It's not a withdrawal, it's the end of the Surge!

Like you said. GW does something he promised and is touted as a hero for doing it.

Well maybe it is something unusual at that. GW actually doing something he promised to do.

Don't you just hate how, over and over, with this crew, we have to remember that figures don't lie, but liars figure?

The problems we face will not be solved by the minds that created them.

Just where are we after last years bravado claim that we had trained 100,000 Iraqi security forces.....could it be the very same place with more dead and maimed troops and Iraqi people and spent a few billion more on no bid contracts. Check out this web site to see what the war has cost your state and county, also scroll to see what could have been accomplished with that money on a personal basis. http://www.nationalpriorities.org/Publications/Local-Costs-of-the-Iraq-War-4.html

Obviously you and chive didn't listen to all of Gen. Petraeus' Testimony. The plan through July is to be back at pre-surge levels. And then a further reduction afterwards, depending on conditions. If you saw his chart that went from leading to partnering to overwatch, it eventually takes us down to almost nothing, and possibly only a regional presence.

But Poliwonk General Petraeus is a liar remember.

This morning on NPR, Petraeus admitted that the actual number of US troops withdrawn will be far fewer than 30,000:

Reporter: It's been said that what you've described is a reduction in 30,000 troops. Is that, in fact, what you –

Petraeus: What I've described is a reduction of five brigade combat teams, Army brigade combat teams, the Marine Expeditionary Unit, which actually is coming out this month without replacement, and two Marine battalions. Now, we want to take out other –

Reporter: That's a little less than –

Petraeus: Well, we have to do the math, candidly. We've got – I have not yet said how many thousands of troops.

Reporter: So when people have said 30,000, they're not quite accurate. It might be 30,000 — it might be quite a bit less.

Petraeus: Well, we've got to determine what it can be.

Its layers about layers of bad decisions made in the regards to this war on terror. Right now all the Bush admistration is doing is waiting to pass this problem to the next presidancy. In the meantime more lives are lost, more money is spent and more people will hate America. Unfortunately this is the guy that repsresents our country even if we don't believe in what he does or says. Gen. Petraeus is just the latest fall guy in the long list of injustice and corruption this presidancy has come to represent.

If the Nazi soldiers decided to keep fighting as insurgents after VE-Day, and were supported by some surrounding countries, we might still be in the middle of WW-II.

Maybe not, since in WW-II we realized that the only way to defeat the enemy is to crush them, which means that a lot of innocent people get hurt or killed.

So, there are really only two options ...
1 - Relentless bombing and fighting in Iraq, Iran and Syria and possibly other countries.
2 - The slow process of search and kill/capture the insurgents.

The ficticious third option -- immediate pull-out is not an option. Neither party wants to do that. They want to make the other party do that because the party that pulls out of Iraq and Afghanistan will be blamed for the ensuing disaster.

Unfortunately, both republicans and democrats would rather see the other party humiliated rather than do something that will benefit the nation or the world.

I am a republican and I support GWB, but I have no doubt that if this happened during Clinton's presidency and he took the exact same action as Bush, he would get the same treatment from republicans that Bush is getting from democrats.

Jennifer- Yes, I do not consider Petraeus to be either incompetent or dishonest. He is putting the best face on a bad situation, that's what you do when you are not in charge and want to keep your job. It is Bush I blame for several things, chiefly prizing loyalty above competence and constantly keeping the partisanship pot boiling. He was recently sent a list of judges agreed upon by both the Virginia Senators, one Republican and one Democrat, and he nominated somebody not on the list. At this point I think he just is what he is, the leopard does not change his spots.

"President George is busy explaining that he is a caring and thoughtful guy.." Again I urge everyone not to drink the kool aid. This is a .........person, who while Governor a lady on Death Row in Texas requested to speak with him. Granted I don't think it is at all uncommon for a governor to deny such a request and I don't even see a problem with it. But a reporter was talking to him and he brought it up. The reporter asked "What do you think she would want to say to you?" His reply with a smirk and sophmoric facial expression and whine "Please don't kill me." He has no compassion for people as a whole. Only those he likes. Again I restate, I don't think it was wrong or uncommon for him to deny the request to speak with her. I think it was horrible how he responded to the question of the reporter. Tasteless, tacky, thoughtless, and then some. But compassion and caring does not apply to a man who will ruin careers of hard warking, intelligent, dedicated employees who don't give him the answers he wants. A man who has stated that all Jews are going to hell. A man who made it so that in the state of Texas when you are being provided counsel (per Miranda) they have something like 20 or 21 days to assign one to you, as opposed to the national average of 72 hours. A man who sat back and watched as mentally retarded prisoners were executed, all the while Texas having a lower IQ standard for these cases than the national, some did not understand what it meant to be executed or why they were being executed. Take the guy who desparately tried to learn to read because he thought he was in jail and to be executed because he couldn't read. Another who asked the clergy what he should wear to go to his own funeral, as if he were going to be alive to go to it. Or the one who saved his pudding (dessert for his last meal) and as he was being taken to the chamber a guard asked why he didn't eat it and he replied "I'm saving it for later" A man who would not sign a hate crime bill because it also included sexual orientation.

I believe that if you are a Born Again God Fearing Christian, who can contrinute $$$ to him, and believe his word to be gospel, then he might care. I don't think compassion would be given because if you are all that then what could be wrong (in his opinion)?

berf- ha, funny stuff!- looking back at my title, I suddently realize it is rather suggestive. That was not intentional.

I too am amazed that there are still folks, even if they are Republicans, who continue to support this president. Of course I was amazed any one wanted to support him in the first place. I remember the savings and load debacle he was involved in back in the 80's, remember that anyone. His old man had his fingerprints all over bailing him out of it too. The Bush family has had this country bent over so long, I think some believe it feels good.

Dan wrote: "I have no doubt that if this happened during Clinton's presidency and he took the exact same action as Bush, he would get the same treatment from republicans that Bush is getting from democrats."

Happened with Johnson, didn't it?

The entire family is mean.

Clinton took plenty of criticism from the Republicans when he went to Bosnia and they had a field day with the Somalia debacle.

This war, however, is different. It is really is a tremendous mistake. We will be there for many years to come and it never had to be. Iraqis did not attack us -it has nothing to do with the war on terror. In fact, there is no rhyme or reason for being in Iraq at all.