You've heard the Republicans talk against universal healthcare and you've heard the Democrats defend it and say it's the only way to go. What do those have to say who live in a country which has universal healthcare? Here is a letter from a Canadian friend of mine:
I watched part of a Republican debate the other night where several
of the candidates took turns referring to our medical system here in
Canada, trying to scare people about Loooong wait times.
I thought, "What baloney!". Of course unless you have direct
experience of it, you don't know what to believe.
There is pretty close to zero waiting time to get to see a doctor,
unless you show up at emergency just after the victims of a bus
crash. However, if you show up with a headache, the person bleeding
or with a broken leg will be ahead of you. If I think back over 30
years, I recall waiting an hour or so late on a busy night. My own
doctor works in a busy clinic and I usually show up without an
appointment (I'm not a good patient) and I expect to wait an hour or
maybe two. When I have an appointment, it's usually the other folks
who are waiting.
We have teams of people who schedule surgeries and such, based on
information they get from doctors. They consider the effects on your
long-term health and the degree of urgency based on your condition,
but also on things like your occupation.
For example, if I am a carpenter with a bad elbow, I will likely get
in ahead of a pensioner with a bad elbow, because I need my arm to
pound nails and make a living. I'm sure this pees some wealthy
pensioners off, because they'd like to buy their way to the head of
the queue, but try to sell that to the carpenter's wife and kids.
When they get their call, the cost is - nada, but of course we do pay
somewhat higher taxes.
The horror stories that are quoted are a tiny percentage of cases
where people are dropped to the bottom of the queue for a variety of
reasons. It could be that you had a doctor who didn't think you were
an urgent case, so didn't make a good case for you. Some people don't
bother seeing a doctor on a regular basis, so they don't have a
relationship with one. (Unlike the HMO system, you can see any doctor
you want, anytime, if they will see you.) If your doc didn't think
you were urgent, then you won't be scheduled accordingly!
Many cases I have heard about long wait times were from people who
were in the queue, but when they were called, turned it down because
It wasn't at their favorite hospital, or because they were booked for
a holiday in Hawaii. (You will be booked at the first hospital that
has an available operating room and staff. )Then they go down to the
bottom of the queue, and then they end up complaining about the long
wait time. If their doctor had them marked as 'urgent', they may have
been reviewed about that as well. I heard of somebody that was called
for surgery about 3-4 days after she saw her doctor - she thought the
hospital was too far away from home, so she declined - then
complained that she had to wait two months! The fact is, the
hospitals near her were too busy, the one more distant was available
- and the doctor doing the work was the same person!
When I was diagnosed with an infected gallbladder, my wait for
surgery was two days, one of them spent in hospital.
Just some facts:
Studies, some done by Harvard Medical School, show that patient
recovery outcomes are 20% better in Canada, while total medical care
costs are 50% less. Much of that comes from savings due to bulk
purchasing of supplies and drugs, not just from the elimination of
profits from the chain. Many of the services are provided by private
firms (lab testing, X-rays, etc.) but it is tendered annually by the
regional healthcare boards, who run groups of hospitals centred
around major cities. The Saskatoon Health Region runs hospitals in
the city and surrounding towns to a radius of about 100 miles.
Drugstores are entirely private, but they obtain drugs from a
centralized purchasing agency which tenders to the drug companies
annually.
Most Canadians cannot understand why Americans put up with not only
the expense of your medical system, but the lies that are told about
it. Even Democrats cannot tell the truth because it will hurt their
credibility. My experience here is the Michael Moore is telling the
truth, although he has only a small sample to base it on - of course
it doesn't always go as rosy as he painted it.
Rev. Darrell Gudmundson -Staff Minister
Centre for Positive Living, Saskatoon
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Comments: 45
The American public really needs to hear the true story. They heard a lot of truth in the movie "Sicko", but there again the messanger, Michael Moore, was ridiculed and shot by the right-wing pundits and the corporate cheerleaders and the sheep that soak up their every word bought it all and parroted their lies. Hearing these types of stories from the actual beneficiaries of the system is critical to getting the real truth out to the American public.
This is exactly what we needed to know - rather than what the politicians decide to tell us.... I see positives and negatives in the letter but even the negatives are better than our current system.
Thank you again!
For about a year, 2 of my roommates were English. They cpmpared UK care with Spanish and both programs came uo smelling far rosier than the US. Again, no waits. Another friend and her husband, both Spanish, had been studying in a tiny Bible college in England for 3 years; their daughter was born during that time. Even though they were not working and got all their money from family in Spain, they received full health care as well, as did their baby.
I have heard the Danish system is even better than the UK and Spanish systems.
The naysayers and their kneejerk acolytes here love to collect the rare bad stories that are either really not bad, as the ones you cite, or are simple cases of typical human error as happens no matter what the system. The kneejerk reaction non-thinkers of both parties are clueless and ought to be silenced! WE NEED NIVERSAL HEALTH CARE EQUAL FOR ALL CITIZENS AND *LEGAL-ONLY* IMMIGRANTS REGARDLESS OF EMPLOYMENT OR INCOME!!! The fools with something to protect and their chorus of acolytes must no longer be believed for the liars they are!!!
Nice. It's always good to hear another point of view. I'm less surprised to see that people tolerate the misinformation these days. Brilliant marketing by an industry out to preserve their profits at the cost of suffering and death.
I DO find it interesting that the horror stories tend to be Canadian health horror stories . . . even though there are 36 countries currently covering EVERY citizen and doing it for less money than we in the US pay now . . . to leave millions uninsured and even more underinsured. How anyone can take the comment of a single person's experience and equate that to an entire system shows a massive simplification and is, clearly, an attempt to spread disinformation.
Profit must leave the industry . . . like it did for other life-needed services . . . like law and fire protection. ...And it absolutely will . . . either before or after this nation is bankrupt financially as well as ethically.
Regards,
Doyle I <~~~~~
Amazing.
Thank you and please thank your friend for spreading the truth!
The problem is, even if you ARE adequately insured you are at the mercy of profit. Here's a link to an Article I wrote about a young, 17 yr. old lady. She WAS covered . . . but Cigna denied what her Doctor told her was the ONLY way she could live, a liver transplant. Why? Because even though they knew they would lose the appeal . . . they also knew she would die first. After a storm of publicity, they relented . . . and she died minutes later.
Cha-CHING ! ! ! ! They saved a LOT of money.
Regards,
Doyle I <~~~~~
That will take the poor away from the ER which is now their only option, which is also a very costly option. And preventative medicine would then be available for them.
Competition would show up in those Health Care insurance companies and over time will get better as the public will gravitate to the better and go away from the more worse companies.
Those that want Health care would be able to buy it at all levels, and those that couldn't afford it will get help from the States as the States are more aware of the needs of their people, than the Fed.
And those that don't want any health care don't need to bother with getting it.
Richard, I think that you're out of touch with what is happening in the U.S. Perhaps you're well covered under a company plan, or maybe you're under Medicare. My husband and I have a health insurance policy with a $5,000 deductible, which is all we could afford. For many years, we could not get insurance because of a "prior existing condition".
There are 50 million people in the U.S. who do not have insurance, either because they can't afford it or because they can't get the insurance companies to cover them because of their health. How many of those do you think don't want it? None, I would bet. In addition to those that don't have coverage are those that face constant battles with the insurance company just to get something paid for. I worked in benefits for a number of years and it is like. Every time an insurance company pays out a benefit it eats into their profits. And, the insurance companies have figured out that, if you wait long enough and prolong the fight, the patient will often die.
And the COBRA law did not Control Cost so the ins. company can set rules and cost that price portable insurance right out for single/divorced mothers with several kids. My daughter paid $975 every month for 18 months to stay covered because of her chronic illness. Sometimes I had to buy food for her or pay rent so she could do that because if she ever lost it, she would never be covered again and she was the breadwinner with three children. The ins. company required her to keep the full coverage, long and short term disability etc and even life insurance, to be insured. They had her over a barrel and they knew it.
Insurance, health care, and untilities should not be for profit. Non-profit status would lower or negate their corporate taxes and fair wages could be paid for all employees and officers. It would also return the focus of such corporations to giving service for fees charged rather than skimping on service to funnel all profits to stockholders. Why are Americans not ASHAMED to profit so greatly from the illness and misfortune of others? Because they are corporations, not humans; they have no morals, no values, and no integrity. But boy, do they have greed.
I don't want to wait for good fair health care until "the market" another entity with no feelings, gets around to improving my health care. That is simply for the highest bidder. Corporations had they chance and they are letting us DIE because it's profitable. So now, let the government take a stab at it. They couldn't do worse and they might do better.
Carla thank you so much for what you have shared here. I'm sending a link to many of my friends and associates.
That's likely the most rediculous thing I've heard yet. Using a single-payer Universal healthcare would allow MASSIVE savings, cover every single citizen and SAVE MONEY.
But we only have 36 other industrialized nations to look at for examples of how to do it better because, contrary to the HYPE, we are certainly not "The Best in the World"! We're 37th . . . oh . . . we're best when it comes to COSTS . . . there we lead . . . and while infant mortality climbs to unethical, immorally high levels and millions suffer because they cannot afford healthcare (some until it's absurdly expensive AND doomed to fail . . . costing them their lives) . . . we have people AGAINST saving money and lives and supporting continuing these insurance profits rolling in at up to 30% costs.
Brilliant idea. Profit MUST be removed from this system. It's actually a done deal . . . just a matter of time and a choice between doing it before or after the country is bankrupt.
Regards,
Doyle I <~~~~~
Your plan simply protects outrageous profits for pharmacutical, insurance, and health care mega corporations and in addition throws all those who can't pay the outrageous premiums into a "welfare" program, subject to the whims of the party in office. If that be Republicans, then those people will be cut back, excluded from the program, capped out of the program etc as has been going on for the past eight years.
Bush pulled Rx drugs for all Medicaid participants into the MediCARE program in order to over burden it and do away with it entirely but it didn't work. Regular old Medicare still costs less than the Advantage Managed Care programs he added to the single payer plan that has worked so well. Privatization of Medicare is doom for those depending on it.
I also reminded you that states do not pay 100% of Medicaid programs, they pay 1/3 to 1/2 only and would break if they had to pay more at these prices.
Where has the surplus funds Clinton left in the US treasury disappeared to? the coffers of private corporations.
I also was the one that installed the first automated medical record, and prescription writer system that proved it was cost affective, which was also written up in JAMA around 1984 or so.
I also wrote 10 to 15 papers to the Clinton, Gore administration about what needed to do about health care.
There is no secret about what I've done in the past at all, and where I stand on this issue.
I'm with you on that . . . both parties have sold out the people. Edwards and Kucinich might have a say or two . . . but it doesn't look likely this election cycle. Pressure must be applied to CONgress to get meaningful reform.
"Here the health care goes to people who aren't even supposed to be here in the first place ..."
Oh really? What human being should be denied health care? Just curious. I'm guessing the brown kind that come north of their country's border after being lured by work.offers . . . illegally hire by business owners who save money and face no prosecution . . . is that it? Let 'em die. While you're callously writing off people . . . you might want to consider the fact that it's not illegal immigration that makes millions of citizens live without insurance . . . it's greed. And immigration doesn't make this country the number one expensive nation for medical care . . . nor does it explain the skyrocketing infant mortality rate . . . but what the hey! Blame the Mexicans, eh? That'll help!
Regards,
Doyle I <~~~~~
Kaiser Permanente is a not for profit org, as are the Catholic Charities. There are no stock options and the law is such that they can't make a great profit.
There is a great need for more Health Care Insurance and Hospital organizations in the US that are like these.
However, if the US Government were the Health Care provider that ability to disagree and to sue the government may be lost when errors in the practice of medicine show up. As this practice of medicine is done by people, and as people do indeed make mistakes in this practice and in judgement there will still be errors made in medicine even if the government is in charge. But if the government is indeed in charge the right to sue may just be lost then, as it is very difficult to sue the government.
By the way I also feel, even tho the government most do this job, as no one else is doing it, the Public Health department needs to service parts of rural America with hospitals and medical offices. That purpose would be to provide medical and surgical services when nothing else is available for hundreds of miles around, as it is not economically feasible for anyone else to do so.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/08/us/08grady.html?
The value or the US dollar is fast sinking and a lot of hospitals are in dire financial straights. The Medicaid program also needs to reimburse the hospitals at full cost.
Why can't the government, that you desire to provide all the medical care, do that small financial job and cover the medical costs for Medicaid at this time?
Who is proposing the government be the "provider" of health care? I'm certainly not and I don't know of anyone who is. What most of us want is for the government to act as a non profit insurance company to provide the payment for health care only. I believe we have very good providers, it just the access to those providers because of cost that is the issue!
How about this: we get rid of the Federal Reserve, and stop charging our citizens interest on the right to own paper (fiat currency) and will thus save our country from the grips of Bank lead Tyranny...then we can start to wake up.
Next thing we know we will pull ALL the troops back home, enjoy a military decline and then focus on health care. But wait that sounds like Ron Paul's platform, hummm.
http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/ WATCH IT AND WAKE UP!
It is my opinion that John Edwards is the best candidate to straighten things out.
I am really sorry I missed this discussion when it happened!
As a Registered Nurse who grew up, trained and worked in Canada for the first 30 years of my life and who now lives and works in the U.S. health care system I have experienced both systems. The Canadian system at a time when many ex- pat Canadian physicians claimed it was at it's worst and the U.S. system as it currently stands. My verdict is: The U.S. health care system is pathetic, it helps only those with lot$ of $$ and is not a Health Care system as much as it is a disease treatment system!
True Health Care includes Health maintenance and prevention as it's primary focus NOT "how do we pay as little for care as we can while still claiming to be a health insurance plan?".
I have dealt with both private insurance plans and Medicare/ Medicaid as a healthcare provider. I see the difference in their approaches to care on a daily basis!
As a health care consumer I suffer under the weight of large health care costs not covered by my supposed health insurance...
Recently I've had to stop taking one of my meds because my insurance will no longer pay the co-pay for a Brand name drug because there is a generic available. My MD is opposed to using the generic version of this particular drug, even though she prescribes generics for all my other meds that have a generic equivalent out there...
I am also being forced to pay twice the copay for my Lipitor as I did a month ago.
It has gone from being an 'On formulary' Brand name to an 'Off Formulary' Brand name.
Itr appears that BC BS wants me to change to Zocor which has a generic equivalent.
Due to allergy issues I need to be on Lipitor not Zocor but the BCBS insurance folk don't care and won't work with us... so much for health insurance! Oh then there's the $3000 deductible AND the 30% co pay for hospital care, lab and radiology exams etc. etc. 2 nights and 3 days in hospital, two out patient CT scans and an outpatient surgical procedure have sent me over the cliff into debt hell!
And the cycle starts all over again each calendar year with the deductible starting from scratch!
... as you can tell I can go on forever on this subject!