FAS condemns the comments of Dr. James Watson

Dr. Watson said he was "mortified" by what happened. Was he mortified that he lost his position or mortified by what came out of his mouth?

Herald Sun article

"To all those who have drawn the inference from my words that Africa, as a continent, is somehow genetically inferior, I apologise unreservedly.

"That is not what I meant. More importantly, from my point of view there is no scientific basis for such a belief."

Seems the FAS is making a mountain out of a mole hiil

If the achievements of Africans have lagged, we should ask the question "how much access have they had to education". The answer, I regret to say, is "not much". There is no problem with their genetics, the problem is one of resources.

Dr. Watson doesn't say that he is wrong. That is the only acceptable reaction. We in America have many African Americans who are of superior intelligence. There is evidence all around about the intellectual skills.

Chris is correct. Discrimination prevents many African Americans from participating fully so we might never know what intellectual prowess lies behind many African Americans. In many African countries there is little access to education. Again, we can't know if we don't try.

I think that when the Chinese colonize Africa we'll see some big changes. Most changes will address the questions of development, medicine, education, and social structure and we'll see some speedy and dramatic progress. The Africans need only a strong hand with a lot of recources and vision to bring them into the 19th century. These the Chinese are only to willing to supply.

Thanks Joe. Let's look at Wangari Mathai, the woman in Kenya who received the Nobel Prize for her work with reforestation. She probably would not have achieved so much in her life if she had not been among the few Africans able to attend a college in the USA.
How about M.L. King, junior? he was racially part african and part caucasian, but he received a very good college education and went out and changed the world. There are a number of these examples that negate the silly opinions of black intellectual inferiority.

Gerald- please, the time for "colonizing" Africa with a "strong hand" is past. Educating Africa, on the other hand, would be great.

James D. Watson:
> "I cannot understand how I could have said what I am
> quoted as having said. I can certainly understand why
> people, reading those words, have reacted in the ways
> they have,"

It sounds to me like this man is having some kind of mental
of medical problem and maybe have expressed something
inappropriate or incorrectly.

Seems like everyone jumping on him and doing the "pile on"
is really not that productive. I wonder what could have
happened here, maybe he has a form of dementia or
something.

Has anyone here every talked with someone with dementia,
and particularly someone who is older with dementia?
Watson is 79. The sometimes make wildly inappropriate
statements. I wonder what any of us would look like if our
innermost thoughts were revealed?

Ivan: I've excerpted some from today's Washington Post:


Bruce Stillman, the president of Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory (where Watosn is the Chancellor), said in a statement Wednesday that his faculty members "vehemently disagree" with the published comments and that the lab "does not engage in any research that could even form the basis of the statements attributed to Dr. Watson."
(FAS Note: Watson has been suspended by the board of Cold Springs).

"Scientific prestige is never a substitute for knowledge," said Elias A. Zerhouni, director of the National Institutes of Health, in his own statement. "As scientists, we are outraged and saddened when science is used to perpetuate prejudice."

Watson has become known for his caustic and controversial comments. In 2000, he said in a lecture at Berkeley that heavy black people have better sex lives than skinny white people. He has said that women should be able to abort homosexual fetuses, and that eugenics could be used to "cure" stupidity or make all girls pretty. In 1998, he predicted a cure for cancer within two years.

The full article is here: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/18/AR2007101801693.html?sub=AR

Good Lord folks, let's burn him at the stake as a heretic. Better yet, we can torture the dude for having an opinion. As scientists, one might remember that "scientists" once believed the world to be flat. Anything short of this was heresy. Let the man speak. Disagree, but let him speak. you sound like frightened clergy at the King's feet. Shut up and disagree, but he owes you nothing. As often as scientists have been wrong, you have no right to censor.

ONe more thing if allowed, as far as not having educational opportunities goes, isn't Egypt in Africa. They seemed to do well enough.

Tell that to the Sudanese, Carol. The lack of opportunity creates most of societal ills. In this country, it is definitely the problem.

Actually Egypt is a mess. They have no freedom of political expression, Mubarak is a president-for-life benevolent dictator, yet there is a thriving subculture of Muslim extremism. Al-Zawahri, bin Laden's #2 guy, is an Egyptian, as was one of the 9/11 suicide crew, Mohammed Atta. They are totally dependent on the Nile River for a desperately poor and uneducated population that is growing at a frightening rate. Part of the reason that Egypt signed the Camp David accord and stepped away from actively confronting israel is that they have far too many problems without having an unending war with the Middle East's most competent military.

Even with all the challenges facing us in the USA, we are light years ahead of Egypt.

I was unaware of this controversy, and reading this article did not alleviate that situation. The article should have included mention of the contents of Dr. Watson's comments so readers could have known what was being condemned by FAS.

Poorly constructed.

Rory, you are right, however if you click on the link Diana has posted you'll find a more cogent explanation.
Here's the Quote of what Dr Watson is purported to have said:
In a Sunday Times interview Dr Watson was quoted as saying he was "inherently gloomy about the prospect of Africa" because "all our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours -- whereas all the testing says not really".

The other thing is that I know I'll get attacked for this but ever
since the Don Imus, Michael Richards and Mel Gibson things I
really think SOME kind of distinction needs to be made for these
different "attrocities".

For instance (wink to Carol) if someone says something desparaging
about some group like Watson did, they should be publically
whipped and humiliatied never to be thought of as human again.

Then if they say something nasty about some particular person
or group they should be tortured or deported.

Then ... if they really are racists, ie. they do something besides
using words or just losing their temper then execution is in order.

Sorry, I am trying to make a little light of this, but I have a hard
time with calling someone a racist because they lose their temper,
utter some rude comment or desparaging idea. People are crude
and rude all the time in private, we seem to be ready to have
rudeness all over when we drive or are in public, why wouldn't
we expect it to debut everywhere else too?

I think of racists as the KKK, the Nazis, skinheads, rednecks, etc.

I think there is little understanding of differentiation of
actions like this. So, my question is what did James Watson
do, what was he guilty of, what damage did he do, and how
is everyone supposed to think of this kind of thing.

I am old enough to remember the controversy around William
Shockley, the co-inventor of the transistor, who talked about
racial differences ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Shockley#Beliefs_about_populations_and_genetics

Is the this whole idea and subject off limits. As a white guy
I have often read that Asians have larger brains on average.
I just bet there is no one who in a circumstance they think is
safe of discreet would not speculate on these ideas, and
they are so seldomly ever discussed of course people are
clumsy at them.

The other thing that any differences are most likely moot
since the overlap of characteristics huge ... just because on
average group a might be in some measured way more
intelligent than group b does not mean that any member
of group a is somehow better or should get more rights
does it?

Anyway ... I wonder about the history of this, why Watson
seems to have said all these things, does he know it or
understand it or not. He still could have dementia, people
can get dementia before well before 80.

There are a number of things that are problematic here.

One: the idea that all humans must be completely equal. Why insist equality, when it is obvious we are not equal? Regional differences make some people very tall, some very short, some skinny, some fat, some black, some white, some swarthy, some bland.

Why must we assume equality of intelligence.

The numbers do not even show that.

Two: the numbers. Though IQ test show some regional and "racial" (whatever that is) differences, we see greater differences attributable to diet, pre-natal care, family structure and even the amount of sleep children get, see Snooze or Lose

Three: Why silence anyone? Isn't science about the freedom to explore ideas, and the freedom to shoot down stupid ideas WITH FACTS and PEER REVIEW?

I find political correctness far more disturbing than an old man with old ideas.

Four: FAS bothers me more than Dr. Watson. We can see who is critiquing Watson, but who is critiquing FAS?

Who is holding these people responsible for their, frequent, stupid comments?

I have met and spoken with Watson in the past. He is a brilliant and dedicated scientist. He has also had a propensity in the past decade or two to speak without thinking. He has said some outrageous things as pointed out by FAS. Sometimes, like his comments about engineering people to be "better", he seems to really believe them. Other times, I believe he really doenst realize what he is saying, as in the present instance.


The reason his remarks have produced such a reaction, is that Watson is the founder of modern genetics, and his comments could therefore be taken by some to indicate that there could be genetic differences between races that explain differences in IQ test results. This is absolutely and clearly not true, which of course he knows as well.

See the Race Myth by Joseph Graves.

I was reading about William Shockley along these lines because I remember his comments back in the 70's I think it was, being a resident of Silicon Valley.

http://www.counter-racism.com/c-r_tv/freeze-it.html

Here is some really inciteful talk, and yet I have to say the conversation was done with calmness and reasonable tone ... which I think would have been very hard. A bit of the way though this it is interrupted by a narrator to talk about Shockley's racism. I thought the original program was quite interesting. As Greg said, why not at least try to look at facts, and not blame people for where their minds may take them ... unless they are putting people in danger or persecuting them or maybe even advocating that? On the other hand in this world it is understandable how people may fear mob action and manipulation.

As the FAS pointed out in a somewhat different way, Watson is a well qualified to speak about perceived mental differences among the races as I am. I was a history major in school. He's a biochemist.

He's entitled to his opinion. I think he's wrong. Scientists who are in a position to make informed judgments think he's wrong. It's not surprising that he was criticized for it. People always provoke responses when they make controversial statements.

You know what's funny - and perhaps scary - Watson, Richards, and Gibson are just famous guys who said what they said in front of others. Who knows what they say behind closed doors!

I've heard ALL sorts of stereotypical things ALL my life - my favorite - you don't LOOK (insert race here). And after a while , the stereotypes get played out in reality and then held up as how "those" people are.

The Egypt comment above was not about CURRENT history but past - they were very advanced by all accounts.

One person's idea of intelligence or education may be solely based on what can be taught or acquired. Many of us have an inborn intelligence. My brother excels at math and can fix anything where I excel at linguistics - we both had similar educational experiences.

If scientists can help a woman conceive a baby, who's to say that they can't also alter the baby's genes to produce that uber-human or that superior drone.

Education is the answer ????

Somehow I seriously doubt this premise, why ???

It has now been DECADES since the western world began to "educate" the African nations about birth control, for many reasons other than just population control.

In spite of this "education," condom use is nearly non existent, and many tribes continue to perform barbaric procedures on their young women, known euphemistically as "female castration."

The birth rate continues to be a major source of their problems, and STDs are another major problem they don't seem to be able to grasp, or effectively put in place.

I'm not sure why everyone seems to believe "education" is a panacea to all the world's problems. If the person one is attempting to "educate" does not care to listen, no amount of "education" will ever "git'er done."

Sorry, I just don't buy it, a lack of education is not the ONLY problem leaving Africa as "the dark continent."

Sadly, there is an acronym many African's use, indicating a resignation to third world status.

TIA, TIA......

I think it's a matter of the man's sensabilities. While a briliant scientist, Watson is socially retarded. His inability to distinguish between the acceptable and the unacceptible reveals a deeply flawed psychi. While I agree that his antagonists could behave more maturely, it is also important that this man be identified as NOT representing those institutions and affiliations he's been known for.

psychi ???? *ROFL*

Dr. Watson, WHAT were you THINKING?!?!

I once read an 18th century geography text which said mankind is divided into 4 races: White, Black, Red and Brown; it went on to state categorically that the White race was superior in every respect. It takes a l--o--n--g time for education to take hold and change cultural habits formed over centuries (or even millenia).

jJack, is derision your only weapon? Maybe you could benefit from a little education, yourself.

Jeannie, is your derision of me acceptable, while mine is not ??? Get a grip girlie, I offered my "serious" opinion FIRST, then I was forced to laugh about one of gather's "correspondents" and his spelling skills.

Maybe you don't read ALL OF THE COMMENTS before you condemn just one ????

Some people really need to lighten up and have a good laugh, rather than always attempting a parental scolding.

Post Script:

James D. Watson, the eminent biologist who ignited an uproar last week with remarks about the intelligence of people of African descent, retired yesterday as chancellor of the Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory on Long Island, and from its board.

After reading the comments here I feel I have to put in my 2 cents as one of those intellectually inferior Africans that Watson was talking about. I have lived, gone to school taught and worked in the US for years, and I will say I'm not surprised by the comments of Dr Watson. Racism is still a fundamental aspect of American society. I have experienced it personally from both official and private sources in its more ambigous as well as blatant manifestations. So I know its there in high places. Whats important is how society responds to it. Contrary to the views of some posters here, the response to Watsons statement by FAS, his employer and others is entirely appropriate!.

Some people here have tried to pass of what he said as just an opinion. As though he was opining about, say, which candidate should win the presidential election. This often happens when somebody says something offensive, some group will say 'its just his opinion, he has a right to say that'. True, Watson has a right to say racist things, and the rest of us have a right to condemn him for that. We are also expressing our opinion about him and what he said. Its our right too!

But what Watson said was not just any opinion. His comments have a context, a history. It is this history that makes what he said special. Many people discussing this try to isolate his comments from this history and so equate them to just any other opinion. But the views Watson expressed come straight out of a long tradition of oppression, slavery, colonization, mass murder even genocide by whites against black. These views formed the rationale for the historical establishment of a brutal reign of terror by whites against blacks. If these views when expressed today by ranking members of society, are treated as just ordinary opinions, then we will create a society that will be a hostile place indeed for black people. It is not so long ago that black people in this country had to contend with lynchings, not so long ago since they had to march in the streets, confront vicious dogs and police to win rights granted to all human beings in the constitution. There are many alive today who participated in these events. This water is not under the bridge yet!

As pertains to Africa and its so called "Dark Continent" status. Please get of your high horses. It is neither your duty nor your responsibility to colonize or educate Africa. What you can do is get out of the way and let Africans take charge of their own destiny. This is what Africans want and have wanted ever since they launched their struggle for "INDEPENDENCE" after the second world war. They have never achieved independence and hence the status of the continent today. This comment is too long already so I will not go into the relevant history. But suffice it to say that the three worst dictators in Africa were probably Bokassa, Mobutu and Amin. All three were recruited trained, promoted and rose to power through the colonial militaries established by the European colonizers. All three came to power by Coup detat supported or directly assisted by western intelligence services. All three found the support of wetern countries instrumental in keeping them in power. All three devastated their country's economies and societies.

As for China colonizing Africa, as an African I have no fear of that. China has traded with and interacted with Africa for over a thousand years, long before Europeans suspected that subsaharan societies existed. There is no recored attempt by the Chinese to colonize Africa in all that time. If you know your history, compared that with the record of Europe in Africa.

emk