Gather at the Movies: Exclusive Interview with Michael Apted, Director of "Amazing Grace"

The Gather Editorial Team had the pleasure of interviewing acclaimed director Michael Apted about his experiences directing the soon-to-be released film "Amazing Grace," and much more.  "Amazing Grace" will open in movie theaters across the U.S. on February 23^rd.  It is the story of William Wilberforce, a young man and member of Parliament who takes on the British establishment to abolish slavery in the British Empire during the late 18^th century. The film focuses on Wilberforce's inner struggles between pursuing a religious life or a political career that could make an impact on the world he inhabits.  The ensemble cast includes Ioan Gruffudd, Albert Finney, Rufus Sewell, Michael Gambon, Romola Garai, and Youssou N'Dour.

Mr. Apted has directed such films as "Coal Miner's Daughter," "Enigma," and "The World Is Not Enough" as well as episodes of the epic mini series "Rome." He is the President of the Director's Guild of America.

You have directed a number of historical films, such as "Enigma" and the "Rome" series-do you approach an historically themed story differently from a contemporary one? How did those experiences influence "Amazing Grace"?

Well I try not to, I mean I always look for what's relevant about it, what would appeal to an audience. Otherwise I think if you just treat it as an artifact, as history, then it sort of takes the air out it, the life out of it. And without hitting audiences over the head you want to give them something that relates to their own lives and relates to their own emotions or the world that they live in. To give it some meaning, otherwise it's just like looking at a dead thing, as it were.

[In the film's production notes] you mention that you wanted to portray Wilberforce and Pitt like the Kennedy's of their generation-young men holding a lot of political power, who were battling the ideas of an older generation. Is there a contemporary message contained in that portrayal?

I think there's an internal message. I think it's a generational thing. If the film gives inspiration to young people to involve themselves in politics or involve themselves in issues but it's also to say this is something you have to be in for the long haul, it's not just something you can dabble in. But I'd say it's more appeasing and heroic when you see young people taking on the establishment and winning; that was an area I particularly wanted to beef up, particularly when I  cast it, I wanted the people who played the leads-Wilberforce and Pitt and Mrs. Wilberforce-clearly a good deal younger than the people playing the establishment. So, it's kind of hard to find the young actors who would have the chops to play such huge parts. That was a challenge and I think we did that.

Right and what surprised me was that the film takes place over such a long period of time, you really see that they age and the task takes its toll on the characters, and I was wondering about the challenges in portraying that.

Yes, it was very challenging in a technical way. Films are shot all over the place so you know all different bits here and there and you've got those two parallel universes-one of time present and one of cherry picking in the past-it meant we had to really nail down exactly the different periods in his life and the different looks of his life and of all the characters. That was a hefty challenge because it wasn't a very expensive film, and we didn't have a huge amount of time to do it and we had to get on with it. We had to deal with things like the British weather and horses and costumes and all that but the make up to be all accurate and consistent and not to make any horrible mistakes while we were plowing through the schedule, it was really challenging. And to make it look as though people didn't just have things stuck on or plastered on them or whatever. So it was very, very difficult.

How long was the shoot?

46, 47 days. For that kind of film it was really quite a rush.

Wilberforce's inner struggles were a motivating factor in his decision to pursue politics instead of religion.  What direction did you give Ioan to help him capture this inner turmoil?

I think that was really the greatness of the character that I wanted to impress on him. And it's so resonant of today where religion becomes politics-very polarized and that's the sort of catastrophic world that we're creating. And that's what's very interesting to me, was a man who could do both, who could have his religion and live by that religion and not compromise it and have the will and the appetite and the skill to operate in the political arena. There aren't many people like that in our life time. It's Martin Luther King and Gandhi and Nelson Mandela, and it's not many people that manage that and it's an interesting template of politics today. To me, that was a central issue in his life-that's what I wanted to convey, that he wasn't overbearing about his religion, that he didn't simply get on a pulpit and yell at everybody who didn't agree with him as though they were beneath him. There's a real compassion about the character along with political skill.

To get a better idea of the scope of Wilberforce's struggle to abolish slavery, what would be an example of a modern day equivalent?

Well, I mean, I suppose almost anything if you're taking up social issues of poverty, of race, the bright shining light that was shown on the urban culture by Katrina in New Orleans, you know to see how we really live. And if you're interested in that sort of huge dislocation between the rich and the poor in America, if you're interested in trying to get a balance of all the international political issues of wars and into social reform, and we're at great pains, not the film, but the company that made the film to address social issues including slavery, which is probably more common now than it was in Wilberforce's time. So I think there are plenty of social issues that people should be paying attention to, should have their interest drawn to, and need the kind of commitment that Wilberforce gave. It's just an endless struggle. It's never over. Slavery is never over, you know; class wars is never over, unfairness, economic unfairness and unbalance is never over and these are just issues that just scream out for attention, much more than they're getting now.

On a lighter note, What does it take to assemble such a talented ensemble cast? Was it a struggle or did it fall into place naturally?

It did fall into place actually. Normally, it's such a terrific struggle. But I think the script is for British actors a great piece of history, and all the names in it, like Charles Fox and Thomas Clarkson and that sort of stuff. I mean, I've spent my whole life trying to work with Albert Finney and then I sent him this script, like a 3 day roll, and he says "I'll do it." He doesn't even think about it. And that he balanced his very tight schedule with "The Good Shepherd" and made himself available to come to me was very heartwarming. So, in some ways this is one of the easiest films I've ever had to cast because people really seemed to respond to it.

And it was an entirely British cast, is that correct?

Yes, that was my intent. It's a British story and I shot it in Great Britain with a British crew, and I wanted a British cast because it is a heroic story and it did have an effect, eventually all over the world, on the issue of African slavery, and I didn't want to compromise it unless I absolutely had to. Although it's an American company, American money as usual and it's not British money--we have a very kind of, odd film industry-you know, I did want to keep its roots, as it were, authentic.

What were the challenges of directing a movie with such strong religious themes? It's a fairly touchy subject.

It's very difficult for me. My central agenda really was to try and keep that balanced, not turn it into an evangelical film. Although I didn't want to demean the importance of his beliefs,  it's a modern issue. It was a day to day issue with me and all the way through post-production to walk that tightrope and not fall one way or other off the tightrope. I think that would have ruined the film. So for me it was a constant issue. Constant.

Does directing follow you into other aspects of your life? I'm sure you work overtime...

I suppose my life is my work. My other interest is the Guild, the Director's Guild, I'm in my second term as president of that. So there's a link between that and my directing; but my other interests--you know in family and sport, and whatever--I don't think that directing crosses into that. I hope I don't direct my family.

How would you describe your relationship with your actors on set? Mentor? Friend?

I like that. I don't think it differs from project to project and though different actors need different attention, my attitude to actors is to be nurturing and to give them a safe place. If they need encouragement, to give it to them; if they need a kick up the backside, to give it to them; but generally it's to address their issues. I've always felt that that's the key to a good film, is to have a terrific script or a terrific crew but if the people who actually give life, flesh and blood, are wrongly cast or aren't up to it then the film's dead in the water. So I do rehearsal period so we all begin to know each other, see what works for some actors what doesn't work for other actors. And I really admire them too. I think it's a hell of a job they have to do. To have their face sixty feet up, blown up on a cinema screen requires courage. So I think that my relationship with my actors stems from the fact that I do really value what they do.

Was there a culminating point in your career where you thought "I've made it!"?

I don't know whether you've ever ‘made it.' There's never a moment when you think ‘okay, I can now sit here, I can do whatever I want, I'm in a position to do..." I don't think I've ever got to that stage. Where I'm financially thinking I wouldn't have to work again if I don't want to, and creatively I don't think I'm in a position to do whatever I want. Everything is a struggle to put a cast together.. But after "Coal Miner's Daughter" I was able to build myself a little base here. For an English director you have to build a little bridgehead in America if you want to have a career in America or a career with American films. And I felt I was lucky with my first American film, that it gave me some solid ground to build my career here on. 

When you first wanted to be a director, what were the reactions of your friends and family? Did they think, "You're crazy. You'll never make it"?

I fell in love with movies when I was 16 and that was what I wanted to do. And I didn't go out parading this because I didn't think there was ever a chance for me to do it, I had no contacts, no inroads into the community, so it certainly wasn't anything I would go around saying with any kind of passion or belief because I didn't think it could happen. And it was only when I left university and got a job in television it became even a vague possibility. You know my parents thought I was crazy, my parents were very upset about it when I got my first job they were mortified. They wanted me to be a lawyer and so I got a law degree and it was their idea of... It really took them about 10 years to figure out that this was a proper job.

Do you feel compelled to direct slightly loftier material every now and then. I know that you are politically minded and have an interest in politics and social reform.

I like to do stuff that I can get my teeth into, something that's going to be challenging to me and an audience. You know, I do my share of popcorn and of stuff that's more easily exploitable but if I can get the money for it and I think I can do it well, then I do like to do things, and hopefully in a reasonably entertaining way, that takes people where they haven't been before and maybe challenge them with ideas that they haven't necessarily thought of. It's hard work and it's frustrating, and times like this now, with you and all the press we're doing, it's very important to see whether we can attract an audience into it. Because you run the risk of not being able to get an audience or else no one goes to see it, despite all this work you've put into it.  So I do like those challenges but it is pretty nerve-wracking, especially at this time.

You have directed historical dramas, biopics, and action films.  Is there any area or genre that is unconquered for you?

 Well I've tried, sort of unsuccessfully, to do comedy. So we might pass a veil over that, but I don't have an interest to do computer films or comic book films, which are hugely successful. I mean I enjoyed doing the Bond film but that wasn't quite the sort of film that I'm talking about. I don't have an appetite for green screen work and stuff like that.

You mentioned that you had always wanted to work with Albert Finney and that you were able to do this with Amazing Grace. Are there any other actors that you'd like to work with?

"Oh, I'm sure. Hundreds of them, maybe. I can't even begin to think of that. It's just with Albert, I mean I'd been trying, I actually sent him stuff over the years but never got anywhere with it. It was just, sort of a great relief and a reward really, after all my trying, to get him for this. I'd love to try and work with Meryl Streep or Robert DeNiro ... Just thinking of the people in New York, like Al Pacino, so there's a ton of people I'd love to work with."

Michael, we thank you very much for taking the time to talk to us. Our members are really going to love hearing from you about your experiences in the making of this movie.

Absolutely. My pleasure.

To read more about the making of this movie, check out About the Production of Amazing Grace.

You can also find Gather's exclusive interview with Ioan Gruffudd in the Amazing Grace group later this month! To join the Amazing Grace discussion group, click here.

Michael Apted was interviewed by Jennifer Hodge, Associate Editor of Gather and Elizabeth Khoo, Editorial Coordinator, Gather.