Wow. Well, it's not as if most of us didn't realize that republiCONs really don't give a rat's patootey about the soldiers, except their capacity as political stage props, but this outta convince any lingering disbelievers out there.
RepubliCONs simply do not care about the troops. Period. We saw it when they sent our troops into an illegal, unnecessary war. We saw it when they cut funding for the VA. We saw it when they allowed corrupt contractors to feed them rotten food and poisoned water. We saw it when we saw how those private contractors committed heinous acts against Iraqi civilians, thus putting huge targets on the backs of our soldiers. We saw it when they refused to provide proper equipment and armor for them. We saw it when they cut death benefits. We saw it when they attempted to cut battle duty pay. Over and over and over and over again, we've seen these filthy rat bastards abuse our soldiers.
Well, they've done it again. Here's the latest republiCON attack against our soldiers.
rate
email
print
link to this page
Comments: 126
Sadly, yes, it do indeed.
It figures. The GOP seems to be drunk on GWBs baloney. Too bad.
Regards,
Doyle I <~~~~~
He has seen his dad for approximately 14 days in the last 3 years...What a total waste for not only this child but all the rest just like him who are growing up without parents!
Yes his dad volunteered for his job as did all of us who take a job. But does your job take you away from your family for that long, placing you in harms way every day for that kind of pay, while your "boss" back home works diligently to cut your benefits?
Every single person who voted for anyone in this sham administration should be ashamed...very ashamed!!
Your theory is that there should be absolutely NO limit on how the National Guard can be used then?
Regards,
Doyle I <~~~~~
Neither party has 56 members in the senate. Therefore, it was a bipartisan effort to kill the bill.
Will they defend their corrupt immoral party?????
If one of these Senators is yours , you should be ashamed !!!
This bill would have FORCED a timeline. This is why the republicans killed it. That said, the title was misleading. As usual, the democrats play games and leave the hard and unpopular decicions up to the Republicans. Americans are not as stupid as you libs think... they will not be fooled by the sugary sweet title of the bill... they understand what the end result would have been had it passed.
And once again... DEMS lose. You guys are doing great with your majority. And 300 investigations into 'corruption' and you have Alberto almost resign (close, but no cigar) and you got Libby on forgetting somehting two years ago... and Bush commutes. So you got nothing. That was some power shift in 2006. NOT.
I'm not ashamed to have voted for this administration. They were the only ones in the world who took the initiative. Everybody else just cowered, and begged us to do the heavy lifting.
And although I didn't like it, I sent off 2 family members and 4 friends to go to war. There are plenty just like my family too. We know the mission is important and critical...........that's why we don't mind doing what has to be done.
PJ, I understand not having your son around. My son is on his 2nd tour, and my nephew is too. God bless them for their sacrifice.
The few. The proud. The delusional.
"They were the only ones in the world who took the initiative."
You're absolutely correct. Nobody else would've launched an illegal and unnecessary war. Everybody else would've gone after al Qaeda instead.
"I sent off 2 family members and 4 friends to go to war. There are plenty just like my family too. We know the mission is important and critica"
YOU sent them? Who the hell are YOU, their master? That's pretty damn twisted.
Oh, and there was no mission in Iraq, btw. Iraq had nothing whatsoever to do with 9/11 or al Qaeda. Switch away from Fox now and then. Your ignorance is showing again.
The republiCON obstructionists have once again showed us all why they lost the majority in congress in 2006, and why they will lose MORE seats in 2008. They know NOTHING except standing in the way of progress. No wonder, they're called "regressives."
The American public wants this illegal disaster ended. RepubliCONs do not. They want to keep it going forever, so that more and more Americans and Iraqis can die needlessly and so that more and more hundreds of billions of debt dollars can be siphoned into the pockets of the war profiteers.
Where were all the republiCON hypocrites who cried "up or down vote...that's all we want" whenever democrats filibustered one of Bush's mindless, idiot troll appointees? How come they're so silent over this? All the dems wanted was an up or down vote, but the republiCONs had to play political games with our soldiers instead. May God damn them all. Filthy, scummy, anti-American, rat bastards.
Sooner or later, the soldiers themselves are going to get sick and tired of being used by these dirty bastards. Our soldiers were NOT meant to be political props, tools, or weapons. The GOP will pay dearly for this.
Wake up people... are you awake? Something is up and it aint perty.
arguing with your foolishness is a non-starter. Republicans oppose a time line because they have nothing to offer but continued pointless bloodshed. They have failed to achieve their own benchmarks. It takes REAL CHARACTER to admit you've made a big mistake and killed thousands of people while wasting tax payer money. Yet Republicans can't face it.
Democrats can be blamed for not opposing these policies enough. Yet that blame pales in comparison to the evil perpetrated on the American people, the Iraqi peoples and the world by the likes of Bush and his minions!
Only in the feeble, twisted, diseased minds of the bush worshippers, who still live in upside/down, inside/out world. Up is down. In is out. Good is evil. Dumb is smart. Lies are facts. Traitors are heroes. Etc.
Now, I do agree that troops should get to see their families, and they get to see them for most of the yeat after their deployment. At least myself, everybody in my unit, brigade, and just about everybody else I know who serves, did. But we are in a time of war. This is one of the greatest conflicts that our country has faced in decades. Sometimes, sacrifices must be made. Troops should get to see their families, but the interests of the country should come first. The war effort is the most important thing right now. The fate of Iraq, the Middle East, and many other nations and people are at stake here. Lengthening troop deployments and shortening R&R is not unreasonable during times like this.
Times like THIS? What is THIS? THIS is a fake war! This is all about making money, this has NOTHING to do with the US and its safety.
True American, there is nothing fake about this war. REAL lives are at stake. There are REAL consequences for failure. For the sake of the argument, I will admit that we went to war for the wrong reasons. But how does that help improve the situtaion? How will that make things better? We are stuck with the war we have, and saying that we went to war for the wrong reaons wont change that. Disagreeing with the war wont help. This is the most important conflict the United States has fought in the last 30 years. We must do everything we can do to win.
"This is all about making money"
Wrong. Yes, money is made during wars, just like the hundreds of billions that were made during WWII, but this war is not being fought for money. So far, the government has lost more than it has made. If you are losing money, its not a very economical investment. A brain-dead chimp, aka Bush, would know that. This war is being fought so that Iraq can become a stable, peaceful, and prosperous country. Yes, many lives have been lost, and terrible things have happened. But that is the cost of war. It takes time, effort, and patience, but the US can win this war.
Thomas -- I would not expect you to see the big picture. They don't want to undermine this or any future President's powers as Commander in Chief. That's ok... you just keep pretending you've got a handle on this issue ;)
Their plan all along was to keep the military-industrial complex rolling in money (their one TRUE god) as long as possible.
IMPEACH BUSH/CHENEY NOW
This is not a "great" conflict. Jerry Bremer, a newbie to Middle East affairs, had 2 weeks to bone up on Iraq. His decision on the day he arrived (against loud protests by experienced diplomats in country): fire every Baathist--schoolteacher, utility worker, accountant. Result: a rapid disintegration of civil society. Two months later: fire every Iraqi soldier. Result: the onset of a four-year nightmare of anti-occupation violence and mayhem.
Fast-forward to 2007: earnest efforts at "re-Baathification" and cries for the Iraqi military to "step up." In between: denial of reality of the existence of an insurgency. (Today: counterinsurgency is the centerpiece of the "surge.")
This incompetent floundering would be laughable if not for 3,610 US troops killed and so many tens of thousands disabled, brain-injured.
Like you no doubt did when Clinton was engaging in Kosovo and Iraq, right? I remember distinctly how well the kookie wingnuts supported THAT CIC during his "time of war."
Btw, slumbering fools, nobody has declared a state of war. We are NOT "at war." We are occupying a nation, against their will, that caused us no harm and posed us no threat. We are there solely to secure oil reserves for American and British oil companies, to fatten the wallets of the war profiteers, and to build permanent bases, to use as launching pads against other sovereign nations in the region.
You want to know how I know that this is a bullshit charade that has absolutely nothing to do with "defending the US from big, bad, meanies?" Take a look at your southern border, and ask yourself if a nation "at war with terrorists" would leave it wide open, to allow 3,000 unidentifiable, illegal aliens to pour through every day.
That's really all the proof anyone needs that what we're doing in Iraq has absolutely nothing to do with "fighting terror."
Iraq was a completely unnecessary, illegal war of aggression, and now, thanks to the "brilliant guidance" of our wonderful cheerleader-in-command, is nothing but a cesspool of unending violence, and a breeding ground for hatred of the US.
The BushCheneyCorp/GOP occupation of Iraq will go down in history as THE single worst foreign policy disaster in the history of this nation, and will likely rank very near the top in world history's worst military disasters. Wear it proudly, bush worshippers. This one is all yours.
What an absurd statement. Show me conseratives out in the street protesting like you lefties do for everything.
(a) Submittal of Plans to Congress.--Not later than 60 days after the date of the enactment of this Act, the President shall submit to Congress a comprehensive, current plan for each of the following:
(1) The rapid redeployment of United States forces from Iraq.
(2) The phased redeployment of United States forces from Iraq, with such redeployment to be completed not later than 180 days after its commencement.
(b) Plan Elements.--Each plan on redeployment under subsection (a) shall include elements as follows:
(1) A comprehensive description of the redeployment as currently proposed.
(2) A comprehensive diplomatic, political, and economic strategy that includes sustained engagement with Iraq's neighbors and the international community for the purpose of working collectively to bring stability to Iraq during and after the redeployment.
(3) Plans for United States basing rights in the region after the redeployment.
(4) Plans for United States military access to Iraq to protect United States citizens, personnel, and infrastructure in Iraq during and after the redeployment.
(5) Plans for United States and other allied and international assistance to the Government of Iraq during and after the redeployment to support its security needs (including the training and equipping of Iraqi forces) and its economic and humanitarian needs.
(6) Plans for efforts to prevent a refugee flow from Iraq that would destabilize the region.
(7) An estimate of the costs of replacing United States military equipment left in Iraq after the redeployment, or otherwise depleted, including equipment of the regular components of the Armed Forces and equipment of the National Guard.
(8) An estimate of the costs of the redeployment and of any support of the Government of Iraq after the redeployment.
(c) Form.--Each plan on a redeployment under subsection (a) shall be submitted in both classified and unclassified form in order to permit the complete articulation of the plan.
So this is "strict limits on National Guard and reserve deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan as well as mandating more downtime at home before active-duty combat troops are returned to battle."? Looks like a withdrawal from Iraq ? Am I wrong? Plus it looks like they don't want Iraqis leaving . Does that include if the genocide that some feel is acceptable?
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?r110:1:./temp/~r110fmBdgH:e0:
Don, wake up! I'm a conservative and I hate this war, and our administration. Anyone who supports Bush is a moonbat! (Whatever that is)....Why don't you just admit that the republicans have done a horrible job in Washington the last 6-1/2 years! Uncontrolled spending, expansion of Government control, etc..you name it..none of it is in line with Republican or rightest mantras.
As far as lefties protesting..that is exactly what this country needs when we have out of control government...the righties better join the protesting too..because most of them are getting screwed just as bad...we are headed for fiscal meltdown, and you want to still support the folks who are leading us down that path? You make no sense...how do you plan to fund social security, medicare, and even if you eliminate them, how can we possibly afford to pay off our debt? This is madness at it's worst! Why do you think the idiotic candidates from both parties talk more about abortion than they do our debt? How bizarre that we are in debt to one of our oldest enemies...communist China, and now our best buddy in destroying the American economy....don't you see anything wrong with this picture?
Deficit spending has dropped considerably. The news came out today that 2007 will be 200 Billion... far less than the previous year and trending fast to zero.
That's sure to keep our VA Hospitals busy for awhile.
Well said, Clark. Somebody remind me...when was the last time Congress declared war against somebody before the commander-in-chief sent in the troops to start killing people?
Start Pay: $38,032 + bonus, shift differentials, incentives, etc.
http://www.cityoforlando.net/police/misc/recruiting.htm
That's not bad if you start young.
Vacation/Personal Leave
0-2 years of service: 19 days per year
2-7 years of service: 24 days per year
7-16 years of service: 29 days per year
16-20 years of service: 34 days per year
20 or more years of service: 35 days per year
plus you get a pension, health care, retirement, holidays, life insurance..... that is a great deal.
There is no mission in Iraq?
You need to inform the 160,000 troops that are there.
What an absurd statement. There was no reason for conservatives to take to the streets. We didn't have an illegal president destroying American democratic ideals and abusing his power, 24/7.
"There is no mission in Iraq?"
The only mission in Iraq is to build 14 permanent military bases, build a $1/2 billion embassy (which is uninhabitable, due to shoddy construction and poisonous materials), lock down Iraqi oil and keep it off the market, and launch more illegal wars of aggression throughout the middle east.
"You need to inform the 160,000 troops that are there"
I wish somebody would, so they'd grab their weapons and walk away. Let the oligarchs fight their illegal wars for profit with their private armies, and let the American soldiers do what they're supposed to do. Guard the US against attack.
Clark, defensive war never succeeded. Many more people died when a major power goes on the defensive during a war. Yes, it will work for a little while, but it can only take you so far. Eventually, you have to attack. You have to bring the war to their home. You have to kill them. You have to go on the offensive. Retreating will not appease the enemy it will be the victory they need to fuel their own war effort. They will attack our interests and our allies, kill our citizens, and hurt us a lot more than they have now. Pulling out always caused more deaths than it saved. We pulled out of Somalia, and 200 Americans and hundreds of thousands of Somalis were killed, far more than before. We pulled out of Afghanistan, and 3000 Americans and a million Afghanis died. But that happened in countries that really did not matter. Leaving Iraq will leave a massive war in the heart of the Middle East, and thus it will threaten global economic and political stability. We will have to spend more money to keep our allies from being sucked into the war. We will have to spend more money to curtail Syrian and Iranian influence. We will have to spend more money yo keepm Israel safe. All hope of a peaceful Iraq will die will America's withdraw. It wont solve anything. We must stay and fight our enemies. Change the plan if we have to. Add more troops if we have to, but keep the troops there, and keep the war on the enemies territory.
If I can't put out the fire - I'm not going to stand around and complain. I'm going to leave it to someone else.
Really? So, we lost WWI and WWII then? Funny, I'd always heard differently.
Actually, what does NOT work is OFFENSIVE war. Remember what happened to Germany in both WWI and WWII? No, of course not. You think we lost those wars.
We've been trying "your" plan for nearly 6 years now. The results are that global terrorism has increased exponentially, al Qaeda has rebuilt, the Taliban and drug lords are retaking Afghanistan, our national treasury is bankrupt, thousands more Americans are dead, nearly 1 million Iraqis are dead, and, oh by the way, Saudi Arabia STILL continues to fund al Qaeda. Wonderful plan. Let's "stay the course."
" Clark is a no-it-all Ty... it's a waste to converse with him since he dismisses you out of hand."
The is the most common response I get whenever I present facts that the delusional bubble-encased bush worshippers cannot refute. Yes, by all means, attack the messenger when you cannot stand the facts. Just brush those ugly, harsh facts aside, and launch personal attacks against the person that offers them to you.
This is why you nut jobs are out of power in congress, and why you'll continue to lose seats. You're completely delusional and completely out of touch with reality. No wonder you love Joe Lieberman so much.
"What an absurd statement. Show me conservatives out in the street protesting like you lefties do for everything."
What an absurd statement. There was no reason for conservatives to take to the streets. We didn't have an illegal president destroying American democratic ideals and abusing his power, 24/7.
Clark, you Lefties DO protest everything. Here in Chicago, my office is right next to the Thompson Center where you nutty Lefties congregate daily. The causes are always extreme and the volume is permanently stuck on HIGH. It's pure stupidity.
We Conservatives don't march or protest because it looks silly, and has little effect. But I'm sure you already know that, you just don't have anywhere to put your emotion - so protesting, even though it's lame, has to suffice.
Bret : "There is no mission in Iraq?"
Clark : The only mission in Iraq is to build 14 permanent military bases, build a $1/2 billion embassy (which is uninhabitable, due to shoddy construction and poisonous materials), lock down Iraqi oil and keep it off the market, and launch more illegal wars of aggression throughout the middle east.
I'm FOR those bases and for the U.S. Embassy there, Clark! And so are a lot of people who've actually been to the Middle East and know they'd provide long term help for Iraq.
Bret : "You need to inform the 160,000 troops that are there"
Clark : I wish somebody would, so they'd grab their weapons and walk away. Let the oligarchs fight their illegal wars for profit with their private armies, and let the American soldiers do what they're supposed to do. Guard the US against attack.
Oligarchs? Private Armies?
Who exactly are you talking about? Do you know how nutty these continuous Conspiracy Theories sound? Your credibility suffers deeply when you say this kind of Tin-Foil hat wearing nonsense.
The troops are there for a reason, and although their mission has changed since 2003, they think it's a pretty good one. If you have doubts about that, try going to a VA hospital and talking to a few of the troops. I know you'd learn more than you want to.
Clark, why are you so negative on the troops?
Why do you Lefties loathe the military so much?
If you care about the US Constitution and the First Amendment you will defend everyone's right to free expression which includes protests.
The same question can be asked of you. Why do you hate the US Constitution so much, Bret?
Who exactly are you talking about? Do you know how nutty these continuous Conspiracy Theories sound? Your credibility suffers deeply when you say this kind of Tin-Foil hat wearing nonsense."
http://www.latimes.com/business/local/la-na-private4jul04,1,7340256.story?ctrack=1&cset=true
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/7/8/222024/0708
"Private contractors outnumber U.S. troops in Iraq"
http://www.latimes.com/business/local/la-na-private4jul04,1,7340256.story?ctrack=1&cset=true
"More than 180,000 civilians — including Americans, foreigners and Iraqis — are working in Iraq under U.S. contracts, according to State and Defense department figures obtained by the Los Angeles Times. "
No shit. Who do you think is going to rebuild the infrastructure? Where do you think all those billions of US dollars are going to. This is NOT a "Private Army"... but a MOONBAT would read this as there are hired fighters that outnumber US military. Just ain't so.
Thank GOD. Because of "we lefties protesting everything," we've seen desegregation, civil rights for blacks, environmental laws, an end to a previous illegal war, and the unseating of a previous illegal president. Oh, and the birth of a nation. Seems like a pretty good thing to me.
"We Conservatives don't march or protest because it looks silly
No. You CONservatives don't march or protest because you're cowards. It takes great courage to stand up to the establishment and speak truth to power.
"I'm FOR those bases and for the U.S. Embassy there, Clark!"
Gee. I'm shocked.
The architects of this illegal occupation are the elitists from PNAC.
Blackwater, CACI, and numerous other contractors currently in Iraq are private mercenary groups, for hire by anyone who's willing to pay the bill.
"The troops are there for a reason"
Of course they are. To make sure that the country remains destabilized, in order to continue the endless, protracted occupation. War is very profitable for the war profiteers. Haven't you heard?
"Clark, why are you so negative on the troops?
Why do you Lefties loathe the military so much?"
Yes, once again, by all means, put words in my mouth and attempt to assassinate my character with them.
How about this?
Why do YOU bush worshipping fools loathe the military so much that you WANT them to stay in a winless, pointless occupation, to be slaughtered en masse for eternity? Why are YOU so negative on the troops?
Btw, your glorious "support-the-troops" party just blocked passage of a bill that would've supported the troops, remember?
MOONBAT ALERT!!!
Why do you morons insist upon making this so damn easy?
Read and learn, sparky. You can thank me later for shoveling away some of the bullshit that's clouded your shriveled little noodle.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/warriors/view/
http://www.libertysecurity.org/article127.html
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5976.htm
Well, whadya know? Clark and Ron were right AGAIN! You'd think there'd come a point where you muddled fools would figure this out. We don't make shit up like you do. We will ALWAYS be able to make you look like idiots, because you make shit up and we don't.
Wrong. It would have forced a timeline and it would have undermined Presidential powers.... and we didn't have to march in the streets to defeat it. Good stuff... we win, you lose.
This is from your link to Frontline: "There are as many as 100,000 civilian contractors and approximately 20,000 private security forces."
Let's call the 20,000 private security forces an army. Fine. Compare that number to US Military and it is a small fraction. Get it? You guys are trying to say a "Private Army" outnumbers US Military. It is NOT true. Frontline does say "private military contractors comprise the second largest "force" in Iraq, far outnumbering all non-U.S. forces combined."
This is why you guys all complain about having poor jobs and problems with the economy and such... it's because you don't pay attention to detail.
That is out of date, entirely, it is before the freedom of information act released Centcom census was released. According to the LA Times there are over 180,000 contract workers there compared to 160,000 troops,and security forces are said not to have been counted anywhere near fully, in that assessment. Whatever you wish to say about it, there is at least a force of 30,000 reported, just in security forces, and many of the others are in support of troops, classically a military job. Gee, I don't remember anyone but you saying the security forces outnumbered military forces, moonbat alert is not what I would call it, but if you want to alert your fellow moonbats, go ahead. The point is, to me, there is a pretty substantial private force, that encompasses all but specialized units such as armored units, etc., but all the abilities of an Army, and that is including support forces. That may not be remarkable to you, but I'm trying to think when a private force such as this has ever been assembled before, and I confess I am coming up empty.
Thank GOD. Because of "we lefties protesting everything," we've seen desegregation, civil rights for blacks, environmental laws, an end to a previous illegal war, and the unseating of a previous illegal president. Oh, and the birth of a nation. Seems like a pretty good thing to me.
We also see riots like what happened at the 1968 Chicago Democratic convention. Or the violence that broke out last year here in Chicago after 'The World Can't Wait' Left Wing rally. Or the arrests at the Trident nuclear sub base in Washington state in '98. Or what about the rioting in Seattle after the WTO conference in 1999, or the 2007 WTO rioting and mayhem? Or……………oh, you get the picture, I'm sure. Left Wingers, when frustrated beyond their limit, resort to violence.
Sad, but true.
"No. You CONservatives don't march or protest because you're cowards. It takes great courage to stand up to the establishment and speak truth to power."
I couldn't disagree with you more. We have the Futility Button that you Lefties lack. We know that there are much more effective ways to get your point across. Keep picketing, Clark, and we'll keep laughing at you.
Bret : ""The troops are there for a reason"
Clark : "Of course they are. To make sure that the country remains destabilized, in order to continue the endless, protracted occupation. War is very profitable for the war profiteers. Haven't you heard?"
Clark, the troops are there to give the diplomatic solution a little time to iron out Sunni and Shi'a (and Kurdish) differences. Security is the key to giving them the time to do that.
Bret : ""Clark, why are you so negative on the troops?
Bret again : Why do you Lefties loathe the military so much?"
Clark : Yes, once again, by all means, put words in my mouth and attempt to assassinate my character with them."
I can only go by what you say online, Clark. It's easy to sit here and watch you assassinate your own character. I just simply chronicle it. When I show you what you said, you actually seem angry. Keep talking, Clark, and I'll keep listening and commenting.
I can't recall you saying one single good thing about the troops in Iraq. Maybe if you did that occasionally, I wouldn't call you on it. I see that kind of omission a lot from you Lefties.
" Btw, your glorious "support-the-troops" party just blocked passage of a bill that would've supported the troops, remember?"
Clark, as I read it, artificial timelines were included in that bill. Why not just pass a clean bill without timelines, since you know that will get vetoed? This bill has no chance and you know it.
Clark, WWI and WWII were offensive wars on the part of the US, unless you call D-Day, the invasion of North Africa, the invasion of Italy and Scilly, and the recapturing of the Pacific defensive measures. Defensive war does not work! The Brits learned that in the Pacific! The French learned that! The Germans learned that! The Japanese learned that! Defensive war does not work. We tried to stay on the defence to stay out of wars, but that did not work. The Soviets tried to stay on the defence during the invasion, and that failed. We tried to stay on the defensive b efore 9-11, and our enemies still came after us, attacked us, and killed our citizens. The only way to destroy your enemies and prevent them from attacking you is to go after them and kill them! Retreating never worked, and it never will work.
That's what I said. It was you, mr. delusional moonbat, who claimed that there was no such thing. Welcome to reality land.
"Clark, WWI and WWII were offensive wars on the part of the US"
Can't you people even be honest about such things as obvious as this? We entered WWI after Germany sank the Lusitania, and WWII after Japan attacked us and Germany declared war on us. Let's try to pretend that we can be a little bit honest, at least about the really obvious things, ok? You're being every bit as absurd as bubble-boy Donnie.
"Because the republicruds DO NOT SUPPORT THE TROOP"
I'm truly amazed that somehow the Lefties in this country have embraced the troops, but hate their mission. It's the first time in history I can recall this sneaky tactic. I guess you guys learned your lesson from the horrible treatment you heaped on the soldiers returning from Vietnam.
However, those of us who know better, see right through you.
That's what I said. It was you, mr. delusional moonbat, who claimed that there was no such thing. Welcome to reality land. "
I NEVER SAID THAT. Please show me the quote.
to work when the signs are already not promising.
Here's a link:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/sfgate/detail?blogid=14&entry_id=18486
Note in the article that the top two Republicans on Iraq policy are going to present a proposal to the President to change course in Iraq.
The longer the Republicans stall on this, the longer they will continue to shoot themselves in the foot, and further harm their chances of gaining the Presidency in 2008.
They need to come to their senses now and convince the President to change course in Iraq.
Those were terms set by Democrats. I can see you're another lib who knows not what you speak about.
And the rest of the Allied forces were supposed to be grateful that you finally came to the party? WW2 may have been shortened had you opposed a Nazi regime as vehemently as subsequent opposition to left wing regimes.
I guess this is where I have to remind you, once again, that Iraq had done NOTHING to us whatsoever, and that our presence there has created MORE hatred and MORE enemies. How many human beings should we kill? Would another million make us "safe?" How about a cool billion? Why don't we just murder everybody on the planet, except you and me? Wait...you might turn into a terrorist, too. I guess the only way for me to be utterly safe is to kill every living human except me. Then, I'll probably slip and bang my head in the bathtub. Maybe, we should kill all bathtubs as well. And, while we're at it, kill all cars, cigarettes, and alcohol. I think we'd better also kill the corporations that are poisoning our environment and feeding us poisonous food. And, don't forget lightning. We'd better kill that, too, since it also poses a threat.
Just think about your ridiculous statements for a moment, and then tell me how many people YOU think we will have to murder, at what cost, in order to make you feel all warm and snuggly for the rest of your life? We've spent well over $400 billion already, in order to murder nearly 1,000,000 people in Iraq. In doing so, we have, by our own intelligence sources, created MORE enemies and strengthened al Qaeda, which would seem to indicate, by your "logic," that we need to spend more and kill more.
It's currently costing us approximately $420,000 to murder each Iraqi. If spending that much is not producing anything but negative results, what amount would YOU recommend spending, in order to "win?"
And, since our intelligence sources are now saying that al Qaeda is entering this country, shouldn't we also begin murdering people here, too? If we find a cell in NYC, for instance, wouldn't it make sense to bomb that entire city flat, in order to make sure that we're "safe?"
And, what of allowing 3,000 illegal aliens to pour through our southern border every day? Is that making us "safe?"
The simple fact, that you people seem either unwilling or incapable of comprehending, is that endless murder will NOT make us safer. It will make us LESS safe, and in the meantime, will continue to shackle future generations with insurmountable debt. Wars of aggression, particularly against tactics, are a loser proposition, initiated and supported by losers.
Which brings up another obvious point; waging "war" against terrorism is like waging war against guilt or sadness. It is NOT an "enemy," it is a TACTIC. We will NEVER, EVER kill our way free of terrorism. This entire thing is a charade. Terrorism is the Communism of the 21st century. We now not only have a military industrial complex, but we also have a terrorist industrial complex. Neither one was worthy of being handed the keys to our democracy, yet both have received them.
Start thinking about this for a change. Your logic makes no sense, your illegal wars of aggression are failed policy, and your "war on terror" is a completely bogus waste of money. You want to minimize terrorism? You do it by going after the sources, not creating new sources. You work with the global community to shut down schools that teach this hated, eliminate safe havens for terrorists, help societies create viable economies that make them less vulnerable to radical Islam, NOT uncover the names of critical CIA operatives, use the intelligence resources of the world, arrest AND CHARGE individuals that you can prove are up to no good, and, if necessary, use spec ops forces to surgically strike camps.
We've tried your way. It's failed miserably. It will only continue to fail as long as we proceed on this failed course. We will NEVER murder enough people to end the threat of terrorism. Period. We have proven this beyond any shadow of doubt.
"It's currently costing us approximately $420,000 to murder each Iraqi. If spending that much is not producing anything but negative results, what amount would YOU recommend spending, in order to "win?" "
That is, if you consider that it is the U.S. military killing each dead Iraqi. But of course, we all know that's not what's happening, don't we Clark?
"Which brings up another obvious point; waging "war" against terrorism is like waging war against guilt or sadness."
Or Poverty, which you already tried........and failed at.
"You work with the global community to shut down schools that teach this hated, eliminate safe havens for terrorists, help societies create viable economies that make them less vulnerable to radical Islam"
Are you talking about shutting down the madrassas, Clark? Wouldn't that be a violation of their First Amendment rights?
Elimination of terrorist havens........you mean like we did with the Taliban in Afghanistan?
Maybe we should try to create viable economies in the Middle East. Would that entail setting up a Democracy or a dictatorship, Clark? Which are we trying to do right now in Afghanistan and Iraq? You know the answer - it's been in all the papers.
I do find it amazing as Bret addressed that the Democrats and all those who oppose the war now support the troops, but not the cause because why??? Think you know the answer to that question.
According to reports I have read, the reason why the bill was block was because of timelines/benchmarks as both Bret and Don H wrote, which obviously if you read any other reports than that liberal crap you would have known this to be the facts.
Any excessive death in Iraq since 3/19/03 is OUR RESPONSIBILITY. Were it not for our presence there, there would not be excessive deaths and maimings.
"
Or Poverty, which you already tried........and failed at."
Actually, that's a flat lie. Millions were saved from poverty as a direct result of SS. Poverty DECREASED under Clinton's progressive tax economy. Poverty has INCREASED under REGRESSIVE neocon economics plans. Poverty has increased nearly every year since Bush stole office. Looks like it's YOUR plan that has failed.
"Are you talking about shutting down the madrassas, Clark?"
I'm talking about shutting down the instruments of hate. If you wish to call them "madrasses," so be it. Saudi Arabia continues to teach their children how to hate America. We simply cannot allow this from our so-called allies. Do you LIKE the fact that they're doing this?
"Wouldn't that be a violation of their First Amendment rights? "
Please, feel free to name one school in this nation that teaches children how to hate America.
"Elimination of terrorist havens........you mean like we did with the Taliban in Afghanistan?"
I guess the "liberal media" forgot to tell you that they've managed to creep back into power in many parts of Afghanistan, so no, NOT like we did with the Taliban in Afghanistan, thank you very much.
"Maybe we should try to create viable economies in the Middle East."
No shit. Hopefully, something other than opium production, which Booshie boy seems to have excelled at.
"Would that entail setting up a Democracy or a dictatorship, Clark? "
Undoubtedly a dictatorship. We haven't set up a democratic nation since the end of WWII.
"Which are we trying to do right now in Afghanistan and Iraq? "
Dictatorship, of course. We cannot allow democracy to flourish anywhere, because it doesn't serve the will of the international bankers. I guess your "liberal media" forgot to tell you that the person serving as "president" in Iraq was NOT elected by the people, nor was the former oil industry ambassador in Afghanistan. Check your facts. It hasn't been in ALL the papers, however, so you're going to have to do some research. For some odd reason, the "liberal media" just seems to keep hiding things from us.
" Clark, you sound like another Michael Moore. "
THANK YOU!!!! That's the nicest, kindest thing anyone has said to me for a LONG TIME! I could just hug you!
"he say something to the effect that he loves the government and they use to be good at running things"
He's absolutely correct. This has been proven in every other industrialized nation in the world, and is proven here with Medicare. Private companies make great widgets. They suck at managing the public infrastructure. Have you forgotten what ENRON did to the energy industry?
"he made a statement in reference to FDR and how the government defeated the Germans and Japanese in 4 years, where today they cannot secure a few blocks in Baghdad in 4 years. Stupid liberal idiot!"
How is a factual statement "stupid?" Do you not realize that what he stated are facts? Is he a "stupid idiot" because he speaks the truth, or because he doesn't speak the truth that YOU want to hear?
"I do find it amazing as Bret addressed that the Democrats and all those who oppose the war now support the troops, but not the cause because why??"
We always have supported the troops, which is why we opposed this illegal, unnecessary occupation long before it even started. We do NOT belong in Iraq. It had NOTHING TO DO WITH 9/11, nor AL QAEDA. Not only that, but by ignoring the REAL threat, we have actually made al Qaeda stronger. Why do you people want our enemies to be stronger?
"According to reports I have read, the reason why the bill was block was because of timelines/benchmark"
The American public WANTS a timeline, and benchmarks. You people are now firmly in the radical, extreme, fringe minority. We don't WANT YOUR ILLEGAL OCCUPATION ANYMORE. Got it? Democrats are TRYING to do the will of the people, AND support the soldiers at the same time. Why do you hate the soldiers and the majority of the people so?
Why do you WANT us to be less safe? Do you WANT to see us attacked again? Of course you do, because that's the ONLY hope that your failed, collapsed political party has at this point. With another deadly attack, you hope, the masses will forget about the endless, illegal occupation of Iraq. How sad, that an entire political party is reduced to hoping and praying for another deadly attack against America. No WONDER you people LOVE this disaster in Iraq. Not only do you get to see more and more dead Americans every day, but you'll no doubt get your prayer of another attack in the US as a result of our illegal occupation of Iraq.
No, it is not. It's completely factual. The bill was to support the troops, by allowing them time off to be home with their families, instead of ramming them right back into hell again. Of COURSE, you wouldn't understand that, because you don't support the troops. Republicons never have and never will.
I don't support the troops? Now you have me laughing.
15 years ago, I was over there myself. I have family over there right now, in Baghdad. But even they were against this bill that included artificial timelines. This was just another backdoor method of trying to force the President's hand.
Clark, since when has the Left been pro-military?
You guys have hated us since Vietnam. Now you're wrapping yourselves in the flag? LOL. Not likely.
It ain't gonna work anymore bubba , the American people are waking up.
Death to the republiCON party and RIP.
You're gonna be sorry when donnyjeffymarkbretboy vote for a Republican President in 2008 ;) LOL.
The day you guys like the military is the day Cindy Sheehan is voted Conservative of the week.
I'm just amused that you can try to act like you like the troops, when it is so clear that you don't. This article, and your comment, is a nice example of that behavior.
Create a pretense for war ("Gulf of Tonkin incident" for Vietnam, 9/11 for Iraq), and send the troops into a quagmire with their hands tied behind their back.
The agenda is not to win the war, but rather to sustain it. They did the same exact thing in Vietnam, putting absurd restrictions on the rules of engagement for our boys, prolonging the conflict, and thus the profits to the shadow government's central banking cartel and their cronies in the M/I Complex.
Its all a scam. People need to learn the real history of this country since the early 20th Century. We the People are no longer in control of our government. The US Coinstitution is essentially a dead letter. It turns out Senator McCarthy was right; the USA has been subverted by Communists. They have brainwashed three entire generations now, by controlling our mass media and what our children learn in public schools. People no longer believe in self-government, or even know what its all about. People have no awareness of the true nature of the US Constitution, or from where are rights are derived, and what the Constitutional limitations on government are supposed to be.
People need to unlearn what they've been spoonfed by the CFR-controlled media.
We are not in control. The elitist shadow government controls everything; our government, our economy, our media, what we eat and drink, what our kids are taught in school, you name it.
Unless a miracle happens (like Ron Paul winning the presidency next year), we will all have RFID-chipped "national ID" cards (ready for "papers please"?), and eventually WE will be microchipped. The North American Union will take effect in 2010, and we will live under an unelected "regional" government. The US Constitution will be a novelty, ifthat. Our rights and liberties will no longer be derived from God, they will be granted by the state, and thus subject to be revoked by the state.
This is NOT some fantastic "conspiracy theory," it is reality; and you people need to start learning the truth REAL QUICK if we are to have any hope of diverting any of this.
Here's a video, of G. Edward Griffin's interview with a Soviet KGB defector: "Just Doing His Job".
Note the former Soviet propaganda expert describe how the propaganda in the CFR media's brainwashing of Americans has made it so that someone can present overwhelming authentic evidence of reality to the brainwashed Americans, and they would still deny or find a way to disregard what is right in front of their face.
The defector describes the gradual process of how those in the shadow government have subverted the US Constitution, and lead Americans to shed the uniquely American ideals that made this country great.
But I'm wondering how long this has been going on.
Since Johnson? Nixon?
I know the present shadow government is run by Dick Cheney.
Maybe it's time to re-read '1984'.
Anyways, our country is not brainwashed, so 'they' have a long way to go to get through the other three steps. Lastly, there is no 'they' -- that's just your imagination. 'They' benefit far more greatly with our free markets, so any intelligent person would grasp this.