In March 2006, at the suggestion of Republican Rep. Frank Wolf, the Iraq Study Group aka The Baker Commission, was formed and "charged with delivering an independent assessment of the situation in Iraq and the US-led Iraq War" and to make "policy recommendations." The commitee is set to release its report on Dec 6, 2006. Well, my fellow Americans, that day is today! The full report can be read here:
Warning: The situation is not good. We have been consistently misled by the "mission-accomplished" Bush administration that we are winning the war and that the Democrats are being negative and the liberal media only portrays the bad things that happen in Iraq, never the good. In fact as recently as October 25, 2006 Bush has attested that "we are winning the war."
And so, to read the reprt is sobering indeed. It is a resounding response to the absurd notion that we are winning. Critics may assail the report for "being negative" but I would rather be negative than continue staying the course of the past 4 years with rose-colored glasses and living in complete denial of the direness of Iraq. KNowing and accepting that we have a massive problem on our hands is an important first step. And the report includes a number of excellent suggestions for stabilizing the region (deploying more troops, addressing the larger Arab-Israeli issue) that RObert Gates has already said he will implement. I believe that the Iraq Study Group report represents our country's best hope for stabilizing Iraq.
Excerpts:
"The situation in Iraq is grave and deteriorating. There is no path that can guarantee success, but the prospects can be improved."
"Our most important recommendations call for new and enhanced diplomatic and political efforts in Iraq and the region, and a change in the primary mission of U.S. forces in Iraq that will enable the United States to begin to move its combat forces out of Iraq responsibly. We believe that these two recommendations are equally important and reinforce one another. If they are effectively implemented, and if the Iraqi government moves forward with national reconciliation, Iraqis will have an opportunity for a better future, terrorism will be dealt a blow, stability will be enhanced in an important part of the world, and America's credibility, interests and values will be protected."
"If the situation continues to deteriorate, the consequences could be severe. A slide toward chaos could trigger the collapse of Iraq's government and a humanitarian catastrophe. Neighboring countries could intervene. Sunni-Shia clashes could spread. Al-Qaida could win a propaganda victory and expand its base of operations. The global standing of the United States could be diminished. Americans could become more polarized."
"During the past nine months we have considered a full range of approaches for moving forward. All have flaws. Our recommended course has shortcomings, but we firmly believe that it includes the best strategies and tactics to positively influence the outcome in Iraq and the region."
"The United States should immediately launch a new diplomatic offensive to build an international consensus for stability in Iraq and the region. This diplomatic effort should include every country that has an interest in avoiding a chaotic Iraq, including all of Iraq's neighbors. Iraq's neighbors and key states in and outside the region should form a support group to reinforce security and national reconciliation within Iraq, neither of which Iraq can achieve on its own."
"Given the ability of Iran and Syria to influence events within Iraq and their interest in avoiding chaos in Iraq, the United States should try to engage them constructively. In seeking to influence the behavior of both countries, the United States has disincentives and incentives available. Iran should stem the flow of arms and training to Iraq, respect Iraq's sovereignty and territorial integrity, and use its influence over Iraqi Shia groups to encourage national reconciliation. The issue of Iran's nuclear programs should continue to be dealt with by the five permanent members of the United Nations Security Council plus Germany. Syria should control its border with Iraq to stem the flow of funding, insurgents and terrorists in and out of Iraq.
"The United States cannot achieve its goals in the Middle East unless it deals directly with the Arab-Israeli conflict and regional instability. There must be a renewed and sustained commitment by the United States to a comprehensive Arab-Israeli peace on all fronts: Lebanon, Syria and President Bush's June 2002 commitment to a two-state solution for Israel and Palestine. This commitment must include direct talks with, by and between Israel, Lebanon, Palestinians - those who accept Israel's right to exist - and Syria.
"As the United States develops its approach toward Iraq and the Middle East, the United States should provide additional political, economic and military support for Afghanistan, including resources that might become available as combat forces are moved out of Iraq."
"The primary mission of U.S. forces in Iraq should evolve to one of supporting the Iraqi army, which would take over primary responsibility for combat operations. By the first quarter of 2008, subject to unexpected developments in the security situation on the ground, all combat brigades not necessary for force protection could be out of Iraq. At that time, U.S. combat forces in Iraq could be deployed only in units embedded with Iraqi forces, in rapid-reaction and special operations teams and in training, equipping, advising, force protection and search and rescue. Intelligence and support efforts would continue. A vital mission of those rapid reaction and special operations forces would be to undertake strikes against al-Qaida in Iraq."
"The Iraqi Army is making fitful progress toward becoming a reliable and disciplined fighting force loyal to the national government. By the end of 2006, the Iraqi Army is expected to comprise 118 battalions formed into 36 brigades under the command of 10 divisions. Although the army is one of the more professional Iraqi institutions, its performance has been uneven. The training numbers are impressive, but they represent only part of the story. Significant questions remain about the ethnic composition and loyalties of some Iraqi units specifically, whether they will carry out missions on behalf of national goals instead of a sectarian agenda. Of Iraq's 10 planned divisions, those that are even-numbered are made up of Iraqis who signed up to serve in a specific area, and they have been reluctant to redeploy to other areas of the country. As a result, elements of the Army have refused to carry out missions.
"The Iraqi Army is also confronted by several other significant challenges: Units lack leadership. They lack the ability to work together and perform at higher levels of organization the brigade and division level. Leadership training and the experience of leadership are the essential elements to improve performance. Units lack equipment. They cannot carry out their missions without adequate equipment. Congress has been generous in funding requests for U.S. troops, but it has resisted fully funding Iraqi forces. The entire appropriation for Iraqi defense forces for FY 2006, $3 billion, is less than the United States currently spends in Iraq every two weeks.
"Units lack personnel. Soldiers are on leave one week a month so that they can visit their families and take them their pay. Soldiers are paid in cash because there is no banking system. Soldiers are given leave liberally and face no penalties for absence without leave. Unit readiness rates are low, often at 50 percent or less."
"The state of the Iraqi police is substantially worse than that of the Iraqi Army. The Iraqi Police Service currently numbers roughly 135,000 and is responsible for local policing. It has neither the training nor legal authority to conduct criminal investigations, nor the firepower to take on organized crime, insurgents, or militias. The Iraqi National Police numbers roughly 25,000 and its officers have been trained in counterinsurgency operations, not police work. The Border Enforcement Department numbers roughly 28,000. Iraqi police cannot control crime, and they routinely engage in sectarian violence, including the unnecessary detention, torture, and targeted execution of Sunni Arab civilians. The police are organized under the Ministry of the Interior, which is confronted by corruption and militia infiltration and lacks control over police in the provinces.
Here are excerpts from a letter from Iraq Study Group co-chairs James A. Baker III and Lee Hamilton:
"There is no magic formula to solve the problems of Iraq. However, there are actions that can be taken to improve the situation and protect American interests. Many Americans are dissatisfied, not just with the situation in Iraq but with the state of our political debate regarding Iraq. Our political leaders must build a bipartisan approach to bring a responsible conclusion to what is now a lengthy and costly war. Our country deserves a debate that prizes substance over rhetoric, and a policy that is adequately funded and sustainable. The president and Congress must work together. Our leaders must be candid and forthright with the American people in order to win their support."
"No one can guarantee that any course of action in Iraq at this point will stop sectarian warfare, growing violence or a slide toward chaos. If current trends continue, the potential consequences are severe. Because of the role and responsibility of the United States in Iraq, and the commitments our government has made, the United States has special obligations. Our country must address as best it can Iraq's many problems. The United States has long-term relationships and interests at stake in the Middle East, and needs to stay engaged."
"In this consensus report, the 10 members of the Iraq Study Group present a new approach because we believe there is a better way forward. All options have not been exhausted. We believe it is still possible to pursue different policies that can give Iraq an opportunity for a better future, combat terrorism, stabilize a critical region of the world and protect America's credibility, interests and values. Our report makes it clear that the Iraqi government and the Iraqi people also must act to achieve a stable and hopeful future."
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Comments: 36
First off, there is zero chance we will ever be speakign arabic or under sharia law in our own country. There is zero chance of some Islamic Caliphath across the arab world. Arabs can't even unite against their main enemy in Palestine, or in Lebanon, or anywhere there is large populations of different sects. Radical Islam, at least the brand where any American is free game to be killed is still found only in an extreme minority of Muslins. Now granted, I'm sure a large percentage of Muslims can at last understand why there is a small percentage of extremists but to actually descend into that realm still resides in a small fringe group. When elements in Iraq post videos saying that they won't stop till every infidel is dead and until an Islamic Calipath is attained, our leaders then transpose those few fringe extremists almost onto the entire Muslim world. When the reality is, man christians, and even jews reside comfortably and unharmed within Iran, which could be regarded as the most radical islamic country.
Now granted if we pulled out of Iraq, the situation would be horrible for the Iraqi people, but if we choose to stay, the only way it can get better, is if we gain some type of legitamacy with the muslim world, and address the fact that the Palestinian people are the most opressed, abused and neglected group of people on the face of the planet. Until we acknowledge that, and work with even the most extreme regimes in the middle east to solve the Iraq problem, it will only get worse and worse.
Here is an interesting video that I found. I am curious what your opinions on it are.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7828123714384920696&q=palestinian+occupation&hl=en
Your link to the report didn't show up. I understand it's available at npr.org, though.Thanks for taking the time to put this up. You are a fine, public-spirited citizen of Gather World.
And Mickey, I'm afraid there's PLENTY of doubt about that. The Bush/Cheney cabal doesn't have a very enviable record of taking good advice.
As Mr. Gates admitted during his confirmation hearing yesterday, we are not winning in Iraq. He also concurred with General Abizaid's comment that we are not losing, either. In other words, we are stalemated, achieving nothing, while more and more of our troops are being killed and maimed on a daily basis (12 dead over this past weekend alone). We are engaged in a war of attrition, practically no different from our long drawn-out, pointless Viet Nam experience. We WILL be getting out of Iraq. The only question is, will it be sooner or later? I vote for sooner.
Also, sorry Daryl, you're dead wrong when you say the Palestinian people are "the most oppressed, abused and neglected group of people on the face of the planet". That sad distinction belongs to the people of Darfur.
BY THEIR OWN FELLOW ARABS! The ONLY country they are allowed in (outside of Israel) is Jordon as a citizen. The Arabs continue to use them as a thorn in the side of the Israeli nation. I pray we NEVER give in the the mythical people known as Palestinians. (Only about 40 years old).
The ISG seemed excellent at making fair and balanced talking points for both agendas - esp. since ONLY one of the group left the Green Zone to gather information. Political experts, not foreign policy advisors.
there is a small percentage of extremists but to actually descend into that realm still resides in a small fringe group.b>
If 85% of the Muslim world believes in the coming of a 12th Caliphate after a period of world chaos; see dying to achieve that end as a blessed event; are called by the Koran and hadiths to obey the call to jihad; and understand that Sharia Law is the ONLY acceptable social order; and they are called to UNITE to acheive that end, then settle differences amongst themselves, HOW can you believe it is a 'small fringe group'? Does that bring you comfort so you do not think about your grand-daughter being stoned to death for wearing jeans?
Canada has installed Sharia Courts without a shot fired. Declining birth rates in Europe and immigration has made the dominination of Muslims in Denmark, Italy, France, Germany and others almost a certainty within another generation. How many planes blown up will the 'small fringe group' cross over to a major threat?
How many suicide bombers walking into OUR schools, offices, trains, buses, stadiums, malls, government buildings, etc will it take to see that small fringe group as a threat, or would you just suggest we all grab a Koran, declare allah numero uno, and let bygones be bygones.
How many court decisions that give Islamists more gree reign in the name of Religious Freedom, and the imposition of their views and rights over yours will you tolerate before they are NOT just a small fringe group?
****
"Could?" Iraq's government is already ineffective and in a state of virtual collapse; Iran is already intervening; Al Qaeda has its propaganda victory (and worse) and has expanded its base of operations; our global standing has already been diminished and we are polarized. There is nothing in this report that has not been obvious for a very long time -- it is just that this administration doesn't want to acknowledge these problems (and still doesn't, report or no report, because it is gives Bush and his band of ideologues a failing grade in foreign policy).
Bush and the neocons have seriously weakened this country not just by its irrelevant invasion of Iraq and neglect of Afghanistan, but by abandoning even the pretext of being an honest broker in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and, without reflection or analysis, tying its policies to those of Israel. We wanted democracy: we're getting Hamas and Hezbollah. We wanted stability: we're getting an ascendant Iran, a stronger Syria and chaos in the region. This report is too little, too late. Until these incompetents leave government and go back to Crawford or an undisclosed bunker in Wyoming we will not even begin to solve our problems.
All your sophmoric writing, and insistent gigles, do little to affect a change in me to enjoy any AMERICAN humilation, and the ensuing costs to our futures, as much as you obviously do.
I know you are a studious viewer of CNN, BBC, NBC, CBS, ABC, MSNBC and the other MSM outlets (Main Sinister-ista Media), so we all acknowlege your exteme foresight and knowledge of all the insights into the Islam faith and political repercusions. 20/20 Hindsight is a rare gift indeed, oh wise one.
Israel gets some major kudo's for the olive branch they extended yesterday to the Palestinian people
For 60 DAMN years Israel has offered your worshipped olive branches and been bombed and rocketed and suffered suicide attacks in EVERY instance. When is enough enough oh Great ME Super Ambassador?!
Peter H- I love your comment too. Right on about the ethnic-cleansing death squads too. I have never in my life before heard of ethnic cleansing where people need to be carded before they are killed or spared. THAT is how obscure the difference are.
I really do feel hopeful after reading this report and listening to the hearings on NPR that we are reaching a true turning point in Iraq and might be able undo the hard we have caused.
Grateful1- Why did you delete this article from your Ignroance is Bliss group? Is it because you are a fascist censor?
In fact, I've been saying it for MONTHS. lol"
Right on Tony. I truly believe that the rest of the country is quickly following suit. There will always be the few diehard crazies who continue to deny reality (probably the same people who believe the moon landing was staged.) But, I do think this report is not only redemptive for the liberals who have been ignored for too long, but also cause for hope, yes, hope that we can finally rally start tackling the issues of Iraq.
This group was pulled together to give Bush a way out without admiting his mistakes and spitting in the faces of the soldiers he sent there to die and be maimed for a sum total of nothing... a whim, a folly, a golden beacon of democratic light sitting right on top of a vast store of oil reserves.
In Iraq we are now watching a re-run of the morning of 9/11/01, figuratively speaking. George W. Bush piloted one plane, Cheney another (along with co-pilot Rumsfeld), as they dive-bombed the towering structures we knew as Iraq. The twin towers are now belching black smoke, their structures fatally weakened, and we are on the verge of watching them collapse into a useless jumble of debris (liberally sprinkled with the corpses of the Iraqi populace). Holy martyrs Cheney and Bush will long be fondly remembered by their most faithful adherents, the Halliburtons.
In Iraq we are now watching a re-run of the morning of 9/11/01, figuratively speaking. George W. Bush piloted one plane, Cheney another (along with co-pilot Rumsfeld), as they dive-bombed the towering structures we knew as Iraq. The twin towers are now belching black smoke, their structures fatally weakened, and we are on the verge of watching them collapse into a useless jumble of debris (liberally sprinkled with the corpses of the Iraqi populace). Holy martyrs Cheney and Bush will long be fondly remembered by their most faithful adherents, the Halliburtons.
Huh? Did you not read my part on how Bush said "we are winning" and "mission accomplished" while the report says the situation is deteriorating. That's a big change.
It also call for mroe troops instead of stay the course. Again, a change.
It also acknowledges the broader problem of the Arab-Israeli conflict, the first time i haver ever heard that broached in the context of the Iraq War.
How exactly does htis line up with the previous stated goals? WHat even wer ethe previous stated goals?
"Even funnier that Liberals tout this as a break through, just because they like the messenger better. " The messenger has NOTHING to do with it. It's a new message and yes even though I despise the war I want to handle it in the best way possible. DO you also agree with Porgie that we should just cut and run? Didn't you just tell me earlier that liberals don't want to win? Finally, Congress has presented us with a viable plan based on the reality of Iraq and, yes, that makes me happy. What do you propose we should do DuMP?
All this talk about Israel is not germaine to the Iraq war. They are totally unrelated.
Seriously, what an embarrassment to women everywhere. She makes me sick.
I think people have different definitions of winning. For me, it means stabilizing the region. I think Iraq IS already in the midst of a civil war. I do think it's a good think that they are not going to divide up the state by groups, as that would mean war for time eternal. I think the best we can hope for is quelling the insurgency and trianign the Iraqi's to protect their own country with minimal help from troops that will inevitably be based forever.
Just remember that GWB is the commander-in-chief.
You say "it's good that they're not going to divide up the state by groups". That's not a decision that's going to be made by anyone in government, U.S of Iraqi. It's happening spontaneously. Sunnis and Shiites are segregating themselves, out of necessity (simply for survival puposes). Those who don't leave the country all together--and a great many are doing exactly that--will wall themselves off in sectarian enclaves. And "war for time eternal" is exactly what we have to look forward to there.
This fiasco is from beginning to end a product of Bush and the Republican party who allow it to continue. I don't want to hear about the inaction of Dems. They could have runs the street of DC nude painted like Cherokees and they could not have stopped Bush without control of Congress. That is the inescapable fact. No control, no oversight, period. Any contrary claim is pure stupidity.
There is no compromise with architects of failure. There is no negotiation. Compromise is assuming responsibility for crimes YOU DID NOT COMMIT. Failure to achieve "victory" (whatever the hell that means) becomes a shared failure instead of one solely belonging to the originators of failure. First and foremost the Dem must be politically held immune from responsibility for the outcome of this disaster. If some idiot blasts a hole in a dam and you are called to shore up the crumbling wall are you responsible for its fall or the idiot? The Repubs desperately wish to smear us with their failure. No way Jose'.
Let George hem and haw on the study group findings. Unless the Repubs publicly abandon him and politically neuter him, Cheney, Rice and the others the Dems should let them hang in their own stew. It's like some jackass handing you a trillion dollar debt after stealing your wallet then expecting you to smile and say "gee thanks, I got it from here. Go skip off and have a good life. Your sins are mine now." No way. Bush must be held accountable and punished and the Dems accepted to do the best they could with mess pitched in their laps. Success, fine. Failure=Bush.
BY THEIR OWN FELLOW ARABS! The ONLY country they are allowed in (outside of Israel) is Jordon as a citizen. The Arabs continue to use them as a thorn in the side of the Israeli nation. I pray we NEVER give in the the mythical people known as Palestinians. (Only about 40 years old).
The myth of the Palestinian people? I don't understand where the myth comes from? Is it a myth that 800,000 Palestinians were displaced when Israel declared itself a country. But the story goes that the figureheads of the time said that they meant no harm and that if they just stayed put everything would be fine. Well if there true intention was to actually let them keep their land, why steal it from all of them? Sounds to me like they wanted to take it the whole time.
And to comment on the fact that no Arab nation ill take then. Look at what happened after hurricane Katrina. Here's a news article that explains it:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11677333/site/newsweek/
Basically, the situation is that Houston, after 6 months and with 250,000 refugees
could barely handle the strains put on its cities resources. So if 250,000 people puts strains on the resources of a large city on the richest nation on the planet, please explain to me how in the hell that an of the bordering Arab countries with gdp's not even in the top 30 could absorb the now currently 4.1 million Palestinian refugees. Who must not exist because they are a myth correct?
So lets put it more simply, lets say someone comes in and destroys all of my relatives houses, takes they're land and everything. Now I am the only family member left, but I can barely feed my own family. So I am supposed to graciously accept all of these now displaced relatives into my home forever, without the ability to assist them, and not be upset at the people that placed them here? Is this world going insane or is it just me???????????????????????
The reason that Israel plays such an important part in this whole mess, is because the only way out of this, is to make peace with the Nations that are hostile to Israel because they play a large part in the instability currently going on in Iraq. The only way to effectively bring peace, is to come to an agreement with Syria and Iran who have the greatest ability to help ease the situation if they truly wanted to.
And could you link maybe a news article of where they installed Sharia courts in Canada?
So what's the solution then Grateful 1? Should we invade more countries? Should we just kill every Muslim in the world then? Would that make you feel safe?
Until we address the issues of why there is Islamic extremist, we will never have peace. So are you telling me that the reason radical Islam is in place, was because a bunch of clerics decided that they want to end the world and that they should just starting hating random countries and killing people indiscriminately for no reason whatsoever? Wow, amazing.
Just for the record, a large part of our foreign police is being drive by fundamentalist Christianity. Jesus can't come back if Israel isn't a country. Israel could invade and decimate whole countries (Lebanon?), be condemned by the UN left and right, literally get away with anything they want yet we will back anything because of the Christian Right that has installed itself into our foreign policy.
And frankly, it's a brand of Fundamentalist Christianity that is disgusting. Jesus taught to love your neighbor as yourself and to turn the other cheek. And look at what we are doing here:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7828123714384920696&q=pal
When are you guys gonna get this thru your blockheads? Why do you bitch at the people who've told you all along this Bush contrived mess was doomed from the beginning? Give a viable solution buddy boy before spewing your right wing chesthumping bull. Quit being a lightweight DMP.
A couple of rrandom comments:
I think from Bush's viewpoint (and Rove's) the commission's findings were an embarrassment but at least give the Administration some cover if they actually do decide to shift their approach. That may be a big 'if.' And although I think Dubya is a bigger national disaster than Katrina and 9/11 combined, I am forced to say that as commander-in-chief he cannot...cannot...stand up and say that we are losing the war or that the war was a mistake when our people are being killed and maimed over there on his say-so.
As I've said, I don't think we can salvage Iraq, whether or not we embed trainers with the Iraqi army. The army doesn't know what it is fighting for, and neither do the police: both are loyal to their religious factions. The insurgents and militias know exactly what they are fighting for and have been murderously effective with no training whatever. It's ominous to think that thus far no one except the British -- in Malaysia -- have successfully fought an insurgency, and it took the Brits 12 years of staying in the jungles to do it. No matter how much we want to succeed in Iraq, I don't think we should hold our collective breath.
The Israel-Palestine problem is at the heart of everything that is going wrong in the region, including Iraq. Palestine has long been what that country has been called, and its people, including Jews, were Palestinians. The European Zionists came in there after the Holocaust and were promised a Jewish state, which would be carved out of Palestine. Israeli terrorist groups like the Urgun and the Stern Gang murdered Arab Palestinians and drove them from their ancestral homes; Palestinians tried to drive Jews out as well, and we all know the history of wars that vile politicians like Nasser instigated...and lost. This is a complicated problem, and there is enough blame to go around...and around. But we can't help wishing that the Palestinians would put a stop to this futile, seemingly non-stop intifada. They could have had a state fifty years ago...instead they've got nothing but misery. Ironically, all they have to do is make a deal and start building a nation...and let demographics put paid to the dream of a Jewish state, if that's their goal.
Just one example of how difficult it is to overcome political distortions in an attempt to decrease our dependence on foreign oil is the ethanol scam. Ethanol from biomass is a very good concept and could help in this, but politics has screwed that one up as well. We are insisting that most of the ethanol will come from corn -- thanks to the politicians from the relevant sections of the country. The problem here is that it takes just about as much energy to produce the ethanol from corn as it ultimately gives out when we put it into our cars. But we (shamefully) subsidize the sugar growers, so we can't use cane -- which would be far, far more efficient -- because it is too expensive. A lovely Catch-22 of our own devising. I wish we were as clever at solving our problems as we are at creating them.
2. The Iraqi military isn't ready to be on its own. They can take on most insurgents, but they would never be able to defend themselves against an outside force. The vehicles they use are over 20 years old. Most vehicles need to be towed to different areas.
3. Leaving would dramatically decrease forces against insurgents. It would put more pressure on the Iraqi army than before.
4. Leaving also openes up opportunities for Al-Queda to strike vital oil fields in the Middle east. There is a Saudi island that refines, stores, and transports much of the worlds oil by itself. An attack with a plane could easily bypass Saudi, Iraqi, and Kuwaiti defenses. They could triple the price of oil overnight.
5. Iran will win if we leave. Until we can defeat the Iran-backed insurgents, vicotry can never be achieved. But we are on the verge of breaking them. Another 2 years and they will be gone,
6. We are so close now. The Iraqis are getting beter equipment and training with us there. Soon The Insurgetns will be defeated. Another 2-3 years and opposition will almost cease.
7. The world is really being a bunch of pussies on this. They want 2-hour movies and its over. They don't know that war changes over time. Its not going to be ww2 fighting, with massive caualties in open fields. Its going to be small fighting. the weaker opponent can't afford to fight like that. They resort to small hit and run tactics. They try to draw out the war until they either get an advantage, or the opponents population opposes the war. That means wars are going to last for many years, not 4-5 anymore.
8. It took America 8 YEARS to make a stable government. So far, We have only given Iraq 6 years to rebuild. We expect to much of them. They have built a government, but need time to impliment it. We had the courtesy of having France support us. France went bankrupt liberating America from Britain. The American revolution was fought by Americans, Against the British, and won by the French as it is said. Iraq doesn't have us bankrupting ourselves to support them. Iraq just needs some more time.