Woolsey is among the Democrats in Congress who are hoping to control the power of the purse in 2007 to force an end to the war. Woolsey and some of her colleagues note that Congress helped force the end of Vietnam War by refusing to pay for it."
http://www.hillnews.com/thehill/export/TheHill/News/Frontpage/092606/iraqfunding.html
Reagan pulled out of Lebanon after the embassy bombing.
Clinton pulled out of Rwanda after "Blackdown Down".
"AH! Kill a few Americans and they quit and go home! Get 'em, boys!"
So we get the first WTC bombing, the USS Cole, then the 2nd WTC bombing.
So when do these Americans intend to redicover the backbone their grandfathers had? When NYC goes up in a mushroom cloud? Or is made uninhabitable by a dirty bomb?
You blew it again, you do-gooder liberals.
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it is rumsfled (i made a typo but i think i like it that way) and bush were the ones who didn't want to put more troops in. the generals have been asking for it.
"But when pressed on how he could stop the war even if Democrats control the House during the last years of President Bush's second term, Rangel paused before saying, "You've got to be able to pay for the war, don't you?"
Rangel's views on funding the war are shared by many of his colleagues – especially within the 73-member Out of Iraq Caucus.
Some Democratic legislators want to halt funding for the war immediately, while others say they would allocate money for activities such as reconstruction, setting up international security forces, and the ultimate withdrawal of U.S. troops."
Charlie wants to cut funding. He's got at least 73 Dems behind him.
"Woolsey and some of her colleagues note that Congress helped force the end of Vietnam War by refusing to pay for it."
"House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) and other Democrats have called for a reduction in troops to begin no later than the end of 2006, but as Speaker, she could have significant power over troop levels in 2007."
"The Out of Iraq Caucus represents less than 40 percent of Democrats in the House. However, the group consists of many senior lawmakers, including a one Democratic leader, Rep. John Larson (D-Conn.), eight who are in line to chair panels, the next head of the Congressional Black Caucus, Rep. Carolyn Kilpatrick (D-Mich.), and eight appropriators.
Rep. John Murtha (D-Pa.), the ranking member of the Appropriations defense subcommittee and the most outspoken Democrat on withdrawing from Iraq, has said he will mount a bid for majority leader should Democrats win the House in November. His bill to redeploy forces from Iraq has 105 cosponsors."
Reid of Nevada will be majority leader. But he has 105 members behind him to pull out.
"Abercrombie stressed that Democrats are not going to sever funding for the troops. Cutting off funding is "easy to say and another thing to do," according to Abercrombie"
That's your one hope: The Dems realize that cutting off funding to troops in the field is suicide. Which changes not a thing I said. Once again the Islamofascists will see us turn tail and run.
"Indications are there are other options, and the Democrats, the leadership, are committed to finding them and working with Republicans to insure they are followed through."
WHAT "other options"? The world wants to know. I know some people on this site who want to know. Some would indoubtedly surprise you.
"Stay the course was lunacy, and cut and run is also."
GIMME A BREAK! "Stay the course" meant stay until there is a stable democracy able to defend itself. "Cut and run" is how we got here. NOW what do you propose?
And cut and run is not how we got here. How we got here was lies, mismanagement and total incompetence from the Bush administration. That, my fine conservative friend, is how we got here.
http://www.iraqrevenuewatch.org/reports/052706.pdf
Page 16 of that document.
The Sunnis have SOME oil. but not a lot.
The second factor you have to consider is Iran. The Shiites in the south might go willingly into Iran; if not, they could be conquered fairly easily by Iran. Then moving north and swallowing the other 2 states is child's play. NOW we have a SUPER regional ppower in the ME and its stability is seriosly threatened.
A US or NATO guarantee of sovereignty might stop Iranian conquest. But suppose the southern Shiites go into Iran willingly? Do we imvade again to stop them?
Jihadists? Another possibility is Iraq run by jihadists and become a terror state. We are a prime target. You had best plan on going back with much more force if that happens.
"Stay the Course and Cut and Run are more ideas rather than actual plans, at least you would hope."
You might ope that, but I don't believe it. Clearly some of the Dems want to cut and run, in spite of the fact that that very likely got us into this mess. And "Stay the course" was never understood to mean permanent occupation. It was shortjand for "Stay until things are calm enough that the Iraqi army and police can keep order."
"There are more than enough moderate Dems to make sure Iraq is not just left hanging in the breeze."
Nancy Pelosi's district is about 50 moles from me. Barbara Boxer is a Senator from this state. You're going to have a hard time convincing me of that. I've seen quite enough far left nutballs to have reason for skepticism.
While we're at it, the People's Republics of San Francisco, Berkeley, Santa Cruz, and Santa Monica are in this state.
"A new approach is necessary, Iraq has been a mess for too long. Hopefully Gates can change the direction..."
Hopefully.
Bush was a fool for not "resigning" Rumsfield months ago and avoiding this disaster.
One thing you have to give him credit for and that's stubborness. :-)
Cut and run IS how we got here. Now some of the blame lies with Republicans. Reagan cut and ran in Lebanon. Then Slick Willie cut and ran in Rwanda.
You can hardly blame the Islamofascists for coming to the conclusion that if they killed a few Americans, they'd win.
BTW, what DO you think of a religion that claims a portion of the land mass of the earth as its and its alone? Ever hear of the Islamic Umma?
Splitting the country won't work even if the Iraqis are dumb enough to fall for it. Then we would really be in the middle of a mess.
Did any one notice that Saqddam and other Baathist leaders have called for an end to sectarian violence? Think they are angling for a commutation of his death sentence?
So you're nut jobs and nothing reasonable is going to get through. NO we most definitely got HERE, as in stuck in IRAQ, by gross mismanagement, lies, and incompetence by the Bush administration, and the proof is the firing of Rumsfeld. If he would have listened to the head of the joint chiefs, we would have gone in with enough men to insure the peace, and most of our guys would have been home long ago. Why is it that egotistical politicians continually think they know how to fight wars and battles better than seasoned military men. He broke the Powell doctrine, and for that, we are still "Stuck in Iraq" as the saying goes.
Republicans have controlled all branches of the government for the last 6 years, and did nothing but spend money, and steal our rights, and sell their souls. And blamed everything on the Democrats.
Now they are going to continue to blame everything on the Democrats.
Now they are going to continue to blame everything on the Democrats.
Now they are going to continue to blame everything on the Democrats.
Now they are going to continue to blame everything on the Democrats.
Now they are going to continue to blame everything on the Democrats.
Now they are going to continue to blame everything on the Democrats.
Are you Republicans really afraid?
Nanci, "Splitting the country" I think The Republican Party, Mr. Rove and Mr Decider Divider, have done a fine job.
As for not being split, which Democrat are you going to go hug today?
And on what do you base that assessment? That Joe Biden suggested it? What are your reasons, run it down.
"BTW, what DO you think of a religion that claims a portion of the land mass of the earth as its and its alone? Ever hear of the Islamic Umma?"
Well, I am a Christian, so I can't run the faith down that much, but it was pretty stupid of the pope to send all those Crusaders to save our holy land and reclaim it for the church. Yeah, I guess that's what I think of a religion that claims a portion of a land mass as it's own, pretty dumb. Of course they have the Vatican in Italy, too. But I would say this, a religion that has hundreds of years of history there, has more claim than an overseas country that just wants the land for the oil.
You Islamofascist conspiracy nuts are as bad as the ones that think Bush blew up the towers. Jihadists are not examples of main stream muslims, but the longer we screw with their affairs, the more of them start to wonder why not?
Cena, can we stop with the far lefts 'they are stealing our rights' scare tactic, the election is over...thank you
If you look through my articles you will find I have advocated the Biden plan for a long time. If Bush had tried to implement it, I would have been the first one to applaud, because it seems to be the only one with a chance in hell of succeeding. Otherwise, the best you can hope for, even if we stabilize the country, is a Shiite theocracy, in the end.
Sheeesh!
I absolutely plan on it, and have been practising, but I just can't seem to get the snarl into it I know is possible.
But why, exactly, do you think it is our choice and that Maliki would go along with it? If it comes out of his mouth, then let them do it but since we are trying to foster a stable government, imposing something like this is counter-productive even if it wasn't out of our hands.
Cena, the only country I was talking about splitting was Iraq. Read the comments.
No one wants to say the C word, but that's what we have, a civil war. Sectarian violence is rampant. The oil wealth would be shared, for the fourth time, and the plain facts are that no Sunni is going to submit to Shiite rule, and the Shiites and the Kurds will never accept Sunni rule, ever again, so, You give them each a fairly loose autonomous state, under a loose confederacy, that provides for central government to oversee an army to defend Iraq's borders, etc. They each have a strong state government that pretty much can make it's own laws, etc. and govern itself, but subservient to the federal, for self defense, etc. If you want to take a look at the Biden plan itself go:
http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.jsp?articleId=281474976805142
I don't plan on doing anything, I'm just telling you this is supposed to be one thing baker and his boys are looking at, and that the Dems have already looked at. I know you'd rather conquer the holy land, and kill all Muslims, but they haven't been looking at that, that I know of. I assume there are some advantages for the Shiites, too, such as not being Iran's weak little sister. It remains to be seen what can be done. Did you read the whole plan? If so, you know as much as I do. It sure beats the hell out of staying there for the next twenty years, because the Iraqis show no sign of getting troops not to disappear at the least sign of having to fight. And stop emailing me, if I want to read your comments, I'll come back and read them.
"I know you'd rather conquer the holy land, and kill all Muslims"
Thanks for your amusing guess, but your dead wrong. Most of them are fine people who would like to make a living, raise their families, and be left alone. I've known many and worked for a few with no problems. Those that wish to kill Americans take their chances, however.
I was in Turkey this spring. It is 95% Muslim and we met hundreds of Muslims. We had no problems with them. We rented a car and drove. Numerous times in coming into a new city, we had no idea how to find our hotel. We pulled up beside a car stopped at light and asked directions. Many times the driver of the other car voluntarily went out of his way to LEAD us to the hotel. Now why would you be pissed about that? In general, we found the Turks to be polite and hospitable.
About 10 years ago, I spent several weeks in Saudi Arabia on business. As things developed, I came to trust the Saudis more than my own American management. The Saudis simply wanted an honest, clear deal, which is much more than can be said of the trickery at the American end.
"I assume there are some advantages for the Shiites, too, such as not being Iran's weak little sister."
I'm sure the Shiites just love the Sunnis. Do you thinkthey's rather unite with the Sunnis who will kill them or the Iranian Shiites who won't?
"It sure beats the hell out of staying there for the next twenty years"
Would you care to cite a source for your WAG?
"And stop emailing me, if I want to read your comments, I'll come back and read them."
And I'll do as I please. You are free to stop posting here.
"Thanks for your amusing guess, but your dead wrong. Most of them are fine people who would like to make a living, raise their families, and be left alone. I've known many and worked for a few with no problems. Those that wish to kill Americans take their chances, however."
I already knew this, but you'd never know you knew it from your previous venomous posts.
"I'm sure the Shiites just love the Sunnis. Do you thinkthey's rather unite with the Sunnis who will kill them or the Iranian Shiites who won't?"
So what's your point? The government being peddled now would put the Sunni's and Kurds completely under their thumb, because they are by far the majority, and they'll end up united with Iran, anyway, because they are a very religious people, and their religious leaders are subordinate to the Iranian ayatollahs.
"It sure beats the hell out of staying there for the next twenty years"
Would you care to cite a source for your WAG?"
My WAG comes from the fact that we seem to be regressing, rather than progressing right now, and yes, it is a WAG out of sheer frustration with the lousy policy we've followed so far.
"And I'll do as I please. You are free to stop posting here."
And I'll do as I please, and your email is now blocked, and I obviously really respect your suggestion as to where I can post. When you purchase gather and can dictate that, let me know, and I'll go to a less loony tunes board.
I'd suggest a crazier one. You'd fit in better. And, as moderator of this thread, I CAN stop you from posting here. Ever hear of an "invitation only" thread? I need only edit the properties of the thread and issue invitations to all posters but you.
I defy you produce a post from me attacking all Muslims. Take as long as necessary. You'll never find it.
Oh, the ass is just below your tail, but seems to extend all the way to your snout.
Your comments about the Shiites sure do make your "solution" look credible, don't they?
As I thought, a WAG. No basis to back it.
Islamofascists are NOT all Muslims. They are an extreme fringe.
Umma? The Jews were on part of that land (outside of Israel) long before the Muslims. Millenia ealier. Why isn't that part theirs? The Christians were through most of it too before the Muslims. Much of North africa, the ME, and Turkey were Christian before they were Muslim. The original capital of the Eastern Roman Empire was Constantinople, now Istanbul. When the Emperor Constantine converted to Christianity, it became Christian land. Several hundred years later, the Muslims took it. They got as far as Vienna. Why isn't Austria part of the Umma.
The argument is ridiculous.
"The government being peddled now would put the Sunni's and Kurds completely under their thumb, because they are by far the majority, and they'll end up united with Iran, anyway"
Isn't this what democracy is? The majority rules? Isn't that what you just did in the Congress? Is it OK if Bush simply ignores the new Congress?
But if you're smart and want a democracy that is stable and will last, you make certain citizen rights out of reach of the majority. You are born with them; a majority vote can't take them away.
It would be a lot easier if someone quit emailing with their arguments, now wouldn't it?
"Islamofascists are NOT all Muslims. They are an extreme fringe."
My point exactly.
"Umma? The Jews were on part of that land (outside of Israel) long before the Muslims. Millenia ealier. Why isn't that part theirs? The Christians were through most of it too before the Muslims. Much of North africa, the ME, and Turkey were Christian before they were Muslim. The original capital of the Eastern Roman Empire was Constantinople, now Istanbul. When the Emperor Constantine converted to Christianity, it became Christian land. Several hundred years later, the Muslims took it. They got as far as Vienna. Why isn't Austria part of the Umma.
The argument is ridiculous."
What argument?
"Isn't this what democracy is? The majority rules? Isn't that what you just did in the Congress? Is it OK if Bush simply ignores the new Congress?
But if you're smart and want a democracy that is stable and will last, you make certain citizen rights out of reach of the majority. You are born with them; a majority vote can't take them away."
My point is that this isn't what Bush wanted, or what he was selling, It was a government that was friendly to us. He grossly miscalculated on that, as well as a lot of other things, because he didn't understand the religious ties they have with Iran. There is no reason to assume a Shiite dominated government would, or would even be inclined to be, friendly to us, once they are stable. If, though, they are merely a third of the equal states, we might have better influence over Iraq than Iran.
It would be a lot easier if someone quit emailing with their arguments, now wouldn't it? ///
Did I email my previous post to my previous post to you? Yes or no?
Didn't you in a post previous to that say you had blocked me? Now, I don't whether you did or not; I didn't test it. So were you lying?
/// "Islamofascists are NOT all Muslims. They are an extreme fringe."
My point exactly. ///
Read my posts again. Say about 4 up. Try to understand what was said this time.
/// "Umma? The Jews were on part of that land (outside of Israel) long before the Muslims. Millenia ealier. Why isn't that part theirs? The Christians were through most of it too before the Muslims. Much of North africa, the ME, and Turkey were Christian before they were Muslim. The original capital of the Eastern Roman Empire was Constantinople, now Istanbul. When the Emperor Constantine converted to Christianity, it became Christian land. Several hundred years later, the Muslims took it. They got as far as Vienna. Why isn't Austria part of the Umma.
The argument is ridiculous."
What argument? ///
Strain your brain and figure it out.
/// "Isn't this what democracy is? The majority rules? Isn't that what you just did in the Congress? Is it OK if Bush simply ignores the new Congress?
But if you're smart and want a democracy that is stable and will last, you make certain citizen rights out of reach of the majority. You are born with them; a majority vote can't take them away."
My point is that this isn't what Bush wanted, or what he was selling, It was a government that was friendly to us. ///
He did? Care to document that?
/// He grossly miscalculated on that, as well as a lot of other things, because he didn't understand the religious ties they have with Iran. There is no reason to assume a Shiite dominated government would, or would even be inclined to be, friendly to us, once they are stable. If, though, they are merely a third of the equal states, we might have better influence over Iraq than Iran. ///
Hmmm. Iran used to be quite friendly to the US.
If the Shiia area is one of 3 autonomous regions that are part of a unified Iraq, it might have a chance. As an indepemndent state, I wouldn't give it 5 years before absorption by Iran. And the rest of Iraq would likely fall to Iran within another 5 years. (These are WAGs in your terminology.) And there will still be the problem of division of oil revenues. That will very likely be the rock the whole scheme founders on.
And exactly how do you intend to bring that about? At gunpoint? THEY wrote their constitution and that's not in it.
"the inspectors had already told him they didn't think he had WMDs"
You DO know, don't you, that Clinton and his administration said he DID, right? And Clinton said he did as late as 2004?
"he wanted Iraq"
He did? I assume you're prepared to prove that.
Your igonorance is only superceeded by the Dems leadership and you are truely missing huge chunks of ME history and Islamic sects.
but it was pretty stupid of the pope to send all those Crusaders to save our holy land and reclaim it for the church. Yeah, I guess that's what I think of a religion that claims a portion of a land mass as it's own, pretty dumb.
The Crusades were simply a taking back of contries that had been ravaged by Islam. They hoped it would be stopped or they would be content to take what they had, but it was realized that Europe was next. See ANY map of the area. You're probably so Islamic indoctrinated that you believe it was the Islamic Golden Era ( where whatever wasn't destroyed was 'absorbed' and claimed as there own).
You're so well thought out Bidden Plan:
STUPID, STUPID, STUPID!
1) The Kurds move to establish ties to Turkey. YOU really don't want to see that.
2) MORE 'borders' to control. It Guarantees 'turf-wars' for many years to come.
Not to mention about 25 more reasons to NOT do it as any concept of a Bagdad DC is a joke.
Read a little about the Ottoman Empire oh Islamic Guru.
We conqured two countries in 30 days with about 250,000 troops and FEW casualties! GOOD PLAN.
Put more troops in... Stupid again. How do you supply bullets and beans to a mass of troops protecting 3 border regions inside the Iraqi Borders? More targets. Finance how, you're already bitchhing about the cost.
Right now the supply chain is about 5:1 "Jane, you ignorant slut"!
Stupid concept about WMD! It was the Chemical and Biological Weapons!
(Who sent the Antrax)? There was only about 30 TONS unaccouted for in Iraq and Ricin (look that one up sweetie, it's a tasty Saddam treat).
I told you before to read the CIA and UN (Blix) Reports with your own lying eyes, not some ignorant Know-It-All that agreed with it then and now pleads having been LIED to- lazy, incompentant, stupid (&(*^&*%%*& Democrat Leaders my ass.
Saddam had the French and Russians in his pocket with BILLIONS IN OIL_FOR_FOOD Program. We knew the Security Council was moving to LIFT sanctions and Saddam had purchased Duel-Purpose equipment and other stuff illegally on the International market even though banned to possess, "Jane, you IGNORANT slut!"
He was ready and able to begin reproducing WMD (CW and BW) in mass quanities within weeks. The Nuke program was in Sudan, fool. WE KNOW because of HIS documents captured and translated.
See his possible involvement in the OKC bombing - the third man never found.
Read of discussions with Saddam's cabinet about how easy it would be to plant a CW or BW or Nuke in DC and/or NY and no one would be able to blame it on any one country if "DONE RIGHT."
As I said, your ignorance is only surpassed by the Democratic "Leadership" (we'll see it THAT ever materilizes)!
We have been over and over and you are deaf, dumb and blind and resent the idea that Bush knows much more than you and has more foresight than a Party re-election. And makes no apology for taking action inspite of the FRENCH complaints.
Facts are foreign for you if not served up in a 45 sec. blurb or posted on MoveOn.org, but it is a little beyond the focus of Soros hating Bush!
I think all the disgust with Rumsfeld was simply because he did not back down. They were unable to break him right up until the last. I don't see much change ahead. It is just the Democrats now who are in the bashing ring.
As I said in the comment section on another site, stop and smell the roses, because it won't be long before we start smelling gun powder. Sad but true.
"She and her allies have also taken the view that Mr. Murtha's scrapes regarding ethics should not be an impediment to his election. And some of his backers say the Abscam scandal of 1980 is ancient history.
In that case, Mr. Murtha was among lawmakers caught on film being offered bribes by F.B.I. agents posing as Arab businessmen. Mr. Murtha, a protégé of Speaker Thomas P. O'Neill Jr., refused a bribe, saying he was not interested "at this point." He went on to testify against some of those sent to prison, and the federal government chose not to indict him. He was cleared by the House ethics committee, but the committee counsel quit after the case was dropped."
http://elainemeinelsupkis.typepad.com/daily_news/2006/11/index.html
Whatever Murtha hasn't done, Pelosi has. She got elected becase she let so many Democrats slide on ethics scandals.
Former Israeli PM Netasnyahu was on Glen Beck on CNN last night. He said that, regarding the Iranian nuclear situation, we can act now or act later. The difference is, if we act later, tens of millions of Americans may have died first. But, WTH, if Pelosi and Murtha aren't among them, what do they care?
"The Crusades were simply a taking back of contries that had been ravaged by Islam. They hoped it would be stopped or they would be content to take what they had, but it was realized that Europe was next. See ANY map of the area. You're probably so Islamic indoctrinated that you believe it was the Islamic Golden Era ( where whatever wasn't destroyed was 'absorbed' and claimed as there own)."
Was that what he was thinking when he sent successive waves of children to be slaughtered?
"You're so well thought out Bidden Plan:
STUPID, STUPID, STUPID!"
So you're saying you feel strongly about that?
"1) The Kurds move to establish ties to Turkey. YOU really don't want to see that."
That pretty much sums up your knowledge on anything but Islamic phobia. Turkey accepting the Kurds having that much autonomy would be the major stumbling block to the plan, not that they would join with them. Turkey has always been afraid of a Kurd homeland on it's border.
"2) MORE 'borders' to control. It Guarantees 'turf-wars' for many years to come."
Yeah, that might be a problem if it isn't laid out clearly to start with.
"Not to mention about 25 more reasons to NOT do it as any concept of a Bagdad DC is a joke."
Lay those twenty five on me there, big boy.
"Read a little about the Ottoman Empire oh Islamic Guru."
I have, but not off of clandestine websites, I guess.
"We conqured two countries in 30 days with about 250,000 troops and FEW casualties! GOOD PLAN."
Obviously, that was the easy part for a technologically advanced force, but from there we have had one or two minor problems, no?
"Put more troops in... Stupid again. How do you supply bullets and beans to a mass of troops protecting 3 border regions inside the Iraqi Borders? More targets. Finance how, you're already bitchhing about the cost."
I didn't say we would contract with Halliburton, and I think the idea, if it is like the Balkans, is it wouldn't just be us, it would be NATO based.
"Right now the supply chain is about 5:1 "Jane, you ignorant slut"!"
I love it when you talk dirty to me, and you're always such a "grateful1" when we're done.
"Stupid concept about WMD! It was the Chemical and Biological Weapons!"
Gee, I remember talk about mushroom clouds. Aluminum tubes, yellow cake.
"(Who sent the Antrax)? There was only about 30 TONS unaccouted for in Iraq and Ricin (look that one up sweetie, it's a tasty Saddam treat)."
A disgruntled government employee, or ex, according to the FBI, and yes, I know about Ricin, made from a plant you can get seeds for every year at any garden center.
"I told you before to read the CIA and UN (Blix) Reports with your own lying eyes, not some ignorant Know-It-All that agreed with it then and now pleads having been LIED to- lazy, incompentant, stupid (&(*^&*%%*& Democrat Leaders my ass."
Yeah, and then Saddam started letting them have access, and they specifically told Bush he was, and that they weren't finding anything, and they wanted time to finish, but that would have exposed his lies to the world, so he ordered them out and started bombing.
"Saddam had the French and Russians in his pocket with BILLIONS IN OIL_FOR_FOOD Program. We knew the Security Council was moving to LIFT sanctions and Saddam had purchased Duel-Purpose equipment and other stuff illegally on the International market even though banned to possess, "Jane, you IGNORANT slut!""
Which duel pupose equipment, the aluminum tubes?and if he had it, why didn't Bush let the inspectors finish and they'd have found it for him? This Jane woman is going to be offended by that talk if you aren't careful.
"He was ready and able to begin reproducing WMD (CW and BW) in mass quanities within weeks. The Nuke program was in Sudan, fool. WE KNOW because of HIS documents captured and translated."
Some chemical weapons anyone could have going in less time than that, but they weren't, were they? As for the Nukes, More crap off the websites of fellow wing nuts, let's see a major media outlet show the documents.
"See his possible involvement in the OKC bombing - the third man never found."
Oh, please, it hurts to laugh this hard. The lone gunman?
More blather was attached , but that's what it was. You are simply a nutcase, and any more effort on this is wasted breath, anyway. Send me a postcard from Bellvue when they haul you off. What a tool. And Jay, does this mean you're going to be his little sidekick now, you admire his ignorance that much?
/// "1) The Kurds move to establish ties to Turkey. YOU really don't want to see that."
That pretty much sums up your knowledge on anything but Islamic phobia. Turkey accepting the Kurds having that much autonomy would be the major stumbling block to the plan, not that they would join with them. Turkey has always been afraid of a Kurd homeland on it's border. ///
I was in Turkey. Eastern and western. Recently. Can you even find it on a map?
Do you remember Turkey denied the US permission to its bases there as launching points for a northern pincer into Iraq because they were afraid the Iraqi Kurds would push for independence and stir up THEIR Kurds? Or do you forget such inconvenient facts?
/// "2) MORE 'borders' to control. It Guarantees 'turf-wars' for many years to come."
Yeah, that might be a problem if it isn't laid out clearly to start with. ///
Do you know what happened when the US tried to split in two? Probably not. Google "American Civil War" (that's so you don't get it confused with the English civil war and the Spanish civil war).
/// "Read a little about the Ottoman Empire oh Islamic Guru."
I have, but not off of clandestine websites, I guess. ///
You read the comic book version, right?
/// "We conqured two countries in 30 days with about 250,000 troops and FEW casualties! GOOD PLAN."
Obviously, that was the easy part for a technologically advanced force, but from there we have had one or two minor problems, no? ///
We'll make you CIC next time. Then we can have a REALLY screwed up war.
/// "Put more troops in... Stupid again. How do you supply bullets and beans to a mass of troops protecting 3 border regions inside the Iraqi Borders? More targets. Finance how, you're already bitchhing about the cost."
I didn't say we would contract with Halliburton, and I think the idea, if it is like the Balkans, is it wouldn't just be us, it would be NATO based. ///
ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!! You twit! The Europeons have devolved back to the "Peace In Our Time", "Peace At Any Price", "Fighting for peace is like ****ing for virginity" 1930s.
/// "Right now the supply chain is about 5:1 "Jane, you ignorant slut"!"
I love it when you talk dirty to me, and you're always such a "grateful1" when we're done. ///
We weren't talk about your nasty habits, we were referring to that sad excuse for a brain.
/// "Stupid concept about WMD! It was the Chemical and Biological Weapons!"
Gee, I remember talk about mushroom clouds. Aluminum tubes, yellow cake. ///
Aluminum tubes? There's doubt Saddam acquired them? Yellow cake? George said Tony said his intelligence agencies told him Saddam had bought some. And the Brits stand by their statement to this day.
/// "(Who sent the Antrax)? There was only about 30 TONS unaccouted for in Iraq and Ricin (look that one up sweetie, it's a tasty Saddam treat)."
A disgruntled government employee, or ex, according to the FBI, and yes, I know about Ricin, made from a plant you can get seeds for every year at any garden center. ///
How much ricin HAVE you made recently?
/// "I told you before to read the CIA and UN (Blix) Reports with your own lying eyes, not some ignorant Know-It-All that agreed with it then and now pleads having been LIED to- lazy, incompentant, stupid (&(*^&*%%*& Democrat Leaders my ass."
Yeah, and then Saddam started letting them have access, and they specifically told Bush he was, and that they weren't finding anything, and they wanted time to finish, but that would have exposed his lies to the world, so he ordered them out and started bombing. ///
Right. Like we should trust an organization run by a bunch of ignorant corrupt dictators.
Oh. You do. Sorry, Jane, you ignorant slut.
/// "Saddam had the French and Russians in his pocket with BILLIONS IN OIL_FOR_FOOD Program. We knew the Security Council was moving to LIFT sanctions and Saddam had purchased Duel-Purpose equipment and other stuff illegally on the International market even though banned to possess, "Jane, you IGNORANT slut!""
Which duel pupose equipment, the aluminum tubes?and if he had it, why didn't Bush let the inspectors finish and they'd have found it for him? This Jane woman is going to be offended by that talk if you aren't careful. ///
Knowing they were being bribed, why should we have trusted them?
/// And Jay, does this mean you're going to be his little sidekick now, you admire his ignorance that much? ///
Compared to you? The man's Nobel Prize material.
/// "1) The Kurds move to establish ties to Turkey. YOU really don't want to see that."
That pretty much sums up your knowledge on anything but Islamic phobia. Turkey accepting the Kurds having that much autonomy would be the major stumbling block to the plan, not that they would join with them. Turkey has always been afraid of a Kurd homeland on it's border. ///
I was in Turkey. Eastern and western. Recently. Can you even find it on a map?
Do you remember Turkey denied the US permission to its bases there as launching points for a northern pincer into Iraq because they were afraid the Iraqi Kurds would push for independence and stir up THEIR Kurds? Or do you forget such inconvenient facts?
Uh, that's exactly what I said, you twit.
/// "2) MORE 'borders' to control. It Guarantees 'turf-wars' for many years to come."
Yeah, that might be a problem if it isn't laid out clearly to start with. ///
Do you know what happened when the US tried to split in two? Probably not. Google "American Civil War" (that's so you don't get it confused with the English civil war and the Spanish civil war).
The model is the Balkans not the civil war, I would think that was made obvious, Dimwit.
/// "Read a little about the Ottoman Empire oh Islamic Guru."
I have, but not off of clandestine websites, I guess. ///
You read the comic book version, right?
More idiotic vitriole. I do know I've read more than you. Probably about everything, or you woudn't make such an ass out of yourself all the time.
/// "We conqured two countries in 30 days with about 250,000 troops and FEW casualties! GOOD PLAN."
Obviously, that was the easy part for a technologically advanced force, but from there we have had one or two minor problems, no? ///
We'll make you CIC next time. Then we can have a REALLY screwed up war.
No, I would have let Shinseki (?) go in the way he wanted, instead of retiring him, but you probably don't even know who he is.
/// "Put more troops in... Stupid again. How do you supply bullets and beans to a mass of troops protecting 3 border regions inside the Iraqi Borders? More targets. Finance how, you're already bitchhing about the cost."
I didn't say we would contract with Halliburton, and I think the idea, if it is like the Balkans, is it wouldn't just be us, it would be NATO based. ///
ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!! You twit! The Europeons have devolved back to the "Peace In Our Time", "Peace At Any Price", "Fighting for peace is like ****ing for virginity" 1930s.
Note who is fighting the war in Afghanistan right now you uninformed idiot.
/// "Right now the supply chain is about 5:1 "Jane, you ignorant slut"!"
I love it when you talk dirty to me, and you're always such a "grateful1" when we're done. ///
We weren't talk about your nasty habits, we were referring to that sad excuse for a brain.
I'll leave that to any observer, with a high degree of confidence of their decision, to decide who here is feeble minded. That would be you, since you probably need a hint to figure it out, brickhead.
/// "Stupid concept about WMD! It was the Chemical and Biological Weapons!"
Gee, I remember talk about mushroom clouds. Aluminum tubes, yellow cake. ///
Aluminum tubes? There's doubt Saddam acquired them? Yellow cake? George said Tony said his intelligence agencies told him Saddam had bought some. And the Brits stand by their statement to this day.
Oh please, the form they have wasn't even issued for use till long after the note is supposed to have originated. It's a forgery, plain and simple, and everyone knows it, except for you, apparently.
/// "(Who sent the Antrax)? There was only about 30 TONS unaccouted for in Iraq and Ricin (look that one up sweetie, it's a tasty Saddam treat)."
A disgruntled government employee, or ex, according to the FBI, and yes, I know about Ricin, made from a plant you can get seeds for every year at any garden center. ///
How much ricin HAVE you made recently?
None, but give me your address and I might be tempted to whip up a batch.
/// "I told you before to read the CIA and UN (Blix) Reports with your own lying eyes, not some ignorant Know-It-All that agreed with it then and now pleads having been LIED to- lazy, incompentant, stupid (&(*^&*%%*& Democrat Leaders my ass."
Yeah, and then Saddam started letting them have access, and they specifically told Bush he was, and that they weren't finding anything, and they wanted time to finish, but that would have exposed his lies to the world, so he ordered them out and started bombing. ///
Right. Like we should trust an organization run by a bunch of ignorant corrupt dictators.
Oh. You do. Sorry, Jane, you ignorant slut.
No you'd rather believe a proven liar that is working on becoming a dictator.
/// "Saddam had the French and Russians in his pocket with BILLIONS IN OIL_FOR_FOOD Program. We knew the Security Council was moving to LIFT sanctions and Saddam had purchased Duel-Purpose equipment and other stuff illegally on the International market even though banned to possess, "Jane, you IGNORANT slut!""
Which duel pupose equipment, the aluminum tubes?and if he had it, why didn't Bush let the inspectors finish and they'd have found it for him? This Jane woman is going to be offended by that talk if you aren't careful. ///
Knowing they were being bribed, why should we have trusted them?
We obviously didn't, for no good reason. The inspectors were not from the food for oil program, you know.
/// And Jay, does this mean you're going to be his little sidekick now, you admire his ignorance that much? ///
Compared to you? The man's Nobel Prize material.
You mean the Darwin awards, don't you?
"Uh, that's exactly what I said, you twit."
No, Jane, you streetwalking whore, that is NOT what you said. Not even close. AND you evaded my questions.
"The model is the Balkans not the civil war, I would think that was made obvious, Dimwit."
There's a mongoloid dimwit in here, alright, but it's not me.
"/// "Read a little about the Ottoman Empire oh Islamic Guru."
I have, but not off of clandestine websites, I guess. ///
You read the comic book version, right?
More idiotic vitriole. I do know I've read more than you. Probably about everything, or you woudn't make such an ass out of yourself all the time."
Jane, you streetwalking whore, you've given no indication that would lead anyone to believe you have even a small clue as to what you are barking about.
"/// "We conqured two countries in 30 days with about 250,000 troops and FEW casualties! GOOD PLAN."
Obviously, that was the easy part for a technologically advanced force, but from there we have had one or two minor problems, no? ///
We'll make you CIC next time. Then we can have a REALLY screwed up war.
No, I would have let Shinseki (?) go in the way he wanted, instead of retiring him, but you probably don't even know who he is."
Oh, I do. He was lucky. Military men follow the CICs orders. Truman, uyndoubtedly one of your heroes, FIRED MacArthur for refusing to do that.
"/// "Put more troops in... Stupid again. How do you supply bullets and beans to a mass of troops protecting 3 border regions inside the Iraqi Borders? More targets. Finance how, you're already bitchhing about the cost."
I didn't say we would contract with Halliburton, and I think the idea, if it is like the Balkans, is it wouldn't just be us, it would be NATO based. ///
ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!! You twit! The Europeons have devolved back to the "Peace In Our Time", "Peace At Any Price", "Fighting for peace is like ****ing for virginity" 1930s.
Note who is fighting the war in Afghanistan right now you uninformed idiot."
Jane, you streetwalking whore, the Europeons (with the exception of Britain) have made it perfectly clear they want nothing to do with Iraq. With Afghanistan, the US was attacked. The NATO members then had a choice: (1) put up troops and equipment, or (2) take notes from the frogs and withdraw from the mutual defense pact (not a good move) and prove they were as cowardly as the frogs. If they did THAT, no nation would ever trust their word again. Find out what the situjation is before you bark, Jane, you streetwalking whore.
"/// "Right now the supply chain is about 5:1 "Jane, you ignorant slut"!"
I love it when you talk dirty to me, and you're always such a "grateful1" when we're done. ///
We weren't talk about your nasty habits, we were referring to that sad excuse for a brain.
I'll leave that to any observer, with a high degree of confidence of their decision, to decide who here is feeble minded. That would be you, since you probably need a hint to figure it out, brickhead."
So will I,Jane, you streetwalking whore.
"/// "Stupid concept about WMD! It was the Chemical and Biological Weapons!"
Gee, I remember talk about mushroom clouds. Aluminum tubes, yellow cake. ///
Aluminum tubes? There's doubt Saddam acquired them? Yellow cake? George said Tony said his intelligence agencies told him Saddam had bought some. And the Brits stand by their statement to this day.
Oh please, the form they have wasn't even issued for use till long after the note is supposed to have originated. It's a forgery, plain and simple, and everyone knows it, except for you, apparently."
I'm SURE you're ready to prove that, right, Jane, you streetwalking whore.
"/// "(Who sent the Antrax)? There was only about 30 TONS unaccouted for in Iraq and Ricin (look that one up sweetie, it's a tasty Saddam treat)."
A disgruntled government employee, or ex, according to the FBI, and yes, I know about Ricin, made from a plant you can get seeds for every year at any garden center. ///
How much ricin HAVE you made recently?
None, but give me your address and I might be tempted to whip up a batch."
Is that a threat, Jane, you streetwalking whore?
"/// "I told you before to read the CIA and UN (Blix) Reports with your own lying eyes, not some ignorant Know-It-All that agreed with it then and now pleads having been LIED to- lazy, incompentant, stupid (&(*^&*%%*& Democrat Leaders my ass."
Yeah, and then Saddam started letting them have access, and they specifically told Bush he was, and that they weren't finding anything, and they wanted time to finish, but that would have exposed his lies to the world, so he ordered them out and started bombing. ///
Right. Like we should trust an organization run by a bunch of ignorant corrupt dictators.
Oh. You do. Sorry, Jane, you ignorant slut.
No you'd rather believe a proven liar that is working on becoming a dictator."
If he's intent on becoming a dictator, I'll believe your incomptence claims, Jane, you streetwalking whore. Because the fool still lets ignoramuses like you criticize him with impunity, something that never happened in Saddam's Iraq or the good old USSR, your favored land.
"/// "Saddam had the French and Russians in his pocket with BILLIONS IN OIL_FOR_FOOD Program. We knew the Security Council was moving to LIFT sanctions and Saddam had purchased Duel-Purpose equipment and other stuff illegally on the International market even though banned to possess, "Jane, you IGNORANT slut!""
Which duel pupose equipment, the aluminum tubes?and if he had it, why didn't Bush let the inspectors finish and they'd have found it for him? This Jane woman is going to be offended by that talk if you aren't careful. ///
Knowing they were being bribed, why should we have trusted them?
We obviously didn't, for no good reason. The inspectors were not from the food for oil program, you know."
Who's the boss of the inspectors? Kofi, ultimately. Who was being bought? His son. I'm SURE you believe Kofi wouldn't let that influence him though. LOL!!!!!!!
There was a time when the UN was actually respected, remember? But it hasn't been under these clowns, Jane, you streetwalking whore.
"/// And Jay, does this mean you're going to be his little sidekick now, you admire his ignorance that much? ///
Compared to you? The man's Nobel Prize material.
You mean the Darwin awards, don't you?"
Wth your demonstrated stupidity, it can simply be due to the kindness of the universe that you don't have one.
Your ignorance is only surpassed by your parrot like ability to repeat over and over one insult you weren't even clever enough to come up with on your own in the first place. I sat and laughed as I wondered how long it took you to find out who General Shinseki was. And nice cover try on the NATO reference, I already was aware of why they were there, but it was obvious you were unaware of them even fighting in Afghanistan, or you wouldn't have said what you did, previously. What a putz. On the yellow cake thing, yes, I could prove it, but you can Google can't you? Do your own research. The confirmation of what I said is easily found. As for the ricin, no, that was a joke, obviously (Are you that dimwitted?) You got the term right when you called Bush a fool, I applaud that much. Kofi Annan had nothing to do with selecting the inspectors, and that's a pretty weak argument. In point of fact, an internal investigation of the scandal cleared Kofi of any knowledge of the affair. You never did tell me what dual use equipment Saddam had, by the way, which tells me though grateful1 knew, you don't. Your nothing if not true to a proven boob, in your president, even though his own party was shunning him all through the elections, but hey, not Jay, Jay's loyal to ignoramus leaders. Reference Grating1. You could both get a Darwin, but yours would be for far much more stupidity than his, I'm pretty sure.
"Turkey accepting the Kurds having that much autonomy would be the major stumbling block to the plan, not that they would join with them. Turkey has always been afraid of a Kurd homeland on it's border."
different words, but it IS what I said.
This thread is long out of the view of the public here, and it serves no good to spank your ignorant butt so many times in private. I will be happy to do it in public, though, as many times as you want, so, see you on the boards, I'm done here. I'm sure you'll put up some lame answer here, but I won't be back to read it, so rant away, get it all out, maybe even have a good cry, you've earned it.
"I sat and laughed as I wondered how long it took you to find out who General Shinseki was."
I likely had heard of him before you. Where did you run across him? MoveOn, TruthOut, of the funny papers?
" And nice cover try on the NATO reference, I already was aware of why they were there, but it was obvious you were unaware of them even fighting in Afghanistan, or you wouldn't have said what you did, previously. What a putz."
What a mongoloud idiot. After 911, the US called for a meeting of the NATO Military Council, saying we had been attacked and asking for activation of the mutual defense clause of the NATO treaty. On Oct. 2, 2001, the NATO alliance, for the first time invoked Article 5, the joint defence clause, that holds that an attack upon one member is an attack against all. THAT means all 26 NATO nations are required to provide soldiers and support for military action in Afghanistan. Clear now.
Oh. Make that 25. There are 26 nations in NATO but the cowardly frogs long ago withdrew their assent to the military prtions of the treaty. At the time (the 1960s), the USSR was the expected enemy and to get to France, Warsaw Pact forces would first have ti invade Germany and THAT would activate the nutual defense clause and bring in the U S, so the frogs could get a free ride.
"On the yellow cake thing, yes, I could prove it, but you can Google can't you? Do your own research."
YOU made the claim. YOU prove it. YOU prove your claims; I prove mine. Or is this an admission you can'?
"Kofi Annan had nothing to do with selecting the inspectors, and that's a pretty weak argument. In point of fact, an internal investigation of the scandal cleared Kofi of any knowledge of the affair."
Yeah. By people who hardly want the UN scuttled.
" You never did tell me what dual use equipment Saddam had, by the way, which tells me though grateful1 knew, you don't."
Well, you're wrong again, which I'm sure is no surprise to anyone.
"Turkey accepting the Kurds having that much autonomy would be the major stumbling block to the plan, not that they would join with them. Turkey has always been afraid of a Kurd homeland on it's border."
different words, but it IS what I said.
You sure hid it well.
"This thread is long out of the view of the public here, and it serves no good to spank your ignorant butt so many times in private. I will be happy to do it in public, though, as many times as you want, so, see you on the boards, I'm done here. "
Bye bye. Don't let the doorknob hit you in the butt on the wat out.