• Home
  • Friends
  • Groups
  • Share

SIGN IN | HELP
poemcentral.gather.com
  • group home|
  • featured|
  • posts|
  • photos|
  • videos|
  • members
by Edward Nudelman
Member since:
January 17, 2006

Poems on Poems

September 10, 2007 09:39 AM EDT (Updated: September 10, 2007 09:40 AM EDT)
views: 561 | comments: 123

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

POETRY CENTRAL   Volume 3, Number 5   ~Poems on Poems~

  

A poem should be motionless in time
As the moon climbs,

Leaving, as the moon releases
Twig by twig the night-entangled trees,

Leaving, as the moon behind the winter leaves.
Memory by memory the mind--

A poem should be motionless in time
As the moon climbs.
  

Excerpt from Ars Poetica, , 1926, by Archibald MacLeish

 

  

There is a fascinating body of poetry that looks inward into its own craft and asks the unanswerable question, what is poetry?  These poems, perhaps self-conscious, often purposefully pretentious, and certainly noticeable in their peculiar form and voice, have much to teach us about what makes a poem a poem.  What are the distinctions?  What are the qualities in a poem that leave us breathless, caught up in the transport of an image away from our accustomed vantage and reference points, that lead us into new, unfamiliar territory?   

 

Many great poets have written poems on poems.  I’ve taken a look around and chosen some examples that I think will interest you.  As well, I offer one of my own to chew on.  Hopefully, this will inspire you to think about your craft, not only in writing poems, but prose as well. 

 

Robert Frost once said, “Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words.”  In looking at what poets have said about poetry in their poems, a striking number have dealt with the effect of words on an individual’s feelings and the resultant impact on all of the senses.  It is true, I think, that poetry accentuates the moment in its form, by nature given to brevity (when compared to prose).  Perhaps it is this punctuation of the moment that arms the poem to eventually fire rockets into our emotional being. 

 

A poem can shoot off a receptor in the brain with two well-placed words; and, at least with me- I rarely see it coming.  This unanticipated dart to the soul is what I love about poetry.  Frank O’Hara (1926-1966), a wonderful poet out of the New York School, put it this way:

  

My Heart, by Frank O'Hara 

 

I'm not going to cry all the time
nor shall I laugh all the time,
I don't prefer one "strain" to another.
I'd have the immediacy of a bad movie,
not just a sleeper, but also the big,
overproduced first-run kind. I want to be
at least as alive as the vulgar. And if
some aficionado of my mess says "That's
not like Frank!", all to the good! I
don't wear brown and grey suits all the time,
do I? No. I wear workshirts to the opera,
often. I want my feet to be bare,
I want my face to be shaven, and my heart--
you can't plan on the heart, but
the better part of it, my poetry, is open.

from poemhunter.com

  

Probably my favorite quote on the power of a poem to elicit an emotional response comes from Robert Frost, who said, simply, “A poem begins with a lump in the throat."  Often, this kind of response can come from the majesty and sound of words linked artfully together by a master poet.  Alexander Pope (1688-1744) wrote a superb poem on the effect of the spoken word in poetry on the senses, entitled, Sound and Sense, which begins:

  

True ease in writing comes from art, not chance,
As those move easiest who have learned to dance.
'Tis not enough no harshness gives offense,
The sound must seem an echo to the sense...

  

The sense of sound in poetry is paramount.  When all else fails, it is often the pure sound of a great poem that grabs us and prompts our emotions.  This lyrical quality is something poetry can claim as a distinctive.  Not all poems, obviously.  But I’ve often sat in front of a poem trying to figure out what it was that I liked so much about it, and then finally realized it was simply the beauty of the words put together in a magical way.    

 

What about the obtuseness found in some poetry?  How many of us have thrown up our hands (versus our lunch) and remarked, what in the world is this poem talking about?  Have you read any Wallace Stevens lately?  Or what about T.S. Elliott?  If so, then try some excerpts from the following two compelling poems on for size and tell me if you feel any better.

  

Introduction to Poetry (excerpt), by Billy Collins

 

I ask them to take a poem
and hold it up to the light
like a color slide

or press an ear against its hive...

 

But all they want to do
is tie the poem to a chair with a rope
and torture a confession out of it.

They begin beating it with a hose
to find out what it really means.

 

My Poems, by Robert Currie. 

My poems
are slim bombs
craving explosion
Their fuses lie
dark on the page
awaiting your arrival with a light.

Appears in a text book, Literary Experiences, Vol. I by Oster, Iveson and McClay (in the section entitled "To the Student")

  

So what is poetry?  I imagine there are as many answers to that question as there are readers.  However, in examining poems written by well-known poets on what comprises the essence of their craft, I’ve been happily surprised by what I’ve encountered.  A striking poem on this topic comes from Wallace Stevens (1879-1955), who saw and felt his way through poetry, in the delineation of the imagery of ideas and the effects of those ideas on the senses.   Stevens said of modern poetry, “…[it is] the poem of the mind in the act of finding what will suffice.”   His sardonically honest poem, “Poetry is a Destructive Force,” brilliantly captures one quality of poetry that is incontrovertible:  its potential influence and power over the reader.

  

Poetry is a Destructive Force, by Wallace Stevens

 

That's what misery is,
Nothing to have at heart.
It is to have or nothing.

It is a thing to have,
A lion, an ox in his breast,
To feel it breathing there.

Corazon, stout dog,
Young ox, bow-legged bear,
He tastes its blood, not spit.

He is like a man
In the body of a violent beast
Its muscles are his own...

The lion sleeps in the sun.
Its nose is on its paws.
It can kill a man.

poemhunter.com

  

Marianne Moore (1887-1972), was a Pulitzer Prize winning American poet who was influential in the early writing careers of many young poets who went on to become great American poets, including Elizabeth Bishop, John Ashbery and  James Merrill..  The following poem is astounding in its clarity and understanding of the nature and distinctive qualities in poetry that make it interesting and appealing.  I highly recommend reading it a number of times. 

  

Poetry, by Marianne Moore

 

I too, dislike it: there are things that are important beyond all this fiddle.
Reading it, however, with a perfect contempt for it, one discovers that there is in
it after all, a place for the genuine.
Hands that can grasp, eyes
that can dilate, hair that can rise

if it must, these things are important not because a high sounding interpretation can be put upon them but because they are

useful; when they become so derivative as to become unintelligible,

the same thing may be said for all of us, that we

do not admire what

we cannot understand: the bat,

holding on upside down or in quest of something to
eat, elephants pushing, a wild horse taking a roll, a tireless wolf under

a tree, the immovable critic twitching his skin like a horse that

feels a flea, the base-

ball fan, the statistician--

nor is it valid

to discriminate against "business documents and

schoolbooks"; all these phenomena are important. One must make a distinction
however: when dragged into prominence by half poets, the result is not pretty,
nor till the poets among us can be

"literalists of

the imagination"--above

insolence and triviality and can present

for inspection, imaginary gardens with real toads in them, shall we have

it. In the meantime, if you demand on one hand,

the raw material of poetry in

all its rawness and

that which is on the other hand

genuine, then you are interested in poetry.

poemhunter.com  

  

Finally, if you’re not yet worn out, I close with a little poem of my own, which was entered into a contest on this very theme, poems on poems.  Let me know what you think of it, as well as any other poems mentioned in this article.  I’m especially interested to hear your thoughts about what makes a poem a poem, or what is poetry?  I’m sure you won’t have any trouble answering in the tiny comment boxes below!  If you get exasperated, don’t fret.  Write a poem (see below)!

 

How to Write a Poem, by Edward Nudelman

 

First, arise very early in the morning.  Brush your teeth

and floss (if you forgot last night).  No wait.  First drink

a cup of dark black coffee on a couch, alone, while you

gaze out the window and watch the school kids march

solemnly to St. Catherine’s.  Strike that.  Better to first

open the window, then you may catch that beautiful

mockingbird song (or, if not there, imagine that you hear

ithe mockingbird).  If today is a warm August morning,

(which it is not, for me) you may be able to pick up the

pungent orange blossom which can coat your tongue with

enough perfume to literally exclude the need to brush

your teeth (this is a lie).  If no birds are singing, try to find

the sound of rustling wind.  And don’t forget, if the school

kids are walking by, you may be able to see them slowly

proceeding in single file (if your sidewalk is very narrow). 

When you see them, quickly close your eyes and remember,

these are the moments of your life.  Now, it’s probably past

your cutoff point, so quickly go upstairs and brush your

teeth (if no orange blossom).  Steel yourself for the day. 

Remember that Susan has been going through hell with the

loss of  your dog (as have you, but that pertains to other

poems); see if you can think of something nice to say to her

that might comfort her, give her solace, or prepare her for

what looks like a pretty difficult day.  (Note that these

notions are platitudes, but milk them for all they’re worth).

Hold Susan, and say, “I’ll come home for lunch today, if I

possibly can,” knowing that you certainly cannot.  Strike that. 

Simply say, “I love you dear.”  Then kiss her on the very

top of her nose.   Drive to work, trying to find a song that

you can cling to.  Work.  Look for that meager scrap of

paper in the pile in front of you that will free you from the

dread of all the other pieces of paper in front of you.  Eat

lunch in your meeting.  On the way home, take the car to

the dealers for the umpteenth time in the last month.  Yell

nicely at the clueless manager.  Hold that thought.  Just

threaten him with a lawsuit.  That always works.  Drive

home in the rental car.  Give Susan the flowers you forgot

to buy.  Greet the dog you no longer have.  Sit back on

your couch, where earlier you couldn’t hear the mockingbird,

and remember, as best you can, what that sound did for you

last summer, when everything else was just wind and smell

and moments piling on top of themselves.  Like school

children in a straight line.  Now write the bloody poem.

 

____________________________________________

Written by Edward Nudelman, Books Correspondent for POETRY CENTRAL

Keep up with Ed’s other posting and Gather activity by joining his Gather network-just click here and select the orange “Connect” button on the left-hand side of the page.

You can also find also find a convenient index to all of the POETRY CENTRAL articles published on the Books Channel by simply clicking here.

view all photos
You need the latest Adobe Flash Player.
Install the player now
Expand Tags: books correspondent, poetry central, poetry, poems on poems, writing
Expand To Groups: *Inspiration Station*, .....The Poetry Review....., .....The Writers Review....., Amusing Musings, Art and Cultural History, Books & Writing Corps, Celebrate Life!, Experimental poetry, First Time Writers., Following a Passion, For the Love of Free Verse, Free Thinking, Gather Bloggers, Gather Books Essential, Gather Writing Essential, Just Write!, Light of Poetry, Love, Many Memes Ago, Nonconformists, Old Hippie's Corner, originalpoetryaspirants, Our Soul Journey, P O E M Central, Parables and other Life Lessons, Poems In The Sand, Poet's Passion, Poetic expressions, Poetic Incarnations, Poetically Incorrect, Poetry, Poetry Express, Poetry of peace and joy, Poets and Writers, Poets, New and Old, PoetsRUS, ! Post Office @ Gather Town !, Preserve The History and the Memories, Random Musings, Road Not Taken, shortest of verses, Slices of Life, Social Consciousness, Spiritual Living, spiritual poetry, The Circle of Life, The Critics' Corner, The Family Diner, The Open Journal, The Renewed Activist, The Writin' Wombats, Things that make you go hmmm..., thought provoking, Transformations, Virtual Muse, What's on your Mind, Word Painting, Words and Language, Writing for Inner Peace, ~Writing from the Heart~, Your Group
recommend this
email
print
link to this page
Paste this link into an email or IM
Bookmark this post:
Facebook
Twitter
Delicious
Buzz
More

Comments: 123

Lisa Frost Sep 10, 2007, 9:48am EDT
GREAT! I can identify with all and yet none!
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Teresa L. Sep 10, 2007, 9:53am EDT
Thank you for posting this excellent article. I don't think I have ever given much attention to any of the poems on writing/crafting poems.

Your poem made me laugh a bit while at the same time my shoulder muscles tensed with recognition, nodding my head with understanding.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
J W. Sep 10, 2007, 9:53am EDT
good article
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Catherine K. Sep 10, 2007, 9:56am EDT
This is a truly wonderful and inspiring article, and I am mad about your own contribution to this particular body of poetry!
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Debbie G. Sep 10, 2007, 9:57am EDT
The last poem, yours, squeezed my heart.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Mark Lange Sep 10, 2007, 10:06am EDT
Very nice!~
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Charlotte Babb Maven-Fairy Godmother Sep 10, 2007, 10:09am EDT
Well done. I always start any poetry lesson with MacLeish because many students have no idea how to read a poem, and they--as Billy Collins suggests--start beating it with a hose to find the "hidden meaning, " which is what many oftheir teachers expect them to do.

Poetry is an experience, distilled and shared. .
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Vivian P. Sep 10, 2007, 10:11am EDT
I don't think I can write a poem, but I know how to enjoy them
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
LaRue B. Sep 10, 2007, 10:15am EDT
Poems to me are emotion of the one who writes it and the emotion that is felt by the one who reads it.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Kylee S. Sep 10, 2007, 10:17am EDT
What a well-done and informative piece and great poem at the end. This reminds me of another poems by Billy Collins, I will post it soon
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Anne B. Grote Sep 10, 2007, 10:20am EDT
What a great choice of poets you chose in exploring definitions of what a poem is; yours especially meaningful understanding the loss, bewilderment and enjoyment from your other writings. I akin myself to my hero, Joseph Campbell's definition of poetry = "poetry is the music of the spheres." An excellent read is Bill Moyers on The Language of Life. It is an excellent compilation of poets and their explanations of "the exalted language" - poetry. It was also a PBS series. Thanks, Ed!
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Ron (in complete sheeple overload) W. Sep 10, 2007, 10:21am EDT
No crafty, well chosen words, but these, Thanks Ed
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Richard Frisbie Sep 10, 2007, 10:21am EDT
Insightful, Edward. Thank you.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
LaRue B. Sep 10, 2007, 10:21am EDT
Your article is really great. I enjoyed reading.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
dianne j. Sep 10, 2007, 10:25am EDT
Wow! Not only do you have to have talent to write poetry, you need talent to read it as well! That thought never occurred to me before.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Shruthi P. Sep 10, 2007, 10:32am EDT
1st, I am laughing aloud at your poem, I like the way you've presented your thoery in your own words

2nd, I love the way these other poets have presented their theories on poetry, I would love it if these poems are part of the syllabus in the "literary criticism and theory" paper offered in my university, that still insists on reading and deciphering classical theory, not that it is irrelevant, but it is more tiresome that what these poets have said...

3rd, I think poems are a great way of expressing yourself, if you are capable of it... I don't attach myself to a literary cause or anything, I have things I want to say, and poetry is my choice of expression.... I have written a poem about writing... I think almost all 'poets' do that... write about writing... no point writing if you don't have a theory about it no?

I enjoyed this article, for the simple reason that apart from learning other poets' points of view, I have also come across names I have not heard, and I do intend to look them up and read more of their poetry... Thank you for that.... and plagiarist.com is also a good website to get texts of poems!!!
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Danielle P. Sep 10, 2007, 10:34am EDT
Great article.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Edward Nudelman Sep 10, 2007, 10:42am EDT
Thanks for all your comments. Anne, I love Moyers and well check out your link.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Rosalee W. Sep 10, 2007, 10:49am EDT
Very interesting Ed! Kind of puts poetry in a new perspective when you think about how so much of poetry is touching to so many. No matter what style poems are written in, they give a message to all of their emotions within! Great read!
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Kerry Dexter Sep 10, 2007, 10:50am EDT
Ed,
I like the way the Billy Collins' poem resonates with the ideas in Marianne Moore's work. Also offer the comment, perhaps a spark for future columns from both of us, that songwriters are often the poets of these times.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
El Toro Bravo de Amor Sep 10, 2007, 10:52am EDT
I've always been a fan of poems about poems. The hall of mirrors effect is wuite enchanting.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Darlene M. Sep 10, 2007, 10:57am EDT
I enjoyed these, Ed......more please;-)
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Desire Hendricks Sep 10, 2007, 10:57am EDT
My favorite poem of this type is by Edna St. Vincent Millay:


I will put Chaos into fourteen lines
And keep him there; and let him thence escape
If he be lucky; let him twist, and ape
Flood, fire, and demon --- his adroit designs
Will strain to nothing in the strict confines
Of this sweet order, where, in pious rape,
I hold his essence and amorphous shape,
Till he with Order mingles and combines.
Past are the hours, the years of our duress,
His arrogance, our awful servitude:
I have him. He is nothing more nor less
Than something simple not yet understood;
I shall not even force him to confess;
Or answer. I will only make him good.

-- Edna St. Vincent Millay

http://www.cs.rice.edu/~ssiyer/minstrels/poems/905.html
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Arlene H. Sep 10, 2007, 11:01am EDT
One of my favorite books that I can't find -- it's somewhere! -- is The Routledge Anthology of Poets on Poets...

http://www.amazon.com/Routledge-Anthology-Poets/dp/0415118476/ref=sr_1_7/104-1992192-8583119?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1189436402&sr=8-7
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Peter G. Sep 10, 2007, 11:02am EDT
Hello,

Thanks for posting this, very nicely done.

Poetry for me is a way to express myself. I think I have a long way to go to become a good poet, but I'm working on it.

Thanks.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Edward Nudelman Sep 10, 2007, 11:05am EDT
Desire, love that by Millay! Very glad you posted it.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Marie L. Sep 10, 2007, 11:10am EDT
This was a great article, I learned several new things in the process of reading it -- thanks for sharing it!
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
anjum wasim D. Sep 10, 2007, 11:16am EDT
I have been teaching Classical Poetry at the Masters level.I t was a pleasure to read your article.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
t b. Sep 10, 2007, 11:23am EDT
This was an interesting article Edward. I liked the excerpt by Billy Collins almost as much as I felt yours.

Eight lines from the finish of yours I began to cry.
And wondered if this poem made me weep the first time I read it.

I love Robert Frost's words "A poem begins with a lump in the throat."

For me, words roll and twist on my tongue, tangling.
When they begin to unravel themselves into coherent thought....
I begin to write.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Marilyn M. Sep 10, 2007, 11:24am EDT
This is excellent. I did some research myself a while ago about what poets said about poetry. But I neglected to read poems they wrote about poetry. Thanks for the education.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Teresa W. Sep 10, 2007, 11:43am EDT
Another excellent article!!
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
G. M. Lupo Sep 10, 2007, 11:57am EDT
Great article.

I used to write poetry when I was in high school and early college, but haven't written anything substantial since then. I tend to overwrite sometimes and for a medium that's built on economy, that's not a good tendency.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
John Philipp Sep 10, 2007, 11:59am EDT
Another excellent article on this passion you call poetry. Thanks, Ed.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
jackie s. Sep 10, 2007, 12:05pm EDT
very good article.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Marge H. Sep 10, 2007, 12:12pm EDT
This is very revealing. Thank you for sharing the insights from poets on poetry. I'm hoping it will help improve mine as I start exploring this genre. Not having written any poetry, seriously, I need all the help and insight I can get.

I also appreciate your willingness to share some of yourself and your writing philosophies and techniques with us.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Cheryl W. Sep 10, 2007, 12:16pm EDT
Excellent article, Edward....and so much I could relate to. Thank you so much for sharing!
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Cristina S. Sep 10, 2007, 12:20pm EDT
Thanks for sharing this!
I actually liked yours best... it is one I can identify with...
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Otelia S. Sep 10, 2007, 12:22pm EDT
I've said it once and I'll say it again. My,,,you have a way with words. Words that have meaning and poetry that holds emotions.
Thank you for sharing wonderful Information and poetry.
10
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
William Dotani Sep 10, 2007, 12:24pm EDT
I greatly enjoyed this article. I certainly will read it again. I've always loved the lyrical aspects of a poem. Since I was/am a musician, I'm very keen on rhyme. I guess some poems are misunderstood because the reader does not understand the cultural background of the poet. I think some poems are meant to be hazy in meaning for a variety of reasons. (Wanting to make intent subtle for personal or political reasons; trying to impress peers; contempt towards someone, society, or an institution; trying to show artsy cleverness, etc.). I've always thought a poem tells a story suspended in time. Except for one form of Japanese poetry, I can think of no poem that is built on continuation as a finalized product. Most poetry is either emotive or of place description. Your poem is like a chronological meandering through the sounds, places and your interactive responsibilities through the day. This is not thinly veiled, yet it is a guide. There is both humor and sadness sprinkled throughout your verse, in what one could almost call cause and affect rhetoric. It was very easy to read and understand, which any guide should be. I thank you for this interesting lesson.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Sheila Deeth Sep 10, 2007, 12:34pm EDT
I liked La Rue's comment. And I cried for your poem - though at the moment it's a story that's fighting with the cleaning and washing (and gathering) to be written.

I loved Billy Collins' image of the poem tied to a chair - they wouldn't let any of us take English Lit at my high school because they'd decided that too much analysis would forever ruin us as readers. Actually, I've enjoyed pretending to take lit with my kids, but I can see what they meant, and Collins' poem means something similar.

The boys learned to guess what the teacher wanted them to find in what they read. And sometimes we imagine we have to guess what the writer wants us to find. But I'd rather find the part of me that's exposed in the writer's words, and realise we're connected to others in this world, in places deeper than we usually care to, or can look.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Kim K. Borders U.S. Sep 10, 2007, 12:46pm EDT
Thank you, Edward. What a good perspective shift as I eat my carefully chosen lunch while staring at a computer screen. (!)

Thanks also for including Marianne Moore--she is a favorite of mine. Her artful marryiage of acute scientific observation and, well, poetic language never fails to astound me. And her sly humor always makes me smile.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Kathryn E. Sep 10, 2007, 1:08pm EDT
I especially love the metaphor in MacLeish's poem

A poem should be motionless in time
As the moon climbs,

reminds me of one of my favorite lines in Yeats:

For who can know the dancer from the dance?
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Elsie Duggan Sep 10, 2007, 1:09pm EDT
I enjoyed this piece on Poems on Poems, Edward, as usual, everything you write, gives me something to think about and this one made me think about my own poetry efforts, and since most of them write themselves, with my fingers putting them down, I don't feel so bad about them somehow. I enjoyed your own poem here, it so expresses what many of our mornings are like, and how the things we mean to do are constantly being put off with another thought, but eventually we do them all, and the love you feel for your wife is so evident here, I think it is a very intimate look into your life.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Atticus *. Sep 10, 2007, 1:21pm EDT
Such an education you give us Ed. Thanks for this extremely well written article with its unique look at poetry from the inside. I especially like the example you chose from Mr. Collins. All of the example you cite are excellent, including that last one.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Klaus Daimler Sep 10, 2007, 1:44pm EDT
Great
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Edward Nudelman Sep 10, 2007, 1:54pm EDT
Kim, thanks, Marrianne Moore is amazing. I love her poems.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Lynn Doiron Sep 10, 2007, 1:56pm EDT
I don't rate what I read here on Gather very often -- but I gave this a ten. I like it when I find Pope quoted in the same thoughtful examination of poetry as Collins, Moore noted in the same essay as O'hara. Bravo. Nice piece.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Cheryl R. Sep 10, 2007, 2:00pm EDT
I felt like I was back in school, Edward. Poetry is something I seem to enjoy reading, but, I find it difficult to write. I'll keep trying.

I'm sorry that you and Susan have lost your dog, my canine friend of 16 years passed
two years ago and I have decided not to replace him. His grave is in a bower on our
property and a friend in the monument business made me a small marker for Third.

Try to remember the flowers, they ease and comfort the mind and soul.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Jaime R. Sep 10, 2007, 2:01pm EDT
great info!
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Edward Nudelman Sep 10, 2007, 2:05pm EDT
Thanks Cheryl, we had to put her down on the first day of Spring this year.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Barbara B. Sep 10, 2007, 2:20pm EDT
Ed, what is there left for me to say? Everyone
before me has just about said it all. I will agree
with what my dear friend William had to say and
also what my dear friend Elsie had to say, as if it
came from my mind too! Thank you dear man for
sharing those intimate things in your life.
Just Me
Barbie

And flowers are a nice
touch dear man.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Luna Rushdi Sep 10, 2007, 2:29pm EDT
HI Edward, as always a superb article from you. You bring so many interesting things to my attention! I love the quotations you have used (specially the one from Frank O'hara & Alexander Pope) Your commentary is lucid and logical as usual.

Even though I really adore Robert Frost as a poet (he is probably the only poet in English I have read quite thoroughly and keep going back to over and over again), I am not sure I would agree with his comment about poetry though... 'A poem begins with a lump in the throat'. Doesn't it suggest that poetry is only about emotions and feelings? But are all good poems confined to emotions only?
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Nyota *Star* Sep 10, 2007, 2:40pm EDT
Very informative and stimulating. I may have to write a poem today.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Wide Eyed Sep 10, 2007, 2:43pm EDT
Thanks for sharing all those great poems
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Edward Nudelman Sep 10, 2007, 2:44pm EDT
Luna, great question, and I think Frost was perhaps overstating the point. However, for Frost, feelings and the emotions were prominent in his work. And the qualifier, "begins," puts some reins on the hyperbole.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Sophiya S. Sep 10, 2007, 2:46pm EDT
great job
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
lea and... c. Sep 10, 2007, 3:02pm EDT
A poem is when I dare opening the wounds
old remembrance time has healed
then revealed in the reason of the heart
a beauty in agony and respite for all is living
with joy or sadness until the day we part
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Angela W. Sep 10, 2007, 3:37pm EDT
Great poems. I also write poetry. It is a great way to express your feelings, whether they are happy, sad, angry, etc.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
F. Jeanette c. Sep 10, 2007, 3:39pm EDT
what a beautiful collection.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Stephen H. Sep 10, 2007, 3:54pm EDT
My passion for poetry, which has kind of been buried since high school so many years ago, has definitely been reinvigorated since joining Gather and reading this article!!!
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
P.W. Dowdy Sep 10, 2007, 4:08pm EDT
Primarily, poetry is a letting go of the self for the sake of self. If it is a true letting go, readers will immediately identify--or not. But the poet has expelled another jewel from his/her soul. Perhaps for the taste of the next yearning reader.

Now as to your poem. It is Ed as I have come to appreciate him. Chock full of honesty and laced with a heart searched wrestling. All the while, telling me about life as seen uniquely through Ed's perceptive eyes.

I don't know about hidden meanings so much. I merely received your poem as it moved me. Saying along the way: yes, that's it! More, more, more.


Pat
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
libramoon C. Sep 10, 2007, 4:16pm EDT
Artist's Paean

My part of the social contract,
my cultural role
is to dig deep down into the depths
of my soul,
which connects to
the collective whole
to fully merge with that landscape
become every bit of soil, every seed,
explore the before, becoming,
bereavement, paint it in color,
texture, tone, in language
that is mine alone
grown from and refeeding
the collective tongue.
Whatever the value we perceive
and pay into the collective budget
to receive
art gives beauty, pleasure, entertainment,
elevation of our mundane experience,
communication of politics and pain,
and ways to sustain intimacy, explain
personal perplexities, move beyond
boundaries, feel more than, embrace
a common destiny, absorb accumulated
wisdom, reason to believe in more than
-- on and on into mystery, history, possibility,
fantasy and wonder.
All this the artist gives, payment for the
sustenance of inspiration
refueling our power
to give ever more.

(c) June 10, 2006 Laurie Corzett/libramoon


Pop Quiz

What is more useless than a poet, and why?

Encloistered in my artist's garrett, threadbare garments more holes than whole
Paint spattered, unruly and unkempt
Barely aware of the need for sustenance or even air
Entranced by the necessity of exploring, exposing my vision
I am the essence of romance.

Writing words on paper, I am merely effete,
Despite my black attire and permanent scowl.
Even if they are good words, finely wrought, expressing deeply true emotion
They are almost literally a dime a dozen.
To expose my wound is inelegance, to explore my essence a narcissistic malaise.

I am the real deal -- the poet-philosopher, the idealist dreamer, the journey's fool.
Surely I should be surrounded by accolytes at my feet, honored to breathe the sacred
Incense of my magesty.

Yet here I stand with bills unpaid in the squalor of a rented room,
Unadorned by idolatry.

(c) Laurie Corzett/libramoon
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
libramoon C. Sep 10, 2007, 4:25pm EDT
Hey Ed, may I forward this article to Seers and Seekers?

libramoon
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Edward Nudelman Sep 10, 2007, 4:27pm EDT
Libramoon, excellent fervent expression of joy in art. Thanks sincerely for posting.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Edward Nudelman Sep 10, 2007, 4:27pm EDT
Yes, of course, Libramoon
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
dee-dee Wishes you the best life has to offer S. Sep 10, 2007, 4:30pm EDT
wow Edward how wonderful of you to share this amaging article with us. i jst love the poems you used here. thank you for taking the time to go into our heads to seek out the meaning of poems. Where they come from within. great read . Thanks for the invite. well worth it.
God Blessings
always dee-dee
10*
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Larry H. Sep 10, 2007, 4:32pm EDT
thanks for sharing..
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Bijou *~MotherGrizzly~* M. Sep 10, 2007, 4:47pm EDT
An excellent and informative article--your poem is wonderful & inspires me to go off and write my own work :)
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
suzan g. Sep 10, 2007, 5:17pm EDT
poetry is life! I have enjoyed reading this.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Bill Lawrence Sep 10, 2007, 5:38pm EDT
Thank you for this, Edward: makes me glad I chose to click on the 'connect' button. This is the kind of article Gather should have and seldom does. I liked: "The sense of sound in poetry is paramount. When all else fails, it is often the pure sound of a great poem that grabs us and prompts our emotions." I love poetry's appeal to all the senses (which I think your poem exemplifies), but to me, poetry is something best savored when read aloud, when the rhythms come alive and carry everything else with them. Bravo.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
ann c. Sep 10, 2007, 5:44pm EDT
Thank you, very informative!
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Corina Carrasco Sep 10, 2007, 5:49pm EDT
I always enjoy the links you include so we can look further into poets and poetry. Thank you.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
robert w. Sep 10, 2007, 6:33pm EDT
Thank yout for the article and the poems Edward. I love your
quote of how Robert Frost defines poetry. rpw
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
blaine d. Sep 10, 2007, 6:40pm EDT
love the poem!!!
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Tanya P. Sep 10, 2007, 6:50pm EDT
I especially enjoyed your own poem; a rush to awaken the senses and the mind goes wild with, pushing through it too many thoughts, crowding it into a hectic day, coming home and disciplining it to slow toward memory. Interesting end "Now write the bloody poem."
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
JoAnne D. Sep 10, 2007, 7:07pm EDT
You have compiled a very nice page. Thanks for sharing.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Shaunee C. Sep 10, 2007, 7:30pm EDT
great tips
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Jerri H. Sep 10, 2007, 7:57pm EDT
Great article and great work ed...thanks!
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Sue * Sep 10, 2007, 8:01pm EDT
This is a great article and really makes me think. I love the Frost quote "Poetry is when an emotion has found its thought and the thought has found words." I think it describes poetry very well.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Richard B. Sep 10, 2007, 8:54pm EDT
Very good Ed.

Some of them I've read and like before like Billy Collins who I also like. Others not. But it still goes on as long as life is still there, I guess
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Magi the magical poet is riding the wind again Sep 10, 2007, 10:21pm EDT
Ed, you should collect together you articles on poetry and, when you have sufficient of these, publish them!

Poetry is the language of the soul - of heart speaking to heart through emotions. To me, the feeling is more important than the meaning and the content of the feeling more important than the structure - than the way it is said. As a general rule of my thumb, if a poem has emotional impact, it works; if it has no emotional impact, it struggles.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Katrina Hall Sep 10, 2007, 10:37pm EDT
Billy & Edward - what a pair! I truly loved this. Some of the quoted poets sound tedious, and I wish I could remember some more succinct descriptions, but there you go. Brain in sleep mode.
I do still feel intensely alive and vibrant when I read a really good Frost - yowser! There was a man who speaks to my heart - besides you and Billy, of course.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Edward Nudelman Sep 10, 2007, 11:06pm EDT
Katrina, you really SHOULDN'T put me in the same line as Frost or Collins. Really, you shouldn't!
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
John Harris Beck Sep 10, 2007, 11:18pm EDT
Another fine article, Edward. If I had time, I'd check out the other correspondents, because if they work as hard and as ably as you do, then Gather is on the march. Even if it's only you, Gather is on the march for me.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Shirl T. Sep 10, 2007, 11:31pm EDT
nice
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
amarpreet k. Sep 11, 2007, 12:08am EDT
ED , can't agree more on "poetry begins with a lump in the throat" .A fantabolous collection of poems ,that signify why poets write poems ...It answers some questions , give you a direction and yet keep you wandring in a long desert to search more answers ..like why I write ?whats my process ....
you poem has a sarcastic homour in it ... Like the way you present poetry as a vent to our inner feelings that are crying to come out ...good , bad , important , mundane ..just anything ..

we like some poems for sheer musical flow , and some for the fact that we had to read them 3 times to understand what exactly the poet meant ...some for brillantly putting across a feeling that we can associate with ..some for just being a simple honest expression of self and desires of poet .

" True ease in writing comes from art, not chance,
As those move easiest who have learned to dance."

how true , every art needs practice and patience and your writings are examples of art well learnt.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Deanna P. Sep 11, 2007, 12:38am EDT
good article and thanks for sharing. now if one day I could write a good poem.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Dolphi D. Sep 11, 2007, 12:57am EDT
Great readings! And, no doubt, your superb instructions in the end have brought the Arts Poetica within the pedestrian's reach.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Machiavelli Dayupay Sep 11, 2007, 1:25am EDT
Sometimes I do that kind of way dealing with poetry... for rhetorical reasons...
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Nana Gill Sep 11, 2007, 2:32am EDT
Edward, Wonderful article. To enjoy poetry one must have a poet's heart. For poetry can be lost in the reading. Loved the poems and the comments. Poetry to me is prose written in shorthand and put to music in rhyme or meter.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Melissa O. Sep 11, 2007, 6:16am EDT
Nice Article! thanks for sharing :)
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Karen T. Sep 11, 2007, 7:32am EDT
very nice
very now
in the still
of the morning.

Karen M. Tylutki
Thanks
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Barbary Chaapel Sep 11, 2007, 9:14am EDT
Very astute, Ed. I enjoyed this.