NO TROOPS REDUCTIONS IN IRAQ THROUGH AT LEAST 2010! BUSH FAILURE NEWS

porgie, did you think we were gonna get out of there in 2 months? look at this mess. i don't want to abandon the iraqis. many of them have been trying to help the government, trying to cooperate with the americans.

i just think we need to do a better job. that means better policy decisions, allocation of resources.

the iraqis want security, that's for sure. we need to make sure it's secure. but the rough spot is that afghanistan isn't going too well either right now. there's a question whether we have enough troops. things have got to be solved. i think it's obnoxious for people to go back for 4 tours of duty.

Have you been to Iraq?. The munition dumps are protected from direct attack. How ever they are not protected from Haji blindly lobbing mortars and rockets over the wire. Every one gets lucky now and then. As for troop strength everyone in uniform new going in this was going to be just like Germany after WWII, we still have troops in Germany.

rated a 10, worthy of discussion.

Troublemaker...I agree we cannnot just up and come home...but, think we need NEW LEADERSHIP, and that means Rumsfield HAS TO GO.

Rolland...I just know, that if I had a child, would encourage them NOT to enlist right now....think lower and middle class Americans are paying to high a price for Bush's wrong war. Let's bring back the draft, and when the children of rich families start dying, maybe our leaders will be a bit more careful, give diplomacy adequate time to work...for that matter, where Bush is concerned, simply give diplomacy a chance.

Porgie, after reading the comments above I have to ask you, what do you expect Bush to do in the way of diplomacy now?

Noah....Bush and his entire administration are BANKRUPT...if Bush has any pride left at all, he'd offer up his, and his entire cabinets resignations.

Bankrupt you say? To whom does he owe money? I would much rather pay taxes to go to a war fought against terrorism than have our money spread around useless things in the homeland like usual.

Tony, a BIG BINGO

Noah,

Bush doesn't owe anybody money, we owe the money to Saudi Arabia, China, and Japan.

Ya, lets spend the money killing people and being killed only to make more and more emboldened enemies.

Lets not spend it on education, science, health care, and port/border security. Screw that stupid shit huh?

Porgie,
No doubt the price of this war has been paid by the middle and lower class. The draft is not coming back for the reasons you mentioned, and its to late for diplomacy in Iraq were neck deep.

Rolland, I agree....what amazes me, is watching the Republicans slowly embrace the war positions the Dems have put out for almost three years now, and I have a feeling after the election they will embrace them fully and claim them as their own.

Porgie -

You continually talk of class warfare. Why?

We were fed a bunch of lies. Bush cronies have admitted that he had plans to invade Iraq BEFORE 9-11 because he foolishly thought he could install a democratic government in the middle of an Islamic world. So they made up a bunch of lies about WMD and off they went. No plans for after the invasion - no proper equipment - no plans on how to proceed when the going got tough. Never enough troops there so our soldiers are getting killed every day and they are being held for rotation after rotation. The Iraqi police we trained are letting the terrorists use their equipment and telling them where to find us. And without enough troops we can't make much progress can we? With luck we'll put Democrats in the majority in the House and Senate and hopefully they'll be able to find solutions and convince the remaining Republicans that we need to totally revamp the war and bring our troops home. The terrorists groups that have been growing larger and larger because we are there will then have to find another venue and the Iraqis will have a chance to do whatever it is they think will sove their situation.

Bret....12-20 Million illegal aliens stealing our jobs and depressing our wages, not to mention stagnant middle class wages for 35 years now, and you have to ask that question?

Porgie, do you and others really not know that Pentagon planners ALWAYS plan for more than a week ahead?...next Fiscal Year ,there will be new plans for the POSSIBILITY we will be there till 2011...it is what they do....they PLAN.It does NOT mean it is going to happen.
You SPECIFICALLY ignored how the staff member indicated this...assuming you were citing the Washington Post interview/story.

Michael....every report, every news story depends on how it's presented, how it is read. On CNN tonight, they presented this report as the first time the Bush administration has pushed troops withdraws so far into the future.

2 Failures that is Iraq and Afganistan. Lets at least have 1 success so pull troops out of Iraq & send them to Afganistan.

David....exactly....at least we were winning that war, and making a positive difference till Bush pulled the plug.

two more years of bush, then lets see what the next pres does, oh i mean hillary

Porgie -

I think you have 2 situations going on here, and you're blending them.

One, you've got the illegal alien problem, and we're both highly against that.

Second, you've got the richest 10% of the country who pay 78% of the taxes. However, the poor and the middle class want them to pay even more. How fair can that possibly be? When tax cuts occur, the poor and middle class want a bigger piece of the pie than what they paid in. Again, how can that be fair?

It seems like many on this thread are not aware that the U.S. has already handed over military operations in Afghanistan to NATO a few weeks ago, after phasing in the changeover in the past few months. NATO has taken on a bold new plan to take the fight to the Taliban. In the past 3 NATO offensives, 2500 Taliban have been killed. The Southern provinces are no longer off-limits as NATO is chasing these guys out of existence. Afghanistan is turning into a rout, in our favor. Rumors of a Taliban comeback were a little premature.

Porgie....by the logic you present here,the red cross must be going to launch a tornado in the midwest, because they have PLANS for what to do if it happens.
My fire department is going to set a house on fire, because they have PLANS for what to do if a fire occurs.Kansas City government must be about to blow up something so big inside the city that they then need to evacuate, because they have PLANS for such an evacuation
I really don't mean to pick on you Porgie,but can't let it slide when you ignore the fact that planners PLAN.

Michael...I'd BET MONEY that there is going to be a tornado in the midwest, as I used to live there, in fact just outside of an area referred to as Tornado alley. I watched the tornado that wiped out Xenia, Ohio fly right over my house back in the 70's.

Planners plan, but they PLAN based on realistic expectations.

Bret...........

I'm not asking for taxes to go down for the lower and middle class, asking that WAGES GO UP, that our government stop supporting CHEAP LABOR by allowing 12-20 million illegal aliens to invest our nation. It's not about taxing the rich more, it's about the fact that wages for lower and middle class families adjusted for inflation have been STAGNANT for 35 years. Most families have maintained their life styles by becoming two even three income families, and working longer hours.

Tony -

The only murdering that's going on is your murdering of the English language and grammar.
If you were able to understand, I'd answer your feeble charges.

Tony -

I think I'd rather let your own big mouth do you in. Just keep talking trash and we'll all just keep laughing.

Porgie -

I don't think we have an argument on illegal aliens.
And I agree with you, the middle class will continue to be squeezed because of all the reasons you mentioned, plus a few you didn't.
The one part that I continuously object to is the vilification of the rich. Once we get away from that, we'll be much better off. This class warfare nonsense is so counter-productive. Fairness in taxation isn't even close - the rich pay so much more taxes than anyone else. I would like to see that rectified. And I'd like to see the jealousy of the rich, end.

Bret....give me a break....they pay LESS of a percentage of their whole than those in the middle class do...one such example....Social Security is a depreciating percentage of the whole once you max out at around 90K....further, the rich are now owning a larger piece of the pie by keeping wages down.

This kind of stupidity is exactly why Porgie has no credibility whatsoever----

the generals made clear these projections were only worst case scenario projects IN CASE they are needed, and should not in any way, shape or form be taken to mean it is set in stone, troops WILL BE THERE UNTIL 2010.

I wonder if Porgie is aware the Pentagon has war games/scenarios for most of the countries of the Western world, as well as our perceived enemies. I wonder if Porgie IS aware of such planning, does he also believe it is INEVITABLE these plans will be carried out?

Porgie is an extremist nutcase looking for enough comments to give his wife gift certificates because he's too cheap to buy her anything with his own money. So he posts these RIDICULOUSLY stupid comments and pretends he means what he's saying.

Even Porgie can't be stupid enough to believe his own misinformation.

jJacki, what's wrong, not doing well in the Election 2006 contest? So, going to beat up on OLD PORGIE?

Gee, war games, scenerios....brother was stationed at the Pentagon in logistics jJack, so NO, that NEVER occurred to me. See, that's what I love about America...you know the right people, and you can find out stuff the government would prefer you not know.

Porgie -

If you measure taxes paid compared to income, yea, their percentage is small. But if you look at all the revenue brought into the Treasury and attribute it to income brackets, the percentages are wildly skewed to the rich. They pay 78% of the taxes in this country.

A very small amount of the truly wealthy got that way by keeping the lowly lettuce picker as his indentured servant. Most of the wealth is generated by ongoing tech and larger service businesses..............companies that pay for superior brainpower.

Bret...middle class wages have remained STAGNANT for 35 years now. In the meantime, in just the past ten years, salaries for the upper 10 percent of the American society have increased 361 percent. Stop trying to sell me on feeling some sympathy for the rich and elite. They simply put, have gotten to greedy. Do some research...in the 70's, the average executive earned 79 times the salary of the average factory worker....now days, that figure is over 400 times the average factory workers salary.

Porgie -

We'll be out of Iraq by the end of 2007. No way it will be left to the next President to clean up. That would be awful strategy for 2008.

Bret....unless Bush pulls the plug on Iraq, we will not be out of there....best case scenerio by end of 2007 is having our troop strength down to less than 100,000.

Everyone but Bush saw this coming...on Jane's you can find and article from 2003 that outlines what would happen/what has happened in Iraq. Everyone saw the Rumsfeld war strategy mistakes before they were even made EXCEPT this administation.

Porgie -

In the last 25 years the percentage amount of the total taxes paid by the rich has gone up. The percentage amount of the total taxes paid by the Middle class and poor has gone WAY down. More progressive income taxes do not yield equity for the Middle class and poor. It just makes them feel less engaged. And they also get fewer tax breaks that way.
These Bush tax breaks and rebates have been great for anyone making less than $100k, and horrible for anyone making more than $150k. The Middle class and the poor should be loving Mr. Bush for the huge checks they get.

Bret.....I know what I saved in the Bush Tax Cut. Also know this past tax year that I got SCREWED with the minimum tax gimmick that wiped out many of my deductions for medical costs I incurred. I also know that those tax cuts from the Federal Government were a SHELL GAME, as local government has to raise my local taxes to offset their losses from the federal government. If your in the middle class, the Bush Tax cuts SCREWED YOU. When I retire, when I get my hands on my 401 K, the money is going OFF SHORE where America cannot touch as they have screwed me enough over the years.

Porgie -

Just about the only good thing about having only 150,000 troops in Iraq is that you can get them out faster than the 500,000 that most of us thought would be needed there.

The Iraqi military is gearing up fast. They are now leading a large percentage of the offensives in Baghdad now, with the U.S. being used as support and air cover. That's usually a training tactic used when its time to hand over the duties to others. I think we'll do this through the end of the year, then slowly start to pull out. By Fall 2007 we'll be less than 50,000 total in Iraq. The Iraqis will be ready by then. Just in time for the next political season.........

Porgie -

You mean your money is still onshore now?
Bad move, go take a vacation to the Bahamas this year.............and go bank shopping while you're there.

Bret....no, my money is not offshore. The joys of having your money in a retirement plan here in New York...not going to go into here, but because the plan we belong to was negotiated with the city of New York, we cannot even move it to a different company, but HAVE TO LEAVE IT IN the TIAA/CREF funds until we are 59. So, for another eight years, we are AT THEIR MERCY which bites.

Porgie -

Once you take that money out of the country, it becomes yours..........all yours. If you invest it in something in a foreign country and it makes you money, you pay low low taxes on those windfalls..............if you decide to report that income.

Bret...if we could access that money right now, we'd be retired early....instead, it's tied up till we are just shy of 60.

Phillip....No, the giovernment is NOT paying me to be on the internet. But, my retirement package happens to be vested through them. I would NEVER work for the government, my stint in the Navy was enough for me.

middle class wages have remained STAGNANT for 35 years now

Yet another stupid statement from the ignorant

Average wages are up 4.0% in the past year, the fastest pace in five years.

Click here for source

Nice try jJack.........................see, you try to use the term AVERAGE WAGES. Wages are UP on the top, and UP on the bottom, and DOWN IN THE MIDDLE, but the over all AVERAGE WAGES ARE UP...you are such a freaking liar and desparate man it is sad.

Poor sad case porgie, can't even accept simple facts. What a loser.

Say whatever you want jJack....I've opted to cease discussing political issues with a rock.

So you won't be talking to yourself in public anymore ???