Published: March 05, 2008 9:50 AM ET
NEW YORK Even in the afterglow of a truly super Tuesday, the chief HIllary Clinton backers today have not outlined a plausible scenario for how she actually overcomes the Obama lead and gets enough delegates to win -- except that two of them, Terry McAuliffe and Gov. Ed Rendell, are now introducing the possibility of a re-vote in Michigan and Florida.
If Hillary wins big there, then she has a shot, but the Clinton managers have resisted the idea, claiming, until now, that they already won in those states -- even though they were "illegal" primaries from the party's view. Florida is now discussing shelling out the money to do the vote, and if that happens, Michigan will likely follow.
Now Obama is on the spot. He can plausibly claim that Clinton had agreed to party rules, now wants to break them, so tough luck. But the party can shift course itself and say it's okay if the two states want to spend the money to vote again.
Then Obama looks like he has dissed the voters in those states, who would then take it out on him -- running up the exact big margin she needs to win. That could happen. He may have to agree to a vote and a fair fight -- which would make this a whole new ballgame, with The New Math suddenly not so one-sided in his favor.
(Howard Dean said today Michigan and Florida could revote if they come up with the way to pay for it)
recommend this
email
print
link to this page
Comments: 38
You've got to love Howard Dean -- he decided that Florida and Michigan don't count, and now he wants the states to pay for his stupid decision. Dimocrats rock!
"There will be no other primary. Florida Democrats absolutely must vote on January 29th. We make this election matter. Not the D.N.C., not the delegates, not the candidates, but Florida Democrats like you and me voting together. We make it count." --Karen L. Thurman, Florida state party chairwoman, September, 2007.
Blame this woman and Michigan party officials. They were warned. Again, voting in a primary is not a constitutional right! Check your civics. The DNC can and is for now not seat the delegates.
A plague of instant-onset Alzheimer's has apparently afflicted Florida Democrats, the Hillary Clinton campaign and every member of the MSM covering the 2008 election. Suddenly, nobody can remember why Florida Democrats have been stripped of their presidential delegates.
According to both Hillary Clinton and Howard Dean, it's all a plot by evil Governor Charlie Crist and Florida Democrats. And the media happily reports this storyline as true.
Ooops:
PEMBROKE PINES, Fla., Sept. 23, 2007 — The Florida Democratic Party announced Sunday that it would move ahead with its plan to hold its presidential primary on Jan. 29 despite the national party's decision to block the state delegation from the 2008 Democratic convention.
State party leaders said that even if none of the state's delegates were seated at next summer's Democratic presidential convention, the earlier primary would still help determine the nominee. --TheNew York Times.
Again democrats in Florida did this to themselves, now they want to blame the governor, nonsense.
There is no fair solution to this. Don't do anything is unfair to the people, and anything else will be unfair to either Obama or Clinton.
She will destroy the party. She shall not be the first woman president. Claire McCaskill, Kathleen Sebelius, Barbara Boxer, these are democrat women with integrity. McCaskill is the future of our party and I hope she runs for the presidency in a very near feature.
On the other hand, I don't see why a new election should happen unless the Democrats pay for it.
My personal choice would be to not seat the delegates, however, because everyone knew the rules well in advance, and Obama's name was not even on the ballot in Michigan. These are both unfair.
Seriously, the democrats really stepped into it big time on this one! What genius thought it would be okay to disenfranchise the voters of two key states, the democrats will need to win the presidency? Listen to Don H., he wants his vote to count, and I agree. If there is a re-vote, it should be a primary, and the national democratic party should foot the bill. Otherwise, Hillary Clinton should sue to have them seated. What court is going to support the disenfranchisement of voters, who voted in a state sanctioned election. Yes dems, you have successfully buried the ghost of your alleged "stolen" election of 2000, by denying ALL dem voters in TWO states their votes--congrats!
Oh Alan, you haven't seen anything yet! If Obama is the candidate and it's a close election with McCain winning, 2000 will look like a picnic--charges on charges, recounts of recounts and all that protesting! It will be a nightmare.
For all the accusations, Obama has not challenged votes. He filed a petition to have polls hours extended due to bad weather and the judge agreed. Clinton used unions in Nevada to supress votes. They want to sue for Texas caucus. I don't know on what grounds yet, so I wont dispute it. There is no basis to say that Obama will take it to court if he loses. For MI and FL, HE SHOULD TAKE IT TO COURT if they do anything wrong. There are a host of illegal things in these two states. You just cannot make up the rules in the middle of the primary as someone already posted. Period.
There could be be challenges to the vote come January, if it is close. Most places are dumping the Diebold touch machines which are the source of suspicion. They may prove to have been rigged and when there is a true Justice Dept we may find out the truth. At any rate, from all evidence, it appears to be shaping up as a Democratic landslide victory.
Kay, you dont want the guy to be cheated no matter what. If he wins more pledge delegates according to the rules he should win. That's all I am saying and that's all I want. Let's follow the rules as laid out.
If they piss off Hillary voters, the democrats won't win. If they piss off Barack's voters they won't win either. They need to let this proceed first. Barack is going to win Wyoming on Saturday, Mississipi on Tuesday. If Pennsylvania is won by Clinton by less than 10 and Barack wins the other states he is supposed to win North Carolina (see South Carolina), West Virginia (see Virginia), this wont be an issue. Why make a decision now. Wait it out. Whatever you do right now, you will alienate a group. Wait a little bit and see. A scandal can pop out and one the candidate drops out. If you force anybody out and make a ruling against one John McCain wins.
In his defense it's tough, not an excuse, he is in a position no one has been before. We forget, a bit, that Clinton is a wife of a former president. Many of these super delegates owe their status in the party to the Clintons. That by itself makes the process tainted, don't you think?
Howard Dean is feeling pressure from these Clintonites, in particular those of them who the Clintons have dirt on.
Barack should no pay for it. He came up with a strategy of winning all the small states and staying close in the big states to come up with more delegates. It's working for every Ohio he picks up Wyoming and Mississipi. For every California, he picks up Washington, Utah, and Colorado.
Case in point: Ohio. Ohio gave Clinton 9 delegates. Penn Michigan and Florida will give her 20 to 30 delegates. Barack leads by 88 to 100 delegates (today) depending on where you look. He will extend that by Tuesday.
Second point. Bill Clinton said Jesse Jackson won South Carolina. Well Jesse Jackson won Michigan. Even if she wins, it will be close delegate wise. If you understand how the democrats allocated delegates you would know that the big cities Detroit and co have the delegates. Look at the texas delegate map. Barack only won the big cities, lost big time everywhere else 62-30 and lost by 4 percent, tied the delegates.
I am talking delegates. He will not lose the delegates.
Looking forward to your next article. You should go join Mark Penn. You are getting better at the spin. You need more facts however
When I say she will not win, it's passion not reason
When I say he will the pledge delegates, it's logic and arithmetic
Of course she can win the nomination. It will take over turning decisions made by the DNC, large (+15) wins in Penn, MI, FL, and super delegates.
Of course that can happen. However, this should lead to a John McCain win in November.
How will Hillary do as a president if she beats all the odds. SHE WILL BE GREAT, if she can work with the house. People come here and trash the other candidate. This is the attitude in all the blogs and it will help John McCain.
I will respond to every anti Obama posts with information to balance it out. Keep your argument fair supported by facts not propaganda and will have a grown up political discussion. If not, bring it on, we will balance the information you put anywhere with information of our own. I will flood gather with anti Clinton people if this does not stop!
All right Alan! I'm lovin it! But Alan, I think Gather already has more of its share of Hillary Haters! I respond to counter all of them.
NBC/MSNBC: Hillary Clinton has received 13,521,832 votes so far in primaries and caucuses while Sen. Obama has received 13,497,175.
In addition to the overall lead in votes, Hillary holds a significant lead in votes among Democrats. Hillary has received nearly 10.3 million votes among Democrats so far while Sen. Obama has received 9.2 million.
Clinton is winning the big states, those states have more delegates. You cannot come back with the popular vote. You win Ohio and there are 200+ delegates there. Obama wins Vermont there were only 20 delegates there. It's factored in already, that's double counting if you come back with vote argument. What's so hard to understand about that?
Al Gore would have been president otherwise. You want California to decide the election every year? They have more people than 15 states combined.
Those are the super who are elected officials. Then you have the at large super (DNC members, former whatever). These people do not answer to anybody.
"Wouldnt the will of the people be the person with the most votes? "
Yes, but where? A district level super delegate in Dayton, Ohio answers to the people in Dayton Ohio, not even to the rest of the people in the state. The gov of Vermont answers to the people in the state of Vermont not the people in Ohio. Make sense?