The G.I. Bill That McCain Refused to Sign

It is very disappointing.

HE'S been very disappointing, for those of us that used to like him, every since he sold out to Bushco.

Interesting for someone who knows what its like to be in the service and suffer through difficult times.

A veteran who hates vets.

Go figure.

Disappointing is a very mild word for my thoughts on McCain.I can't bear the thoughts of him being our next President.

When will we wake up to the idea that we must support the brave men and women who go where they are sent and do what they are told to do whether they agree with it or not? How can McCain, a POW, not support veterans? And how can he possibly put a good spin on that? Ugh... sickening!

That's right C J, a veteran who hates vets and a woman who hates women, what a ticket! It absolutely disgusts me.

This is dated 5/22/08

The Senate votes on the modernization of the GI Bill– passed overwhelmingly in the House last week– this morning at 11:30 am (EST). Mitch McConnell and John McCain, each of whom has a reprehensible record on veterans’ issues, have vowed to block the bill from passing. It’s a bipartisan solution, backed by every Democrat and plenty of Republicans, to the escalating costs of college education. McCain opposes it because he claims that if young men and women who complete their military service have a viable option– like a college education– they won’t re-enlist… to fight in the endless wars he has planned.

The bill needs 60 votes to overcome the McConnell-McCain filibuster. Many Republicans want to do the right thing for veterans and support the bill but they have been bullied by McCain into backing his own watered-down and ineffective substitute bill. Characteristically, the first rubber stamp to back down– and remove his name as a co-sponsor of the bill and vow to help the filibuster against it– was right wing zombie Jim Inhofe of Oklahoma, who, apparently, doesn’t want to mar his 100% anti-veterans voting record.

A lot of focus has turned to Alaska Senator Ted Stevens who used the original GI Bill to get through college and law school and lift himself into a position of great wealth. Many in Alaska are asking why their senator is pulling up the ladder after he’s risen to the top. Stevens has been fighting against fellow vets Jim Webb and Chuck Hagel as they try to get this bill enacted into law.

I recall when this happened and it really isn't liberal ummm poop as some might imply. He (McCain) had the nerve to say that this bill would raise the number of those who would not reenlist once they had met the requirements to receive these benefits. He convienently omitted the other part of the exact same study that indicated it would probably also increase the number of new recruits by at a minimum of the same amount.

Webb's bill is essentially the same bill offered to those who enlisted and served for 2 years during WWII, however his requires 3 years.

As for who does what to treat veterans as they deserve to be treated....which is to ensure medical, psychological, employment, education, and even housing benefits for those who qualify, this administrations record on the treatment of veterans has been abysmal. This is not a liberal or a conservative issue. This is a humanatarian issue. When a critically wounded soldier has to lay in his own waste for hours because no one will listen to his wife's pleas for help, at what has been toted as being the cream of the crop VA/military hospitals for decades THAT IS AWFUL. When they can read a chart long enough to know why the patient is there and what their health issues are that they ask a blinded soldier to read the eye chart...THAT IS AWFUL.

Then they are dumping those who clearly suffer from PTSD or other psychological issues from seeing what they saw, doing what they did, etc, and dumped out of the service with a diagnose that allows the military to wash their hands and allow for no benefits and they go and kill their families, or friends or strangers or theirself THAT IS AWFUL.

C.J. thanks for clearing that up for Lex.

Republican hasn't always been a term that should have hypocrite tied to it, but since the Neocons, which sooo includes McCain, took over, it's a given.

As a military member and then a retiree, I've been watching Senator McCain's voting record on military and veteran's issues for many years. He has consistently supported spending for weapons and deployments (like the surge in Iraq) but votes against anything that supports the welfare of soldiers and veterans, like funding to the VA, psychiatric services and educational benefits. Serving in the military doesn't mean someone will support the military when they win a political office, any more than being a woman means they will support women's issues. I really wish people would take the time to look at voting records rather than making assumptions about what candidates support.

Ada, thanks for helping to get the word out about this. So many people think that just because McCain was a P.O.W. that he takes care of vets. He doesn't. The public has to hear from vets like you to get the truth.

Thanks for posting this.

It is rather disgusting that McCain is so two faced about this.

He uses Vets and then discards them like so much trash.
And Bill O'reilly said no Vets are homeless.

They think a sign honoring them is sufficient.
Honoring them will not pay the bills.

"He (McCain) had the nerve to say that this bill would raise the number of those who would not reenlist"

Actually, that's a fact. So he had the nerve to be honest.

Webb veterans bill misses the mark

McCain Responds to Obama on Webb's Veterans Bill
by John McCain (I think he deserves to be heard on this issue, don't you?)

"It is typical, but no less offensive that Senator Obama uses the Senate floor to take cheap shots at an opponent and easy advantage of an issue he has less than zero understanding of. Let me say first in response to Senator Obama, running for President is different than serving as President. The office comes with responsibilities so serious that the occupant can't always take the politically easy route without hurting the country he is sworn to defend. Unlike Senator Obama, my admiration, respect and deep gratitude for America's veterans is something more than a convenient campaign pledge. I think I have earned the right to make that claim.


"When I was five years old, a car pulled up in front of our house in New London, Connecticut, and a Navy officer rolled down the window, and shouted at my father that the Japanese had bombed Pearl Harbor. My father immediately left for the submarine base where he was stationed. I rarely saw him again for four years. My grandfather, who commanded the fast carrier task force under Admiral Halsey, came home from the war exhausted from the burdens he had borne, and died the next day. I grew up in the Navy; served for twenty-two years as a naval officer; and, like Senator Webb, personally experienced the terrible costs war imposes on the veteran. The friendships I formed in war remain among the closest relationships in my life. The Navy is still the world I know best and love most. In Vietnam, where I formed the closest friendships of my life, some of those friends never came home to the country they loved so well .

"But I am running for the office of Commander-in-Chief. That is the highest privilege in this country, and it imposes the greatest responsibilities. It would be easier politically for me to have joined Senator Webb in offering his legislation. More importantly, I feel just as he does, that we owe veterans the respect and generosity of a great nation because no matter how generously we show our gratitude it will never compensate them fully for all the sacrifices they have borne on our behalf.

"Senators Graham, Burr and I have offered legislation that would provide veterans with a substantial increase in educational benefits. The bill we have sponsored would increase monthly education benefits to $1500; eliminate the $1200 enrollment fee; and offer a $1000 annually for books and supplies. Importantly, we would allow veterans to transfer those benefits to their spouses or dependent children or use a part of them to pay down existing student loans. We also increase benefits to the Guard and Reserve, and even more generously to those who serve in the Selected Reserve.

"I know that my friend and fellow veteran, Senator Jim Webb, an honorable man who takes his responsibility to veterans very seriously, has offered legislation with very generous benefits. I respect and admire his position, and I would never suggest that he has anything other than the best of intentions to honor the service of deserving veterans. Both Senator Webb and I are united in our deep appreciation for the men and women who risk their lives so that the rest of us may be secure in our freedom. And I take a backseat to no one in my affection, respect and devotion to veterans. And I will not accept from Senator Obama, who did not feel it was his responsibility to serve our country in uniform, any lectures on my regard for those who did.

"The most important difference between our two approaches is that Senator Webb offers veterans who served one enlistment the same benefits as those offered veterans who have re-enlisted several times. Our bill has a sliding scale that offers generous benefits to all veterans, but increases those benefits according to the veteran's length of service. I think it is important to do that because, otherwise, we will encourage more people to leave the military after they have completed one enlistment. At a time when the United States military is fighting in two wars, and as we finally are beginning the long overdue and very urgent necessity of increasing the size of the Army and Marine Corps, one study estimates that Senator Webb's bill will reduce retention rates by 16%.

"Most worrying to me, is that by hurting retention we will reduce the numbers of men and women who we train to become the backbone of all the services, the noncommissioned officer. In my life, I have learned more from noncommissioned officers I have known and served with than anyone else outside my family. And in combat, no one is more important to their soldiers, sailors, marines, and airmen, and to the officers who command them, than the sergeant and petty officer. They are very hard to replace. Encouraging people not to choose to become noncommissioned officers would hurt the military and our country very badly. As I said, the office of President, which I am seeking, is a great honor, indeed, but it imposes serious responsibilities. How faithfully the President discharges those responsibilities will determine whether he or she deserves the honor. I can only tell you I intend to deserve the honor if I am fo rtunate to receive it, even if it means I must take politically unpopular positions at times and disagree with people for whom I have the highest respect and affection.

We all know many vets who tried to go to school on the old GI Bill, and failed. It is good that McCain failed to block the new one. The idea that veteran's benefits should be limited because troops won't reenlist is deplorable. A career in the military is not for everyone, just as enlisting is not for everyone. Anyone who serves honorably,even for only four years, are owed a debt by those who have not(the vast majority of Americans). Most people can not even fathom the sacrifices of even the easiest of terms of service. The least they deserve is a free ride at a public university. Many of the kids coming out of the service are from careers that don't exactly have a civilian analog.
Those who think this is just "liberal bullshit" are nothing but stupid animals (see my post "The Animal: Man") who don't know what it truly means to be a human. Like John McCain, they lack integrity and humanity. They smile to your face, but that hand on your back seeks where to put the knife. They will steal your body's water and fatten themselves on it. They should be scorned. Their opinion is worth it's weight in sand.
Should only the highest ranking members of the military be afforded benefits? If seniority is what matters then where do we begin, hmm? The officers already have their degrees. And the Senior NCO's have job experience that will lend itself to any career in the civilian sector. Those who need it the most are those at the bottom. The ones who give the best four years of their lives to their countrymen while the children of the wealthy are failing out of school on mommy and daddy's dime; parting and playing flip cup and beer pong.
Shame on you, who would deny those who willingly risk all for your right to be a stupid monkey. Shame on you, who would deny the young war veteran the chance to seek the American dream that they fought to defend.
And the greatest shame upon any who served and would deny that right to their fellow veterans. Shame on you, John McCain! You who would claim the title of "war hero" for political gain and then betray your brothers and sisters in arms. May your knife chip and shatter! May you find neither shade, nor water, nor peace in the after life. You, like all traitors, are consigned to the left hand of damnation!

Clearly, McCain has thought this out and has a better, more sensible plan that rewards those who serve longer, as well, it allows the veteran to transfer benefits to spouses or children! Come on... that is a much better plan.

So much for dismissing McCain out of hand with ignorant bias and hate, eh???? LOL

"Shame on you, who would deny the young war veteran the chance to seek the American dream"

You're a disrespectful idiot. With all due respect, shut your hole.

Jim -- not for nothing, but Jim Webb has been married three times and has one child from the first marriage, three children from the second marriage and a newborn with the third marraige.... oh, and I don't know much, but her name "Hong Le Webb" sounds like he ordered her out of one of those Asian Bride Catalogs.

John McCain is a self made man. The fact that he married a younger beautiful and rich women kind of goes with the territory of being a go-getter ;) And he got her!

John McCain is a self made man? What materials did he use? Shit?

He was in the bottom of his class, he crashed more than 1 plane learning to fly, he picked up his sugar mama before he divorced his first wife...that's go getting?

Self-made man? Oh boy. I've never heard that term used for an elitist snob who had every advantage in life and still screwed up. He's a self-made man about like he is a maverick, and about like he puts country first.

"John McCain is a self made man? What materials did he use? Shit?"

He met Cindy in 1980. So let's go back a few years:

- graduated from the U.S. Naval Academy in 1958

- became a naval aviator, flying ground-attack aircraft from aircraft carriers
(when was the last time you took off in a jet from an aircraft carriers? ya dummy!)

- during the Vietnam War, he nearly lost his life in the 1967 USS Forrestal fire

- survived as a POW for 5 years (yeah, sure... that was a cake walk, right?)

- retired from the Navy after 22 years service as a captain in 1981

- elected to the U.S. House of Representatives in 1982, he served two terms

- elected to the U.S. Senate in 1986

- ran for president in 2000

- nominee for president in 2008

So, what's your background? Shoveling shit?

Let's see who wins this competition.


Webb graduated from the Naval Academy in l968, receiving the Superintendent's Commendation for outstanding leadership contributions while a midshipman, and subsequently chose a commission in the Marine Corps.

First in his class of 243 at the Marine Corps Officers' Basic School in Quantico, Virginia, Webb served with the Fifth Marine Regiment in Vietnam, where as a rifle platoon and company commander in the infamous An Hoa Basin west of Danang he was awarded the Navy Cross, the Silver Star Medal, two Bronze Star Medals, and two Purple Hearts. He later served as a platoon commander and as an instructor in tactics and weapons at Marine Corps Officer Candidates School, and then as a member of the Secretary of the Navy's immediate staff, before leaving the Marine Corps in 1972.

Webb received his J.D. at Georgetown University Law Center in 1975. He served in the U.S. Congress as counsel to the House Committee on Veterans Affairs from 1977 to 1981. In 1982, he first proposed, then led the fight for, including an African American soldier in the memorial statue that now graces the Vietnam Veterans Memorial on the National Mall. In 1984, he was appointed the inaugural Assistant Secretary of Defense for Reserve Affairs. In 1987, he became the first Naval Academy graduate in history to serve in the military and then become Secretary of the Navy.

Of course he has accomplished much more from writing 8 books and other achievements.
He also speaks vietnamese.
I am from Virginia, he is one of our best senator.

"You're a disrespectful idiot. With all due respect, shut your hole. "

First of all, Don, respect is earned and not owed. I owe John McCain no respect. I have, however, earned the right to express my opinion in this matter, just as I have defended your right to express yours. I am fairly certain that I am intimately more familiar with this particular issue than you are. I also have more right than most to chastise McCain's stance on this issue. I will not "shut [my] hole" as you so delicately put it. And I doubt that an idiot can express himself quite as eloquently as I have.

He believes in rewarding only career military people, like his father and grandfather before him in what amounts to a military dynasty. What about the soldiers who are everyday people, many of whom have no other means to get ahead once they complete their service? I have always been amazed at the proportion of our military who come from spanish speaking families, African American families, and other minorities, and those who come from low to middle income families.

It is not only unconscionable, it shows once again that John McCain is out of touch with everyday folks.

John McCain graduated fifth from the bottom of his class at Annapolis. He has a record of rebelliousness there, and lost 5 aircraft. He was known as a "party animal," and speakers at the Republican National Convention even bragged about his demerits, driving fast cars with a brazen women. We don't need a show of machismo, or rebelliousness in our foreign policy.

I thank him for his service, and am sorry he suffered as a POW, but there are others who served and suffered too, and still do.

McCain had valid reasons for not voting for the bill -- he made his case and not one of you can argue it. Instead we get these moronic comments judging his character and comparing his credentials to Webb and changing the subject to Cindy McCain.

Clearly, you moonbats lose again!

When John Where's MyCane starts to fail in his health , hopefully not in the White House, (God forbid what a chilling thought) you can be sure HE will have the best health care available. Too bad for all the vets who are suffering from war related illness and injuries and are receiving the bottom of the (pork) barrel health care , if any.

"Too bad for all the vets who are suffering from war related illness and injuries"

You just changed the subject.... pile on with the sob stories! Great liberal debating technique.

Please Don, We wouldn't have all these sob stories if it wasn't for the Bush administration which MyCane was such a compliant part of. And as for debating techniques, I taught my children that potty talk was not appropriate when they were toddlers...How old are you?

Laurie, Don pretends he is different ages and professions, depending on the conversation. Some of us have decided if he isn't twelve, his development arrested around that age.

John McCain is a self made man? What materials did he use? Shit?

He was in the bottom of his class, he crashed more than 1 plane learning to fly, he picked up his sugar mama before he divorced his first wife...that's go getting?
MJ, Capt. of the High Green Seas, W., Sep 19, 2008, 12:16am EDT

Thats damn funny.

Don't you just Love Donny Boy who on just about every post says "clearly you Moonbats lose again" or something so damn pathetically stupid just like that? I think he feels that we are playing a hand of five card poker instead of worrying about the future of this great country. Plus if he keeps saying "clearly you lose again" maybe someone oy\ther than him might actually buy into that delusional illusional conclusinal with out a clues you know conclusion of his!!!

I mean let's look at this where Don claimed his victory and than comment on each one with the actual FACTS!! (sorry Don, I know how much you hate those little FACT thingees and how they keep getting in the way of your obvious delusions and hatred!

"John McCain is a self made man? What materials did he use? Shit?"

He met Cindy in 1980. So let's go back a few years:

- graduated from the U.S. Naval Academy in 1958 Don
Fact: Graduated 5th from the bottom when his dad and grand daddy were influential admirals/
- became a naval aviator, flying ground-attack aircraft from aircraft carriers
(when was the last time you took off in a jet from an aircraft carriers? ya dummy!) DON
FACT: Crashed five government aircraft worth millions of dollars and took American life on at least one of those crashes

- during the Vietnam War, he nearly lost his life in the 1967 USS Forrestal fire DON
FACT: Smoking in bed???? Or actually Don, can you give us more of the facts on this one? Was it a fire he started when he crashed another plane?

- survived as a POW for 5 years (yeah, sure... that was a cake walk, right?) DON
FACT: Did that after crashing his fifth plane and there are conflicting reports including one from the man who ran the pOW camp that says the torture is or isn't real.

- retired from the Navy after 22 years service as a captain in 1981 DON
FACT: Can't argue with this one.. In Fact I am sure his daddy and grand daddy the ADMIRALS were vere proud of little Johnny.

- elected to the U.S. House of Representatives in 1982, he served two terms DON
FACT: Met Cindy in 1980 (see above as it is one if not the only thing that Don Got right here). Cindy's daddy was very influential man who helped JOHNNY BOY GET THAT SEAT, Why some may even say it was bought for him. I wonder what his ex-wife would say about it? Especially after he left her home laid up in bed after a severe accident and went out and lied about his age to a woman that lied about her age and than they had an affair. A woman who was worth millions with a daddy worth 100's of millions.

- elected to the U.S. Senate in 1986 DON
FACT: See above for Daddy in law number two buys Senate Seat.

- ran for president in 2000 DON
FACT: Got his ass kicked and also got made a fool out of by a man named GWB. A man that he went on to hug and kiss and have happy birthday parties with and hung out together withand partied while New Orleans collapsed and many, many people died!
ANOTHER FACT: The same people who in 2000 thought that the biggest clown ever to become president mr. GWB was a better candidate than "Jukebox Johnny" (including Donny, but hey he is so delusional he still thinks GWB Is a great president and if he were running again he'd probably vote for him over McCain yet again. THe vote for GWB would definitely happen if his opponent were different in any way than who Donny thinks are the "only True patriotic Americans") are now voting for Johnny Boy and think he's great

- nominee for president in 2008 DON
Fact (actually if there is enough people in this country with sense it'll be a FACT) Going to get his ass kicked yet again. In FACT now that the REAL SARAH PALIN has stood up and been recognized for the sham she is, the poll numbers of less than a week ago are dropping like a rock from the top of the Empire State Building when rating McCain's lead or chances.

So, what's your background? Shoveling shit? (fact, no that McCain's job! Every time he opens his mouth! Even Karl freaking ROVE said so!!

Don (Obama puts the "O" in dim-O-wit) H., Sep 19, 2008, 1:00am

Donnie, I love it when you post, someone I see it as another little voter or two getting their Obama wings!!!!

Oh and a clear fact , an opinion and also a question for Donnie.
FACT: McCain's voting record is one of the worst of any senator when it comes to Veteran's benefits.
Opinion: Everyone wonders why a veteran who has been through so much would vote down so many benefits for other veterans. Well my opinion on that is that, he doesn't have to worry because in his deluded state maybe he thinks thay all married 400 million dollar Sugam Mama's!

Question for Donny:

There are about 5000 or more homeless men and women down walking the streets of Philadelphia every day. What they and McCain have in common is that they all served in the Vietnam War and most of them were POWs. Do you think that any one of those people should be president because they were a POW?

"I taught my children that potty talk was not appropriate when they were toddlers...How old are you?"

LOL.... old enough to reply in kind to the 'potty talk' from your moonbat friends.

"Do you think that any one of those people should be president because they were a POW?"

Do they have the experience to run? McCain has been in the Senate for 26 years. It's aggregate experience in case your not clued in yet, moonbat.

"Laurie, Don pretends he is different ages and professions"

I've never stated my age, but my photos are there for all to see, and I rarely talk about my profession, but I assure you I don't lie about it.

"FACT: Did that after crashing his fifth plane"

You obviously have your head up your ass. 'Crashing' and getting shot down by Soviet made SAMs are completely different. You don't even have a clue what his mission was, or what was going on with the SAMs in those days. The short story is that the missiles had to be destroyed and the survival rate was very low for the pilots that VOLUNTEERED to go on those missions. In light of that and out of respect for McCain's heroic service and your lack of respect, GFYS! Clearly, you're a clueless loon.

I agree with McCain on this one. Why would someone who served 4 years have the same benefits as someone who served 16?

Wow Don, cCain got "shot down" 5 times!!?? He is a hero! OH no, wait, theother four times he just crashed! Plus who knows what really happened the fifth time? Were you there when it happened? I mean hey, I am sure it can work both ways. Look what the "Swift Boat Boys" (whosome of them now work fo McCain by the way) did to a man who was a true hero and saved the lives of other troops. Not possibly killed troops on his own side wth one or two of those crashes where he wasn't "shot down".

Just about every "watchdog organization" out there that reports on these types of things says that McCain has oneof the wrst records out there when it comes to voting for veterans benefits. So that is just he FACTS, "Delusional Donnie". I know you usually don't let those things called FACTS get in the way of your BS so why should you start now. You wuld rather show your ignorance and hatred again and again with your insults instead of dealing with the facts so it's all good brother.

Besides, you aren't a verteran are you? And McCain has a 400 million dollar benefit package of a wife to take care of him. So why should either one of you care if truly deserving veterans get the benefits the need?

Yes, and yet he doesn't want to vote for healthcare for children in the U.S. There are a higher percentage of children living in poverty in this country than in any other industrialized nation in the world. 26% of the children in this country are considered impoverished. The second highest is Italy with 16%.

Those statistics are so sad, Carla. Yet we keep sending the money that should be feeding our children to the war. PBS is conducting a survey on whether Sarah Palin is ready to be VP. You can vote as many times as you like, so it really isn't an accurate survey. The results showed a good lead for the nays, but a huge republican e-mail base is swaying the results so it looks like the public is saying yes. The site is http://www.pbs.org/now/polls/poll-435.html

For those who don't know: Service members who are on active duty get 100% tuition assistance as do their dependents. Plus free CLEP testing and much of your training is college accredited. The person who serves for 16 years has no excuse NOT to get their degree while they are in, except that they just didn't try. It also gets easier to do as you go up in rank. R.H.I.P.: Rank has its privileges. An NCO has an easier time getting time off the job for classes than a junior enlisted man does. There aren't many first term (4-year) NCOs.

It is the lower ranking soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines that need the most help in this regard. Many of them come out of the service without any trade skills, or with skill that do not readily lend themselves to a high paying civilian jobs. Recruiters actively try to "sell" young men and women on less desirable jobs, such as EOD (explosive ordinance disposal), Infantry and many other "combat arms" careers that don't have many civilian counterparts (I feel like a broke record here.) Those are the jobs with the high bonuses that sucker in the young, dumb ones.

I ask, is there some sort of shame in a four or six year term of service without a reenlistment? Should those young men and women be PUNISHED for not making the military a career? For not reenlisting in the ALL VOLUNTEER U.S. military? It is not a career for everyone, and when you have served your people in a way that less than 1% of the population chooses to do, the other 99% owe you a little something in return. Why not a college education.

Also, all these benefits only get used by those who REALLY want an education. Many troops never even use their benefits. But the ones who do, are the ones most likely to put it to good use. If you don't apply yourself, if you fail out of a class, guess what? You get the bill! And Uncle Sam doesn't pick up the tab for a second shot at it. You have to get apply yourself and get it right the first time, so you aren't abusing the tax payers generosity.

If the military doesn't have enough people in, then they simply don't let you leave. It's called STOP LOSS. It is the military's way of involuntarily extending your contract beyond the original agreement (note that the troops don't have the same latitude to arbitraily alter the terms of their enlistment contract from their end.) Don't make the mistake of blaming those who have served their country honorably for other peoples personal decision that an enlistment is not right for them. Support your troops in actions not just in bumper stickers.

Thanks for your thoughtful comments, T.P.ofD.

And as far as the poll, Laurie, it wasn't scientific. And the election will show how people really feel.