The Most Vocal Right on Gather …
When one looks deep, they will find that the Right-Wing sets the standards here in political and social matters.
They seem to always have very specific ’facts’ that they throw out for ’debate’, and usually very ’in your face’ about it. They also seem quite ’militant’ in support of their ’leadership’ and it’s policies here and everywhere.
By doing so, they seem to demand that their information is the basis of all truth, that of all others then being their opposition and to their Left … and naturally ‘wrong’ and thus deserving of all of the obligatory labels of derision and disrespect.
Thus the Right does in fact appear to be the most Righteous, at least in their minds from a place of great pride. Somehow this attitude seems to equate with much of Evangelistic religiosity also. This attitude is displayed on a regular basis on much of the talk radio programs and regularly on television shows, most notable on the FOX network and some of the others, most especially on CNN’s Glenn Beck, where that is regular fare for him.
If one were to watch and listen to many media sources, as I do, one finds that there are certain word arrangements that consistently come from only certain key sources. Then when such a one listens to or reads those very same word arrangements, it is very recognizable who gets what message from where.
The Right though, are very loyal to their leaders, leaders who tell them that all others are wrong and not to be listened to. Thus the Right is not aware of just how identifiable they are by the message they put forth. They all repeat it so much, especially to each other, that they begin to believe that it is even a truth … as if they would ever have doubts in the first place.
Because the leaders on the Right are primarily more wealthy due to receiving the ‘benefits’ of their philosophy about the value associated with it, the followers look-up to them in high regard because they themselves have been told that they also can become so, by adhering to the philosophy of the party. These followers then become loyal supporters of ‘their’ team and are almost always very apologetic about such whenever questioned by others, such ‘others’ being automatically labeled as the ‘opposition’ and Looney Lefties.
So big money makes big money, buys up the media to editorialize it, while leaving just enough Liberal views to lend an air of authenticity to the words ‘free press’ and ‘fair & balanced’ … this draws in those that ‘want’ to believe what they hear … that which supports their ideology, which is the main message hidden in the total due to ownership. That also often being a message of doom and the requisite promise of salvation offered by the message for the obedient follower. (sounds a lot like religion in general doesn’t it?) …
Messages of great fears and then great promises always seem to play well to the peoples so indoctrinated to trust their leadership. They are told to be obedient, to get in line and conform, do not rock the boat, sacrifice of the individual for the greater good of the whole.
Others then are relatively Individualistic, thus less ‘organized’ (in politics, considered to not have a coordinated ‘plan’ by their Rightwing detractors) … The ‘most’ Liberal being the “standard’ of the opposition … the group that even Centrists such as myself are cast into by the Right. Progressive being a dirty word to that Rightwing group speak.
This should be enough to get some comments that will prove the truth of these words. IMnsHO.
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Comments: 73
she set the record but she is a liberal.
The big contributors are known to give somewhat comparable to both parties, it is called 'stacking the deck' or 'covering all bases' ... besides, much of goes to the media fees for advertising and they already own that, so to a degree it just circulates back into their own pockets.
I still have my skepticism of the right, but now have gone to a high causion mode with the left.
When I look at issues, I don't look for what seems right, or the quick answer, but what has the most stable/logical basis. Even on the Global Warming issue, when you look at the many factors of science then what is being said, things don't add up right. Then when you look at the opposition, you start to see a more founded arguement, which is why I follow that route, even if I don't always agree with the right on many of these issues, I have my reasons for going this way.
War in Iraq, the UN mess that up totally again, and UN peacekeepers were bing killed, and equipment destroyed or damaged (I found in their own Mission reports), Found chemicals were not allowed to be disposed of (I found this in five of their own reports that never made the news, and when I offer them to the news media, even Fox, they all rejected to even look at them).
No the Right is not the issue here, the Left is the major issue, then the right.
Dan, I respect your opinion, you at least look at a bigger picture that gives you balance no matter what 'side' you end up on.
Thanks Audrey ... but I promise I will not be answering everybody individually because this whole thing is just an exercise in specifics in general :-)
Care to share with us those certain words and certain key sources? If not, let's just call you full of shit and leave it at that ;)
What really gets me is that conservatives are always portrayed as not being able to think for themselves. It is assumed that it would be impossible to support someone like Bush without being brainwashed. They must think we sit in front of the TV all day tuned into Fox News waiting for our orders.
And our success is attributed to a sort of payoff for being a good brainwashed conservative. It never once occurs that maybe we actually provide great value to our employers or customers as the case may be.
Jerry, I took this (right or wrong) as a reference to a recent exchange we had. I am far from a neocon, and consider myself a moderate centrist. I look for facts to help wash away the rhetoric spewed from both sides of the spectrum. I never rely on a single source to form my views, and try and take in all perspectives.
With that said, I do trust and often rely on some independent sources that do not appear to have any agenda and dispel, equally, the hype from both sides. I truly believe that if you have complete disdain for either side you can in no way be fair in your opionated opinions. While 80% may be a high number for Gatherites on the left, 66-70% is probably a fair guestimate.
In the social security wars of 2005, for example, analysts looked at the use of words like "private accounts" and "personal accounts". One comes from Republican think tanks and was focus-group tested to reduce the distate about individual accounts. The other was used by Democrats (although Republicans first introduced it) because people tended not to like it.
The same is true of Operation Iraqi Freedom - there are controlled test about the number and occassions this word is used to refer to the war in Iraq.
While popular speech goes veering off in many directions, the pronouncements of the political class are usually well-tested.
Most of the members don't offer political comments at all.
"Right" and "Left" are very hard to figure out right now.
Of the coterie of commenters who are united in opposition to the fraud and decit of the Bush regime, there is a huge division over the issue of Immigration. There is no agreement here at all.
I believe tha the same is probably true among the bushies.
Most of the Bush-bashers are not class warriors, but there are a number of commenters who hate Bush because of his perceived patrician up-bringing who are pro-gun, anti-abortion, and on the "right" side of all the culture wars.
It would be interesting to see some real polling on political preferences on Gather.
Now I will work my way down the line some. Don, judging by reading you over a longer time period, you are pretty typical of the 'type' in question. The key words are most likely the ones that you use, typical. I will not list them at the moment but they do exist. But as I said already, you probably believe them and would call the likes of me what you have no matter what … there is no real debating with the likes of you.
Yes there are far more Liberals (meaning left of right) on Gather, but that does not really make them Liberal, only by the Standards of the Right. Like in many religious concepts, there are only good and evil, and of course it is only those that consider themselves good that think they are qualified to label all others as evil. Same thing with the Right, no middle ground grey area balance allowed.
Hating GW, not near as much as the Right likes to claim. He may be very disliked, but that is a far cry from hatred … something the Right are specialists about, them being the ones always claiming that others hate them and theirs.
Thinking for themselves … correct on all accounts Don.
Rex, sorry that you are disappointed. I did not intend to suggest that the Right out-numbered the Left on Gather, just that the Right seems to set the standard which the Left then objects to (again, Left meaning here, any to that direction in the eyes of the Right). I say this also in part to the fact that the Right is generally the most 'Hawkish' about things which causes them to be very militant (commanding) and even demanding.
As for my book philosophy, that is all about taking the total package into consideration in order to find the most overall truth, which is usually a more centralized balance, a form of moderation. BUT … we must first discover the parameters of what we are dealing with, both directions, in order to understand fully. Therefore this article is meant to shine some light on the subject, so we can all see the greater depth overall … thus when I say most vocal, it is in reference to the setting of the standard, which is usually done by those the most sure and confident in their 'Righteousness' … those the most insistent. That often comes from a place of Fear which generates hatreds … just what I have been talking about here.
Steve, as far as I know, this has nothing at all to do with anything in the recent past between you and I. I always felt that you attempted more balance than what I am suggesting here. I suggest that one can, and should recognize the extremes on all sides for just what they are … one does not need to judge them, but they must 'discern' (there is a great difference) in order to decide what to accept … or disdain.
Peter, I have no doubt that there is research to back up what I have said … and I am sure there is some on the 'other' side to say otherwise. That is why the exchange of so-called 'facts' in debates just go in circles. The Right relies heavily on their Think-Tanks to come up with their 'Talking Points' (those arrangements of words so recognizable), big money speaks the loudest. The most avid 'followers' repeat it all endlessly as if it were gospel.
There are many here on Gather that do not lean way Right, that do great research into the essence of the issues that they write about, but there are those certain Right-wingers that refute everything they come up with by throwing out their own 'facts' that are far less researched and much less valid.
As far as 'most' Gather members, not offering political comments … I agree. Most seem more involved with word puzzles, games and recipes etc … My article is more about those that do deal in social, political and religious issues … just things I feel are more important in this world. But to each their own.
Michaela, I fully understand what you are saying and I applaud you for doing so. Too much of the problem is the tendency to place everything into the extremes of right and wrongs with no validity given to the nuances of the middle. Many people thus only deal with what they know for sure that they want, rejecting all else. This causes polarization and conflicts all too often. Our people and especially our leadership, must come to learn the pitfalls of such thinking before they desire to change it to the better. For some it will be a very painful lesson. Hopefully they will not drag too many others along with them.
As far as the hatred of Bush goes, you say it's not so bad. Ok, show me the photo of Jimmy Carter or Bill Clinton (or Johnson/Kennedy) portrayed as hitler. I doubt you can find many if any examples. But Hitler/Bush mockups are endless.
My 'argument' is that we have to all come to recognize this trend and what is behind it ... the 'why' ... in order to correct the trend. That is why I threw this 'theory' out for discussion, I hoped to get people to 'look' a little deeper.
I know that most all people, that are at all caring, want peace. Some want it so bad that they actually fear the alternatives. The more fear the more hatreds ... and the most vicious cycle develops creating ever more of the same. This is very important to know, that like creates like, it is the basis of the law of 'cause and effect'.
I am not on this article to promote my book, but it is about this theory of conflicting duality we seem to be more involved in ... and a better way to solve our problems which is the recognition in a common Spirit that does in fact bind us all together ... waiting only to be recognised and asked to participate in that cause of more peace.
This is not a religious concept, though it is the basis of what all religions were at their inception. But without more 'preaching', I will say that it is a spiritual concept of Trinity where the Spirit of all is right in the very center of everything that goes on as the symbolization of "=" in the equation of (+=-) that could as well stand for any combination of potential differentiation. Without Spirit involvement we only have a
'Gap' between the differences as shown by the symbol of "/" in the duality as (+/-).
The main point being that when we seek difference to 'fight' about, that is the outcome, fighting. If we could seek our commonalities instead, we would be more likely to find peace. There is a tendency to 'judge' differences when we rather should only 'discern', leaving out the emotional baggage to be replaced with wisdom.
I may be wrong, but I have come to see that at the very extremes of our society we have on one end the most conservative who want restrictions and at the 'other' end would be the most liberal that want no restrictions. A very simplistic concept and arguable I am sure, but the basis of some understanding and maybe a compromise when (after) we see how this divides us ... we do need more understanding and more middle ground cooperation with compassion in order to get what we all really want ... peace in our personal reality so that we can each live the life we want.
I maintain that it is more likely to come from compassion and cooperation, those expressions of some love ... rather than from the opposite of love which is fear (expressed as hatreds) ... let us all seek some middle ground and work from there with some give and take tensions ... rather than stretch and stress to the breaking point by too much focus on the extremes.
As far as the photos, I have not noticed them, but I suspect that what I would go looking for I would be more inclined to find. These are surface things and come from emotions of expression, often conflictual ... the result of the stresses of in your face differentiations, the very thing we must seek to overcome.
Peace, j.
The far Left is much less definable because it is liberal, that is what being liberal is all about, along with resisting the far Right when their freedoms become too abridged.
The far Right is more about power and control to allay their fears. They seem to have great fear and that generates hatreds which they prefer to solve by conflict from their power base that assures them of 'winning' ... typical of 'hawkish' activity.
I have a lot less problems with the far left because they are much less fearful and thus much less hateful. They have more compassion for ALL peoples and would prefer to be INclusive rather than EXclusive. There is much more love (the polar opposite of fear) exhibited on the left than the right. The minds there are much more open than closed.
Of course all of this/that is subjective and everchanging. It would be so much better all around if the Right quit trying to hijack the center to their side, but they do not want to 'give' an inch for fear of some loss ... fear is destructive no matter who uses it.
If the shoe fits wear it ... I stand by my articles and comments without shame or pride ... it is just the way it is IMnsHO.
But for Rex, in all fairness I will continue to find equal fault with the Left ... so far I have not been able to. I feel the Right expresses their concepts of such far more than anyone ever should.
Why IS it that Bush is so disliked, and even hated? There's just something about the man that keeps his ratings so low [now that most people have taken the rose colored glasses off on the issue of Iraq.] Is it because he lied to begin with? Or, is it because he lied about 'why' he went there, or is it because he's lied ongoing?
Jerry,
You're right about the distinctions re control and fear. I think both the left and the right have been turned inside out. The old left has moved to the middle and the middle has moved rightish and some of the old righteous right plus the neoliberals are what we now think of as the neocons. I personally think of them as neoCONS. Some call the meld between the far right and elitest left, and all those who allow themselves to be bought, 'the Washington concensus."
I don't know what happened to the old godless commie hippies -- some of them turned into neoliberal cons and perhaps the rest are marijuana or drug tycoons or dead. Some of them became fiscally conservative socialists, some progressives. It's all very confusing. The founding fathers must be rolling over in their graves.
I'm beginning a neoCON dictionary, starting with the word "democracy". There's democracy and then there's democracy. . Oh, "transparency." That's a good one. In addition to private and personal security accounts, there are all those "entitlement" programs. I'll think of some more, as they come to me.
Missy - the choices you offer in your question about Bush's ratings is presumptuous. The reason his ratings are low is because we've had a non-stop campaign orchestrated by liberals and democrats that has been going on since the 2000 election. And I will concede that problems in Iraq as well as federal handling of Katrina have been contributing factors, but you must acknowledge this anti-Bush campaign coming from the left. It is unprecedented.
Don, maybe the (+=-) answers your claim also that it is I that is doing everything that you probably detest ... that which I claim that the Right tends to do ... the reversal of roles and the projection onto your opposite of what it is that you are doing. ? .
I will allow that possibility just as soon as you allow it. So far I only see it being done by 'your' side of the equation ... all I seek is truth and so far what I write about is my version of it ... withIN (+=-) there are always at least two versions, truth is relative here on earth.
I have seen these projections so often from your side as if to say that only the Left is wrong, them being all of the bad that is claimed to be related to your side ... so far I see it as denial on your side ... but I am open to being further educated if you have some truth that might help.
In general the left's position on wealth is the only good rich people are people who got it the old fashioned way.....Inherited it.... Kerry, Kennedy, Cuomo.
Anyone who had the wherewithall to actually go out and EARN it is evil and an exploiter.... Here's a newsflash for you Jerry; Small business provides 85% + of the jobs on this country. We are the engine that drives this economy. If you had your way, you would tax out of existence and then blame us for laying people off because we can't afford to keep them anymore.
You reek of hypocrisy....Alluding to "secret sentence structure" and "code words" that give the "right" away........... You may call it that I like to call it telling the unvarnished truth. You don't even have the backbone to back up any of your claptrap with any type facts. Rather, you just say, trust me there true.
Guess what happens to an INclusive herd of sheep that decide to invite the wolves over to talk about their differences........... Wool sweaters, and lamb chop buffets for everyone. You bask in the right to self flagellate this country (carefully excluding your intellectually superior self) and then mock the people who defend and protect that right...Get of your high horse please, it just took a dump and is stinking up the room
I didn't know you'd came "out" as a progressive. Are progressives rational, sane people who are competent? We could use some of those. I'm developing a lexicon here. Mostly though I'm focusing on the code words in the neoCON agenda.
War is hell and covert war is even more hellish and not as easy as it used to be. Even ABC owns up to that, while they're beating that drum about the centrifuges.
Don,
Right, blame the ratings on the liberal's unprecedented attacks. Guess that means the country is moving left? DeNial is such a deep river.
chris,
Sheep: Jerry probably thinks you know a thing or two about sheep. Let's face it, if someone gave you the money that the Kennedy's have or that Hillary Clinton has, you most likely wouldn't be redistributing it to mom and pop businesses.
I've spent 20 years building this business to where it is and I will be damned if that socialist pig or any other like her is going take another dime more from me to give some disease infested, snot covered, felon coming into this country illegally. Raise my taxes, someone's losing their job and it won't be me. I've worked too hard and put in too may 80 hour weeks for short money to let some political pimp take my money and buy votes with it. Kennedy and Clinton policies bankrupt Mom and Pop businesses. According to their numbers we're the rich who don't pay our fair share. Since i recently divorced if I make more than 55,000$, that qualifies me as "the rich"
You may feel Hillary et al know better than you what to do with YOUR money, that's fine, tell you what you can pay extra in your taxes next year ok? Me? I KNOW it mine and I'll keep it.
Give 'em hell....................
Some while back the student body invited Michael Moore (one of many with 'different views') to speak. The community adults went ballistic and attempted to get it stopped. Those all wise adults did not want one such as he anywhere near their conservative neighborhood, especially in 'their' college and worse yet, funded by 'their' school.
They couldn't stop it, so to 'balance' it out, they had Shaun Hannity come out to speak during the same time. Being the 'good' soul that he is, he did not charge for his appearance, just demanded payment of his travel expenses ... via a private jet to the tune of near $80,000.
Anyway, there was a documentary made about the whole thing, VERY interesting.
There are far too many that want to debate and argue these polarized issues from only their one side ... with only the one set of 'facts' that supports 'their' view while they claim any other 'facts' as false. It has been my experience, in taking in all sides first, that many on the far right leave all 'fact' finding to only their 'trusted' leaders ... who use the 'facts' presented by their trusted think-tanks (often just institutions of higher propaganda) ... it is quite obvious to one that takes it ALL in (both left and right) ... but the dyed in the wool party loyalists of the right would never be open minded enough to seek a balance before making up their mind. IF they did that, they wouldn't be ...
I don't an issue with an honest debate, but what some here do is totally childish and lack any maturity at all.
Like tonight being told I should be neutered and called a Commie for voicing a question on Child defense.
How sick of these people!
Using their own asininity to bypass a tough subject?
Napoleon BlownApart {aka: Michael } M., you and your friends should just leave my articles alone if you cannot even act some what mature and not like the Asses you are.
Then, of course, you have your supporters who don't bother to address the point of the article but instead choose to make personal comments about those in disagreement. And there, my centrist friend, is where your credibility goes in the tank. Your article is divisive, in contradiction to your "this equals that" theory, and you leftist viewpoint doesn't allow you to admit detraction from the left is just as offensive as detraction from the right. Personally, I believe the "+=-" concept is sound and can be applied to many situations we encounter here in the firmament (we talked about this in private emails) but it appears to me you don't bother to implement it when it comes to political matters.
When I get on the 'case' of the farther Right as I do, I do so to bring attention to the way they think in order to discover the 'why' of that thinking. The intention is to get everyone to understand just what it is that causes certain thinking in order to hopefully be able to improve the situation in a world that is becoming ever more polarized … which trends towards ever more conflict. The problem should not be swept under the rug as just 'normal' debate around favorite 'facts'.
I very well 'could' pick on the far Left also, I do to a limited degree in my book. But the more pressing problem, as I see it, is that of what I write about concerning the militarism of the Right … and just why that seems to be so.
I was not at all attempting to dissuade the Right from commenting, far from it, I encourage it because like I suggested, they 'hang' themselves in doing so (give them enough rope …). The 'Evangelical' Right is a large part of the problem because of the dualistic way of seeing things and their tendency to cast those unlike them as closer to their opposite, what they 'Righteously' consider evil.
Many of them cast the Liberal Left as being all of those at all to their own left as a big part of what they call the problem with this nation. Based upon the real truth of Christ, who most assuredly was a Liberal, this is a hypocrisy.
I am very much concerned about political matters because they are so much a part of our social structure, all of which determines the direction and outcomes of our lives in this entire world (not to mention the eternal universe).
I do not see myself as having 'supporters', but I do see the polarization that seems to cast most all into either/or (two camps) … my entire argument is that there IS a middle ground that gets no value in polarization … I believe that I do stand for that middle ground and I also believe that the Right is doing everything they can to make everything one way, their way … like in love 'their' America or leave it.
I care very much for peace … and I see the far Left as more caring about that than the reactive fear based militarism that comes from the far Right … it is really that simple IMnsHO.
Rex, I respect your opinions and levelheadedness in this discussion. I have no problem with your questioning my views and writings. Please let us continue to do so. Thanks, j.
I do not like a lot of things that the Bush administration has done, but I do believe we should uphold America to the world. All this bickering just makes us look even more rediculous in the eyes of other countries. It would be a shame if it took another 9/11 crisis to unite us again.
Your article is well written and thought provoking.
My husband and I were just talking about this yesterday. Maybe not liberal in all of the issues (in my opinion) but definitely in more issues than conservative evangelicals would probably want to admit. And surely more compassionate than many of his followers have proven to be.
I have to be honest and say that, in my short time on Gather I have seen far more mud slinging coming from the liberal community than the right. However, that may very well be because I haven't ventured over to articles started by liberal contributors as much (partly because of wanting to concentrate on my current contacts, partly because of my inability to be civil about a few key issues, and partly because by the time i get there the mudslinging has already gotten out of control) and because many of my more politcally minded contacts are conservative. I have no doubt that conservatives can and are just as nasty as liberals.
As you know, I continue to admire your efforts and desire to nurture respectful debate.
Thanks Liz, I appreciate where you are coming from. I myself am very conservative on some concepts and liberal on others, and as you know by now, I am less civil than I probably should be at times, but I try to work on it. Being overly polite about hurting peoples feelings sometimes just glosses over the truths that need to be addressed.
Because I do care enough about the world condition to really want to do something to improve it, I do purposely watch , read, and only occasionally listen (radio) in order to know where everyone is coming from and why. It does become quite evident as I have already indicated. Public television is about as fair and balanced as any major media presenter can seem to get. They have been accused of being liberal though, as I have said, because they are not conservative enough for those.
Jon, I most appreciate your take and comments on all of this, especially in that you admit to trending to the right. Yes, understanding is what is really lacking between the 'two' sides. I have been having a real problem with what I have thought to be the right 'claiming' positions and ideals that I have thought more belonged to the left … I have still not figured that out completely and some of the assumptions I have made would indicate that there is a vast difference between the way people on either side think … in that not all of those 'claiming' the very same things actually are in agreement with each other, even those on the 'same' side.
I agree that discussion will go farther than debate or the less civil methods so many of us are so often guilty of (speaking for myself anyway). Thanks for your understanding position.
June, thanks for your comment also. I am always willing to agree to disagree, as a compromise at least. There are most definitely (IMO) more liberals than conservatives here on Gather, but that has changed radically in the other direction since I signed up a year ago. I think that the increase of the right is good though … none of us would accomplish a thing if we only had our own choir to sing/preach to.
As for how we appear to the rest of the world, I suspect that many of them know more truths about us and what is going on than many here do. Our press (media) is much more 'controlled' than most here have any concept of. I am not saying that the media in the rest of the world is much freer or truthful, but it at least gives the 'side' to our situation that are withheld from us at home for various reasons, often because the truth is not wanted to be known by us according to those in charge that have agendas otherwise.
It is very sad that we did so blow our opportunity to go down a different path post 9/11 … eventually some common sense will reunite us , hopefully it will not take an even more pressing disaster.
Wandering Soul, you have a good attitude with the right ideas it seems to me. You and the others do push home for me the realization that I need to be more respectful also and I do hope to improve upon that.
Thanks everyone !!! (and I do mean you ALL).
Helllllllllllllllooooooooooooooooooooo
:@)
Your points are well made, and I believe very true. I warned one guy today about sounding "too fringe" so that they can discount/discredit you. I think you avoided that. Its hard not to blast the truth of our present mess from the top of any mountain we can get to.....but, thats what they count on. With the 'universal news-speak' you describe, they assure a consistent message....and a clear benchmark to measure radicals against.
I've been in rooms of powerful men who do exactly what you say. Like everyone, tho, there is always an achillie's heel .......a blindside.....you clearly point that out (i.e. having a propaganda detector via verbage 'pattern recognition'. Only a writer would get that, eh? ;-)
Soooo, what to do with it? Hmmm, maybe publish a short dictionary of terms/phrases and the 'translation'/intent behind it. Like a English to French book.....but funny.
These last few daiz I've learned the subtle process of skewering thu humor.....that satire piece by Bill.....too funny, eh?
Also, you point out a really good flaw/weakness that this propaganda creates.....the trap of falling for their own spin. Every gr8 salesman will tell you: "Never fall for your own bullshit....its lethal. Always keep a foot in reality, and know when and what you are spinning. Otherwise, you will lose touch with reality."
You've proven that truism, eh?
Fun stuf, Jerry.....keep on the good fight.....somebody has too, eh?
:-)
Your 'dictionary' idea sounds like a good one. Later, j.
If you are saying the facts of global warming don't add up you've been had. The opposition is founded on bullshit by bullshit artists. The right wing is very good at the rhetoric of that, but their facts are a sham. Scientists on the whole verify APGW is real, growing and happening now. All arguments against are indeed political;self-interested; and fallacious. Try that on for size. Looks like Jerry's on to something here.
realclimate
Being a follower, admirer and a worshiper of Jesus Christ - I find no difference between the religious Christian right and the Islamic Madrasas. They both use religion to further their own agendas- which is my way or the highway. The key mantra being repete it often enough by as many people as possible and it shall become the truth.
God gave us free will to think and not blindly follow. The self righteous people normally have to get right in your face to prove a point with mostly loud and foul breath. But I say the meek shall indeed inherit the earth.
I am kidding well done
"Messages of great fears and then great promises always seem to play well to the peoples so indoctrinated to trust their leadership. They are told to be obedient, to get in line and conform, do not rock the boat, sacrifice of the individual for the greater good of the whole" - this is why we left the physical church. Also, the righteous feel that they are God's chosen people so everyone else is wrong. They also confuse worldly wealth with God's blessings - which is completely opposite of what the Bible really teaches if one takes the time to read and understand.
The Old testament books of the Bible are used to control people and the New Testament is often not teached because Grace of God negates control by man and that is the case for Christ.
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Jeff Rense
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When did Liberal become a bad word? I'm Liberal and proud of it. I'm poor, I work hard, own a small business, Pay taxes (and gladly do it, I like my children to have good schools safe roads) I do not like to pay for a war that we should have never started. I don't like that we cut taxes and spend more. I love trees and rivers and forests and lakes. I love the smell of clean air after a rain. I believe in protecting the poor and dinenfranchised from the evils of corperate america. I believe in giving the poor a leg up when they need it. I understand that not everybody is smart enough or lucky enough to make a living wage. I gladly pay taxes to help them get healthcare. I believe in protecting people from poisons spewed by factories. I believe in paying for community mental health. All these things I believe in have been CUT since the warmongering republicans have cut taxes and waged a war they can't afford. We can't afford to pay for schools, cut the clean water act, cut half of the mental health budget, cut medicaid and medicare. All the while Dow Chemical is allowed to regulate themselves on how much they dump into the rivers of Michigan, (thanks to a republican Gov) Exon has posted record profits three years straight, it is the poor who have the longer commutes and older gas guzzeling cars in my area who are hurt. This is what I believe and I;m a Liberal and proud of it.
Do want to talk about talking points... How many times did we hear "weapons of mass destruction" "genocide" and "Torture chambers" in the lead up to the war? Yet when a real genocide is happening in a poor country we turn a blind eye. "Fight them over there so we don't have to fight them here" They call it "Partial birth abortion" because it gets a great emotional rise out of people. Republicans say they believe in states rights, except in gun control, abortion, assisted suicide, medical marijuana, envirnmental protection, water rights, and many more. Talk about double speak, come on.
The Born again president is for war and killing?
Should I go on? Liberal is not a bad word. I am liberal, I'm a humanist, and I'm sick of the right wing conservatives screwing up our country. Why is it that every time we have a republican in office we go to war, and raise the national debt to un heard of levels? Arrgggg, I'm getting all worked up now. I better sign off before I lose all civility!
I just read your article, so forgive me for coming in late. It was an interesting read.
Just think of the Left as the children, and the Right as the parents. That should clear up a lot of the perception problems you're having.
Doria c., sounds like something an STPer would say and while it is more sound then what most others are saying, I still do not agree with it.
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Jerry K.,
Fighting is not done over differences per se, fighting breaks out when one person or a group/side refuses to "tolerate" another's differences. Fighting starts when someone or some group or a side comes to the conclusion that eveyone has to be like them; alike.
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"I don't know what happened to the old godless commie hippies"
Missy W.,
take stock, "I'm" still here! You aren't the same Missy I knew in the city back in the day, are you?
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"Guess what happens to an INclusive herd of sheep that decide to invite the wolves over to talk about their differences........... Wool sweaters, and lamb chop buffets for everyone."
Good imagagery Chris!
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Wandering Soul,
Jesus was a man, a Jew, who led a spiritual renaissance. That renaissance had such far reaching affects that it still influenses us today. It is identified by his last name, (I hope to hell you know what it was)!
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Jerry K.
Those in charge of the media withold the truth from us only because we don't want to hear/face it.
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Jai S.
If you believe in something and you know it is better than something else, then it only follows that you use what you believe in to promote your own agenda.
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patrick m.
you are an agent provocateur, eh! Go fuck your self.
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"The Born again president is for war and killing?"
Exactly!!!
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"What good will it do do direspect the leaders of our great nation (getting no so great)."
Doria c., sounds like something an STPer would say and while it is more sound then what most others are saying, I still do not agree with it.
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Fighting is not done over differences per se, fighting breaks out when one person or a group/side refuses to "tolerate" another's differences. Fighting starts when someone or some group or a side comes to the conclusion that eveyone has to be like them; alike.
___________________________________________________________________________________________
"I don't know what happened to the old godless commie hippies"
Missy W.,
take stock, "I'm" still here! You aren't the same Missy I knew in the city back in the day, are you?
___________________________________________________________________________________________
"Guess what happens to an INclusive herd of sheep that decide to invite the wolves over to talk about their differences........... Wool sweaters, and lamb chop buffets for everyone."
Good imagagery Chris!
___________________________________________________________________________________________
Wandering Soul,
Jesus was a man, a Jew, who led a spiritual renaissance. That renaissance had such far reaching affects that it still influenses us today. It is identified by his last name, (I hope to hell you know what it was)!
___________________________________________________________________________________________
Jerry K.
Those in charge of the media withold the truth from us only because we don't want to hear/face it.
___________________________________________________________________________________________
Jai S.
If you believe in something and you know it is better than something else, then it only follows that you use what you believe in to promote your own agenda.
___________________________________________________________________________________________
patrick m.
you are an agent provocateur, eh! Go fuck your self.
___________________________________________________________________________________________
"The Born again president is for war and killing?"
Exactly!!!
Anyway, I respect ALL of your opinions ... REALLY. I may not agree with them all and most know where I stand on such things ... These 'discussions' do help though because it helps each of us to better understand where the 'other' is coming from ... as long as we keep that door ajar, there is still hope for us all.
It is good for me as an older person with an ever shorter memory, to go back over some of these comments to help remember what I have exchanged with others ... I prefer to be consistent and try hard to be ... but I realize that at times my fuse burns a bit short and I let some of my combative side come out too much ...
Objectively I may not seem to like everyone all that much, but subjectively (spiritually) I love you all ... even chris w. :-)
Peace, j.
Missy W.
entitlement programs = entitlement - something you are entitled to, i.e. you paid for it so you are entitlled to it.
There are only two I can think of - Social Security and Medicare - Those two every person who draws a paycheck pays for. Those programs for Medicaid, low income housing, food stamps, wics, etc are NOT entitlements. They are government charity.
Entitlement is a word the politicians came up with to cover all programs and is an out and out LIE let alone a blatant misuse of the english language.
I keep hearing about the expenses of Medicare and Social Security re the budget. WRONG - That is political BS - If the government would not have stolen all the money from those trust funds and replaced it wit IOUs they would be self supporting.
Social Security tax was not alway called that. Some of us remember when It was Federal Old Age Insurance, later it was called Social Security Insurance, Only in the last 20 or so years it became Social Security TAX. It is NOT a tax it is an Insurance Premium.
Jerry - You are as you said a centrist. One minute you are a far Left, Socialist, Democrat and the next you are a Right winger. I guess in some ways I am the same way but I am an equil oportunity hater - I don't like either one. You already know where I stand for the Oval Office. BTW Hows things way down in SE Montana?
Interesting that you are so familiar with Eureka. We have only been here around 6 years now, coming over from the Portland area after being introduced to Montana when we lived in Anaconda about 40 years ago. My wife's dad and grandparents had a homestead here from the late 1800's ... her dad worked on the railroad here also (well before your time I am sure and way before the dam at Libby displaced so much).
That is a great area that you live in also, I have been through there a few times.
I love it here, but have built too big of a house for our age, time to size down the wife says ... and worse yet, she insists we move back closer to the kids and especially the grand-kids ... looks like eastern Washington beckons.
Thanks again for your interest again. :-)