witchcraft in cemeteries

To my knowledge, the symbol that is used on Wiccan graves is the pentacle - a symbol (as anyone who read "The DaVinci Code" would know) that is both ancient and related primarily to nature and its divine balance.

If a cross, star of david, or other religious symbol (see link of authorized emblems in Arlington National cemetery below) may be placed on a grave marker, why should a pentacle cause a fuss? Or would an image of a Wiccan being burned at the stake make people who spook easily feel more comfortable? ;)

http://www.homeofheroes.com/gravesites/arlington/0_arlington_emblems.html

Since I am a pagan I have several penacles. Even though it is now used used for a symbol by the wiccans it is an old pagan symbol. Paganism predates most other religions. I say go for and whoever doesnt like it doesnt have to look.

And pagans, wiccans and witches are not all the same. Some pagans are witches but not all same for wiccans.

I wonder if the right wingers are grabbing their smelling salts right now and harrumphing about this being a sign of the End Times?

Peter you can pretty much bet on it. Good article.

When ever I've seen pictures of those national cemeteries I've just seen the endless rows of uniform crosses. If America has "freedom of religion" I wonder why this Wicca symbol wasn't allowed before, and what does an atheist get on his/her tombstone ... a fish with legs???

Does anybody know what a Buddhist or Hindu gets?

Interesting observation Peter. I have seen one confirmed atheist grave she had a heart with her kids names in it. It was pretty. There is freedom of religion in America....as long as that religion is christianity.

Funny! Good point. I believe that everyone should have the freedom to worship and believe as they want. I also think there's so much out there in the universe and collective mind that we don't know or can ever begin to understand. We're pretty small, yet so big for our britches when we think that we have the "right" to push our beliefs on someone else, or tell them they're wrong. More love... for ourselves, and respect for others is needed today. Just my personal thought. Personally I love to see the diversity of symbols on a tombstone....and imagine the life that was led.

Cute, Peter...Very cute.

Lumping all US right-wingers together. Pretty broad brush you're using there.

Frankly, I doubt God cares which symbol is on your tombstone. He knows what's in your heart.

Lori, dear one, really...you don't believe that 'freedom of religion' is saved for the Christians, do you?

In this day and age, I'd say the Christians are the ones being persecuted in this country. AND, some of them rightly so!!

Huge gap exists between faiths - of all kinds - and religion.

There's plenty pf persecution anyway you slice it. If someone feels threatened by another or their beliefs, they too often lash out or at least denigrate the other. This is why we have war. People won't behave themselves an like to stomp on each other's toes. Aggression.

I wonder how Christians are being persecuted? Congress says prayers. The President can speak of faith. The radio and TV has religious stations. The churches seem to be doing pretty well and the holidays still close banks. Your tombstone can have a cross.

I want a smiley face on mine.

- a smiley face like you bought it at Walmart? Maybe Walmart could start selling coffins and tombstones and things like that in one isle . It's all so WAY over priced, otherwise. When is capitalism going to save us from the funeral home industry?

OK, then how about those capitalists who worship money? I think a dollar sign on the tombstone would be a nice touch.

Chandra me bad....I am ashamed.

Carl your icon is disturbing on so many levels. How can I get one like that?

"Don't you think a traditional "Witchcraft image" in some place like a "cemetery" might be too much for lots of Christian types (and people that spook easily, in general)?"

they don't have the right to dictate what other religious symbols are appropriate..especially in a national cemetary..

I think it's time for people to do what they want regarding their own tombstone. It's not meant to offend, but to define a person's life......so do one should do what they want, finally. Without fear of .........anymore...........j

What I want on my tombstone is that I lived, loved, and was happy to the end. And looking forward to what awaits me next. Isn't that all we can hope for?

I want sausage and cheese on my tombstone.

By a Wiccan symbol being allowed do you mean just delimited to tombstones or do you mean in other contexts? God gives everyone freedom of choice and nothing shocks Him. Even in the book of Ecclesiastes, the wisest man who ever lived, King Solomon, cried out "There's nothing new under the sun." God knows what is in a man's heart better than a man knows himself. He is above all, in all and through all. If someone chooses to put a Wiccan symbol on a deceased loved one's tombstone, God is not going to stand in their way.

Much of what we blame God for, we ourselves are to blame for. All kinds of groups make God look bad. Not just the Catholic Crusaders (and I've never been much for Catholicism) but also the Muslim extremists who want to kill everyone who doesn't believe as they do. God is not Catholic, Muslim, Wiccan, New Age, Buddhist, Hindu or any kind of religious sect or denominational box man would seek to put Him in. God is outside of time and space and is not of this realm.

God said, "I Am Who I Am" meaning that He needs no formal introduction. Nor does He need to provide qualifications or references. He created us. Deep down inside we all know we did not create ourselves and that not any one of us who ever lived created what we see around us...the vast universe or even the blip on the horizon of a galaxy we live in.

Even though we all know it deep down inside, however, some of us choose to deny it or try to explain it away by some other means because we would rather, for whatever reason (and some of them very good reasons, for those of us who had parents who sinned against us greatly) hang on to our desperately marred ideas of who God is and what He is all about than believe in a God who is personal and who actually gives a care.

Yet, whether you do or don't believe in Him, He leaves alot of stuff up to us. He leaves it up to us if we want to believe what He says about Himself in a book He had people write about Him once upon a time (of which some versions are more accurate and inerrant than others). And... He leaves other things up to us as well. He weeps when we don't do what is right and refuse to believe He is good and for us and not against us.

But we hurt ourselves even more when we do things that are in keeping with symbols, practices, religions and lifestyles that He makes clear are not of Him. He allows us to suffer the consequences for our actions when we go against what He tells us is not good for us or in our best interests. He even allowed His own chosen people, the Israelites suffer when they didn't trust He knew what was best for them.

For those of us unfortunates who had parents who didn't do what is best for us, we have a very hard time believing there could be such a thing as a God who knows what's best for us. In fact, we scoff, balk or maybe even wretch at the very idea of it, thinking it's too good to be true. Yet that doesn't change the fact that it IS true and that we are the ones missing out. I know what I'm saying will not be well-received, but I have never been a member of any kind of "mutual admiration society" so that is why, truly, I'm not afraid to say it.

Joli that is a very good comment.

It's true that most religions, faiths, denominations, insert word of choice here: ______ *including* Christians outside of Catholicism have blood on their hands (remember the Thirty Years War?) Sorry, but it's true and what I was referring to in an earlier comment about persecution being everywhere, even among Christians toward one another, I am ashamed to say, which is why I left evangelicalism: rabid hatred of Catholics without apology. Seemed inconsistent with the teachings of the one they said they followed. In any case, my parish priest said to me a few weeks ago: "Religion is MAN-MADE. Spirituality is from God." Humans love to impose rules and regulations and Jesus had some harsh words for these which he called "a brood of vipers." He said that their rules and regulations were burdens made to keep people away from God, and in doing so, they kept themselves away form God, as well. Seems fair to me.

I feel like everyone should enjoy and practice their faith the way they want to, and if they have a symbol that means something to them, they should be able to express themselves even on grave stones. Some people like the Christian cross for a necklace, but I don't' personally like it, because it is a symbol of death to me, and Jesus is no longer on the cross he is alive to me. For me it would be like wearing an electric chair around my neck in this day in time.

but to each his or her own. I support anyone's right to their practice and worship of their faith.

ty for sharing

Charlene, that remark about the electric chair cracked me up 25 years ago and it still does, after reading what you wrote. I just took a study which went into the cross, in detail. I highly recommend it, it will heighten your appreciation if you are a Christian.

excellent thread and good point Mary P.

Finally (I've said everything else, but) what people put on their headstone is their business.

The encouraging point is that the national cemetary allowed it, and rightly so.

I just wanted to stop back and thank Debra for the links to the pentagram. I didnt get to them until today but they were very good.

I think there are some of all Religions that go to Heaven. All forms of Religion seem to mimic each other in one way or another to the way back when. It is a set of laws, the commandments and if you just don't get it you can go to Church. You do onto others, live your life and don't look back. But remember for every sin you will pay 10 times. God sees the truth and waits. I think that the Wicca symbol in a cemetery is ok as long as they don't desecrate a grave. I also think the power of witch craft cannot change any thing in the afterlife if it did it would bring to life and death new meanings and tribulations.

I think Chandra was right in her statement "Frankly, I doubt God cares which symbol is on your tombstone. He knows what's in your heart." Symbols on a tombstone are merely that, they are symbols and until meaning is put behind them they are just images. This country is based on freedom of religion and freedom of choice so I see no problem in what is on a tombstone as long as individual feelings and honesty are in the mix when chosing the tombstone.

Some pretty intense insights here. I believe in freedom of religion. Let them put what they want on their tombstones. If I (or anyone else doesn't like it) then we don't have to look at it. Just don't tell me what to put on my tombstone.

By the way, I am a Catholic and intend to have a cross on my grave.

I just hope everyone remembers your tombstone is you last impression, the thing you will be remembered by for eternity.

ps, loved the sausage and cheese comment.

No more so than a Star of David or Cross should be, really. I'm grateful that they have finally recognised the religious preference of those who have fallen and cannot specify their wishes in person. Personally, I've never understood why cemetaries are considered "spooky". I spent a good deal of my time there as a teen reading or soaking up sunshine in the solitude. There is no more peaceful or "safe" place in my opinion.

..
U

Who are we, the created, to tell God whom to love? Too many under the banner of one religion or another has acted like the symbols are more important than God's love and in doing so we fall into great sin ourselves as we condemn others.

No gravestone for me personally, but everyone has a right to what they want....good stuff here as always.

My feelings on the matter are that people have free will and are not only personally accountable for but able to live there lives the way they choose.
A person should have the freedom to place whatever they like on their grave stone. It is a mere reflection of their dedications from their life here on earth.
Each person has their own beliefs about the after life and the important matter is that each person live their lives in such a way that they are comfortable in passing into the next without fear.