An open letter to our nation's leadership

A recent poll showed that 53% of Americans favor replacing "the whole damn congress" as she says. It sounds like a lot of people agree with her.

Randy, I've been saying that for a long time. In many responses to some issues above I have even offered possible solutions which for the most part have fallen on deaf ears. People like the anonymous author above, will need to unite on the Internet which will prove to be the means to get results. Now if we can only get people to focus on the issues instead of hearing themselves talk; their words only ending up in cyberspace nothingness. We need to organize as a united force to remain a free people in a so-called free country. If we do nothing, we deserve everything we get.

Well said, Simon! I agree. No one has listened to me, either. I hope we can turn things around before we lose our freedom.

Thank you Jan, I've also noticed your good and wise contributions here on Gather.

As I suggested in another post comment, maybe a retired person could organize good ideas and open them up for debate here on Gather. Those ideas and suggestions could be fined tuned and finally put to a vote, and then sent to the White House. They can’t ignore a large number of voters with a public forum and voice.

Simon and Jan, I agree. I think there are two groups on Gather that make debate on the issues difficult.

The nonpartisan group is not interested in assigning blame and wants to discuss ideas on the basis of what's good for the country. The partisans are interested in assigning blame and want to argue on the basis of what is good for their party.

Perhaps we should start a nonpartisan group and encourage more discussions on that basis.

Blaming accomplishes nothing unless we establish blame to avoid re-electing the people who make mistakes or make dishonest, backroom deals.

I like the idea of a non-partisan group. I've stopped reading the rude and ranting posts in some groups. No one is willing to be reasonable.

Oh this is funny,
I have never seen Jan S or Randy W make anything but conservative statements and posts.

Non partisan does not equal non-ideological
Both of you are very conservative and very anti Democrat Party.
How could you ever participate in a non-partisan discussion?

I would have responded the same way as the 53%. I agree with the points made in this post. There has been so much change, chaos and confusion since January that the American people are spinning. That may be exactly what the socialists are hoping for. If the people are fearful, divided, bitter and confused, it is much easier to fool them. Look how much has been rushed into law already.

Clarity of thought you have Jan.

In many ways our country is already a socialist controlled nation. I really believe that a united people using the Internet, in a productive and organized way, can make a big difference. You can also bet that the powers that be are going to tax the Internet in the near future while they tax us into the poorhouse. We are all being manipulated into complacency. A free people need to exercise their freedoms and get involved. As Paddy Chayefsky wrote in the film “Network” “We’re MAD as hell and we’re NOT going to take it anymore!” Now there's a novel idea.

I can't read this one often enough .... ! Thanks for posting it.

Except ... it's not the one I thought it was? And I don't think the link leads to the letter?

Lee, wrong link. Sorry.

My bad, but it's fixed now.

No problem Randy. Thanks. :)

I received this letter to and all I can say is "DITTO!"

Most people are too caught up in their own struggle to get by to spend much time focusing on politics. Maybe I'm one of those conspiracy nuts but I often think that's just the way the politicians and power brokers like it. Feed the peons just enough to keep them think they are fortunate to be citizens of this great country but don't let them see the real story. The "Parties" have been building a house of cards for years while making us think they are working for us. It's called the entitlement mentality and the more you make people think they are entitled, and you hold the entitlements, the more people will consider you essential. The real problem is, the handouts are paid for with debt. The house of cards will eventually crumble into a third world country with soup kitchens and apple vendors on every corner.

You're right Rex, but as I wrote above, and suggested in another post comment, maybe a retired person could organize good ideas and open them up for debate here on Gather. Those ideas and suggestions could be fined tuned and finally put to a vote - and then sent to the White House. They can’t ignore a large number of voters with a public forum and voice. It would also utilize our time here in a more meaningful and productive way instead of just hearing ourselves talk while our words only end up lost into the nothingness of indecision. From any peoples’ complacency, the end result is of our own making when we let others have powers over our lives.

Rex, I think for the first time in a long time there are real differences between the parties that need serious discussion.

I agree that there usually isn't a dime's worth of difference between the parties, and the pols like it when the people are caught up in partisan wrangling, but this time it's different. For example, we all admit we need health care reform, but I haven't seen a single discussion devoted to what we really need in this country.

The politicians sure don't know, and they're all beholden to interest groups that write their bills for them. If "We the people" don't know what we want, we sure can't blame the politicians for not giving it to us!

I think that's a good idea, Simon. I would gladly participate. Not to put a damper on the idea or enthusiasm needed but I would be mainly concerned in dismantling the parties, as they now exist, with an eye on a structure that contained several smaller parties that could make a concensus of different interests essential. What we have now is what I would call the professional wrestling of politics. All the participants have the same agenda, planned behind closed doors, orchestrated to provide entertainment, and always having the same predetermined outcome. Dems and Reps don't mind losing to each other because the players never change. Try to get them to allow a few more players in and see what happens. There's the rub.

Rex and Simon, a good start. I would argue that the two party system has served us well until the growth of government increased the financing for big money lobbyists to protect the interests that were being shaken down by the professional politicians Congress.

Since it is not likely that we can cut the size of government in the short term, I believe that a constitutional amendment for term limits is the only way we can get rid if the professionals and return to citizen members of Congress who have to earn a living some other way.

I think we could have an interesting running discussion on that subject.

Randy, I would tend to give the people more credit than that. I think the distinction depends on which people you are talking about. For purposes of discussion we could dismiss the extremes of the socio-economic spectrum and use the middle class aknowledging more are dropping than rising.

Speaking for myself, I look to the government for very little. I pay my taxes with the expectation that money will be used to perform the legitimate chores assigned the government by the Constitution or State Charter. I agree a certain measure of "social" programs are necessary to maintain a benevolent society but where does it end? What does a middle class person do when they find big business and special interests, of all sorts, have more control over how my elected representatives act than I do? Go vote? Then you find the voting system is structured to limit who can make it to the finals. In a nutshell, the whole game is rigged. I don't want the government to "give" me anything except an environment where I'm free to pursue life, liberty, and happiness. Anything other than that comes out of our collective pocket.

I also believe that the two party system has outlived its usefulnes. We need a variety of candidates, all equally funded by and limited to government funds. Equal opportunity elections will work to provide sincere people with integrity. We need to disband the two major parties. They are little more than power-hungry street gangs.

I can only surmise that this means you can't push your agenda via the two party system

ok
There are a few fringe parties every year.
You do not have enough "followers" to foist your agenda on the rest of us.

So what then, TI, set down and shut up while the two major parties "foist" their agenda? I think a growing number of citizens are disillusioned with what we are supposed to believe is representative government. I also think many elected officials are beginning to see those who do not favor one party or the other are a little more than a fringe group. In a way I suppose you are right, rejecting an agenda is an agenda in itself.

Here is the letter I sent mine about healthcare:
As one of God's children, I believe that protecting the health of each human being is a profoundly important personal and communal responsibility for people of faith.

I believe God created each person in the divine image to be spiritually and physically healthy. I feel the pain of sickness and disease in our broken world (Genesis 1:27, Romans 8:22).

I believe life and healing are core tenets of the Christian life. Christ's ministry included physical healing, and we are called to participate in God's new creation as instruments of healing and redemption (Matthew 4:23, Luke 9:1-6; Mark 7:32-35, Acts 10:38). Our nation should strive to ensure all people have access to life-giving treatments and care.

I believe, as taught by the Hebrew prophets and Jesus, that the measure of a society is seen in how it treats the most vulnerable. The current discussion about health-care reform is important for the United States to move toward a more just system of providing care to all people (Isaiah 1:16-17, Jeremiah 7:5-7, Matthew 25:31-45).

I believe that all people have a moral obligation to tell the truth. To serve the common good of our entire nation, all parties debating reform should tell the truth and refrain from distorting facts or using fear-based messaging (Leviticus 19:11; Ephesians 4:14-15, 25; Proverbs 6:16-19).

I believe that Christians should seek to bring health and well-being (shalom) to the society into which God has placed us, for a healthy society benefits all members (Jeremiah 29:7).

I believe in a time when all will live long and healthy lives, from infancy to old age (Isaiah 65:20), and "mourning and crying and pain will be no more" (Revelation 21:4). My heart breaks for my brothers and sisters who watch their loved ones suffer, or who suffer themselves, because they cannot afford a trip to the doctor. I stand with them in their suffering.

I believe health-care reform must rest on a foundation of values that affirm each and every life as a sacred gift from the Creator (Genesis 2:7).

Dexter, we differ. I believe that caring for the health of ourselves and our families is an individual responsibility, unless a person is not capable of caring for him/herself.

In those cases I agree with you about our Christian duty to help. I help at a free clinic for people without money or insurance.

But, I don't want any communal plan telling me or mine what kind of health care we are going to get and who else I have to pay for. There is no Christian charity in having your taxes confiscated so some politician can give them away in exchange for votes.

And, I've never seen any Christian love in any government program. They only have red tape.

Spencer, I'm no biblical scholar and do not refute your comments. We are our brother's keeper but in so doing is that a job for the government or the church in whatever form it takes? The health care industry needs a hard look. In my opinion, the government is responsible for policing this industry to prevent the fraud, excess, and waste that is being passed on to every consumer. That's where the reform needs to take place.

I agree with Rex... and randy, right wing Christians are not the only Christians in the this world,,,as a matter of fact,, they are a minority. The government is us,,,, and if you dont believe that, then you have already given away a good portion of your freedom

With regard to health care in another post I offered one possible solution pasted below. It's designed to simplify, simplify, simplify, something that doesn't have to be complicated with any ambiguous language.


"Tom Hunter has it just about right with the exception of some ambiguity in the language of the current Bill that could be a problem later. With abortions being perceived as no more than road kill by some people, the seniors among us are not far behind. They could be perceived as something that is no longer useful or needed.

Socialism is a backward solution for a people of limited thinking and abilities. A free people choosing to be less than free, in exchange for a quick unproved solution? Guess again, there are NO free rides. Wake up! With everything that has been happening, we will all be taxed through our proverbial noses while our freedoms continue whittling away.

For a very long time, many of our so called leaders (who were, and continue to be bought and paid for by special interests) turned an irresponsible blind eye to what has escalated into our current situation and serious challenges. The powers behind the current Health Care Bill are counting on us being in conflict with one another. They know that eventually they will get what they want because the people are unorganized without any real organization that can unite behind their best interests.

From an estimated over 12 million illegal’s and the poor putting a strain on the system - to escalating health care costs - to many others contributing to the problem, one thing is for sure, we need to find a solution. However, it’s in the language of any contract or Bill that needs the most scrutiny and attention to details. Any words that can be later interpreted beyond its original intent only play into the hands of those who have another agenda.

How many people will become the best doctors or nurses if they think a socialist like autocracy is going to determine their future. How many doctors do you think will leave the medical profession for a more free and lucrative life? It’s our freedoms that are the foundation of our greatness. Anything less will only exasperate one problem into another and another…

Does anyone really believe that our government should run any business? You can bet that a trillion dollars would end up many trillions more in no time at all. Their track record for handling money has proved to be not the most efficient. In fact, if they were a business they would have gone out of business a very long time ago. Unlike a real business the government can print more money and raise taxes to survive. Anything as important as health care should remain in trust of companies who understand and know it best, but with new provisos attached. They may not be as rich as they are now, but they will still exist.

To that end I offer one possible solution for your consideration:

1. Use the tax scale on all income to determine separately what each individual would pay for themselves and their dependents for health care. The poor would pay much less based on their ability to pay, and the rich would pay more. Employers would also contribute per employee. That money would be sent in with their tax return.

2. Employers will be required to withhold, report, and send to the government those health care dollars that would go into a special fund. No write-offs would be permitted for national health care insurance.

3. The fund would be immediately distributed to existing health care companies who would need to qualify under a strict policy.

4. A special congressional committee would be responsible to protect and serve the peoples best interests with the elected representatives answerable to their constituents.

In this way there is no socialism, our current system is not disrupted for yet another costly unknown, with a free people determining their own future. It all comes down to offering the best health care for everyone and that is the dollar and sense of it.

Our Democracy should never be compromised for anything less, and especially not from any false perceptions of the limited facts. We already have too much socialism in the guise of democracy. I would rather see more jobs created in the private sector for health care than feeding our already bloated bureaucracy.

The people need to get involved in their future. Don’t leave anything in the hands of the so called experts. Get involved while making a positive and meaningful difference."

em>Talking about abortion.... what about the thousands of babies who will each year because the mother didn’t have effective access to prenatal care and are lost ... Isn’t that abortion condoned by anti-health care people?

Dexter, that's a legitimate concern, but we don't need to change everyone's health care to address it.

Medicaid should be providing this service for the poor, but their pay to health care providers is so low (and their red tape is so high) that many doctors can't afford to be in the program.

Medicaid should be providing this service for the poor, but their pay to health care providers is so low (and their red tape is so high) that many doctors can't afford to be in the program.

Glad we got that settled. Now, let's just tax everyone enough to provide Medicaid for every American who needs it and to pay the doctors what they deserve. Everything will be fine then.

We only need to take the tax code back to where it was at the end of Reagans Administration to have more than enough money to privde everyone healthcare.... If reagan was soo good, then why isnt his tax code good enough? Becaseu its not about Taxes or health care, to conservatives its about rejudice and power...

It is so refreshing to read and find all the comments here thoughtful without the usual troll reprobates.

From an earlier post one possible beginning:

Mathew and Marilyn, and other concerned Gatherers, it's not so much that people don't care, but more that they are totally unorganized and missing the bigger picture.

Here on Gather if people actually did the following listed below, maybe we could empower OURSELVES instead of leaving our fate in the hands of our so-called leadership. I, like others have offered possible solutions to deaf ears and complacency that has proved to be a waste of time and effort.

To that meaningful end, we might consider the following:


1. Actually read other peoples good ideas here instead of just hearing ourselves talk.

2. Organize a citizens Gather group to actually make a difference. Two retired persons who have the time - one Conservative and one Liberal could organize and develop this Gather citizens' group.

3. All Gather members would select the best ideas in search of a solution instead of wasting our time on good ideas that only get lost in cyberspace.

4. Everyone votes narrowing down all the ideas to a final best three solutions.

5. Everybody debates the merits and perhaps fine-tune the final solution.

6. Everyone votes on what they think is the one best solution.

7. We send our final, and united choice to The White House.

Let's make ourselves heard by using the full power of the Internet and NOT leave our fate in the hands of special interest, antiquated thinking, and the serious consequences looming on the horizon. If we don't at least try, we will have no one to blame but ourselves.

Simon, your idea have merit. I would add just one thing.

The purpose of Gather is to exchange ideas so that we can all learn, not to lobby the government. But, if we focus on a piece of legislation and become better educated on the issues related that legislation, we all can be more effective in presenting our views to our representatives.

If someone in the group wants to summarize the discussion and send it to the White House or Congress, that's fine with me.

Randy, exchanging ideas that have nowhere to go for positive results becomes an exercise in futility. The purpose of any venue should never limit the possibilities. On an individual basis we are but a sound bite in an ocean of confusion. Together in large numbers we can make a significant difference.

Maybe, as I mentioned above, a retired person could create a group entitled "Solutions" populated by people who want their ideas to go beyond any self-inflected limitations.

Guess we all knew the special interest groups, lead by the US Chamber of Commerce and a large majority of pro-illegal worker organization, would try to upend the US Federal court order from applying E-Verify in September? If I had my way I, as a citizen would--BOYCOTT-- any company, store, factory, farm or manufacturing plant that didn't display an E-Verify notice in their working place? They certainly don't care one-iota for the American worker jobless or not? Both illegal immigration and health care are tied into the same knot and will have a hard time passing either. Immigration reform will be the battle of the century and all those politicians who sign up for it, are likely be signing up also for unemployment benefits.

This piece of potential immigration reform legislation, is not being fully advanced to the public and veiled until after enactment? Legislators have dug there immigration reform grave and must now suffer the consequences. Except they are looking for an easy avenue, to get out of the coffin they hammered in with their own nails. As with most civilized countries we are predisposed to treatment for any illegal alien in emergency hospitals. Except that these hospitals have become an open-house for any minor ailment to very expensive problems like dialysis?. In addition any public option, must have some stipulation in the bill that rejects illegal immigrants from gaining access. The problem is there is absolutely nothing in this health care bill containing any text to--CLOSE LOOPHOLES--that would disallow millions of illegal immigrants from participating?

Either way illegal Immigrants will get full access to THE PEOPLES health care, if the Democrats pass a path to citizenship or better known as BLANKET AMNESTY. The American people no longer believe in the propaganda that spills from the national press, about the illegal immigrant travesty, public health care from the mob in Washington? Perhaps we should look towards the single payer system that has succeeded in Europe? Instead of listening to the choking rhetoric from the special interest organizations that have erupted on radio and television. As for myself, I agree with a public option plan, but without the weight of paying for illegal immigrants and families as well.


They can yell from the hills that there is only 13 million foreign nationals and families occupying our soil, but that number has been programmed into us for about 10 years. Most bloggers estimate at least twenty million plus, with more appearing everyday and more on the way if a path to citizenship is forced through the Congress? How counterproductive can this be in passing health care treatment, when the teeming numbers already here pay nothing in the emergency room? Even the employers who hire them pay nothing, then slink away and leave the debt for taxpayers to pick up or the hospital to absorb? Even if it could be calculated the amount of money in government expenditures over decades, given to support these invaders, it would pay for the wars our politician subject us too? When are these pandering lawmakers going to work for all Americans and protect their jobs. Which they didn't establish in the original stimulus bills, but even then left a gaping loophole for illegal foreign workers to take advantage of?
We must assure that all American workers are gainfully employed, not individuals who have no right to be in our nation? It makes me sick to see veterans of Korea, Viet-Nam, the Gulf war walking the streets homeless, while illegal immigrants get gratification from employers and lawmakers. WE NO LONGER CAN SUPPORT ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS. OUR COUNTRY IS NEAR BANKRUPTCY. DEMAND E-VERIFY TO CHECK THE IMMIGRATION STATUS FOR EVERY US WORKER, BY CONTACTING YOUR LAWMAKER AT 202-224-3121. VOTERS SHOULD COMMAND NO MORE WEAKENING OF ANY LAWS INCLUDING 1986 (IRCA) IMMIGRATION CONTROL & REFORM ACT. JOIN NUMBERSUSA, JUDICIAL WATCH AND BE STUNNED HOW MILLIONS OF VOICES HAVE MADE AN INCREDULOUS DIFFERENCE.

Dave, correct on all counts. But, with one created problem more problems are not far behind.

1. For the last thirty years, our so called leadership turned a blind eye to illegal’s so that companies could capitalize on indigent slave labor. Companies are exporting jobs for the same reason. The argument being that they couldn’t find legal citizens to do the work. The truth is it’s all about profits and getting rich on the backs of people who have no voice.

2. Just think of all the immigrants who played by the rules and became citizens obeying the law of the land. If the law doesn’t apply to everyone it applies to no one.

3. Now with 13 to 20 million illegal’s the cost to extradite them would cost a fortune. Also, imagine how much that would cost in lost crops and the tax base.

It really comes down to being our fault by not getting involved and how we vote. We need to use the Internet more effectively and unite to make meaningful change. We can talk about important issues until we’re blue in the face or we can use the peoples’ Internet to make REAL change. The choice is ours. Isn’t it about time for us to unite instead of spewing out useless chatter that serves no purpose on the bigger stage?

Good post. Valid points placed here, purportedly for public consumption or may be for a debate. But I am not for a debate at all. For my part, I feel it odd to see parties and governments making merry-go-rounds, trying to appease public, doling out largesse that could get converted into votes. Doing everything that could get the people applaud the party in power. There is a Latin proverb “Apud caecorum, monoculus rex” (Among the blind, one-eyed man is king). Well, whether the proverb suits here or not, my only say is, a nation needs right-minded people to rule, not necessarily right-minded parties. Having witnessed a lot of merry-go-rounds of governments and politicians around here, I feel it proper to ask why we need political parties at all for forming a government. And if we at all depend on political parties, what advantage is achieved by merely changing parties, hoping from one end to the other without feeling the need to shoulder part of the responsibility, at least as a good citizen. Is it advisable for one to change party when something goes wrong rather than staying on and contribute our bit for the betterment of the people? Even rats escape a sinking ship. Are we capable of shouldering a responsibility, at least as a good citizen to see that the defective policies are transformed into beneficial ones? Or is changing party to suit our convenience the only solution to put in our bit for the betterment of a country?
I would once again repeat, the more the parties, so much the divisions, and with divisions come disagreements. From my personal point of view, what we need to search for is a group of right minded people, charismatic for that matter, who can deliver the goods.
Well, let me say once again, it is a very good post and demanding a lot of discussion for which time is short.

Yes Vinod, it's not about being a Democratic or Republican, etc., it's about electing a majority of Mr. Smith's and sending THEM to Washington. See above for more.

Why don't we start the government all over. Fire everyone. Start with Congress and work up.

Carol, it has already been said another way ...

"The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers". - Shakespeare (King Henry VI)

Wow. Lots of great conversation here... if I responded to everything I have thoughts about I'd be here all day. It's encouraging to see people think, discuss, and disagree even in some cases without name-callling and nastiness. I sure wish it could always be like that!

Lydia, it's a beautiful thing, isn't it?

Randy,
First, this is not a "real" letter.
It has circulated on gather at least a dozen times.
It was originated by one of the conservative think tanks, Heartland I think, sent out to their mailing list to be circulated to all the anti Democrat believers


Phony and dishonest.

Today's, nice try. See -

http://www.glennbeck.com/content/articles/article/196/26808/

Thank you for sharing this ---PIF

Today's Illusion attacked the letter from an Arizona woman as "Phony and dishonest." He probably got the information from some far left website.

Well, Glenn Beck interviewed the woman on his radio show on June 18, 2009, the day after he read the letter. Her name is Janet Contreras, and you can read the transcript at -

http://www.glennbeck.com/content/articles/article/196/26808/

Unfortunately, for some people Randy, unless your souce is thier source it's phony and dishonest. Anyone on the right/conservative side needs a thinktank to have an idea or opinion. These things are inherent or come out of the ether if you are on the left.