• Home
  • Friends
  • Groups
  • Share

SIGN IN | HELP
barackobama2008.gather.com
  • group home|
  • featured|
  • posts|
  • photos|
  • videos|
  • members
by David K.
Member since:
April 29, 2007

New Report Updates Climate Change Science - It's Getting Worse, Faster

October 01, 2009 02:59 PM EDT
views: 473 | comments: 144

In anticipation of the UN Climate Change Conference in Copenhagen, the International Alliance of Research Universities has issued a report presenting an update of a broad range of research relating to climate change.  The report synthesizes "the newest research results relating to climate change and what action can be taken in response to climate change."

According to the IARU, "the 36 page report is written for non-specialists and is based on discussions and presentations made at the scientific congress “Climate change: Global Risks, Challenges & Decisions” held in Copenhagen in March."

The report is organised into six key messages:

1. Climatic Trends. Recent observations indicate that many aspects of the climate are changing according to the more severe IPCC projections. Sea level rise is changing at even greater rates than IPCC projections and new modelling methods suggest a rise of around one metre by 2100. Since 2007, Arctic sea ice has rapidly decreased. Recent work has indicated that the vulnerability of natural carbon sinks will further amplify these changes.

2. Social and Environmental Disruption. Although a 2ºC rise is the quoted threshold above which climate change is deemed dangerous, this level still has significant risks for society and the environment. For example, modelling studies indicate that a 2ºC temperature rise would double the death rate caused by heatwaves. Increasing atmospheric CO2 is causing acidification of the oceans and threatening marine ecosystems. There are already reports of 19 per cent decrease in the growth of Great Barrier Reef corals.

3. Long-term strategy: Global targets and timetables. Recent studies indicate that if the peak and subsequent decline of greenhouse gases (GHGs) does not occur until after 2020, emission reduction rates will have to exceed 5 per cent per year to meet the 2ºC threshold. Immediate reductions are needed with a long-term expectation that carbon prices will rise.

4. Equity Dimensions. The impacts of climate change are greater for the poor, the uneducated and the isolated. In a 2050 world of 9 billion people, carbon emissions per capita will need to be about 2 tonnes of CO2 per annum, or less, to avoid dangerous climate change. Current per capita emissions vary widely. For example, in the USA they are over 20 tonnes and in China (which has the greatest total emissions) they are 4 tonnes.

5. Inaction is inexcusable. Renewable energy technologies are already available and, combined with reduced energy use and improved efficiency, they have the potential to achieve a 50 per cent decrease in GHG emissions by 2050. There are also positive developments in land management, deforestation and transport.

6. Meeting the Challenge. Cultural dimensions of climate change need to be included in research and policy. For example, a recent analysis indicated that 12 billion people could be nourished on less than one third of the present agricultural area by using the best sites for the most appropriate crops. Linking climate change with broader consumption and production issues can help sustainable development but will require long-term global deals.

The full report can be downloaded at the IARU conference site here.

If you skipped over it, go back and read key message 1 above.  It's getting worse, faster than we had anticipated. 

The time to act is now.

view all photos
You need the latest Adobe Flash Player.
Install the player now
Expand Tags: climate change, global warming, cop
Expand To Groups: Everything Accepted!, Points Generator, Political Futures, Progressive Politics, Current Hot topics., 2008 Archive - any article created in 2008, All About You And Me, Gathering For...., Hawk's Aerie, Artistic MindsĀ®, Article and Photos (post any thing group), Democracy 2.0, Best Of Gather, Get the point?, Climate change, Gatherism, The Political Discussion Group, History Hub, Anything and Everything, All for views, Independent Minds, Post It All!, One Article at a time, Political News Hound, Carol Lloyd, America, this is our moment. This is our time, ! 2009 Gather Archive !, Points Points Points, Environment Friends, WE HEART GATHER!, Rake 'em in! Rack 'em up!, YaDaYadaYada, Sustainability for Real People, ! Sentient Majority !, Political Punchbowl, Points - Whatever You Want To Post, *P*O*S*T**I*T**A*L*L**2*0*0*8**, presidential points, global warming, Jump In The Spotlight!, Sci-tech for writers, Middle Ground, Expand Your Mind, Intelligent politics, Obama-Biden Watch 2008-2012, The Greenhouse Effect, Friends on Gather, Northern Virginians Unite!, It's all good, Orange Juice, Take Care of Your Share, politics and international news, Vote 2008!, This & That, Affairs of the State, Posting Frenzy, All Things Politics, This, That and the Other, 2008 Resolutions, Comprehensive Energy Reform, Midwest Skeptic Society, Free Thinking, Global Warming, All Top Ten Lists, Gather it All and Share it with Your Friends, Media Bytes, The Commons, The News Cafe, Science on the Edge, Now where did I put those points?, Any article, picture or comment...Oh My!, Saving Our Environment, Earth Day, The Practical Green, Earth School, !Point it Out!, We the People, Political, Social, and Religious Views Forum, Gather Politics Essential, The Shameless Self-Promoters Group, Science for Everyone, Barack Obama's Presidential Appointments, Bills and Policies, change, Rejected? Never here, post it all!, Prove it!, ! You Read What? on Gather !, News & Commentary Videos, Desperate Gatherwives - Publish Anything, ! Post Office @ Gather Town !, Pilers Anonomous, Ariel's View of Politics, History and News, Political Boxing, Type and post What You want AND dont get Deleted!, Post anything..., !!na na hey hey we want points!!, What Friends Are For, Innovation Futures, Politics Corps, Unified Individualists, !!!TODAY'S TOP PHOTOS AND ARTICLES!!! (submit your favorite articles and photos), Vivians Various Variable Voluminous oh just Post it all, Monkey Around To 3000, Things You Should Know About, Point me to the Points!, Barack Obama for President, Disagreeing without being disagreeable, science and mathematics, Think Globally Act Locally, A Pathway to Points... post it all, A new beginning to a new year, A place for all you point gatherers to connect!, The Nonconformist, ! Go Green, Debating Politics, Points Maximizer, @ to Z - Post everything from A-Z (minus the X stuff), The Conservative Club, **Let's Get Together~ Post anything!**, aworldgroup4all, Intelligent Thought, You Gotta Love it!!, One Hundred Comments, Nonprofit Nation, 2009: All things created in '09, Tidbits From the Past, Isn't it about TYME?, IT'S ALL ABOUT THE POINTS - POINTS MAXIMIZER - JOIN MY GROUP, Change the World, Inviting-Points, Points Extravaganza, People With Something To Say, The Intellectual Activist, Democratic Vision, Alternative Energy, Politico, Think About This, Arielle's Points Parlor, Gatherites for John McCain, ! Get To The Points, Popular Science Writing, Opinionated Opinions, Global Warming and Climate Change, !!! ViewMasters !!!, all about mother nature, Science & Beyond, News, Politics and the Economy, THE WHATEVER GROUP, Politics Today
recommend this
email
print
link to this page
Paste this link into an email or IM
Bookmark this post:
Facebook
Twitter
Delicious
Buzz
More

Comments: 144

Peter Joseph Swanson Oct 1, 2009, 3:03pm EDT
I think that's the one I saw on BBC News.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Richard B. Oct 1, 2009, 3:21pm EDT
This is good news as there is already way too many people
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Purrrrrrrrrrr~Genki dashite~Nantoka naru-yo! S. Oct 1, 2009, 3:44pm EDT
messages everyone needs to hear and ACT ON~ but do you think they really will~ humanity is on a global downward slide into mindless self annihilation~
Purrrrrrrrrrr~Genki dashite~Nantoka naru-yo! S. Oct 1, 2009, 3:45pm EDT
most are so self centered they can't see beyond their couch or the remote or the bags of Mickey D's~
David K. Oct 1, 2009, 3:58pm EDT
I certainly hope we act on them. Climate change legislation was introduced in the Senate yesterday, the COP meeting is in December, and people are starting to think seriously about policy options. All are good signs, but inertia is a hard thing to overcome.
Johnice R. Oct 1, 2009, 4:23pm EDT
"...inertia is a hard thing to overcome."

Like the GOP resistance to act--this should be interesting. I am waiting to hear the oil people argue in the predictable direction. The Coal miners are lobbying for a seat at the table and I know a little about coal--and it is NOT clean. Chemically, it is carbon burn it you get carbon, compress it you get carbon--aka diamond, it is still carbon.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
David K. Oct 1, 2009, 4:29pm EDT
A little sustainable development would be nice. The smart companies are already making profits innovating. Too bad some companies are holding on to their lifeboats as they sink, while dry land is only a short swim away.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Jack E. Oct 1, 2009, 5:05pm EDT
This is a very good report and should alert people to the accelerated rates of global warming and sea level rise. People cannot seem to grasp the fact that global warming does not just mean that the entire earth will heat up and burn, it also means that most of Europe will turn into a giant iceberg and North America will be flooded to the point we will not be able to raise food crops and people will live lives of misery and unimaginable hardship. Its the United States that is the biggest producer of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere yet France and other European countries are far ahead of us in using available technology to go green. This only happen in America through political interference led by corporation that fear losing profits by going green, not all corporations are fighting the changes we need but their are enough right now to stall good legislation that will give us and our future generations a chance at a good life. If America wants to lead the fight against global warming we have to do more than give other countries lip service to the problem.

I have supported the new technology available now as the best way to start cleaning up the environment. Some technology is not new like wind generators but are being improved all the time to make them more efficient and cost effective. I think we are making a big mistake in flooding the public with electric cars because at this time it will more use of conventional fuels to produce the needed electricity to keep these cars moving, its putting the cart before the horse.

The deniers are really a small group but well funded and can do a lot of harm and delay needed good legislation needed to clean up the environment.

I do not favor carbon credits as a way to help us go green because it just taxes the public and gives corporation more incentive to keep removing mountain tops, burn coal, oil and keep destroying the environment.

"This is good news as there is already way too many people", when I see people posting like this to good scientific reports it shows me the lack of concern a lot of people have for their own family and future generations, it seems to be the mind set in America on all the important issues facing us.



David K. Oct 1, 2009, 5:13pm EDT
I hope it stimulates some action.
sunil m. Oct 5, 2009, 6:32am EDT
David,Jack.....I am from India and have just today posted a post on my views with various links and was happy to then be linked to this article and to you David and am happy to read what you have so passionately written .....

I have written asking for a great ...Global Public out cry.......Today I cry as i see millions of people effected by floods here in South India [Its in the news]...they say its been the first of its kind in100years.......the people have no idea why all this happens.??How much proof do people want ??....Are we going to wake up when we are living in some sealed oxygen capsule ..in a community on the moon and looking down seeing our dear earth dispeared.

As Jack said I futher add that the present north pole pay be the new world.We will thn have a new colonialism.Countries will be figting to get a new country there..This not a joke...it may be a reality.
Steve B. Oct 6, 2009, 6:32pm EDT
"Today I cry as i see millions of people effected by floods here in South India [Its in the news]...they say its been the first of its kind in100years.......the people have no idea why all this happens.??How much proof do people want ??"

EXCELLENT QUESTION!!! Of course, cynics will claim that there is no proof that climate change causes these floods. That is mostly a phenomenon of statistics - statistics are valid for a large number of events, not single events. But the IPCC predicts increased frequency, intensity and duration of storms and droughts. You are seeing that in India. We see that in the U.S. Even Rupert Murdoch acknowledges Australia is in a millenial drought.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Chris W. Oct 1, 2009, 6:36pm EDT
some folks are busy reading Fred Singer nonsense apparently. It's nice to chat in their absence for once.
Yes David, agreed, the time to act is now. It's still like pulling teeth however. Add a few dollars to my electrical rates, how dare you even suggest such a thing. Cheap electricity is guaranteed by the Constitution, right?
Even Thomas Jefferson, bright and imaginative as he was, was not capable of imagining a world with so many energy-hungry humans that they endanger the functioning of the sky.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Col. George W. Oct 1, 2009, 6:54pm EDT
Love the title " Climate Change Science - It's Getting Worse, Faster" It certianly is, they are getting worse and worse with their phoney predictions.
Roy Shastid Oct 1, 2009, 9:31pm EDT
George ossification of a mind is not a pretty thing to regard. This is not a football game in which you cheer on your side. It is far too serious for this lamentable human trait. The future will judge you and your ilk harshly. Count on it.
Annmarie B. Oct 1, 2009, 10:29pm EDT
Well tonight Colorado is freezing. Wish it would warm up.
Col. George W. Oct 1, 2009, 11:23pm EDT
We have snow on the mountians now. First time in 9 years to have it this early. As pointed out several times weather is not climate.

Climate is determined by observing weather over a period of time. Therefore I can say with certianity that the Climate in MT has gotten colder since this has been the coldest weather, for the last several months, in memory.
Col. George W. Oct 2, 2009, 12:15am EDT
Annmarie. Chear up in 11 years it will be a couple of degrees warmer.
Nippy Katz (not his real name) Patriotic Troll of Gather Freedom Oct 3, 2009, 12:52pm EDT
One very possible result of the present trend in climate change is greater extremes in weather. It's very likely that we'll see more extreme temperatures on both ends of the scale and fewer average days.
Col. George W. Oct 3, 2009, 1:35pm EDT
This has been a year for that Nippy. Cold and rain in MT and hotter than normal and dry in TX. However it's hard to blame global warming since that has happened a lot over low these many years.
David K. Oct 5, 2009, 6:43pm EDT
This has been explained a hundred times. Please learn something.
Col. George W. Oct 5, 2009, 7:03pm EDT
I have David. I've learned that if it does not fit with your ideas it is wrong. Of course that is far from the truth.
David K. Oct 5, 2009, 10:02pm EDT
No, George, you have not. Look at what you have written and read the comments from others. Most of the time you are barely coherent, and virtually all of the time you can't get even the simplest facts straight. And no amount of copping out by whining that others disagree with you is going to change the fact that you don't know the facts. We're talking about facts, George, not opinions and not ideas, just bare facts.

Learn some facts, or at the very least, look them up and copy them correctly.

For example, go to where you said that degrees C is 5/9 of degrees F. Well, George, that's wrong. And when others told you it was wrong you simply said that's what it said at your source. But it didn't say that at your source. You got it wrong.

Then for good measure a couple of comments later you forget even that and somehow assume that two temperature systems with completely different scales (which you had already apparently figured out) could be treated as if they were exactly the same scale.

So not only didn't you get the facts right, you contradicted your own statement with an absolute lack of logic.

No, George, learn some facts, check them, try to understand them, and don't try to lecture others when you can't even sound coherent.

Only when you can get your facts straight and communicate coherently can anyone even begin to decipher enough meaning to agree or disagree with any opinion that might be hiding in your subconscious.
Col. George W. Oct 5, 2009, 11:13pm EDT
David, I took the F scale from one of your buddies when I found I had figured the 5/9 wrong and used his comparison. If I am wrong so is he.

Are you going to answer the question. Where does the US stand in per capata CO2 contributions or polution as you choose? I published the chart from one of your "scientists" so that should be easy for you. I posed a question answer it if you can.
David K. Oct 6, 2009, 7:39am EDT
No, George, you didn't take the F scale from one of the other commenters, as you say, "I got the C to F conversion out of my dictionary." So on top of still not being able to look up a simple conversion between scales, you feel the need to lie to protect your vanity. Why is that?

As for your question about "per capata [sic]" CO2 contributions, are you talking about your post "A QUESTION FOR GLOBAL WARING [sic] ENTHAUSASTS [sic]? Seriously? Take another look at it, George. Not only is it incomprehensible, with charts falling outside the borders so it can't even be read, it is irrelevant. Why? Because you conflate totally unrelated factors to the point where your question is meaningless, not to mention so far out from logical that one has to question your ability to even comprehend basic English. You certainly don't use it in your writing.

Don't understand where you conflated? Think 5.7 billion vs 54 million. Work it out from there.
Col. George W. Oct 6, 2009, 12:47pm EDT
In other words you don't know and can't answer why those small nations are at the top of the list.
Col. George W. Oct 6, 2009, 12:56pm EDT
"The U.K. Met Office concludes that without action a 7.2°F (4°C)" from Sam below. If 4 degrees C is 7.2 degrees F then 2 degrees C is half of that or just over 3 degrees."

Go down a ways and you will see Sam's comment. you will see also where I corrected my error.
David K. Oct 6, 2009, 5:41pm EDT
Gee, George, why don't you tell me "why those small nations are at the top of the list." Or what the table has to do with land area? Or why population doesn't seem to be important in your thinking? Or why the US shouldn't do anything just because some other countries have a higher per capita CO2 output (did we forget the population part)? Or maybe you could explain whether or not Qatar, for example, is or is not doing to reduce CO2?

In other words, understand what you write, rather than post something illogical and incomprehensible and expect others to tell you what it means, which of course you will deny, just like any other fact that you don't like, or more likely, don't understand.
David K. Oct 6, 2009, 5:42pm EDT
And no, you didn't correct your error. You never do. But since you have claimed twice now that you did correct your error, please copy your correction to the string PLUS indicate where it is in this thread (by date and time stamp).

Good luck, Mr. Phelps.
Steve B. Oct 6, 2009, 6:35pm EDT
Wasting your time, David.... Col. is old and comfortable. You may have better luck talking to his grandkids. They have more of a stake in this than any of us.
Col. George W. Oct 7, 2009, 12:10am EDT
David I listed the populations because I feel they are of vital importance. If I knew the answers I would not have asked the question. What is it that puts them at the top of the list? What are they doing that makes them the worst? Knowing what and why there could help us make wise decisions I would think.

For your information per capita means population (per person). your post seems to say you don't know that.

I ask a serious question and all I get from you is flack, thanks a lot.

Steve, why don't you go wash your car or something. You are not helping. Maybe you have an answer to the questions I jsut posted.


David K. Oct 7, 2009, 10:01am EDT
If I knew the answers I would not have asked the question.

It's true you don't know the answers, or even understand the question. But yet you draw an implied conclusion. How is that possible since you admit you don't understand what you presented?
Col. George W. Oct 7, 2009, 12:40pm EDT
You are the one pretending to be the expert on Global Warming David.
David K. Oct 7, 2009, 1:18pm EDT
I'm not pretending anything, George. Never have.

But your attempted deflection (again) doesn't change the fact that you began with a predetermined conclusion based solely on your ideology, then sought some tidbit you thought somehow supported your conclusion, and presented it without even understanding what, if anything, it meant.

That's the point. Get the facts correct first.
Jeannie B. Oct 7, 2009, 2:44pm EDT
Just because you can put a set of ditto marks around the word, that doesn't make the scientists engaged in climatology any the less experts.

Plus, David makes another valid point: Why does any of that mean the US should do nothing.

Point 3: I live in Washington. If you think last winter was the coldest in memory, you have a pretty short memory. It was a winter similar to the ones I experienced as a child. El Nino and La Nina have made the preceding several winters milder than normal, which made last winter seem more severe. While we here in Spokane did have one record snowfall (aka "Snowmegeddon"), neither snowfall nor temperature was anywhere as abnormal as you claim.

But the fact remains that the nay-sayers will continue to claim that "Global Warming" is a myth while the climate continues to change around them. Climate change (the more-accurate name of the phenomenon) entails a change in the overall climate. That change can be (and has been) experienced by a local decrease in average temperature, rainfall, etc; it can also be experienced as a local increase in all of the above. Saying "It was cold last winter" as if that factoid totally debunks conclusions derived from years of scientific research is disingenuous, to say the least.
Col. George W. Oct 7, 2009, 3:02pm EDT
David what you are saying is that you don't have a clue as to why. Just admit it and maybe you'll feel better.
Col. George W. Oct 7, 2009, 3:03pm EDT
Few deny Global Warming Jeannie. It is the Cause that is questionable.
David K. Oct 7, 2009, 3:41pm EDT
Actually, the cause isn't really questionable. At least not among the scientific community. It's the non-scientific free market organizations that seem to think that you can reach a conclusion based on dislike of possible policy solutions and then suggest that the science is not there. Medicine tastes bad, claim you aren't diseased.
David K. Oct 7, 2009, 3:42pm EDT
Jeannie, your last paragraph says it well.
Nippy Katz (not his real name) Patriotic Troll of Gather Freedom Oct 7, 2009, 4:00pm EDT
One very possible scenario for global warming is an increase in the extremes, i. e. higher highs, lower lows, and less "average" weather--a lower frequency of days at the median temperature.

Averages are not necessarily the most descriptive thing in some situations.
Col. George W. Oct 7, 2009, 4:13pm EDT
David if you know so much about the cause explain why 5 small nations lead in CO2 polution.
David K. Oct 7, 2009, 4:23pm EDT
See Jeannie's additional comment linking to a site with different rankings. Now how can that be?
Col. George W. Oct 7, 2009, 4:42pm EDT
I don't know David I got my rankings from one of your references or else one of Steve's.


David K. Oct 7, 2009, 7:47pm EDT
Why lie, George? You created a post in which you cite the numbers (as much as it can be read). Not me or Steve. And you know that.

And why don't you know where you really got the info? Didn't you link the original source? Didn't you evaluate the reliability of that source? How do you know if the numbers are real and not just made up by someone? Usually the original source provides context to understand what things mean.

So did you get it from the Wiki article? Or the original CDIAC source? The former is possible, the latter is highly doubtful. Or did you just get it from a blog or email you received? That might explain why you don't know where the information came from or what it means and doesn't mean.

Try linking your sources. Try reading them. Try thinking critically. It really does help you understand what you're presenting so you can have an honest, factual, informed conversation.

Not a sermon, just a thought.
Col. George W. Oct 7, 2009, 8:29pm EDT
Maybe you should start reading you own links David.
David K. Oct 7, 2009, 9:01pm EDT
George, I've been patient. But when you start completely tossing your integrity into the dung heap my patience stops.

Go ahead. Point to the links of mine that you refer to. The ones that somehow prove the point you were trying to make in an article you posted before I posted. The ones that somehow make the fact that you don't know what you even posted seem intelligible. The ones that somehow make your incorrect and illogical temperature comparisons no longer incorrect and illogical. The ones that make virtually everything you write sound uninformed and incomprehensible.

Go for it.

Post the actual links. No bumper stickers like your comment above with no meaning and no connection to any fact or even reality.

If you can do that, we can talk. Otherwise I'll take Steve's advice and let you talk to yourself. You seem comfortable with that.
Col. George W. Oct 7, 2009, 9:17pm EDT
Why David, don't you read the references you post and those of your friends?
David K. Oct 7, 2009, 9:22pm EDT
That's it, George. Bye.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Eric T. Oct 1, 2009, 8:00pm EDT
*Yawn* Well if it ain't Mr. World Net Daily himself, thinking science shouldn't suffice. But who cares about climate change, especially if WND himself won't be around to see it when things get real bad, even at the accelerated rate that David does a fine job in pointing out.
Eric T. Oct 1, 2009, 8:01pm EDT
Just to be clear, that comment was intended for the Ron Paul worshipper whose comment lies (in more ways than one) above.
Col. George W. Oct 5, 2009, 7:03pm EDT
I think I'll check out World Net Daily, thanks
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Col. George W. Oct 1, 2009, 11:33pm EDT
I read some of that speal you put up as a link. It says the temperature COULD be 2 degrees warmer in 2020. That is not much to worry about.

Here are some questions I would like to have answered.


“If humanity is to learn from history and to limit these threats, the time has come
for stronger control of the human activities”

**** What History? Has this happened before? If so what happened?

Temperature rises above 2oC will be difficult for contemporary societies to cope with, and are likely to cause major societal and environmental disruptions through the rest
of the century and beyond.

***** So what they are saying is that a 2 degree Celsius rise will cause problems? C is 5/9 F I think. So that would be 1.11 degrees F. It is 120 degrees in the shade at times with no shade so one degree or two is going to cause a problem?

***** It is cold on the arctic and Antarctic circles. Say 20 below C. Raise that ten degrees and Ice still remains ice. Is there a problem with that?


modern Homo sapiens evolved around 200,000 years ago.

*****Do they know about the new discovery, they just dug up a human skeleton that is 1 million years old.


These are off just the first few pages. I hate bad sales pitches.


Roy Shastid Oct 2, 2009, 7:33pm EDT
Where the hell did you pull this C to F conversion from, Your butt?? And that skeleton they found is not human it is a possible ancestor of Homo Sapiens. Good Lord You really do not get it. A degree in theology only qualifies you to speak on fairy tales not science. Please at least google something before committing your conceits to the medium. Cause I and others will be here to show you that arteriosclerosis of cerebral circulation is a tragedy for us all.
Col. George W. Oct 2, 2009, 8:03pm EDT
I got the C to F conversion out of my dictionary. If that is not correct kindly give me the correct one.

People ARE Homo Sapiens Roy.

I love the way pro Global Warming people think they have to demean people and call names to get their point across. It sounds so intelligent.
Eric T. Oct 2, 2009, 8:52pm EDT
"I love the way pro Global Warming people think they have to demean people and call names to get their point across. It sounds so intelligent."

Yeah, but you know what Colonel, you still have no qualms in being quickly judgemental with other people, like you did with me, in response to comments of mine on one of your posts, earlier this summer. If this is how ranking military officers, like you were, are prone to think, then it should be no wonder to We the People, as to why the military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan bode so poorly. So thank you for helping to make it clear, why taxpayer money being spent on such $h!t like war profiteering, is not taxpayer money well spent.
Col. George W. Oct 2, 2009, 9:54pm EDT
Eric you will have to refresh my memory. What post was that. I'll look it up.

"The U.K. Met Office concludes that without action a 7.2°F (4°C)" from Sam below. If 4 degrees C is 7.2 degrees F then 2 degrees C is half of that or just over 3 degrees. No such a big deal as its made out to be.
Eric T. Oct 2, 2009, 10:14pm EDT
Ahhh, how nice, playing the card of another former colonel that conveniently forgot certain tidbits. I am talking about Oliver North, in case you managed to conveniently forget that too!!!
Eric T. Oct 2, 2009, 10:38pm EDT
Okay, George, here you are. It was in a post of yours further spreading the birther conspiracy theory bull$h!t! That was proven time and again, but in any case, you had no problem making quick ASSumptions about me, and you had no problem NOT calling out Charles's (a.k.a. "Wolverine") racist comments, who happens to be gone completely from this site by the way. I wonder why!
Col. George W. Oct 2, 2009, 11:17pm EDT
Oh I looked and found no place I insulted anyone personally but I did find one of your comments to me.

" I will actually be laughing my head off at ignorant dolts like yourself, when you all decide to drop a load in your pants and scream "What have we done???". Intelligence and ignorance are not equal, nor in any way similar.

Bottom line: f**k you and every other willfully ignorant @$$hole like you that has ruined this country, and this planet!"

Now then did I call you names before or after you made that very intelligent comment?
Eric T. Oct 3, 2009, 9:12am EDT
"Now then did I call you names before or after you made that very intelligent comment?" Yeah, you called me a mixed up kid, and told me that I spout socialism, because of my previously expressed support for President Obama, and told me I am living capitalism, and spouting socialism. You simply have no idea how the f*ck I live my life. Your logic is twisted and you make snap judgements, but again, thanks for explaining the top brass military mind to all of us. Thank you for your disservice!!!
Col. George W. Oct 3, 2009, 9:46am EDT
You admitted you believe in Capitalism if I remember right. Yes I do have an idea of how you live your life. I may have been wrong in saying you were spouting socialism but I never called you names unless you consider that calling you names that are offensive. If so I apologize.

It seems to me we were having a rather good conversation untill that point and you got offensive on a personal level. I don't know you? Right, but your statements said you had guts enough to leave your place of residence and find work. That in itself tells me you must be a resourceful individual with a strong work ethic.

You are right an officer in the service does need to make judgements. i.e. you don't send a sluff-off Beatle Baily out to do an important job. You send soomeone who has shown he is reliable.

In my case I got the rank because I did the jobs no one else wanted or in most instances didn't have a skill I had. I have a nerve problem today because of it in that I constantly shake and can't even sign my name so anyone can read it. It's nice that you appreciate that, thank you.
Chuck L. Oct 3, 2009, 10:06am EDT
Are you two done? (Please say yes)
Col. George W. Oct 3, 2009, 10:09am EDT
Just killing time until I get an answer to my above questions.
Eric T. Oct 3, 2009, 10:14am EDT
Chuck, When certain people are finished using World Net Daily, Newsmax, Fox News, and other ultra biased sources of propaganda in a feeble effort to refute cold hard science and other common sense and fact, then I will call it quits. But with the way things look these days, it will be a cold day in hell, before that happens.
Col. George W. Oct 3, 2009, 10:36am EDT
Is the left leaning media any more reliable Eric? Why is this issue looked at along political lines? If it is that serious why are not all publications warning us about it. There should be nothing political about something this serious if it is fact.
Eric T. Oct 3, 2009, 10:43am EDT
"Is the left leaning media any more reliable Eric?" Some of it is a hell of a lot more reliable than Fox News, that is for damned sure. Its shining star, Glen Beck, being a perfect example. Calling Obama racist, railing on about FEMA concentration camps, to name a few, which are without evidence to back up. It is just plain sick. But in any case, it is no wonder to me that Jon Stewart, WHO IS A COMEDIAN, is considered to be the most trusted name in news.
Col. George W. Oct 3, 2009, 10:58am EDT
LOL I don't know who Jon Stewart is but I too find some of the antics of politics laughable.

The very fact that this has so much political overtones leads me to believe it is a political issue, and therefore not as real as claimed. Fox news is conservative, that's a given, but why would a conservative news source not be just as alarmed as anyone else if our very existance is threatened?
Eric T. Oct 3, 2009, 11:01am EDT
Because some of them, those whose names I have just given, just don't give a damn, or feel it is a threat to the bottom line of big mega corporations, and therefore believe endangering said profit margin is a threat to the most shallow sense of freedom imaginable.
Col. George W. Oct 3, 2009, 11:20am EDT
That don't wash very well Eric. How much damage would this do to a mega corporation if it is true? The mega corpoation would or should be more worried about it than anyone else. No profit, With devistation across the globe there would be a lot fewer customers. I don't think it has a thing to do with freedom. Freedom don't mean a thing to a dead man. We are talking a major event in which most if not all people will be wiped out.

To hear the Global Warming people talk this is about equilivant to a giant Asteroid headed toward earth.


Eric T. Oct 3, 2009, 11:41am EDT
Well regardless if you or I think it has anything to do with freedom, there are plenty who do. There is no giant asteroid headed for Earth, that is a fact. However, your attempts to refute man-made climate change are not effective, pur and simple. But in any case, yes, you are right that worldwide devastation would yield a lot fewer customers, but it doesn't take any expertise to figure that one out. Additionally, more than enough of the top level corporate execs, in power today, don't think long term. If that were not the case, the events of last year, and the fallout we continue to experience, would not have unfolded. George, I don't know anymore if it's too late for some things, but I will still say you really need to start actually thinking.
Purrrrrrrrrrr~Genki dashite~Nantoka naru-yo! S. Oct 3, 2009, 11:48am EDT
You will both now be graded on your debate on the Bull**it meter:
EricT: no Bull**it detected
Col. George: Registers at neck deep

Carry on
Roy Shastid Oct 3, 2009, 11:50am EDT
Dear George Lets see: You said: "People ARE Homo Sapiens Roy"."C is 5/9 F I think. So that would be 1.11 degrees F." Then oopsie, You looked it up and gorsh! it might be 3 degrees. *****"Do they know about the new discovery, they just dug up a human skeleton that is 1 million years old."<---your learned quote. Well if people (humans) are homo sapiens then you just stated a 1 million year old skeleton was of a Homo sapiens. Not true and you ought to look this up too. A red face of anger will not get you all that far in science. It might get your medication adjusted however.

Eric T. Oct 3, 2009, 11:54am EDT
One more thing (for now anyways), Roy just further proved my point about the need to start engaging in serious thought.
Col. George W. Oct 3, 2009, 12:09pm EDT
Because this is a political issue and because the scientists claiming global warming mostly get their funding from the UN it is wise to look at both sides of the claim. I don't buy things on sight very often. It pays to look at who is on the other side and what they have to say. Therefore I post the other side. It seems there is little doubt that global warming is occuring. However the cause is murky to say the least. Yes I agree we should find a different source of energy it is only reasonable. Oil can't do it all and I have serious doubts fossel fuels are the cause. I also have serious doubts that CO2 is a problem. CO is more likely what they mean when it comes to fossel fuels. If you can't look at both sides you will not be fully informed.
Purrrrrrrrrrr~Genki dashite~Nantoka naru-yo! S. Oct 3, 2009, 12:12pm EDT
I think a young chicklet in pasties and free Viagra from Pfizer is in order here~ spake Judge Purr who is still watching the Bull**it meter rise~
Col. George W. Oct 3, 2009, 12:14pm EDT
Another thing. All was quiet for a long time concerning Global Warming and now it is back, Why? Is the Cap and Trade bill coming up for a vote in the Senate? If that's the case, tell me it isn't pure political BS.
Eric T. Oct 3, 2009, 12:20pm EDT
Well, those who don't want alternative energy are the very same ones who say there is no global warming, or expect us not to think it through. They don't care that fossil fuels are in finite supply, and they sure as hell don't care about how we have to import oil from such volatile regions in the world.

Look I am not a climate scientist, a geologist, or what have you. But you wanna know why I am thoroughly convinced that man made climate change is for real? It all goes back to one of the most basic laws of science. For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. Since the industrial revolution, we have put so much junk into the environment (land, air, sea) that simply does NOT belong there... PERIOD! And with developing nations following the footsteps of the more so-called developed nations doing it, that is a multiplier effect. And the idea that these unfavorable changes could be happening at an accelerated rate, harken back to another basic but yet golden rule: expect the unexpected!
Purrrrrrrrrrr~Genki dashite~Nantoka naru-yo! S. Oct 3, 2009, 12:20pm EDT

Col. George W. Oct 3, 2009, 12:14pm EDT
If that's the case, tell me it isn't pure political BS.


It isn't pure political bullshit~
Eric T. Oct 3, 2009, 12:22pm EDT
Another thing. All was quiet for a long time concerning Global Warming and now it is back, Why? Is the Cap and Trade bill coming up for a vote in the Senate? If that's the case, tell me it isn't pure political BS.

Call it whatever you want, but the issue needs to be addressed, and cap and trade is one way to address it.
Col. George W. Oct 3, 2009, 12:39pm EDT
LOL Thanks Purrrrrrrrrr. That was a retorical statement.
Col. George W. Oct 3, 2009, 12:41pm EDT
The problem is Cap and Trade does little or nothing for the problem. It only shifts the polution. It is also the largest tax increase in history. That would not be a problem if it fixed a genuine disaster that is about to happen but it does not.
Purrrrrrrrrrr~Genki dashite~Nantoka naru-yo! S. Oct 3, 2009, 12:42pm EDT
Rhetorical is always optional~

come on off the silly soapbox~Col.~ and let's go foxtrot back into reality~ I'll lead and I'll even wear the little black dress with the *CENSORED*~ =D
Col. George W. Oct 3, 2009, 1:01pm EDT
Your comment, "Well, those who don't want alternative energy are the very same" etc.

Good point.
Col. George W. Oct 3, 2009, 1:29pm EDT
Purrrrrrrrrr, I wish I coud foxtrot with you but you would be picking me up off the floor. You must be a lot older than you icon shows the Foxtrot has not been done for years. I'll bet you're cute in your little black dress, oh to be young and healthy again!!!!!!
Purrrrrrrrrrr~Genki dashite~Nantoka naru-yo! S. Oct 3, 2009, 1:36pm EDT
I'm 43 going on 21~ =P I'm just well cultured~ well read~ and always open to many POV's~
Purrrrrrrrrrr~Genki dashite~Nantoka naru-yo! S. Oct 3, 2009, 1:37pm EDT
that should read fact based POV's ~ sowwies~
David K. Oct 5, 2009, 6:45pm EDT
An interesting back and forth. Most notably for the lack of coherence and ability to check even the simplest things on George's part. It's one thing to be uninformed. Another to actively avoid becoming informed.
Jeannie B. Oct 7, 2009, 2:55pm EDT
What History? Has this happened before? If so what happened?

One example: Krakatoa erupted in 1883, sending ash into the atmosphere . The resulting decrease in the mean temperature caused the "little Ice Age".

Scientists (no ditto marks) have examined ice cores which indicate that the climate has changed dramatically not once but many times over the Earth's lifespan.
Col. George W. Oct 7, 2009, 3:20pm EDT
Those are quotation marks Jeannie not ditto marks. But who cares.

Those problems were from natural phenomena, not man made. I suppose Mt St Helens had some effects on the climate for a while too. They indicate that man made climate change has happened before but that is not true. It makes one question their findings in other things as well.

Thank you for your answer, at least you didn't ignore it like the others.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
R. F. Oct 2, 2009, 3:20pm EDT
Cost of the American Clean Energy and Security Act of 2009 Found to Be Small According to Government Analyses

Climate Policy Memo #3: Cost of the American Clean Energy and Security Act of 2009 Found to Be Small According to Government Analyses

June 2009

For more information on this subject and other memos in this series, click here.

Economic analysis by its nature is better suited to providing insights and not absolute predictions of the future and when these insights are confirmed by more than one analysis, the results are typically considered more credible. With this in mind, two recent government analyses that looked at the costs of the cap and trade portion of the American Clean Energy and Security Act of 2009 (ACES) have found that the likely impact of this portion of the bill would be fairly small. Taking into account the included cost containment provisions and that much of the revenue raised by the bill would be returned in some fashion to households, both EPA and CBO suggest that household impacts would be less than $200 per year.


For More: http://www.pewclimate.org/acesa/costs
David K. Oct 6, 2009, 7:39am EDT
Thanks for the link, R.F.
Steve B. Oct 6, 2009, 6:38pm EDT
Ditto, R.F.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Sam Carana Oct 2, 2009, 8:26pm EDT
The U.K. Met Office concludes that without action a 7.2°F (4°C) global rise in temperature will be reached by 2070, possibly as early as 2060. See my most recent comment at: http://bit.ly/GlobalWarming
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Col. George W. Oct 2, 2009, 10:12pm EDT
Sam, the author in your link says wild fires are a very big contributer. You can thank the Environmentalists for that. The tree huggers have all but stopped the logging off of diseased trees that turn into tinder for lightning and that starts about 90 percent of forrest fires. The way he says it stopping forrest fires would all but solve the problem if in truth there is one.
Roy Shastid Oct 3, 2009, 11:54am EDT
What would the forests have done before we came here to manage them. Everyone knows that the Americas were a vast wasteland before white men got here. Go back to your garden and place a few more gnomes out there. Has your education suffered from the lessened availability of Readers Digest Condensed Books
Eric T. Oct 3, 2009, 11:58am EDT
And what about the Department of Agriculture's policy of clearcutting in our national forests, especially at the time Bush was President (although the finger can't be pointed solely at him for it, but he deserves a VERY large part of the blame).
Col. George W. Oct 3, 2009, 12:29pm EDT
What has forest fires before population have to do with polution Roy? It had a lot to do with it back then but now?
The Department of Agricullture has little to do with National Forests Eric. That is in the jurisdiction of the Forest Service and clear cutting is not as bad as the environmentalists claim because the areas are re-planted with new trees. What the environmentalist tree huggers have done to our national forests have destroyed a lot more trees than the logging industry because of their passion for not cutting out beetle infested trees. Montana has suffered great loss of forests because of that.
Eric T. Oct 3, 2009, 12:44pm EDT
Jesus Christ, George!!! Ya know what? The last comment of yours above mine really takes the cake, especially "The Department of Agricullture has little to do with National Forests Eric. That is in the jurisdiction of the Forest Service...". Why?? Per the Forest Service's web site, front page: "The Forest Service was established in 1905 and is an agency of the U.S. Department of Agriculture. The Forest Service manages public lands in national forests and grasslands, which encompass 193 million acres." Take a look for yourself: http://www.fs.fed.us/

It really is that kind of stuff that you spew, with clear disregard of the facts, that causes those of us to break down to call names, because we can't take it anymore, and it appears more and more likely, by the day, that it will collectively do us in.
Eric T. Oct 3, 2009, 12:52pm EDT
And oops, I forgot to mention this: "What the environmentalist tree huggers have done to our national forests have destroyed a lot more trees than the logging industry because of their passion for not cutting out beetle infested trees."

Okay, so which is it? Not cutting out beetle infested trees, or not cutting out trees at all. Yes, I know trees are replanted, and just purely FYI, no, I am not suggesting we stop cutting down trees completely. Selective cutting is far more environmentally responsible, possibly healthy, and we should rely more on recycled materials and other sustainable methods, which there are plenty.
Col. George W. Oct 3, 2009, 1:13pm EDT
When I worked in the woods it was the Forrest Service that marked the trees we could cut (clear cutting was not allowed then) and it was the Forest service man that got me fired for being under 18. The Department of Ag was the one I had to dodge when I worked on a ranch or farm.

Most of the trees they have prevented logging off or cutting out infestation are actually in places that are not being logged or the trees are too small for timber to be cut into lumber.

I agree we should rely more on sustainable methods and one of those is Industrial Hemp which the idoits in DC will not let the farmers grow because it LOOKS like it's cousing Marijuana. From that 20,000 products could be made including fuel for vehicles, plastic and other things that come from oil. Also it makes paper and that would preserve a lot of trees.

Selective cutting or clear cutting has been a debate for years.
Eric T. Oct 3, 2009, 1:24pm EDT
It's not just DC's fault that industrial hemp is still not being used, more of the blame rests on big corporate interests, particularly those that stand to lose big time if that were the case (big oil, and big lumber being the main examples), just like the insurance companies stand to lose big time with an overhaul of our health care system, should that take place. On the other hand, should one continue to insist on blaming the powers that be in DC, as being responsible for preventing the reinstitution of legal industrial hemp, understood, and in which case, they should all start with Ronald Reagan.
Col. George W. Oct 3, 2009, 1:44pm EDT
DC passed the law and DC can change it. The fact that there are a lot of special interests against it is DCs faultt too. They are not obligated to take the bribes.
Jeannie B. Oct 7, 2009, 3:54pm EDT
The tree huggers have all but stopped the logging off of diseased trees that turn into tinder for lightning and that starts about 90 percent of forrest fires. What has forest fires before population have to do with polution Roy? The first sentence answers the first, CGW. You done answered your own question. And FYI, settlers cut down quite a bit of virgin forest (especially east of the Mississippi) in favor of farmland. As the population increased, forested land decreased. Plus, there are still places right here in the West where there are pitched battles between logging interests (and timber poachers) and defenders of old-growth forests (e.g. Olympic National Park and the redwoods)

The Department of Agricullture has little to do with National Forests Eric. That is in the jurisdiction of the Forest Service... As has been said above, the Forest Service is an agency of the Dept of Ag.

What the environmentalist tree huggers have done to our national forests have destroyed a lot more trees than the logging industry because of their passion for not cutting out beetle infested trees. Like the loggers would take infested trees!
Col. George W. Oct 7, 2009, 4:26pm EDT
Yes the loggers would take infested trees. Every time a logging operation starts up in Montana to get rid of those infested trees the tree huggers take them to court.

Even if the trees are too far gone to make lumber they can be used for posts and for pulp wood to make paper. The thing is to get them down and out before the infect other trees and eventually a whole forest.
David K. Oct 7, 2009, 8:02pm EDT
The infested trees discussion, besides being way off the topic of this post, is more than a bit simplistic. And to think that loggers are altruistic and hunt down infested trees so they can protect the forest is misguided, well, actually, it's fantasy land. Keep in mind that logging mainly consisted of clearcutting every tree in a forest before federal regulations came in to try to protect ecosystems, biodiversity, endangered species, and reduce erosion. It was just cheaper to cut out everything and sort them out later. Much of it was wasted until companies were forced to internalize the societal costs of clearcutting old growth forests. Once that happened the logging companies became much more innovative in finding ways to use the various "trash lumber" (just like fishermen learned how to use "trash fish" rather than just dump them overboard). They also learned that it pays to replant forests, though that in itself is problematic because the replanting is monoculture versus the much more diverse natural forests.

Bottom line is that given free rein, companies seek to minimize their costs (often by externalizing it to society) and maximize profit. That's how business works. Regulations protect the environment and the public and actually stimulate innovation as companies are forced to deal with the costs they had previously foisted upon society, consumers, and taxpayers. Most companies today make profit off what used to be waste that they dumped, usually in ways that cost us all much more later.
Col. George W. Oct 7, 2009, 8:44pm EDT
A. Off topic? Forest fires are supposed to be a large source of CO2 in the atmosphere.

B. Loggers don't hunt down trees that are infested, the Forest Service does.

C. Clear cutting was encouraged by the Forest Service and the practice of re-planting was started by lumber companies on their private property to re-grow trees for harvest.

Obviously you know less about the timber industry than you think you know.

A lot of the newer uses of trees has been brought on by new innovation not by government. A pile of sawdust now can be made into fireplace logs and into sheets of wood. Chips can be made into chip board. That's called innovation and using what used to be discarded to make money government had nothing to do with it.
David K. Oct 7, 2009, 9:14pm EDT
Seriously George. Stop embarrassing yourself. Try making some sense. For example:

A. Off topic? Forest fires are supposed to be a large source of CO2 in the atmosphere.

The comment was related to your diversion into infested trees, not forest fires. Perhaps if you tried sticking to one topic rather than hopscotching around every time someone counters your unsupported statements it wouldn't get so hard for you to follow.

B. Loggers don't hunt down trees that are infested, the Forest Service does.

Then why did you say "Yes the loggers would take infested trees. Every time a logging operation starts up in Montana to get rid of those infested trees the tree huggers take them to court" in your comment above? Are you changing your story again? Every time someone counters something you say you simply rewrite history as if people can't just read back at what you wrote (which is all still there).

C. Clear cutting was encouraged by the Forest Service and the practice of re-planting was started by lumber companies on their private property to re-grow trees for harvest.

You have a source for that George? Obviously clear cutting and forestry practices in general is more complex than the simplified discussion we've had so far here. But to suggest that lumber companies are altruistic is to buy in to the company propaganda just a little more than is credible, George. Bet they told you a lot of things 50 years ago.

Obviously you know less about the timber industry than you think you know.

I'm pretty comfortable with my knowledge of the timber industry. Especially given the superficial nature of a few comments traded on a social networking site.

A lot of the newer uses of trees has been brought on by new innovation not by government. A pile of sawdust now can be made into fireplace logs and into sheets of wood. Chips can be made into chip board. That's called innovation and using what used to be discarded to make money government had nothing to do with it.

Guess you conveniently forget all the government incentivizing that stimulated companies to seek innovative ways to handle what used to be low value collateral damage.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Ed Da Head Toker Oct 3, 2009, 4:53am EDT
I am all for cleaner air.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Chuck L. Oct 3, 2009, 10:10am EDT
Colonel, PLEASE... You're embarrassing us old folks. You obviously have had zero scientific education, beyond high school basics, and you've apparently forgotten those. To quote "The Good Doctor" (Assimov), you're not qualifiedD to hold an opinion in this discussion. Sorry... you just aren't.
Col. George W. Oct 3, 2009, 10:39am EDT
Neither are you Chuck. All you do is quote employees of the UN. Tell me my friend where does the US stand in the per capata list of poluters acording to your sources.
Roy Shastid Oct 3, 2009, 11:55am EDT
Go to the corner. Find young people to shake your finger at. Repeat as necessary.
Purrrrrrrrrrr~Genki dashite~Nantoka naru-yo! S. Oct 3, 2009, 12:02pm EDT
*smirk*
Scott Soperson Oct 3, 2009, 3:16pm EDT
http://www.ucsusa.org/global_warming/science_and_impacts/science/each-countrys-share-of-co2.html

in total carbon emissions the USA is number two. but i don't think that counts the last one hundred years of carbon emissions.
Scott Soperson Oct 3, 2009, 3:17pm EDT
http://www.ucsusa.org/global_warming/science_and_impacts/science/each-countrys-share-of-co2.html

in per capita emissions the USA is number two behind australia.
Chuck L. Oct 3, 2009, 3:57pm EDT
Col. George W. Oct 3, 2009, 10:39am EDT (in response to my statement that he is not qualified to hold an opinion in a scientific discussion)
Neither are you Chuck. All you do is quote employees of the UN.

Actually, Colonel, I am. I do, in fact, hold two science degrees, so I understand the scientific process... which you do not. As for "UN employees," wouldn't know one if I killed it, but if you're talking about scientists whose research was funded by UN grants... yep, you betcha. You see, those scientists work like other scientists (except for actual payroll johnnies who just get paid to use their degrees as backdrop while they pooh-pooh REAL science - they never really DO science). The UN-funded scientists, as do all other scientists, spend their careers trying to falsify their results (i.e., prove their hypotheses and theories WRONG!). THAT'S scientific method, Colonel. That's how they HAVE to work, if they're to have ANY credibility in the scientific community AT ALL.

In this case, the denier scientists primary problem is that they've forgotten this requirement, and they're trying to prove themselves RIGHT. They'll NEVER achieve acceptance of their ideas doing THAT!
Jeannie B. Oct 7, 2009, 3:57pm EDT
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/env_pol_car_dio_per_cap-pollution-carbon-dioxide-per-capita

Actually, according to this site, "we're number 1!"
Col. George W. Oct 7, 2009, 4:51pm EDT
SOURCE: Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, Paris, France, OECD Environmental Data Compendium
David K. Oct 7, 2009, 8:08pm EDT
Source of what, George? OECD publishes hundreds of documents. Which document? Which page? Where is the link?

And why did you give us what appears to be a partial source for what Jeannie already provided to us in the URL presented in the comment immediately above yours?

We're looking for your source; she already provided hers.
Col. George W. Oct 7, 2009, 8:30pm EDT
I got that from Her source. That's where they got their information. From an economic coop.
David K. Oct 7, 2009, 9:24pm EDT
No they didn't George. Jeannie's source shows the US as number one per capita while your source shows US number 9. Remember.

Sorry, due to your inability to discuss this honestly, the conversation is over. Bye.
Col. George W. Oct 7, 2009, 10:25pm EDT
Then look at the source they list.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Roy Shastid Oct 3, 2009, 1:58pm EDT
George. Time to go home. Your lunch has been eaten. Twinkies smashed and wrappers scattered. This is not a win or loss to me, It is only worth this expenditure of energy if it makes you or someone else questions some assumptions. I do not want to be bound into a mutual suicide pact cause either of us are fixed on defending our ideas/perceptions to the death. Every living thing on this earth depends on us to make some better decisions. We both share blame in this as do uncountable others. Liberal means also that questioning the maxims of the past is permitted. Come join the side of light.


reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Scott Soperson Oct 3, 2009, 3:21pm EDT
http://stats.org/stories/2008/global_warming_survey_apr23_08.html

only 5% of climate scientists believe that humans do not contribute to global warming.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Scott Soperson Oct 3, 2009, 3:22pm EDT
The scientific consensus is clearly expressed in the reports of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC). Created in 1988 by the World Meteorological Organization and the United Nations Environmental Programme, IPCC's purpose is to evaluate the state of climate science as a basis for informed policy action, primarily on the basis of peer-reviewed and published scientific literature (3). In its most recent assessment, IPCC states unequivocally that the consensus of scientific opinion is that Earth's climate is being affected by human activities: "Human activities ... are modifying the concentration of atmospheric constituents ... that absorb or scatter radiant energy. ... [M]ost of the observed warming over the last 50 years is likely to have been due to the increase in greenhouse gas concentrations" [p. 21 in (4)].

IPCC is not alone in its conclusions. In recent years, all major scientific bodies in the United States whose members' expertise bears directly on the matter have issued similar statements. For example, the National Academy of Sciences report, Climate Change Science: An Analysis of Some Key Questions, begins: "Greenhouse gases are accumulating in Earth's atmosphere as a result of human activities, causing surface air temperatures and subsurface ocean temperatures to rise" [p. 1 in (5)]. The report explicitly asks whether the IPCC assessment is a fair summary of professional scientific thinking, and answers yes: "The IPCC's conclusion that most of the observed warming of the last 50 years is likely to have been due to the increase in greenhouse gas concentrations accurately reflects the current thinking of the scientific community on this issue" [p. 3 in (5)].

Others agree. The American Meteorological Society (6), the American Geophysical Union (7), and the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS) all have issued statements in recent years concluding that the evidence for human modification of climate is compelling (8).
David K. Oct 5, 2009, 6:46pm EDT
Thanks for all the information, Scott.
sunil m. Oct 8, 2009, 3:44am EDT
I was just going through European Environment Agency Report which says:-
"The impacts of climate change on Europe's environment and society are shown in this report. Past trends in the climate, its current state and possible future changes are presented using 22 selected indicators. For almost all of these a clear trend exists and impacts are already being observed. The report highlights the need to develop strategies at European, national, regional and local level for adapting to climate change."
Here is a presentation they have:-
http://www.eea.europa.eu/publications/climate_report_2_2004/climate_change_impacts_presentation.pdf

Europe too have the same conclusions....Scott and David
[Full Report ]http://www.eea.europa.eu/publications/climate_report_2_2004/impacts_of_europes_changing_climate.pdf
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Scott Soperson Oct 3, 2009, 3:23pm EDT
http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/306/5702/1686

the scientific consensus is that humans contribute to global warming.
Chuck L. Oct 3, 2009, 3:59pm EDT
see also my comment about five above
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Chris W. Oct 3, 2009, 11:45pm EDT
Scott, good job with the reality-based stuff. Yes, it is what it is. I would argue that human burning of fossil fuels DRIVES climate change, but okay, "contributes to" is acceptable. And thanks for explaining the IPCC to Col. George. He's not paying attention of course.

Colonel George, wait a minute, you don't know who Jon Stewart is? What the heck.
Roy Shastid Oct 4, 2009, 12:49pm EDT
More properly "Wiskey Tango Foxtrot"
Scott Soperson Oct 4, 2009, 10:29pm EDT
some repubs lie a lot. some lie to themselves.
Jeannie B. Oct 7, 2009, 4:00pm EDT
LOL Roy. And if this goes on, we're all "Tango Uniform".
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Chris W. Oct 4, 2009, 1:10pm EDT
true Roy. That's what I actually said to myself, I was just trying to keep it clean. I figure that the Colonel has restrictive tastes in his media.
Roy Shastid Oct 4, 2009, 5:50pm EDT
Well Chris My work here is done...Want to go find another mole to whack?
David K. Oct 5, 2009, 6:46pm EDT
Thanks for commenting in my absence.
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Nippy Katz (not his real name) Patriotic Troll of Gather Freedom Oct 6, 2009, 5:50pm EDT
Please tell me that one Celsius degree is bigger than one Fahrenheit degree. :)

Of course the dirty little temperature secret is at -40.
David K. Oct 6, 2009, 7:03pm EDT
Not the dreaded -40 degrees....

:)
Jeannie B. Oct 7, 2009, 4:02pm EDT
Celsius is a scale of 0 to 100; Farenheit's scale is 1 to 212; both with the high end being the boiling point of water at sea level.
David K. Oct 7, 2009, 4:20pm EDT
To clarify, both scales go on in both directions. The two endpoints most used are that of water freezing (0C, 32F) and water boiling (100C, 212F).

Nippy's reference to -40 is the one temperature that is the same on both scales.

Of course, if you really want to liven up a party, we could get into the fact that there are also the Rankine scale, the Kelvin scale, Newton's scale, and a few other scales (starting to sound like a fish). :)
reply to this comment
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Join Gather »
Already a member? Sign in
Chelle M. Oct 7, 2009, 3:04am EDT