To spank or not to spank?

i personally think that should not have the right to spank kids. I know that I did not like to get spanked when I was a kid. But time out do not usually work. So what do you do with a generation of kids growing up to be spoiled rotten kids?

umm not in this situation no. His mom was doing her job by placing him back in the playpin.. now I think it would have been okay for the mom to do it but not your mom.

what gets me is when "some" people spank my kids or slap their hand for something when they DO NOT do that to their kids! That makes me the maddest!

sometimes a spanking is needed and he clearly needed one here which it worked and got his attention but the mom should have done it.

At that age, a swat on the butt makes more noise (if it's on a diaper) than it hurts. But it was the mom's job to do.

It was his Mom's job to do it - but the spanking on his little diapered padded bottom was not such a bad thing. It did get his attention to stop.

Nobody touches my kids - it's not their place to do so!

I'm not big on spanking my kid but sometimes I just have to do it to get him under control. I don't however think it is anyone elses place to spank your kids that should be left solely to the parents of the child.

I think she crossed the line there...if his mom didn't spank him then he just wouldn't have gotten spanked...annoying but I don't feel its anyone else' place to spank a child..

If I were your sister, I would have swatted him when he got out the first time.

Your mom and sister should work out who can/will punish him before he needs it and then follow through with whatever they decide. Your mom will need to respect your sister's wishes, but if your nephew becomes a brat she could decide not to have him in her home.

I don't think your mom should have spanked him, but he did pay attention to it, obviously the word no, or time out is not a great learning tool for him. Perhaps your sister needs to discipline him in another way that gets results. I don't think a pat on the padded diaper is abuse of any kind, and this whole thing of not spanking started with dear old Dr. Spock back in the fifties I think, and soon a lot of people couldn't understand why their kids didn't listen to them, and by the time they were teenagers, were into all kinds of trouble. rules and guidelines have to be established and followed through. I gave many a soft pat on the behind, never enough to injure them in anyway, and it sure got their attention. Later on, when they could better understand, they learned to listen when they were told right from wrong. The terrible twos, named that for a good reason, is when you either get control or lose it forever in my opinion. Did your sister object to the pats your mother gave, perhaps they have an agreement between them. My self, in this case, two times you get put back in and the third time you know not to do it, like in a game, you're out.

I'm with Susan B: "If I were your sister, I would have swatted him when he got out the first time. Your mom and sister should work out who can/will punish him before he needs it and then follow through with whatever they decide. Your mom will need to respect your sister's wishes, but if your nephew becomes a brat she could decide not to have him in her home."

Without knowing what relation your mom is to this child that is hard to say, but generally speaking nobody has a right to spank a child that is not their own. The child did need one though but it should have came from the mother. More to the point though is the fact that the mother is the one that really needed the spanking. This child is less than 2 years old and he is already running the household. She needs spanked for letting a child of 2 decide what he is going to eat. A child of that age does not know what is good for him. That is the mother's job. She should be making sure her child is getting a well balanced meal and sugary snacks should be kept to a minimum. If that was my child he would never have gotten one foot out of that playpen without my knowing it let alone got all the way out. If she can't control this child now she is heading for real trouble very soon. This sounds like an awful situation. This woman needs serious parenting classes.

It is NEVER permissible to strike a child. That only teaches an unruly child to be unruly AND aggressive.

Way back when my oldest was a toddler my mother was trying to give her a bath and my daughter wasn't cooperating. So my mother gave her a swat on her bare behind, and then told me about it. I told my mother to never hit my child if she wanted to see her again.

So that's my answer. Notice how I ducked the larger question of whether it's ever okay to spank a child. [huge, evil grin]

Yes, totally. The little brat was being defiant. Defiance is the most important time to spank kids under age 6.

His mother needed a swat for:
1. Letting him make a pig of himself with the cookies. They were meant for everybody.
2. Not controlling his aggressive behavior. Hitting another person it totally unacceptable.
3. Not making him eat healthy food.
4. Not spanking him herself.

I am all for it as long as you try other things first. sometimes a kid needs that to see you mean business.

I don't know; I don't have children, but they must be taught to behave.

Hmmm.....it's interesting to read people's responses to spanking, which usually come from their own upbringing.

But, another way to look at "spanking" is just to recognize it for what it really is. It's HITTING. Doesn't matter who does it. It's hitting another human being.

So, let's ask ourselves, "What does this teach a child?" since most proponents of hitting a child will say that it does them "good" and "teaches them a lesson":

1) it teaches a child that to get what you want, all you have to do it hurt/hit another human being;
2) it teaches a child that their parents hit other human beings, so it must be right;
3) it teaches a child that since their parents say they love them, and then they hit them, then love=pain and hurt.
4) it teaches them that humiliation in front of others is something that is acceptable and good, even if it is you they are humiliating, so maybe you're not really worth NOT being humiliated and being respected.

So, put yourself in the child's place. It doesn't matter how old you are. The person who you love MOST in the world, the person on whom your entire safety and security rests, the person who tells you that you mean more to them than anyone else hits, smacks, spanks, pulls, yanks, belts, etc. you (whatever term you want to use...it's still violence). You grow up thinking that it is "normal" to cause pain to the ones you love the most....even physical pain.

A study just came out that related children who were spanked as children as a way of achieving discipline with high levels of violent sexual behavior. When you are a child and you equate love with pain, then as an adult it is a natural progression to equate sex with pain, since sex is often an expression of love.

I really wish adults would look at this issue logically, stop hurting their own children in the name of "love" just because that's what their parents did, and start to treat their children with respect. There are successful, non-violent ways of disciplining your children at every age.....it's just plain easier to hit and take out your own frustration and emotions on a helpless child.

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I have never once spanked my daughters. I don't feel that spanking will ever help situation. When i was growing up I was hit with everything my father could get his hands on from a metal pole to a wire brush. I think anytime you hit a child it teaches them that it is okay to hit when you are angry. I also know that as a parent you get really angry but you have to find another way to deal with it. My daughter's mom use to really smack her hard and would leave marks all over her back. She was doing the same thing that her parents did to her so that makes it okay. I asked her then you liked it when your parents did that to you and she said no. Then why put your kid through the same thing.

Discipline isn't meant to be liked. And there is a huge difference between rational spanking in cases oof defiance under age 6 and temper-tantrum attacks.

The very few times I've spanked a child has only been a swat on the bottom. My children when they were little and my grandchildren. I've been known to tell other people to control their kids or leave. I won't put up with a sassy or defiant child.

I too don't have children but I know how my mother brought us up 'the four sblings'....

May have different opinions but all kids are a replicas of their parents (model - mentors) And even if they are below the age of uderstated understanting they still follow the animal instincts, are also capable of following if taught by parents who should acquire that degree of urgency to be disciplined in their behaviour pattern and be more remaining alert to observe their child's behaviour pattern in time to punish and reward to get them establish the unsaid rule good from bad automatically work as your relex actions work naturally following your pattern of gene-cells ingrained .....

My nephew too is turning just like his mother ways greedy that sometimes (most of the times) it shows and every time he is overlooked as we two half-century + old aunts now cannot do anything bcoz fo the possessive attitude of our selfish sister-in-law sneakes and snares at him without any reason but just only reason that he should listen to her, attending to her orders staying separate in the same house .... And whenever need be take advantage 'aunt' of the need to spend on his expensive hobbies and not bear a word of advice or suggestion to ponder scared to be guilty to have not making little sacrifices my mother made to train and discipline with true sincerity, faith, persisting patience and also using common sence of self-dignity !!!

A good swat on a bear butt does wonders for children who do not listen to what they are being told!! Though, I think it was Patrick's mothers' place to do the spanking.

Good article, Amy! :)

No, your mother should not have spanked someone else's child. I don't even believe that a grandparent has the right to spank their own grandchild. It is up to the parent to disciplinle the child. If the child is so out of hand that it is disrupting your party or causing you upset (hitting you) you can always ask the parent to take the child outside or even home. Obviously this entire scenerio was the mother's doing by overloading her toddler with sweets on an otherwise empty stomach.

thanks everyone for your great advice. I will talk to my cousin and hopefully she will learn how to discipline him bettter. i will also talk to my mom and find out why she needed to spank and ask her not to do it to Patrick.

I think it was his mother's place to take care of him. It should have started by feeding him a good meal before they got there. If that just wasn't possible then she should have fed him properly once at the party. Since these things didn't happen and he became unruly, it was her responsibility to control him. If she could not get control, she needed to leave.
It shouldn't have been up to your mom to take control by spanking.

I would have to say that a spanking is ok to be done by the parent. In general though (and this is a note to all you parents out there) it is a wonderful idea to make sure you are not angry when you do this. Anger makes the spanking harder and impares your judgement. If ever available, send the child to a quiet place, calm yourself down, and then give a spanking if you still believe it to be required.

I think that your mum was doing the right thing. As my Grandma always says: if you can't effectively discipline your child, others will have to do it for you. There may be different takes on the issue, but I grew up with the concept of "spare the rod and spoil the child" deeply ingrained in me.

I think the spanking should be left to the parents.

So... is she his grandma or aunt or something? Is there an established relationship there? If not, then I think she overstepped her boundaries. His mom may have been doing an ineffective job of disciplining her son, but he is HER son, and not your mom's.

I think the better action would have been to tell the Mother, "If you cannot or will not control your child you will have to leave. we don't allow assault from or by ANYONE."

but of course THAT would have violated the womens' consensus

I think he needed a swat sure, but it should have come from his own mother...I know there are alot of people who don't believe in spanking, but look at how the majority of kids act now! if they had been brought up with it the way my generation was, we'd have a generation of much better behaved kids! I got a spanking here and there when I was a kid, and I turned out to be a very well-adjusted adult...I'm not saying beat your kids, but a whack on the butt or the hand would stop alot of bad behavior from getting worse...

There are several factors here that could be addressed. However, I think the grandparent does not have the right or the privilege to spank a child. She was wrong to do so for a number of reasons.
This little boy was in a no win situation and he needed room to run. The person who was being hit needed to state in no uncertain terms," do not hit me, I do not like to be hit."
The little boy really needed to go home or be in a less stimulating environment. Especially after he was allowed to eat so many rich cookies. While the sugar may or may not have been a factor (this is a different discussion), the fact that he was permitted to eat all of the cookies is a parenting issue that speaks to who is in charge. He clearly believed he was in charge by the fact he was allowed to eat the cookies. Why would he believe being put in time out was any form of discipline. He could escape and he continued to get the attention he wanted. Any attention whether good or bad is some attention and he clearly wanted attention.

First of all, studies do NOT support the notion that children get hyper from sugar. There may be a very few who have a sensitivity, but they are the exception, not the rule. Anecdotal reports about kids getting hyper from sugar usually fail to take into account that highly stimulating situations are usually ones that have sugar available. It's the stimulation, not the sugar.
Second, what Mom did was NOT a time-out. The child should have been removed from the group and taken somewhere by himself (with Mom to supervise, of course). Time out is not supposed to be a punishment. It's supposed to be a chance for the child to regain some control. Time out, when used properly, is very effective, even with children who are more defiant than most.
Removing the child from the immediate environment would also have taken care of my "Third," which is that all behavior has a purpose. Every single thing that any of us does is aimed at either getting something that we want or avoiding something that we don't want. The child was getting a LOT of attention for misbehaving. As adults, it's hard to understand, but to a child, any attention is better than nothing. That's one reason that kids push our buttons. When we are angry with them is often the only time that they really have our full attention. When we are angry with them, we focus on them. That little boy was center-stage for an extended period of time. Taking him to another room would have removed his audience and his reason for acting out. It would also have broken the cycle...sometimes children really don't know how to stop a behavior until something (a time-out, a swat on the bottom, etc) makes them stop.
Finally, positive reinforcement is a wonderful tool for getting kids to want to behave. Too often, we don't even notice when the kids are being good. We don't notice them at all until they misbehave. If we give them the attention they need when they're being good, they want to be good.
And no, I don't believe in spanking. It's an abuse of power...it actually does more psychological harm to the spanker than it does to the child. You can control a child without hitting them.

I was a Patrick growing up. I wish someone woul have spanked me. I got a LOT of "phoney" time outs and didn't give one lick. I was selfish, spoiled, immature, and at times down right hateful.
I have six kids of my own and they are the most loving, well behaved kids. Guess why? If they don't comply with time out, the get spankins! I rarely have to do it, but believe me I will! I think your mother had good intentions. I do allow my parents to spank my kids, however as we already established, they really don't. And if my kids do misbehave, they are usually with one of them!!!!!

Theresa deserved the punishment for allowing him to eat so much sugar. Patrick was a victim. Spanking and hitting are actions adults resort to when they don't know any better ways to discipline a child. Hitting only teaches kids that if someone doesn't do what you want, you can hit them.
Time out is a tough punishment. If the child gets up 100 times, put him back 100 times.
Set the timer and he must remain until the bell rings. No ifs, ands or buts. He will learn to accept it.

Absoultly His mother's discipline was neither effective nor working she was not forceful in meaning it and he well knew it. His grandmother had every right to smack his bottom. She is the mother of the mother and this naughty child needs to learn manners and respect of his elders no matter who they are. If Grandma did not smack his butt and mom won't then one of these days a policeman is going to do a lot worse than that. Time out does NOT work for many children. Nor does a parent, grandparent or guardian have time to put them in time out 100 times especially when watching 3-4 other kids and trying to fix dinner, or other things. This nation and the world has lost touch with realtiy. The bible tells us in more than one place if we DO NOT spank our children WE DO NOT LOVE them. I think God who is the creator knows what he is talking about and knows exactly what human beings need in the way of discipline as children. So who are we to argue or reason with his word and his bible. Do what he says it works. A child taught early on by a couple of swats that mean what your saying is more effective and gets a lot faster results. I know of two different mother's who wish to this day they had used the spanking method with the sharp word NO because in both cases the child did not listen, respond or behave and kept getting out of time out or doing what they wanted like a game and both mother's lost a child for that reason. One said I wish I had spanked my son like you did your kids and meant NO when I said it my son might be alive today. He was eight and laughed at her and rode off on his bike right into an oncoming car, The other child was five and she thought it was funny to pay on the railroad tracks that went past the house. It cost her life. Her mother screamed no no no get off the tracks she just kept laughing and wouldn't move. Her mother could not reach her in time. She was on the porch and ran like crazy but it was too late. So don't tell me a swat on the bottom should not be given by a teacher, grandparent, or other relative or babysitter if really needed and hitting is a very good reason to do so. One other child I know my cousin lost his eye due to a sibling not minding and do as they pleased. After that his mother and dad walloped the bottom when the kids hit or did something dangerous or disrespectful or pure wrong like stealing.

Proverbs 1: 7 the Fear of the Lord is the beginning of Knowledge, but fools despise wisdom in instruction. Vs 8; My son hear the instruction of your father and do NOT forsake the law of your mother. Proverbs 6:16-19 talk of the seven things that God hates and are an abomination to him. They are sound principles we should use even if you DON'T believe in God it is doing unto others.

Proverbs 10:13 Wisdom is found on the lips of him who has understanding, But a ROD is for the backside of him DEVOID of understanding! (lacks heart)

Proverbs 13: The person who spares his rod, hates his child, but he who loves his child disciplines him promptly, Proverbs 19: 18 Chasten your son while there is hope, and do not set your heart on his distruction. Proverbs 20:11 For even a child is known by his deeds by whether what he does is pure and right, 12 the hearing ear and the seeing eye the Lord has made them both. Proverbs 23:13 Do not withhold correction from a child, if you whip him with a rod he will NOT die. 14, You shall whip him with a rod and deliver his soul from hell. Proverbs 26:3 A whip for the horse the ass and a rod for the backside of fools ; Proverbs 28: 5 Evil people do not understand justice, But those who seek the Lord understand it all. Proverbs 28:24 Whoever robs his father or mother and says "it is no transgression" the same is a companion of a destroyer. Proverbs 29: The rod and reproof give wisdom but a child left to himself to himself brings shame to his mother. vs 17. Correct your son and he will give you rest and give delight to your soul. Proverbs: A son nor a servant will not be corrected by mere words, for though he understands, he will not respond,

This child knew he was doing wrong, his mother knew it. Society knows it. It was not okay, time out does not work. Anyone arguing a spanking is not the way to go is not a true Christian of the heart. Your argument is with God and his word but then man kind since Adam has never wanted to listen to or obey God's word. Rebelling against the creator and God the father. The mother of the boy and the boy were not HONORING the Grandmother worthy of double honor for being the elder I Tim5:17, I Tim 5: 1-4; We are to love one another as God loves us this child nor his mother was showing love to the rest of the family sister/aunt, grandparent with the method of ineffective discipline being displayed Rom13.4, John 15:12, Matt 22:37-40

So if you say a parent or grandparent should not use a rod or hand on the backside bottom of a child, your saying it is okay to break God's laws and that man's laws are above God and his laws. Daniel did not think so and did not obey the laws of man he was thrown in the Lion's Den, His friends Shadrack, Meschech and Abednigo were thrown in a firey furnace. Joseph fled from his mistress who was wrong and was punished thrown in prison for obey God and not man's laws.

I don't care if the law of man and society says don't when God's word and law says do. I will take the consequences of society who rebel against God and his laws and obey HIM and his word, his laws first and foremost and when you say the child should not have been spanked by anyone or by grandma your showing how rebellious you are against God's authority and laws. Of course of you don't believe in God this should not matter to you even though the consequences eventually will be God's dealing with you for your rebellion or society. Or both.

Thanks everyone for your wonderful words of advice. I will talk to my mother about spanking the child. I do not think that she should of hit Patrick and I do not like the fact the fact that she might spank another child. As for me I was grown up with getting spankings which only made my behind sore and my brain think twice about getting spanked. I find that I really did not learn anything when I got spanked. I hated it but I never really learned the leasons I was suppose to learn. Maybe because my mom was leanet and her dad was the one that gave spankings. It is just weird to see that time out arre not working with this kid. Although he is two and everything is to him his the big word "NO". I feel that he just dose not understand yet that he needs less sugar. I believe Theresa dosen't really understand how to take care of him yet because her mom is doing the raising right now until Theresa is and find a better safer place to live. she also needs a job. Thansk everyone for your great information.

Personally, I think the child's parents should have been spanked! They created the situation!

Your mother acted as needed in the absence of proper parenting...Frankly, if he had hit me, I would have hit him back!

Just my opinion...

"Raise up the child in the way they should go..."

Spanking may not be the preferred method...but if parents are ignoring their role, then the child needs to begin to understand what the word NO means!

I think in general it all depends on the child. Some children respond well to time outs and other measures. Some do not. I think spanking should only be used as a last resort and the child should always be told exactly why it happened.

spank i say

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