Stolen, AMERICAN JOBS

Ok, dumb question here but how does someone steal a job? Its not something they can sneak into your house and take, or snatch out of your pocket. A job is an aggreement to perfom some service for a fee or wage. It is up to the individual to to negotiate that wage with their employer. An employer will always attempt to maximize profits by giving the lowest wage possible while maintaining productivity. A worker will always attempt to seek the highest wage possible while remaining competitve in the labor market (to insure they remain employed).

Problem is that there is more labor attempting to come into the market. The economic law of supply and demand indicates that when there is a surplus of a commodity that prices for that commodity will fall. The only solution for labor that is unable to remain competitive is to make themselves more competitive by either lowering their wage, increasing their productivity, or increasing their barganing power (i.e. unions).

Jobs are not an entitlement, this is not a socialist nation.

Leonel....how does one STEAL A JOB. SIMPLE, and I will explain it to your addled pea sized little brain, as exhibited by your vote of one on this article, and your question.

Now, I will preface this by stating, that some employers deliberately hire illegal employees to maximize their profits...in short, they violate our laws. That being said, illegals are BUYING PHONEY ID which they use to secure employeement. These ID's in many cases are not easily identifiable as FAKE ID's or stolen ID's. Now, this person goes into an employer, and negotiates a contract for employment, secures said employment with said FAKE ID. Said person as and illegal did not have the right to negotiate that contract for employment, was/is breaking our laws. WALA, STOLEN JOB......

Nelson, I think Porgie means Voila. I see this all the time, and it irritates the hell out of me. People should not toss around words that they can't spell, but of course if they aren't aware that they can't spell them, I suppose they have no reason to check except for kicks and giggles.

voi‧là  /vwɑˈlɑ; Fr. vwaˈla/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[vwah-lah; Fr. vwa-la] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation

–interjection (used to express success or satisfaction). Voilà, my new winter outfit!

Also, voi‧la.


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[Origin: 1825–35; < F, equiv. to voi see! (2nd pers. sing. impv. of voir to see) + la there]
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.0.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.

GEt a clue...the employer in this scenerio is NOT THE THIEF, the illegal is. Fake ID, wrongful negotiation for a job he is NOT ALLOWED BY LAW TO HOLD.

Debbie....the IRS's job is to collect money, not to check the status of the person who is applying for the number. One of the joys/pitfalls of compartmentalization, is that they often the left hand does not know what the right is doing.

A perfect example....until the Department of Homeland Security starting pushing forward regulations that will allow them to take over control of the non-matching numbers letters from the Social Security Department, that information NEVER made it's way to ICE. That governmental oversight is now being changed, and employers nationwide as a result of that are NOW PAYING ATTENTION when they recieved one of those letters. IF the new regulation takes effect, companies will only have 14 days to start action, and a total of 60 days to resolve the issue completely before they could become culpable.

Great question Debbie! The government is controlled by the wealthy. They are insuring the profitability of the wealthy and business interests which fund political campaigns.
We would never be in the fix we are in now if our government did not explicitly refuse to enforce our current laws and promote the interests of the wealthy at the expense of the rest of our citizens.
Illegal aliens are not in hiding and exceedingly easy to find. The only reason we have so many now is that their sponsers have prevented the government from rousting them in the normal course of business on a daily basis.

Yep alan....but if you ask some on the boards who is responsible, they will tell you the "illegal aliens and ONLY the illegal aliens!"

They will tell you the United States, owes "no answers, nothing to the illegals" who assisted this nation throughout an enormous growth period.

Most of us, although we have different views of the solution(s), feel that our country at least owes the people of this country an honest and up-front immigration policy.

nothing is owed to anyone. eccept the right to be treated and to treat others with respect. this would includ respecting the laws of the country you reside in. if you are in that country without being invited and you are braking laws, then you are insulting your host. your host has every right to through you out for your presence along is an insult to all law abiding americans. driving down wages by law breakers is in itself theivery. illigals have now right to any job. it is so said that some americans would sell out their neighbors. i regard them less than i do the illigals.

Let's see...give illegals six months to arrange their affairs and leave, or face arrest and imprisonment. Close and secure our border with Mexico, and if you enter America Illegally, you are arrested and imprisoned. No citizenship to Anchor Babies. If you are found hiring, renting to, or assisting and illegal, you will be arrested and imprisoned......Seems pretty UPFRONT to me.

12,000,000 illigal immigriants x fuel, electric,school,hospital care, schools,courts, police,jails,public aid,crime,press 1 to continue in english,cheap labor,traffic,uninsured motorist,rape,robbery,break and entering,gangs, drugs,auto theifs,babies plus more. who? who? who? pays for it?????? if you think i'm wrong leave your door unlocked!!!!!!

When I was a political science major, I did an indipendent study paper on illegal immigration (about 4 years ago). This was well before this whole debate, but I got a chance to look at stacks and stacks of statistics, I read the IRCA of 1986, and I read accounts of American workers being systematically pushed out of their jobs by employers continually lowering the wages that they paid over a number of years. I can tell you that after reading those workers acoounts, I have no doubt that employers use illegal immigrants to boost their profits. They pay them lower wages, don't have to provide healthcare, and don't even have to have decent workplace standards for them. Now even though I knew all of this info, I was never really anti-illegal immigration. I thought it was wrong, but I never advocated deporting illegals or anything like that. Where I did get upset was when I saw people who really don't belong here marching, protesting and DEMANDING rights and priviliges that they are not entitled to. There is no other country in the world where that could possibly happen. Do you think I could go to Mexico and start demanding things from their government? They would laugh at me and probably throw me in jail. If they are gonna be here illegally because they need jobs and whatnot, fine, but don't start acting like you own this country or can demand things from us.

Robert. That's really not nice. We don't need 12 million illegal to do all of those you mentioned. Us as American can already do that very well.

There may actually be a small percentage of the 12 million people who actually did stuffs you mentioned. Just by basic mathematic calculation, the possibility of some people doing stupid thing if you counted even by percentage may sounds pretty horrible. Let us use 1% as a fake number. 1% of 12 million is 120,000 people. The chance is if 120,000 people doing bad stuffs per your earlier post would be totally catastrophic to this country. That's just illegal immigrant. What about some of the American?

Stupid people do stupid things. It doesn't matter whether you are illegal or not. You can't lump all of the illegal immigrants as the one only biggest problem in this country. Our government incompetency in doing their job is the biggest problem in this country. Lets not "Wag the Dog". ;-)

Jackie,

No offense intended, but you seem to be " on the fence " as far as illegal immigration goes.

this is not about race first of all,this is about an invasion of people, who broke are laws to come here and,we have a bunch of low life people who will save a buck and
hire an illegal and make our wages go down we have tens of millions of kids who grow up in single parent homes because the illegals and employers got are living wages way to low, money is 98% of the reason why couples breakup, this is the worst problem and i hope we go to war with mexico and make the low life goverment get their country togather, ben lauden has not even come close to hurten this country like south of the border, are real war is with illegals, and drugs they are going to be the end of the u.s.a. we dont have room her for the world please people wake up we need to get all the illegals out of this country

The fastest way to start clearing the illegal problem up, is to start fining the companies that hire these people. It is too easy today to verify paperwork! Give these companies some serious fines to face, cut down on the jobs available, is a great start. Then, will someone in Washington wake up and change the law, so that babies born to illegals are not automatic citizens! Helloooooooooooo! That is their free ticket to all our welfare services! If someone immigrates here legally, of course their children should be Americans at birth! If the parents are here illegally, the children are here illegally!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We also need to build a fence along the border like a prison fence, electrofied, with razor wire, patrolled by the national guard. I was more sympathic towards the illegal aliens until they had the gall to protest against us, they are guests in my country, and uninvited at that. Then they were flying the Mexican flag, that was a direct insult to the Red, White and Blue. You dont do that that here, especially during wartime!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

randy guess you need a little education. lets start wiyh your simple math. take 12 million of the 300 plus in this country. now lets look at the prison population. they are over 30% of that poulation in this country. seems like vicinte fox is not sending us the cream of the crop from mexico. and if you really want to find out who is here. why don't you and your family take a stroll through the gang infested neighborhoods of this soon to be, once a great nation. sometimes the ignorance makes me ill!!!

not so fast with the bigot label. how are peaple suposed to act when the powers at be allow mexicans etc. to lower our way of life that we americans have worked very hard to acheive. these peaple don't even ask they come in and take as if they are intitled. they are not and should be humble and ask for help not take what is not theirs. i thank them for demonstrating. they have awakened many who were asleep at the wheel. and i hope we send them back simply buy removing the hand out. who out their gives their life savings to the next pan handler they see.

Debbie, stop making false generalities that are not true. I call illegals vermin, vile filth, and a whole host of other names that I routinely associate CRIMINALS with, which is what they are. Curious, what kind of labels to you use for rapist, murderers, child molestors. What would you call someone who STOLE YOUR ID, RUINED YOUR CREDIT?

As my nieces who are HALF Spanish if I hate Latin people. I actually donate money to charities that benefit Latino's who are here LEGALLY! I'll give you another surprise. I used to work with pre-school children of Latino heritage....I loved those children, they were here LEGALLY.

YOU may not like it, but I see these people as criminals because they ARE criminals, and nothing you can do will change that fact. I don't believe in coddling criminals, am more of one for TOUGH LOVE...send them home, force them to face their own issues and do something about it.

You want my support for something...I'd support our State Department interceding in Darfur, and inviting a couple of million of those people who are truly suffering to come to America, and would embrace them in a heart beat. You want to talk sufferage, that is sufferage. It is sufferage beyond their control, they are being exterminated as the world sits idly by. What Mexico is going through is NOT SUFFERAGE, it's their own stubborn stupidity, and as long as America acts as its release valve, as long as they can send their poor and impoverished here, they'll NEVER address their own ills.

And Porgie I know you're bitter about this issue. I probably would be to if i lost my "Bottom of the Rung" crap job to a cheaper, more reliable worker. It would sure hurt my prejudices of superiority.

Rami:

I did not LOSE my job to and illegal, not about to lose my job to an illegal. I own my company. What has happened, is that jobs I used to routinely get don't fall my way any more, because I WILL NOT HIRE illegal aliens. That in turn has seen me let a couple of LEGAL AMERICANS go, because there was not enough work on the boards to keep them working. THAT MAKES ME ANGRY.

I have lost $50,000 of the value of my home because of illegals, that MAKES ME ANGRY. My school taxes have gone up 17 percent because of the over crowding of our schools caused by illegals, THAT MAKES ME ANGRY.

It's been a long time since I've known poverty, I still enjoy my Single Malt Scotch. Does that mean I should turn my back on friends and Americans who are less fortunate than I, people I know in that bottom 20 percentile portion of the ladder?

Dennis Miller got it right. One illegal alien in, one pro-immigration liberal out. What's fair is fair.

Hey Porgie, My Daddy is a minute man! Yeeee Haa! He saw Chinese army men coming over the boarder but the media supressed it! He's teaching me to fight (see my pictures) so we can save our heritage! You are white aren't you?

Mellisa:

I cannot speak for others, but I can speak for myself. This is not a white, verse brown issue, it's about lawful verse unlawful entry into America. I have no problems with anyone of any race, creed, or sexual orientation entering America if it is done LEGALLY.

Your asking me if I am white if offensive. Do my views and opinions take on less merit if I am not? Am I less valued, or somehow devalued if I am not? I don't like illegals, they are criminals, but my distaste for them is not about color, it's about people who are showing a total disrespect of our laws, and our people.

I have seen a lot of people lose their job to illegals but not because they are not hard working and dependable but because employers want cheap workers with no complaining about any benefits at all. They can work them 12 hour days without paying them any over time. If the employees complain about anything, they can replace them with more illegals. I don't believe the crap about our economy falling if we lose all the cheap labor. Years ago, before we were flooded with illegals, we managed just fine. I don't remember employers not being able to find workers. I have seen construction workers pushed out of their trade completely because of illegals working so cheap and not complaining about working 12 hour days without over time.

i have arguements that the illegals dont pay social security but can draw it. i have also, been told that they send alot of their money home, then they go back and retire to mexico rich. california wants to give illegals aide to go to college here in the us. if the arguement is that here in the us some employers cannot find americans who will do the work....why not have the people who are bleeding the welfare system work for their paycheck and put them to work in the orchards. we can then send all the illegals back, if they want to enter into the usa they can do it the proper way and wait their turn.

Vickey, the ones that pay taxes do pay social security, and as far as I know, they can not draw it, if they are illegal. As far as deporting the illegals, it is done on a regular basis, they immediately return to the U.S. after they are sent across the border. See 9 boxes up for my other thoughts on this.

judie you should be made aware that illegals can collect s.s.checks. they can even move back to mexico and have their checks sent there. also there is alot of support in congress to insure that they have this as a right. this is insane they come here illegally and get a s.s. number and retire in mexico with the help of our government.

America is no longer the leader of the world. Our country is well on the way to becoming another third world country, thanks to corporare America, and the idiots we now have in Washington. The unnecessary war, a war for profit only, illegal immigrants are two of the main reasons for the decline of out country.
It makes me angry to see these illegal immigrants parading in our streets and demanding citizen rights; they have no rights. Now some may call this prejudice, but this is patriotism and a concern for my fellow citizens. How can anyone compare the demonstrating of illegal immigrants with the demonstrations of the African Americans? African American are naturalized citizens of this country and their rights should have been automatic; they should not of had to demonstrate or fight for the.
I am a retired WW II vet, and could I have known that this country would have turned out the way it has, I would have just as soon left it to Hitler. I can see not much difference between Hitler and George W(wacko) Bush, the murdering monkey.

Strong words Robert.

Dang Robert! You had me right along with you, until you compared Pres. Bush to Hitler!

Funny....I actually tended to agree with his comparison of Bush to Hitler.

Robert,
No matter if I agree with you or not, may I say Thank you for your service to this country.

Porgie T:
I agree with you totally. As for a reason for our pourous border, google North American Union and see what V. Fox, GW, and Canada have in store for us by 2010.
Robert, re GW as Hitler. GW doesn't have Hitler's oratorical skill and perhaps even his autonomy...and than you for your service.

Richard....could share VOLUMES on the North American Union....if you want to know what I know, let me know.

Porgie -
In words of Yoda, you surprise me not. I hope that others that will share this thread have the intellectual courage to do the google on the North American Union. They may even have their curisosity piqued by news about the NAFTA super highway from Nuevo Laredo to Canada by way of a planned Mexican customs house in Kansas City.
Check out NAFTA corridor on Yahoo as well

Richard.....the plan is to make the Los Angeles Port Obsolete, the new DEEP WATER container port is already being built in Southern Mexico. The plan is that Mexican Truck Drivers can load up containers from China and other parts of the world, jump on the Super Highway, and run from Southern Mexico to either Kansas City, or clear into Canada without EVER GOING THROUGH US CUSTOMS....further, if you study the full program, they are also in the process of trying to develop and East/West Corridor to this system, so that almost the entire United States trucking industry would be OUT OF BUSINESS.

You're right, what an insult to Hitler I made.

Porgie, I didn't know about the abandonment of the LA port. What ever will Atzlan do?
My sources for this outrage are The Idaho Observer, Newsmax.com, Worldnetdaily.com, and radio talk show, Coasttocoastam.com.
BTW, do you think that anyone else on this web site will really get involved or even care about our coming loss of sovreignty? - and call their senators?

Richard.....do a internet search for NASCO....which I think stands for the North American Super Corridor Organization....also, do a search for the Free Trade Aliance of San Antonio.....it will open your eyes.

Porgie, the direct link is nascocorridor.com. They give a disclamer that they are not a government agency, but a further reading of their posting reveals government funding.

If you're not Porgie and reading this thread, get invovled!! Get further informed!!Keep this thread alive!!

Richard....I've formed up a Gather Group for those wishing to oppose this, so am hoping to see that group grow tremendously, and it will allow us to keep everything in one nice neat place.

Let me know how I can participate.

Richard, just write up articles on the subject, and post them to my group so folks can talk about it.