Well now....here's a rather new twist...and it sheds some REAL light on the current administration as well as how future administrations play out.
I'm not sure how I feel about a North American Union yet. Until the federal government speaks up, I really won't know. Since the first agenda of every politician is to get elected - we won't actually know the true agenda of that person until after he/she takes office. Isn't that comforting?
What I do know is that leaders in South America feel extremely threatened. My supposition is that they also see the potential reality of this union - and they don't like it. It's one thing to deal with the U.S. - a completely different ball game to deal with the North American Union.
hmmmm....
What would happen if we did it? We can look to Europe for a few clues...
We would have one economy: No more pesos vs. dollars.
We would have no more illegal immigrants from Mexico and Canada or as far south as Guatemala.
If we were ever attacked with a nuclear or biological agent, U.S. citizens would be welcome in neighboring countries.
We would have entire nations devoted to securing our borders. The ocean is much easier to patrol than land borders and that would make ALL governments vigilant.
Right now our biggest hypothetical threat with regard to being defeated in war is China. They have equivalent technology and the size of their military is unrivaled in the world. That alone would change significantly with this union.
What about the loss of the "true America?" Wellll, what is the true America? Isn't it a melting pot of diverse people and cultures working toward the greater good for this country? Isn't America Appalachia and China Town, the French Quarter, the Dallas Cowboys and the barrios of L.A? I was taught in school that diversity defines us - we are the only nation in the world who strives this hard to mesh cultures and races creating "one America."
In the end, if done properly, the poverty level in these countries will be relieved, we should be able to move freely and expand upon the raw land and resources other countries have available. More oil, more land for crops, more businesses, more progress....
I love my country. And it will always be my country - no matter how far our borders extend.
There are questions to be answered - like how this will work with regard to Democracy and Capitalism? What will be in place to prevent abuses of power like we have seen in recent years? What is to prevent us from furthering our own agenda at the cost of more people and other countries? Will they stand with us in time of war or when there are attacks of terror? Will we stand with them?
I resent the cowardly acts of this administration - I resent the misinformation, the lies and the subterfuge. I resent the hell out of it. A North American Union will never happen if politicians continue their center-stage rhetoric. So if they want it - we should demand some information and answers.
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Comments: 33
While this is a very well written article with some valid points, I have to dispute what you wrote about China.
If anyone thinks that joining forces with Canada and Mexico will help defend us against China in case they decide to invade, then they are disillusioned.
Kinda adds some perspective...lol.
The fact is, they can and will seek more land. They are the world's most formidable military force - not the United States.
We are a huge country - tons of natural resources on reserve - we wouldn't win a popularity contest anywhere in the world - we risk the wrath of nations who have the possibility of immediately annihlating life as we know it.
North American Union has been tried in Europe. It's successful. The only chance in hell we have is to form a concrete alliance with our neighbors. We know about the "Cold War." We know how quickly alliances change. We gripe about the money we send to other countries and how it doesn't buy allegiance to our way of thinking....
We are separating ourselves - flexing our political muscle and alienating countries we may need someday. Isn't a good idea to have a few permanent countries on our side?
As a Canadian I must say, while I respect America and cherish many things about your country, I have no wish to become American. I prefer being a Canadian.
Our countries have been neighbours since our inceptions, have been friends and allies for much of that time (after a rocky beginning going right up until the 1850s) and have much in common in the political, cultural and social spheres. Still, there are vast differences between us as well, and I often see them as more profound than the similarities.
Take, for example, the way our leaders are treated. The Prime Minister of Canada (our head of government but not head of state), Jean Chretien at the time, was once famously accosted in public by a man who has some beef the discuss. The PM grabbed him by the throat and shoved him out of his way. Afterwards there were actually discussions about whether there should be assault charges laid against the PM! There were jokes about the move being "the Shawinigan handshake", the being the PMs hometown. In the US the man would never have gotten within two feet of the President, would have been thrown to the ground with a secret service man's knee on his back and guns to his head and the President would have been spirited away in a limo while people ran for cover fearing an assassination attempt!
We have several political comedy shows on which high ranking government and oppostion leaders, including the PM, have appeared in comedic cameos, which often spoof them and their public persona. Comedic television characters are known to accost the PM and other leaders during public media scrums, laying a barrage of inflammatory but hilarious verbal bombast on them and not letting them get a word in edgewise, all the while being physically chummy with them. Again, in the US this would be a major security breech and physical violence and criminal charges would be laid against the comedian who dared.
Another great difference I always notice is between American and Canadian television. Often every ad break on your TV is filled with several commericals for brand name drugs, something we never see on our own channels. It makes America seem like a very drug dependent society, and I'm not even thinking of cocaine, heroin or marijuana in this regard.
America has often been defined by the analogies between your society and its national pastime, baseball. Prominent historians have produced documentaries which show that the history of baseball closely parallels the history of the nation that invented it. Our national pastime is hockey (yes, and lacrosse, but really mostly hockey). It too parallels our growth as a nation very well. The two games could hardly be more dissimilar and they say a lot about our national characters. Americans see Canadians as a meek, polite somewhat submissive people. Polite we generally are, in comparison, but meek and submissive are not Canadian characteristics. The barely controlled violence of hockey is reflective of the Canadian character in many ways (civil in public discourse but fierce when aroused).
These differences which I have already remarked on are only the tip of the iceberg. Our real differences emerge when you look at the difference in public policy: medicare (we've had it for more than a generation and Canadians define ourselves by it, politicians would never dare to speak against it and even the right wing tiptoes carefully around any changes to it, while your liberal politicians tiptoe carefully around any suggestion of enacting anything approaching it); drug policy (Canada has been seriously talking about legalizing marijuana for a generation now, and it is entirely likely that it will happen before much longer; the war on drugs remains a centrepiece of American drug policy); same-sex marriage (while you have been passing laws specifically preventing it we have been legalizing it and forgetting about it). The American left wing in politics tends to be to the right of the Canadian right wing (except for our new government that is starting to emulate Bush more and more, but tries to appear as though they are not). You have outlawed communists, a very undemocratic thing to do, while we have always had them running and losing in elections up here. However, we have had social democrats (socialists) running many provincial governments for decades on and off.
In addition to this, the violence in your culture is abhorrent to us. Though we have also had school shootings, particularly in Montreal (the least American of Canada's large cities)oddly enough, we do not have the fortress mentality that your urban schools seem to require to prevent tragedy.
America is a great nation. Lots to admire about it. I'd rather remain Canadian, thank you.
The problem is the Bush administration is building border security with new fences and extra National Guard security. But the present security efforts are only to pacify those who feel threatened. These security efforts will probably not have any lasting substance.
We are big-headed and pig-headed; no argument here.
I don't assume you would want to be "Americanized." I assume countries would want to keep their laws and culture and current political systems. That's a given and it is also the major fear of U.S. citizens - that we will somehow be taken over by an alliance.
The fact is that all these countries exchange workers, legal and illegal. Both exchange businesses and money flows in terms of exchanged currency.
The North American Union, IMHO, is more than anything an acknowledgement of what is already occuring.
Or not?
So, the question becomes, are we (lower and middle class) willing to give up what we have, live with FAR LESS for a supposed chance that our great grand children will reap the rewards for our ultimate sacrifice.....AWFUL BIG LEAP OF FAITH.
When it comes to the E.U. the biggest thing people want is a sense of identity. I have a lot of faith in the idea of the U.S. and I can not agree with anyone that woul d want to merge the United States into a conglomerate without first perfecting a democracy.
Also when it comes to an ecomony, think about averages. Mexico has the worst economy of the three and would bring down the American economy. There are already plans for a TTC (Texas Transportation corridor) that would go from Mexico to Canada, this is part of what NAFTA is about. What do you think would happen to the U.S. and Canadian ports if all shipping was done in MExico and then goods were shipped north. We would have a lot of coastal cities lose millions of dollars.
Given the corruption of the MExican government and its inability to invest in its poor.. and an article from time magazine indicating that Mexico's 2nd highest amount of income from foreign money is remittance from illegal aliens working in the U.S. I can not in good conscience believe Mexico would operate in the best interests of a Union.
I would bet, that if it did happen, it wouldn't be long until countries in Central and South America were slowly invited too. Look at the EU, and what they are doing.
It would be a Hemisphere thing then........
PS- NAU= Northern Arizona University........;-)
Obviously you have eaten some tainted tacos. The Canadian and Mexican armies are hardly going to strenghten us against China. And if China, India and Russia decide to get together, it's all over anyway. No force on this earth will be able to handle that.
So China is the most populous nation on earth. My God I beleive that there are about 20 billoinquazillion of them, and there are probably more Chinese abroad than any other nationality. I met a girl who is from Belives. She looked Chinese as all getout, so I asked her what languages she spoke. She said Cantonese and English, which verifyed my suspicions about her being Chinese. Those Chinese buggers are everywhere. So since we have room availabe, perhaps we should take more of them in as well ?
I'm going to solve the overpopulation of China myself. I'm flying out tomorrow with about 10 trillion condoms. I'll sell the condoms, solve the overpopulation problem and get rich in the process!
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=16189
And as far as China goes, Asia has been on the rise since the end of colonialism. Who knows...
You're feeding my mind faster than I can digest! Thanx for throwing yet another intriguing idea into the mix!
Rory M
M.Q.
John S.
This is a done deal and in progress, the set date for implementation is 2010.
If anyone has wondered why Mr. Bush has not closed our borders, this is why
Please go look it up,
SPP, Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America. It is designed to form a single government for Mexico, U.S.A. and Canada.
CFR
http://usinfo.state.gov/is/Archive/2005/Mar/23-209281.html
That is the official U.S. government information about this agreement signed in March 2005, by President Bush, Vicente Fox and Then Canadian Prime Minister Paul Martin.
Here is a link North American Leaders Unveil Security and Prosperity Partnership"
Unbelievable that this has not been in the news.
Rory,
Your remarks show that you and My Canadian cousins know nothing about this either.
Please note I have provided a link to a .gov site, not a blog or pundit.
Title: Building a North American Community, This document is
Sponsored by the Council on Foreign Relations in association with the
Canadian Council of Chief Executives
and the Consejo Mexicano de Asuntos Internacionales
Building A North American Community
If the link doesn't work here is the copy and paste
http://canada.usembassy.gov/content/can_usa/northamericancommunity_TF_final.pdf#search='%28Council%20on%20Foreign%20RelationsNorth%20American%20Union%29'
Democracy (a form of government)
Capitalism (a business model that relies on cheap labor and an expanding population)
Free Trade (Non tariff trade between any form of government for example China is totalitarian; U.S.A. was a democracy the difference in type of government does not matter in trade.
Our current political leaders have misled people into believing that Capitalism and Democracy are synonymous. It is a lie.
[deep breath]
So, more importantly, now what? Have we come too far to turn back?
No debate in congress,
No NEWS, Where is O'Reilly(gag)
Where is CNN
This is strictly for the capitalists. If you only had a tiny clue about how every citizen of each of the three nations have been sold for cheap labor and big profits you would wonder why the idea of nation exists at all. Power and Wealth needs no borders
That's what bothers me. Are we buying into the anti-Bush Administration Propaganda or is this for real?
I don't want to hear a single quote from Lou Dobbs, please. That man is sorely uninformed and so hard right...he's more transparent than I am. The only difference is I don't try to convince people I'm something I'm not.
the SPP is real.. and Tom Tancredo a representative from Colorado on his site has what little information he got from the department of commerce listed on his site.
Jackie, you yourself have posted that you are for the fence and that you don't oppose the NAU. You can't have it both ways Jackie. I do have to give you some credit for trying to learn though.
More to the point: I'm blown away that they play with US like a bright new toy.
Somebody stop them, PLEASE.
I want people treated humanely, Timothy - if you take nothing else away from what I post - please know that.
For me it isn't about illegality or legality - those are man-made whims to sort the politics of the moment.
I'm talking about God-given rights - I'm talking about humanity, period. It doesn't matter if you are in Rwanda or in El Salvador or in the United States.
Accountability has been programmed into my brain. I don't make a single move - take a single breath, without it. Who do you think put it there?
Now, when I demand the same accountability I'm slammed because I stopped believing in our immigration system years ago. I see the corruption - I LIVE the corruption, Timothy. Understand - because in many ways - I understand your perspective. I happen to know that it runs deeper and has a tighter grip on this nation's employment - the BACKBONE of this nation's employment - than just about anyone I know.
I KNOW for a fact, we can't turn back. I want the criminals deported. I don't MS-13 or 13 Sur for a neighbor. I want the feds. to stop lying and start doing their job. Their job is to report to us - explain to us - exactly what this is and where we are going.
Passing half-assed legislation and telling us in the same week it won't be funded, infuriates me. If it wasn't going to be funded - why the hell waste all the time and energy on it? Politics make me sick.
I want a strong Independent who is careful with our future. I don't demand a pro-immigrant stance but I'll vote Democrat before I elect any person who can't stand up and explain to us the truth:
We've come too far. We have to move carefully. We have to deport criminals and secure our borders first - then we'll discuss work permits.
By the way, I have a link for you. It's from VDare.
http://vdare.com/rubenstein/061004_nd.htm
I found it interesting, slanted and tended to slam those hired to work - which is stupid if they need money and we provide the means....anyway, check it out.
I'm opposed to illegal immigration, but I want people to be treated humanely as well. You read my first article, so you should know how I feel. That was all real life. I saw it, I felt their pain. I tried to help them to no avail. I dealt with ICE and the FBI ( by the way, both of them drive Chevy Impalas ) , and that experience has changed me forever as well as what I saw at the Chinese restaurant. That is why I joined Gather.
I do have sympathy for illegals who become victioms of Human Trafficking, but that's as far as my sympathy for illegals goes.
There are 2 movies that you should watch when you have the time.
" Human Trafficking " which aired on Lifetime TV ,about prostitutes trafficked into the U.S.
" Broken Trail " which aired on AMC, about the Yellow Slave Trade of the late 1800's.
Both are available on DVD now
It isn't easy, Timothy. They would allow a worker to die before taking them to a clinic or hospital. And...it isn't all the traffickers - it's about 50/50.
The fact is illegal immigration is big business, big money, big abuse. It is firmly in place and will be hard to eradicate. The horrible thing is, using indigenous people from Chiapas as an example...many do not have radios and phones. If the law changed tomorrow, they wouldn't know it for MONTHS. The MX government has issues with this state and I'm certain they wouldn't educate the people.
Sigh....the main point I need people to understand is that the flow has not stemmed much - a little - but not much.
They are simply more careful and more organized and there is fraud at the border. There are dirty border guards, Timothy - lots of them, I think.
I live in tobacco country, and the local tobacco farmers tell me that they get their Mexican workers through an organization called " USDA farm services " or something like that. The Mexicans are supposedly legal and they are here on a temporary work visa. They tell me that they are required by the Government to pay the Mexicans $8.20 per hour as well as provide housing and transportation for them. Do you know anything about this ?
I will say that when the Mecxicans are clean and well dressed when they shop in my store, and they seem free to shop and come and go as they please when they aren't working. No evidence of trafficking on the local farms here.
Where they get trafficked and abused is in the Chinese restaurants. Every Chinese restaurant that I've eaten at has Hispanics working in the kitchen as dishwashers.
ICE really needs to concentrate on these Chinese restaurants.
And, for the record, Mexicans enjoy dressing up in their very best. They may not own a car, have much cash, or anything material - but they do have a couple of really expensive outfits and are well-groomed....
Just the way it is.
And, yes, the Chinese Restaurants are a major employer of illegals - both Hispanic and Chinese...from what I hear...