The Ever Wideing Gap Between the "Haves" and the "Have nots"

Great topic. I live in NYC. The economic disparately is extreme here. One person will drop on breakfast what another person has to spend to feed her family for a week. On my block, there are huge multimillion dollar Victorian homes housing families of 4 and apartment buildings on slightly bigger lots with packed with 400.

The amount of money we would need to amass for a down payment for a 2 bedroom apartment here, would buy us a small home in other parts of the country.

I'm not sure I'm ready to rant, but I've been thinking about this issue a lot lately, not only as it relates to the U.S., but to the rest of the world as well.

Inflated egos oftentimes translates into bigger houses and the unnecessary need to outdo the neighbor is part of the problem... Being comfortable is one thing but being outrageously outlandish and having a house with 16 bathrooms, all with gold faucets is another thing. I'd think if someone had that bad a bladder problem the money spent on bathrooms would be better spent elsewhere. Get medical treatment and spend the rest on building a shelter for unwanted animals or something. . .

"What is your experience? Do you see a growing disparity between the 'Haves' and the 'Have nots'?" - David A.

Well David, I see it on many levels. Being middle-class in the U.S. is being a "have" compared to so very many people around the globe, but I get what you're saying. Is the gap widening or can we just see it more clearly? Is the disparity sharper? Perhaps. I can't fathom spending that kind of money on real estate, no matter what the market.

It seems that's creeping up on society, but I'm not certain what the eventual outcomes might be. Maybe we should examine history - where should we start?

When I moved to Central Maine 20 years ago, the economy was in a huge slump, education levels were low, high school drop outs were on the upswing and many are still struggling to make ends meet. Ours is a community of the"have nots". There is no public transit, when we register our cars, we are charged a luxary tax so many drive old dangerous cars and now that gas is going up we can barely afford to drive to work and now our legislature is looking to fine those of us who can't afford health insurance and fine the small companies who can't afford to offer it.

On the other end is the "haves" - I'm tired of their tax breaks - and maybe they did contribute to social security, it tires me to see them get it while they live off of their interest and complain about how expensive food is.......all I have to say is "walk in my shoes for a week and then shut up."

David, there are many in America who are considered "haves." "I ain't no senator's son." The fact that there are children in Mozambique or Kenya or Lebanon who do nopt know what e-mail is, who have never been on myspace is a shame. The fact that there are probably large numbers of poeple in Turkey, or Dubai who do not know how to read is tragic.

Yet we can't solve all problems. It's much more comforting to think about how others have more than we do, and to secretly want their life of ease.

All is not easy for those who do manage to achieve much in this world. Taxes might not be too greatly eased. The democrats have control of the House and Senate. Supposedly, they should be able to set tax levels. They might choose to raise everybody's taxes. After all, there will probably be a need to pay for the hike in the minimum wages recently signed into law.

Maybe now two adults who work full time minimum wage jobs might not still be below the poverty level. Of course, maybe their employer will need to lay off one of the workers now.

Low housing costs used to be one of the good things about living in Phoenix. But speculators came in and jacked up the market. Normal people couldn't afford a decent house. Now the prices are terribly inflated and everyone is waiting for a slump (which is happening) so they can refinance or get a house that will ultimately cost them about $100K more than it did before the greedy out of staters ran up the asking prices.

I live in southwestern Indiana in a area that prominatly farmers. Its rough to see fields going unplowed because the farmers cant afford the fuel for the tracters. On my way to work on thursday I counted 6 farms that have different peices of machanery for sale. What happens when there are no more farmers or ranchers to grow the vegatbles and provide the meat??

David it would be hard for me to define middle class for us - but I think that is where Hubby and I fall - we have four homes, one we purchased together, one that was being bought by me at the time we were married and outgrew as our kids were born and two through inheritance to Hubby - but none of them are in the $103 Million dollar range.

We live in So Cal so I think the actual property values are just inflated all to hooey anyway and any one of them would be worth half as much or less anywhere else in the country.

As for property taxes we pay through the nose until we bleed greenbacks and don't get any breaks because they are all paid for but come on, one of them is a one room cabin on less than 1/4 acre of land with separate closets and a bathroom, it has murphy beds in the wall and it was built in what was originally a little hardly known mountain town.

One day someone decided the town was now to be a resort town because they started selling bottled water from there, added a dock to the lake and built a fancy town center and the value of the cabin soared higher than our three bedroom home on a full half acre of real estate twenty five miles away and not in a 'resort town' over night without us doing any improvements.

Meanwhile at our other house twenty five miles away the city all of a sudden decided to incorporate and bam! we got hit again as property taxes tripled.

We pay taxes in three different counties and every year they seem to just climb and while I am not complaining about paying our fair share of taxes we owe it makes me wonder how much of the taxes we and others in the lower income brackets than the very rich are being hit over the head for are going to cover taxes that should be paid by the billionaires for their mansions and corporations here in So Cal like this Ron Baron person in Florida.

Property taxes are certainly a consideration that have to be faced by those that are barely making ends meet. Looks like housing sales have increased in April but only because prices have fallen!! Maybe the bubble has burst?

I read a thing that says the poor get $8 in government benefits for every $1 they pay in taxes, the middle class gets (if I remember correctly) $1.25, and the "rich" get $.2.

Everybody wants to get government benefits, but things somebody else should pay. It's easy to spend somebody else's money.

This is a great article, and raises lots of good questions. All i know is we are "working class poor" we work day and night (literally) odd shifts so we don't have to pay a sitter and still barely scrap by.
We get no help from the government, well, they do allow us to "rent"(prpoperty taxes) the home we are already making payments on so......
Yeah i know it akes no sense and i'm rambling, i need more coffee before i get to cranky!

Really tired of it all. There's a great divide and it's getting larger. Nothing will be done about it anytime soon. I'm cranky enough this morning, so I'll not say much more on this.

The dialogue starting in this thread is taking place all over America. The "working class" is getting tired of paying for the amenities that the "haves" are granted by questionable votes from career politicians and at the same time for the necessities claimed by the "really poor" that seem to have enough money for smokes and booze but not enough for baby formula and diapers for the 5 kids under the age of 10. Is part of the solution in re-establishing a sense of community? The separation that comes from the accumulation of wealth is really obvious in some places. Gates keep the prying eyes of the "have nots" away from the luxurious estates of the "haves". We have a growing problem along the barrier islands in Florida where the very rich have established their own "rules" at times. Especially notable is how little the public gets access to the oceanfront beaches even though the public is recognized to have rights to all sandy beaches. The "have nots" are welcome as long as they are cleaning the houses, mowing the lawns, and picking up the garbage, but they are not supposed to come on the week-end and recreate at the beach. Thanks for the great discussion and please add any references to other examples that you may be seeing.

I grew up in Denmark, a socialistic democratic society, but even there the gap is widening. I have lived in Passaic, New Jersey, and I now live in South Florida, and yes I see the gap, I am in the gap, I feel the gap. I am looking forward to seeing property legislation proposals that will actually benefit the majority, and not just a few people. I know they need to take to give, but it does not make sense to take from the people, who do not have anything, just to give it to the people who do have.

This was a great discussion you created David...articles like this deserve a BIGGER audience.

Thanks Susan, I was wondering if you had gone away from Gather...

David, You have written an important article.

1. To answer your question,"Yes," from what I've seen there is "...a growing disparity between the "Haves" and the "Have nots."

2. "Will there eventually be a revolt as the rich keep getting richer and lock themselves away behind multi-million dollar mansion gates?"

Looks to me like the rich are getting ready for a revolt by the "Have nots."

3. Are you fed up with the way the government cuts taxes for the rich and sets up special rules for them?

Yes, Sir! That's my babee... and even read of a few ways on how the "Haves" get around even the regular rules in little articles in the WSJ - though not glaring headlines, at least, it was right there in the WSJ.

4. Sense of community? Yes, more involvement in both small and greater community. Not buried away in a gated community. Not with everyone, but it seems there is more of a "not my problem" attitude. Or, just don't mess with me or my family. As David says, "...re-establishing a sense of community."

The poor living on the streets - shame on us. With so little, I've met some incredibly generous individuals. ie just because I chatted to one, invited me for a Jr Burger and another a plastic glass of their rotgot vodka. I accepted with joy and together we enjoyed precious moments enjoying the park and life. When I arrived home, their caring moved me to tears, as I am now... just thinking of them.

The poor who have a place of their own to sleep. As long as they don't hurt anybody, I cannot condemn their despair in taking solace in something I might not.

Middle class are struggling.

The wealthy and their homes David described are to me outlandish and unnecessary. I wish they could find the love they are seeking and, maybe, the distribution of "monies" would be better spread around for less disparity to the "Have nots."

Seven years after the fall of the Taliban and the establishment of a civilian-led and internationally backed government, Afghanistan remains one of the poorest countries in the world. It has rates of unemployment, illiteracy, infant mortality and malnutrition on a par with the most impoverished nations in sub-Saharan Africa.
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alex

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