and deal with the issues and stop allowing them to fester like a giant sore spot?
Jim Crow is long from being dead. Though a majority of voters elected a black man for our president far too many have used that as a battle cry to set this country back decades in race relations and many are still fighting the civil war. Its long past time to stop this type cavalier view of racism in the US and deal with the real issues we face.
WIth all due respect, it is your type of mindset that keeps racism alive. If we are so heavily on the offense about seeking out racism, one can literally take just about any comment out of context and call it racism.
I dont know exactly what protestors you have been listening to, and I assure you there are some radical ones out there, but I hear PRECISELY the policies people are rejecting when it comes to Obama. I hear, "I don`t like Obama`s FOREIGN policy, with respect to taking down our missle shield*, or "I don`t like Obama`s policies on unprecedented government spending", etc etc. So, it is unfair and, frankly, untrue that the majority of folks aren`t citing specific reasons why they disagree with Obama.
Yes, comparing Obama to Hitler is flat out ridiculous. But is it racist? Was it racist when democrats compared Bush to any number of equally disgusting things? The point is, when people feel strong enough to create a poster in protest of something, they often use very strong imagery / wordage to get the point across. This is not racism.
I am not going to go into a point-by-point analysis of why Sharpton and the gang are in the wrong. Suffice it to say that when we have a percentage of minorities in the workforce that EXCEEDS the percentage of the population that said minority occupies, then it`s a far cry to say that we have a severe problem with racism in this country, not even considering that our president is black.
As long as good folks like you continue to believe that racism is alive, it most certainly will be.
Of course not... it was redundant. The man killed tens of millions of people for NO FREAKIN' REASON! Exactly WHAT of equivalent evil has President Obama done?
Besides, Shrub was white, and so, in the vast majority, were we. Alleging racism in our criticism of him would have been just a tad silly.
His last statement is a gem:
As long as good folks like you continue to believe that racism is alive, it most certainly will be.
Does that imply racism is NOT alive and well?
So, you mean to say that anyone who opposes Obama lacks intelligence? Come on, man. I gave you too much credit earlier.
Chuck, you made my point even stronger. Of course it wasnt racism. It was criticism--the same type we are seeing from those who oppose Obama.
None of your insipid remarks can be misconstrued as racism. Now, switching the shoe to the other foot and saying the same about Obama...people would be lining up to accuse me of being the headmaster of the Klan.
True there are still Klan members...but we cant keep coming back to the radical minorities--our lowest common denominator--and equating this to a overarching racist sentiment that is sweping the nation.
Does hate exist? You bet....islamic radicals want to see Americans dead. Klan members want to hunt blacks in cold blood. Skinheads would sooner stab a jew than talk to one. Do these pockets of radicals represent the Islamic faith or white sentiment as a whole? Of course not.
So my race immediately excludes me from having an opinion and the ability to express it? Hmmm...sounds a little like racism to me.
Dexter....this isnt a topic about left vs right, republican vs democrat. As far as I could tell, this was a topic on racism. Never once did I mention party affiliation or try to change the argument. I encourage you to do the same.
I am just not about getting on this apologist bandwagon anymore. We all, as human beings, have various obstacles to overcome, and racism is just another example of humanity rearing its ugly head from time to time. I did most of my "growing up" in Myrtle Beach, SC and had a number of black friends and have been privy to racist conversations among white folks and black folks alike. In short, we will always find ways to belittle other people, whether it is the color of their skin, a disability, or the kind of car they drive. It is that unfortunate basic human need to feel superior to someone else.
The truth is that it is impossible to see into someone`s heart to know definitively if one thumbs his nose at another race, religion, or what have you. Therefore, it is careless and irresponsible to accuse someone of being racist just because they happen to disagree with a man of color. This is it.
At what point can we safely say that racism is in the past, my friend? What is it going to take?
And your argument assumes that racism is a function of "being in the minority". This is not true. Blacks discriminate against whiles all the time ...as do hispanics, and every single minority in our great land.
We just need a good ole helping of "get over it" in this country.
Perhaps Jeremy has been reading a much more intelligent group of opposers than I have been and I would like to see some of them to reaffirm there are actually intelligent folks who are in opposition to Obama cause I have been missing them. Like I said the ones I have been seeing don't come close to posting anything with the intelligence he mentioned.
I believe I'm fairly intelligent and am in opposition to Obama. It doesn't have anything to do with race though. I'd be opposed to any president who increased the size of our mercenary armies who are fighting in countries that never attacked us, and any president who increased our military activities in Afghanistan while pretending it's really about terrorism, and expanding the Afghan "war" into Pakistan. Aside from the fact that we're creating many more terrorists than we're killing (which seems to be the excuse for being there, even though nobody killed in Afghanistan, or Iraq for that matter, was involved in the constantly used excuse of 9/11), we're spending a lot of human blood and a lot of money. Our "supplemental" expense for Iraq and Afghanistan for 2008 was greater than the entire defense budget of the next largest nation spender, and Obama is carrying right on with that. Not a matter of race. Obama should be opposed on these grounds!
And yes, LBJ knew exactly what was going on. If you check the audio telephone conversations (Freedom of Information Act) you can hear LBJ talking with Robert McNamera about how to lie to the American public about what was really going on.
Obama is one of a long line of Presidents who have promoted a policy of out and out aggression on other countries. We've been involved in more than 20 wars and military actions since WWII, and we've been lied into every one of them, from the Gulf of Tonkin in Vietnam, to phony stories about endangered students in Granada, phony stories about incubator babies in Gulf War 1, WMD in Gulf War 2, and on and on and on. The phony premise that we need to be fighting in Afghanistan because bin-Laden was there eight years ago is Obama's big lie.
One would hope this would die off naturally, but this has been going on for thousands of years. I don't know the solution but it would help if the media stopped covering their activities. Then it would have a natural death. This is not likely to happen.
I am, however, a woman and have been discriminated against. The largest minority group in the world is women. Race is not even an issue. It is just being of the female gender.
Just my two cents worth, Dexter.
As a Christian our job is to call it out, let it not find a tolerable corner to hide in. IN order to follow Christ, we have to act teh same as He did when he found the money changers!
The two worst of these are my parents. To them, their way is always right and scripture. My brother thinks like this as well. Thinking like this they deliberately hurt everyone in their paths and deem it holy until it happens to them then they don't understand why.
It is because of belief systems such as these that progress continues to lag behind and people like my boys will not see an end to it in their time.
The Christian faith starts with the birth of christ not Adam as the loonies would tell you. Their is nothing violent about the Christian faith teachings.
These people that spout political views to weak people are nothing but wannabe terrorists and should not be ignored. Timothy McVeigh was ignored but you hear him now. Racial bigotry, hell and brimstone preaching is not written down or practiced in any form by the Christian faith. Violence in any form is not part of the Christian writings or practiced in the Christian church. The end timers say their helping god bring in the end of days and call this doing gods work, personally I don't believe god needs any help to accomplish his goal. God did not create people so he could torture them like some nut job pulling wings off flies.
All religious organizations are non profit and its against federal law for them to make public stands on political matters or donate to a political cause or politician through that organization.
The Christian faith does not try to force membership by its followers, free choice has to be maintained or it is meaningless.
Right to lifers are anything but Christians, the faith does not tell anyone to murder another to show their faith. The end does not justify the means.
A lot of the hate, bigotry, racial hate crimes and radical groups sprout up from the hate mongers that infest the GOP that claims to be a Christian following organization but fail to live up to what they give lip service to.
Many good Christians leave their church organization when the radicals take over but still practice their beliefs. Christians are supposed to be able to gather together to find peace and moral high ground without trying to force their belief on anyone but the radicals just preach hate and discontent. Many new churches are started in peoples private homes because they are weary of the nut jobs hate mongering that to many people are ignoring today.
All people including the Jews were given salvation, nobody was asked if they wanted it or not it was freely given to all people then and all that will ever live, the only choice people make is to accept it or deny it and we do this with our actions not our words.
"They'll know we are Christians by our love for one another" is the key. It's not, "they'll know we are Christians by our bombing of abortion facilities or by our persecution of believers in other religions or by our screaming at town hall meetings or by our judgment of homosexuals, or by how we write off the poor by saying how lazy they all are." They'll know we are Christians not by our judging others to be sinners, but how we conduct our lives in a righteous manner knowing full well that we are all sinners.
However, religious tolerance is not what I grew up with. It is something I learned along the way.
Blessings to everyone everywhere.
Certainly, there are many Christians who work hard at helping those in need. And, many Christian churches and organizations are sincere in doing things that make life better for all. But, they are all convinced that they are the one and only religious choice. Anything that threatens that belief is trounced without mercy. Read history, Jack. They are a product of their beliefs. When I heard a Christian minister tell me that all Jews would one day burn in hell, I had to seriously question Christianity and the people who promote it. I'm not anti-Christian. I'm pro-humanity. It is my species. Everyone on the planet matters to me. Christianity does not match up with my values.
Incidentally, as a stately homosexual in America, I have to say that Christians are quite honest when it comes to gays and lesbians. They care little about our lives and are quick to put our lives at risk if given half a chance. That patronizing kind Christian face can be just as evil as the devil himself.
People are part of the problem or part of the solution and religions (their members and preachers) not standing up to hate in their ranks is part of the problem.
2. True Christianity is very different from the tribal identification, described in this article. Actually, though, the true Christian religion was co-opted by Rome, and has been "imperial" ever since. Better to look at the teachings of Jesus, himself.
3. Even "conservatives" were acknowledging racism in America prior to the 2008 election. For example: Dan E. Oct 12, 2008, 11:21am EDT
"I predict a McCain victory,
I think racism is alive and well in our country, I heard that the polls show 9% are going to vote for Obama because he is black and 6% won't vote for him because he is black, I don't think that number is high enough, I don't think that even in an anonymous poll that people will admit their racism."
I live in SE Michigan. I hear private conversations, Anyone who doubts that racism is alive and well is either naive or just plain stupid.
Anyone else?
Surely not if they're black?!?
But, in spite of not being a Christian, I do love my neighbors!
Strange ducks.
Impossible to know when a group of them will "take a stand" about something. The different groups don't care much for each other, that is good, they are unlikely to join together into a large and more dangerous group.
The youngsters in this thread actually believe that eliminating Affirmative Action amounts to killing a form of racism. They think 'we' have 'done enough,' and 'they' ought to be 'grateful,' and let things be for a while. They don't understand that when the Al Sharptons of this world (a despicable man, if ever there was one) are granted media access and access to black congregations, it's because 'we' have NOT 'done enough,' and 'they' don't accept the concept of 'enough' in the first place.
Perhaps a testament to its diminishing pressence in our society? No...couldn`t be that...
Yeah, us young whipersnappers should just keep our dern mouths shut.
You see, the problem with these old people is that they have LIVED through times of racism. They have aat around the bon fire puffing on a joint and talking about revolution in the 60s. They really don`t understand that modern America has moved past a lot of the problems they champion from decades past. Us youngsters have SEEN that racism really doesn`t play a prominent role anymore. They didnt have such a large number of multi-cultural friends and such a large pool of minority races like we do today. We have elected the country`s first black head-of-state, and they still clamour on about old, dead issues.
So, what do you think? Did I nail it, or what?
Timothy McVeigh was an agnostic libertarian not a Baptist or even a Christian.
I wouldn't put much merit in the matter, however. Parents who fail to raise their children well come from many religious perspectives. Many times, it is the overemphasis on religion in the home that creates young adult misfits. Religion can be a healthy piece of one's life or a tool of dysfunction. When adults don't recognize this, they usually find that their religion didn't serve them well. Religion should never cost a lot of money and it should never replace love and caring for children. When it does, the children are the losers.
It is the left that continually tries to divide the country using class, race, income, or whatever. Why isn't that spreading hate and bigotry?
MLK said that we should judge one another by the content of character not by skin color. The only way to make his dream a reality is to start doing it.
The right's fringe guys are in Wyoming or someplace. The left's fringe is in the White House!
I think Ken`s overall point, which can ironically be found at the end of his comment, is that much of this divisive attitude--racism included---is manufactured by the far left fringe to keep us divided and angry rather than united and strong.
Is that about right, Ken?
Ah, but it was OK for Dexter and Robert A. to launch into a discussion about Obama`s foregin policy and the wars abroad? Hate when the logic doesn`t work both ways...
I think Ken`s overall point, which can ironically be found at the end of his comment, is that much of this divisive attitude--racism included---is manufactured by the far left fringe to keep us divided and angry rather than united and strong.
Is that about right, Ken?
Sorry . . . I know about the bigotry in religion. That is why I dropped out. I am a spiritual being and a child of the one God.
I don't know if you consider yourself a Christian, but the Scripture demands that we serve in fellowship with others, connected to a local group of believers (for accountability and training etc). We can't effective serve alone. The truth is you are a child of God, and he wants you to acknowledge that and come home.
Abortion is ok, all businessmen and profit is somehow evil, 'American's chicken are coming home to roost', the Founder's were just greedy rich white men many with slaves, The cops acted stupidly [when they arrested Prof Gates], we can always tax the rich more; - these are all false statements repeated by the left in one form or another that spread discontent and damage the country.
That is not in the bioble.. there is no "demand" in there any where and the comments that rare found that even slightly resemeble what you said are not very exact and oben to interpritation.. what you spraying out here is not Christianity, its doctrinal dogma...
Hebrews 10:24-25 provide reasons to worship/serve/church together:
24 and let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds, 25 not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more as you see the day drawing near.
You know a as well as I that the "I can be a perfectly fine Christian all by myself without fellowship or accountability from others (such as would be found in a local church) are usually excuses guarding on other reasons.
And as usual, you are sidestepping the central issue, namely that of the "island Christian".
There is no need for a bishop, preast, preacher, a deacon or a choir ....tehy only requirement is located withihng the person themselves.
Churches are a requirement of man, not God.... The NT only speaks of organized religion as a tool of choice.
Ever notice how most churches are still SEGREGATED? The megachurches have gotten past that because they're about money so everyone walking in the door is green to them. In my neighborhood, there is an integrated Methodist church that reflects the longtime makeup of the area. Black and white families have intermarried for years here.
But most churches are racially segregated, as they envision Heaven will be.
Over the years I have sat down with many a Southern Baptist Pastor, and it is amazing how they tell very subtle of hand racist jokes. As an example, just a couple of years ago, I was seated next to the Pastor from a Major First Baptist Church in East Texas. this fellow has made public speeches in the are defending accusations of racism by southern Baptist by claiming they would enjoy any Black person to join their church... the reason he says they have none, is that “Blacks don’t want to join, they prefer to be with their own.” But when we was seated next to me, the first thing he did was tell me racist joke. Not a very overt one, but racist none the same.. I said nothing, but did not smile.. he never spoke to me during the rest of the event.
So many of the members left and joined this new Southern Baptist church that was starting up. Not that I was a stranger to racism, but it was the kind born of ignorance and not just hate, but that church with its fire and brimstone was a branch of the KKK as far as I'm concerned. Plenty of nice people there, I had grown up with them, but it was a breeding ground for the evangelical, right-wing insanity we see today.
www.nopom.info
God's Warriors
The more we mix, the more there will be a big brownish population in which there will be no solid color.
I think a lot of the racist attitudes come from people who are afraid of the mixing that is bound to come.
Hi Dexter!!
Hey there Bunny!
;)
Back on track, the short of it is this business group that is using these groups to attack the Anglican Church to the point that some Anglican Churches want to join the Catholic Church, because of the Anglican Churches stance on Women and Gays. This business group is also going after the Lutheran church too. Most folks don’t realize it, but many of what Luther wrote so did Columbagne in the 6th century. Their goal is to weaken moderate churches that follow the social dictums of Jesus Christ. The Beatitudes, Blessed or the Poor in Spirit… , helping the poor, treating all men as your brothers, as Paul and Peter did, Brothers in Christ. Most folks may not realize it, but the Nazi’s hijacked Christianity and reformed it to their own use. They are not just kooks they are far more dangerous. Does not John warn us of them? My advice is to read the Bible, so you know what the Bible really says and what goes against Bible. The Irish saw Christ with unprejudiced eyes. Those folks are prejudice and are working to undermine our Christian churches, so our churches (Christianity) cannot stop them.