LEFT OF THE RIGHT: Why Our Public Schools Are Broken; And How To Fix Them

"For four years kids are expected to learn how to behave like an adult."

Parents job.

Devin, the type of school you describe sounds like the Montessori method...which I think works wonders for kids in lower grades. When my daughter was in such a school she progressed at a much faster pace than she now does in public school. These types of schools do well for both those kids that are advanced as well as those who need more time to learn. They are also very "hands on".

Transitioning to high school should use a different approach that will allow for grades and such so that kids can be prepared for the competitiveness of the "real world". But you're right...not all kids are destined to college and we should teach vocations and other "real life" skills to those who choose a different path.

Sure it is, and in an ideal world we could all rest assured that all parents were doing their job. But just like a lot of my Right Wing friends like to say, "we don't live in an ideal world." Are we supposed to just ignore that fact? Are kids born of parents that shirk their duty any less deserving of a fair shake here?

Don, your kind of thinking is irresponsible.

Great ideas. As a former teacher - I walked away believing that schools are going to have to change. Students don't fit into NCLB testing requirements. They are people and need to be respected as such.

I've never heard the term Montessori method before, but I have seen individual teachers try to be more hands-on and get their students out of the classroom more. But more often than not, they ended up upsetting their superiors.

"Are kids born of parents that shirk their duty any less deserving of a fair shake here?"

Honestly, those kids are pretty much screwed. They aren't getting a fair shake, but that doesn't mean we have to put other kids into the programs that teach them things their parents should be teaching them their entire lives.

I am flabbergasted Don, and you folks on the Right wonder why we on the Left think you are cold blooded.

"Honestly, those kids are pretty much screwed."

And that's just how it is, right. WRONG!!!!

The essence of teaching is nurturing the "whole" person. All concerned with the "entire" learning experience. As a teacher, you cannot concentrate on only one aspect and ignore others. teaching intangibles like honor, compassion, and responsibility need to be a part of every learning experience. It would not require special "programs."

As apparently one of your "Right Wing friends." Your proposed plan is a good idea. The high school is an idea that was recomended in florida by a commitee they put together. The Democrats down in Florida disagreed because it would make the kids going to vocational programs feel "inferior" I digress, The plan might not take a lot more money. Most of the money sent to schools is wasted in levels of administration. I have always liked the Gates foundation policy that 70 cents of every dollars should be spent in the classroom. That is where learning actually happens.

Interesting concept Devin, just as going to school year round is. Having been abroad and seen first hand various educational programs I have come to realize that somewhere, somehow we have lost focus on one important thing ... teaching. It seems that because of this lack of skill and other constraints placed by whomevers the only way to teach is by either passing unqualified students or lowering the standards so much that the value of education is for naught.

My niece spent k-3 in a french school in hong kong (brit and american schools had waiting lists). By the time she got back home (NJ) she was put into the 5th grade and even at that level she found it too easy. At the age of 15 she started college at a school called Princeton Univ.
It's all how one is taught and the more it seems one loads up on a student when they are young the better they turn academically.

Oh if you think that all my niece did was study with no life at all, she had plenty of activities like a member of the junior us equestrian team.

My folks told me that back in the forties and fifties high schools were set up more like what I proposed. This is one place where the differences between blue collar Dems and the more liberal Dems are easy to see. The Libdems want a world where every child gets a college degree. We BCdems have a more practical view of the problem.

Patrick,
Kudos to your niece, I'm sure you are very proud of her. My wish is that all kids would find them selves in an environment where the only limit is their own potential.

Some good points, Devin. I deal with alot of kids who would benefit from vocational schools and fail miserably in regular schools. I don't know why the higher ups can't acknowledge how widespread this is. A personal observation and opinion of mine; I think they should do away with middle schools and return to elementary then high school. I think it breaks down the natural "pecking order" that society provides.

Geez Devin, wish I could take you on a tour of various schools in France, Germany, England, South Korea, Japan, Taiwan and Singapore. Then you could see how teachers teach and motivate kids.
Speaking of kids potential ... there is a japanese program called Kumon math that lets kids progress at their own speed. all it takes is 10min of homework per day and 2-30min sessions per week with the teacher. It's an extremely effective program for kids of all ages. i have seen hs students studying at the same level/course material as a 10 year old (Algebra). In my case I've experienced total humiliation because of this program (10 yr old little girl beat the living crap out of me in a 10min 10 question advanced algebra math test ... I took calc 3 + in college).

Actually, though "corporal punishment" isn't necessarily a good idea, we DO need to establish and maintain an effective discipline paradigm throughout the school system.

Smaller class size is a necessity, but so is the absolute and final stop to the "seniority only" rating of teachers. They should be evaluated by their innovativeness and effectiveness.

Devin, you're not going to like what I have to say. A lot of people aren't, but it needs to be said just the same.

First:

School is not supposed to be fun. School is serious business. Making it fun all the time not only trivializes it, it makes doing well optional. There's nothing wrong with a little fun along the way. It doesn't have to be mean, tough, and grim all the time. It should, however, be mean, tough, and grim the majority of the time. Making it anything less, making it "fun", makes the kids think they don't HAVE to learn. After all, having fun isn't required in other instances, is it? School, and learning in general, is serious business. It should be treated as serious business.

Second:

Parents need to quit "protecting their innocent little babies from the harsh realities of life" by A) lying for them when they ditch school and B) making excuses for them when they don't live up to the expectations of their teachers which, God knows, are low enough to begin with.

Third:

Parents need to get their noses out of the school's general operation and discipline and let the teachers teach. They need to instill in their children a respect for teachers and for what a good teacher can do for them. There are many, MANY excellent teachers out there who have gotten out of the field entirely because of crap like my first and second statements. They're not likely to go back, either, as long as their students' parents won't allow them to maintain order in their classrooms and to teach their subjects. What that leaves us in the classrooms, frequently, is not the A team, or even the B or C team but rather anyone they can drag in off the streets. Do you know that in the state of Indiana teachers are so scarce that there is no requirement that you even have spent a day in college much less have teaching credentials to sub, regardless of how many days a year you work? Further, the ones who DO have teaching credentials aren't necessarily much if any better. Why would anyone with two functional brain cells choose to spend their days essentially babysitting a bunch of delinquents who will tell them to F*** off KNOWING THAT THEY WILL GET BY WITH IT when they can find a job where they don't have to listen to that kind of crap and THEN, when they call the parents, hear, "MY CHILD would NEVER do that!" when their child in fact undisputedly HAS just done precisely that and further is PROUD to have done it? I certainly wouldn't. I know some teachers who do, on the off chance that they might find one, just ONE student who truly wants to learn. Why they do it is beyond me. I certainly wouldn't.

Fourth:

Not every child is destined for college. There is an academic track, and a "business" or vocational track. However, the vocational track should take them down a path that they can follow the rest of their lives. They are not, in all likelihood, be able to pack 90 pound bundles of roofing shingles up a ladder when they are 50, and especially if they have done it for 30+ years BEFORE they're 50. Teach them skills that they will be able to use when they are too old to do that, but too young to retire. Look at their entire lives, not only the ten years after high school graduation. Teach them things they can use all their lives.

The kids that get left behind twice should be put into a meat grinder. You wanna see grades go up? Survival of the fittest.

We opted out and used small, private schools. No regrets. The teachers teach and sometimes they discipline and we stay out of it. They are only trying to build on what we are doing here, at home. As far as I'm concerned, any adult who willingly spends their day surrounded by adolescents is a hero.

Now you are in favor of murdering children Don , have you no shame?????

Interesting ideas, whatever we do it needs to be done soon.
I will say as a teacher, enjoying something makes learning more productive.
Kids retain more if they are smiling

My point exactly Vickie.

I gave up on schools a long time ago. I home schooled my children when it was not the thing to do. And LOL my husband and I are teachers in public schools. We got to make a living some how. But we could never put our children through it.

Devin, you offer a lot of ideas to think about. They are common sense ideas - the hardest to push through, unfortunately! You simply have to ask one teacher and he/she will tell you they are overworked and often have no control of how they are allowed to teach.

The merits of your suggestions can be found in what's happened with the New York City school system, probably one of the messiest failures in the country. The schools are overcrowded and teachers are just as much victims as the kids.

I think it is shameful that the Right views public education as an advisary. When I think about how the Right claims to be on the side of Chritian morality, and considering how Jesus directed us on how we should treat children, I'm left confused by the contradiction. I'm forced to conclude their actions speak louder than their rhetoric.

Have they ever practiced what they preached? Children grow up and who is gonna help when they say you get what you gave me?

Youth IS the nation's future.

You've got some good insights and ideas here Devon. Large schools do not teach the best social functioning skills; nor provide the best educations. Too many future taxpayers fall through the cracks.

Beating, whipping and running them through a meat grinder are not effective solutions either. Resentful humans are dangerous humans; especially when filled with the passions of youth.

Smaller would be better. Community spirit used to be a strong positive influence in schools (still is in some areas). The 'bigger box is better model' is proving to be so wrong. Vote for change!

Devin,

I see a problem with schools that are rigidly divided into college and vocationally destined kids. First, it forces kids to make life determining decisions before they are old enough to know what they want to do with their lives and divides them into peer groups and the pressure of peers that restrict them from seeing the options that should be available to them. Thirdly it adds to the pressure exerted by parents who want their children to follow in their footsteps or adhere to the, "it was good enough for me, it should be good enough for you." philosophy.

Our children need time to explore who they are and discover the options that open to them before they are compelled to make decisions that will will in all likelihood determine the course of their life. We also need a educational system that will allow students who have made such decisions to change their mind and alter their life's course. If we fail to do this we a setting ourselves up for a class system based on education that is filled with a lot of resentful people who are dissatisfied with their adult lives.

Devin,

Another problem with the college and non-college bound students, it that ignore the needs of kids who want to go to college but need to work.

It was not my intention to imply the two types of secondary education should be mutually independent. I think a mixture of the two could work with an emphasis on flexibility for the student. You're right Carol, it is a time of flux for young people and they should be in a place where shifting gears doesn't upset the whole boat.

Devin I agree that there needs to be some fundamental changes.
Where I think that many on the "right" have problems is that many of the solutions seem to be "we need more money" throwing money at something that isn't working as it is expected to is not a solution.

Some where along this path we've started to add metal detectors and police to the school budget. Somethings wrong with that. There was a time when all the security that was needed in a school was the vice-principle and a football coach. I saw the control that teachers had over students erode while I was in the ninth grade when one of my fellow students told the teacher to go F*** herself. Last I heard he was in prison for murder.
Also I think that things have gone to far with making sure that nobody fails at anything. I've been having to explain to my kids that they are not guaranteed the jobs that they apply for that they may have to keep trying and may not succeed in getting the job they want and may have to try 2,3 times before they succeed. We now have schools that are banning tag and dodge ball. There are ball games where no score is kept and everyone wins. In the real world not everyone wins.
I feel like I have to teach my kids that losing is ok.
My daughter isn't a big fan of the Rolling Stones now. "You can't always get what you want"
Ben Franklin said that the pursuit of happiness is guaranteed. But you have to go out and catch it yourself.

I think that failing sometimes can be a good thing. My father wanted a job with a certain company and he went every week and applied for three months till he finally got the job that he wanted

Charles,
That is exactly why I think kids should have more exposure to the outside world. It is after all where they will live.

I'm kind of disappointed. I chose to read the article because it included "And How To Fix Them" but then you go on to say that you don't have THE answer. Oh well, sounded to good to be true. I do think you've got some of that right though. It seems to me that smaller more flexible schools would be better. One thing I am sure of, we have to be open to new ideas. I don't think we ever could, or would want to replace, human teachers but I'm tellin' ya computers already allow access to enormous amounts of raw information, learning materials and programs but they've only scratched the surface. I think there will be a lot of money spent on a lot a research to figure out the details of what systems work best but when we as a society have honed our technologies for education, education should become inexpensive and of higher quality. It's just too bad some people have such success at arguing we spend 100's of billions of dollars on killing 100's of thousands of people if you know what I mean.

Devin, another great article, about a very important situation. Sometimes the more serious the problem, the more apathy. I have first noticed the hits on this article vs. a lively political discussion, also important, but the children are the future, literally. In the city of St. Louis a few years ago, seven million dollars could not be accounted for. In answer to the problem, the School board elected to ask the State of Missouri to intervene and "take over," a lot of in-fighting resulted, and a really good superintendent, was fired, the money issue was swept under the rug. The next super was also up for firing but a few people woke up and that was dismissed, but!! the City schools were in danger of losing credibility with the State rating board and then the State would take over. Several years before that , there were tax increases to fix up the schools, so many million per school, and that was allegdedly spent. You could see it nowhere, and yet again, another large amount of money disappeared, and the issue of the seven million has been pushed totally out of sight, and I ask you, if the adults , elected at that, cannot keep their house in order, what chance do the children have? If someone looked at the last 5 years of BS concerning our schools, they would be shocked. There is overcrowding, gangs, vandalism, attacks on students by others, attacks on teachers, and the High Schools are worse. If they lose their State approval, the still unaccounted money will not ever be subject to explanation. The current students will have to go to schools miles away from the place that is already miles away from home. Many suburbs are and have been sqwauking that they have no room. The inner city children, and they are, that, albeit they are very tough, are really going to lose whether they are a good kid or bad , I used to ride the bus in the city a lot, there are so many beautiful kids, with no where to go, no one at home, and all-most no hope, I have heard many in high school, with very good grades talk about some very adult issues, including you have to have money to make it. And the right friends. Not good grades anymore, and I know hundreds have made it who do not let this bother them and go on, but hundreds cannot for all kinds of reasons.
My school is dirty, or it is unsafe, or I have to pay to be safe, or I have to belong to a gang to walk to and from, or keep my books. That is just the mindset of the kids, the teacher's fight amongst themselves, and the very good ones, and there are many, have been dismissed for not "going along", and because they are really caring and there idealism is still alive. There are very good kids, and teachers, and as always, there is the crowd in both that cause the problems. People who stand in the way of progress, parental input, ways to improve and better all, because it will "ROCK THEIR BOAT"< safely in the CHILDREN AND SCHOOL SYSTEM HARBOR!!"> I have no children in school any more, I do have grandchildren, they have been in every activity there is, sports, ballet, golf, gymnastics, and they have to come up with so much money for these, Perhaps the man who commented about the children who were the usual bunch that should be discarded, should watch them during a few enrollments for activities, which would keep a lot of latch-key kids busy and at least feeling self-achievement within themselves about something, but the pain of exclusion over money is awful to see on their face. This is school. It is playing ball! Or whatever!! Even our children are a buisiness. I realize people have been making money off of them for years, like the elderly and disabled, but this is a different time, and the program and the operators of it have changed. My first suggestion would be to have a non - monetary system for all school activities that have nothing to do with studies, Believe it or not, their self-esteem and standing starts in the social net-working at school, who can and who cannot, the cliques start, if you cannot belong to a "upper-class clique, you go to a gang, so nothing can "hurt" you. The excuse that some kids need to be given "up" on makes me sick. I wonder where the "our very hip, and street and worldly smart kids got their attitudes, I watched a few hundred in the city ban together , stay out of school, to try and keep their superintendent. it did not work, I watched the parents try, Where do they go from here? What will happen when all of our dedicated teacher's/social worker's/ parent's give up? I think you have some great ideas, and I wish I could have gone into some really serious observations, but I would fill this totally, up . Oh! yeah, let us not forget they go to school in fear now, I wish that evil man had not mouthed off about the children, "Don" I believe? People like him are the reason every American that works several jobs to get the minimum is really pissed, a lot of them I know are college grads, and the children, well I guess it is the "Trickle Down Attitude". I hope the children will recognize me as someone who cared, because they will be making the decisions, and they will be taking care of many of us in our old age, You cannot fool a kid nowadays, they have learned from some of the best, I say audit all schools publicly every year, Ellen B

Having spent 12 years in early childhood education research, the primary conclusion drived from the data is that early intervention is CRUCIAL. If they get off to a bad start, they rarely catch up. Concomittantly, gains made are wiped out by middle school unless those gains are sustained by teachers who know how to teach and can do that in a supportive environment; i.e., enlightened administration and school boards.

Any of the above is a tall order; as a package it requires sustained and committed effort from everyone in the school system, including parents. Since the latter part of the equation is inconsistent and can't be counted upon, all the more reason to focus on the teachers and other providers as a team. Sustained and ongoing learning that sticks will be the result.


For starters, SCRAP No Child Left Behind.

Don,

You may have been dropped on your head [most likely accidentally] numerous times in your first four years. Either that, or you are a an lightened, kind and benevolent persona masquerading as a neocon troll.

Dee, I think I had you as one of my teachers; fortunately, my parents were tuned in and got me another one who LOVED to teach and didn't think of it as a 'grim' duty for either one of us.

As a Board of Ed employee (at the district level, not at a school) I have personally and professionally seen how our current education system, and what we expect of it needs SERIOUS help, and not just at the K-12 level. So many people have put so much focus on "not all kids are college bound" that no one seems to notice that THE COLLEGES don't even teach students how to do their jobs or live in the real world. And yet, as a high school grad, with some college experience but no degree, I have been greatly discriminated against because I don't have that little piece of paper that says I have a degree. Some young, ignorant (sorry, I'm not trying to be pejorative, just honest) kid who has just spent 2-4 years in a classroom (and WAY too much of Mommy, Daddy and the Student Loan officer's money) can get the great job easily, while I have to convince potential employers that the 15 years ON THE JOB experience I have proves that I can do an entry-level job!?!

All the way around, our education system needs to focus less on rote book "learning", and get much more hands on. Why should the college-prep student and the vocational student take different classes? PRACTICAL physics, using real-world, hands on teaching methods, can be beneficial to the college-bound future astrophysicist as well as the work-out-of-school future auto mechanic or general contractor.

Every child can learn, but not every child learns the same way.
Love your ideas (was ready to hate them - as I've been in the classroom for over 30 years).
Now what?
We want to do more enrichment - can't teach something kids have NO idea about or no chance to come up with their own ideas - not in the curriculum, gotta move on...

Don,

"Honestly, those kids are pretty much screwed."

You have just epitomized the stereotypical thinking that is the problem. How about a serious response that actually postulates some kind of answer to the problem?

Devin,

Although this thread seems to address only the school, I think when we look at education we need to consider some additional barriers to a good education. First and foremost, is television. How can any teacher hope to get the subject matter across to students who have been up half the night watching television, playing computer games, etc.? And how can a teacher keep the attention of students busy text messaging buddies?

Parents have an obligation to insure kids are rested and nourished when they go to school. Cell phones have no place in the classroom.

I like the idea of more vocational training in high school for those who want it. However, those students still have a need to learn better reading skills, writing papers and letters, how to do research and other college preparatory things to get the same diploma as the college bound students.

It is well known that those with intention of college will not all go and many who start will not complete their course. These students need enough vocational training to make it in jobs in the real world. Life does not seem to offer the opportunity for students to learn basic skills such as how to present themselves in an interview, the importance of punctuality and dependability, the high value of ethics throughout life and how appearance can affect ones chances.

Used to be that most kids had some work experience during the high school years to learn how to work. That is no longer true. I've hired high school students and found they had no clue of how to work even though they were good kids and, once taught, excellent workers.

In asking for kinetic teaching methods we must remember that not all students learn by the same mechanism and the abstract works well for many students.

I think that an important part of improving education would be to reduce the paperwork for teachers and allow them to actually teach for the entire day as they did when I was in school. No federal interference in teaching. When I started school there was no kindergarten and the teacher had to teach two grades in the same room with about twenty students in each grade. The teacher was pretty mediocre but still had enough control over the classroom that she was able to get the basics across to virtually all the students she taught. She also handled speech therapy for those needing it and assisted the retarded students to help them learn something.

Finally, we need to remember that schools are still teaching future astronauts, doctors and politicians successfully and that there are many dedicated teachers out there who's single goal is the education of the students under their care. The kids can learn if we remove the impediments and if the parents do their part and are truly interested in the success of their children.

Hmmm…. Interesting,
Devin's all for the control of society by some supreme authority, Socialized Health Care, the authority should make sure every family has a "living wage" but the one area where we (the U.S.) mimics his ideals the closest (our educational system) he doesn't like it.
Yep that's a liberal for ya

This has been a fantastic thread. It does my heart good to see so many with sincere concern for our public education system. I was troubled to hear about the "missing money" in St. Louis. Those who would steal from our schools are no better than child molesters in my opinion. Another despicable bunch are those in the Christian Right who seek to highjack our schools and turn them into Christian based institutions where the emphasis is on Bible study. Now I know their "official" spin is that they only want "voluntary prayer" in schools. But I've been privy to their back room huddles and believe me. For these people "voluntary prayer" is only the beginning. These folks are convinced that if they could manage to slip voluntary prayer in, it would be only a matter of time before you'd see classes on the schedule of public schools with titles like "Understanding Revelations 101."

When we have adults who see schools as a means to embezzle money or promote their political ideals, it's easy to see why public schools are in such a state. I guess one of the first things to do would be to stop hiring fox's to watch the hen house, and fire the ones that are already there.

Devin, good article.I agree with a lot of your views. In this day and age I believe it is almost impossible to get a decant education in a room with 30 kids and one teacher. Especially when half of them would rather be roaming the malls or taking in a movie. The zeal has gone out of learning. And it sure has gone out the window for some teachers who must do more discipling and refereeing than teaching. But how do you give up on something you love to do?

More Graphics at pYzam.com


For sharing this article....

Brenda,

Don't give up. Keep on going as long as you can -- every bit makes a difference. I still vividly recall the one's who made all the difference for me -- and all the more reason to start EARLY.

I agree Missy,
I too had a few teachers who were diamonds among the mud. I had a music teacher in junior high that was amazing. She made classical music not just interesting, but exciting. Her name was Mrs. Olglesby and she had an understanding of composers like Bach and Mozart that would put the most renouned historians to shame. Each year the Phoenix school district sponsored a music memory contest. Students able to demonstrate a passing score on the music memory test got to attend a concert with the Phoenix Philharmonic Symphony at the Grady Gammage auditorium located on the campus of Arizona State university. While most of the other junior high schools reported around 60% of their students earning the privilidge of attending the concert, Emerson Junior High more often than not reported closer to 100% of their students earning that right. And it was because of Mrs. Oglesby. Another note worthy of mention was that a very famous singer was a fellow student of Mrs. Olgelsby from an earlier year named Wayne Newton.

http://www.clickertrain.com/whatis.html

this is one way to deal with all student behavior. Use operant conditioning to reward good behavior and suppress bad behavior. typically clicker training is associated with animals such as dogs and horses but we are fundamentally animals at many layers of our bodies and our brains. So why not take advantage of that fact, why not train people to do the right thing in a more humane and successful manner than the techniques currently used in schools and the corporate realm.

There are some good ideas here - for instance, smaller classes. Another major improvement would be teaching critical thinking. This could begin at a surprisingly young age.

I think more and more parents like me will be homeschooling our kids. At first I was not sure about it and it was pretty much the suggestion of the school district my kids would normally attend. But we live quite rural and winter time it is not easy to get to the bus stop 2 and half miles away. We have small children. The oldest is soon eleven. I had to juggle school, work and younger childrens needs and didn't always get to the bus stop on time. It was not working. Hubby too had problems. We had to have the girls at the bus stop at 7:45 which meant dragging all the kids out of bed including the baby and taking them to the bus, then if the bus was early we missed it or wait when it was late. Then home then down at noon for the Kindergartener. Dragging the little ones again with when they should have been going down for a nap. Then back and then down at 3:45 for the second grader. We also have wild animals not to mention people driving along for firewood or hunters and we couldn't have our children walk. So after a lot of missing and thing the school came out saw our situation and advise we homeschool. We are working on building a place or building on a place hopefully by spring with more room. But after we started homeschooling the kids have all done a lot better. I just need to get them out involved with other social things more. Like scouts, Awanas or 4-H and things. Plan to do that this year. They do have church and we see friends who have kids not in our church Plus belong to Wall-eye club a family fishing group. The girls are low in a couple areas most kids have weak areas but my 8 year old is able to do 7th grade level science and social studies and so is my 5th grader working above her grade and age level. With the Standard acheivement tests we know the weak areas to work on and do that. People who see our kids are amazed at how articulate they are and their knowledge. Homeschooling works for us the best. My parents help as well. Dad is a certified teacher. I agree that the schools pretty much teach things that have any real value to us in our adult life. A lot we can learn if we choose as adults. Mostly Trivia that we never utitilize like some presidents speech or the names of the pilgrams ships why do we need to know that?